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Does Vic Vance bug you?

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Shmiqq
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#1

Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:11 PM

There's one thing I couldn't get my head around, and ik it's just a game, but R*'s attempt to recreate Vic Vance was pretty badly done. 2 years before, he was bald, had an American accent, lighter skin, didn't want to touch drugs, and was slightly taller. How is it that 2 years later, he looks COMPLETELY different, has a different accent and is happy about drug deals? Seems pretty half-assed to me. Same with the animations.

Wasn't too bad of a game, but it's a shame that such a game was the last in the 3 era (in release of course).

So did this weird transformation bug you a little? I just like to believe it's Pete, no matter what R* say. Hell, they promised a stimulus package but that didn't come out when it was due, harharhar.
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Coral_City
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#2

Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:21 PM

I think it was more of a continuity error. That and they wanted to go back to a familiar character and settings, so they opted the easy route. 


Shmiqq
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#3

Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

I think it was more of a continuity error. That and they wanted to go back to a familiar character and settings, so they opted the easy route.


Sure but they managed to make Toni similar to how he looked in GTA 3, even made a reference to how he was skinnier. It all seemed a little rushed to me, along with their confirmation of him dying in VC's opening scene.

MMC_BITW
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#4

Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:54 AM

Yeah, that seemed pretty strange to me too. He looked completely different in GTA Vice City.

 

Still doesn't bug me though.


Tycek
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#5

Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:34 AM

Doesn't bug me at all. It's just continuity error. 


Drunken Cowboy
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#6

Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

Sometimes they just get their ideas and inspirations later.

It's pretty cool they made a non-sentient nobody into a full-fledged character with a pretty interesting back-story. Appearance obviously will change, and they usually change it for the better. Look at the continuity changes of Toni Cipriani, Johnny Klebitz, Luis Lopez, and that's just protagonists alone. 

 

The only thing that really weirded me out was the race thing. So, Lance Vance is a smooth-talking, nappy-haired and mustached almost stereotypical 80's black guy, but his brother was originally an accented Dominican? (They're from the DR, right?) But THEN Vic talks with an almost completely straight English accent? Not even like a southern accent or anything. And THEN their mother is white? Despite them being super dark black/Dominican whatever?

 

It was strange, but it was easily ignorable. I just don't see why they couldn't have made Vic black, or originally Lance more Dominican, or their mother black/Dominican.

 

Great game, by the way. Haven't talked about this one in ages.

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Coral_City
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#7

Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:57 PM

 

I think it was more of a continuity error. That and they wanted to go back to a familiar character and settings, so they opted the easy route.


Sure but they managed to make Toni similar to how he looked in GTA 3, even made a reference to how he was skinnier. It all seemed a little rushed to me, along with their confirmation of him dying in VC's opening scene.

 

Toni was a major support character in GTA 3 -- Vic Vance was an afterthought in GTA VC

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G_Masta_Phunk
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#8

Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:15 AM

What? a brother cant grow some hair and get addicted to drugs after he gets kicked out of the army? sheeze

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universetwisters
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#9

Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:36 PM

He kinda bugs me. One minute, he's felling all apologetic about crime and sh*t, and a few minutes later, he'll be mowing down pedestrians with a sports car.

 

They had the same issue with Niko from IV, too.


Tycek
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#10

Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:07 PM

It's caused by the genre of the game and it really depends on you. I wasn't mowing people down with a car or kill innocents just for fun. Sure I have rampage time, but in the story I wasn't acting like that. Would you really like serious limitations of gameplay only to fit it into the story the game's trying to tell? 

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MrPeteyMax
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#11

Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:26 PM

That kinda bugged me too. If he was just fatter and had some scruffy growing hair round the sides, understandable, but his accent makes no sense what soever.


Shmiqq
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#12

Posted 11 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

What? a brother cant grow some hair and get addicted to drugs after he gets kicked out of the army? sheeze


lol'd

Sometimes they just get their ideas and inspirations later.
It's pretty cool they made a non-sentient nobody into a full-fledged character with a pretty interesting back-story. Appearance obviously will change, and they usually change it for the better. Look at the continuity changes of Toni Cipriani, Johnny Klebitz, Luis Lopez, and that's just protagonists alone. 
 
The only thing that really weirded me out was the race thing. So, Lance Vance is a smooth-talking, nappy-haired and mustached almost stereotypical 80's black guy, but his brother was originally an accented Dominican? (They're from the DR, right?) But THEN Vic talks with an almost completely straight English accent? Not even like a southern accent or anything. And THEN their mother is white? Despite them being super dark black/Dominican whatever?
 
It was strange, but it was easily ignorable. I just don't see why they couldn't have made Vic black, or originally Lance more Dominican, or their mother black/Dominican.
 
Great game, by the way. Haven't talked about this one in ages.


You make a good point but they made all those people somewhat similar, Vic just seemed like a poor effort to the end of the 3D era. And I think it was strange how he didn't match his brother either.

Oh well, all in the past now. Never even completed the game.

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#13

Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:29 PM

The problem is Rockstar humanizing the characters and trying to make them into "good guys" when the game is centered around bad stuff. They had the exact same problem with CJ before this game (and Niko was even worse with this problem).

 

The game not only ruined Vic but Lance too by turning him into a f*cking clown and making him so stupid. Lance and Vic had no chemistry whatsoever and the minute Lance came into the picture he ran the entire show.

 

 

VCS was an awesome game but the storyline was incredibly weak compared to it's predecessor, and LCS itself was a big surprise when the story actually was interesting to play through.

 

 

Toni > Vic


latigreblue
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#14

Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:36 AM

Dominican is a nationality not a race.  A person can have dark skin and be half white.  I find it weird that someone is trying to assess the phenotype of a cartoony video game character in a game that everyone knows does not have great graphics.

 

Anyhow, OP, you are not the only person bothered by the change in Vic Vance.  R* always knew how he was going to end and it didn't make sense to have the game end the way it did and out of nowhere the character is this different.  When R* confirmed that it was Vic who died in the beginning of VC, many players refused to accept it and said that it make more sense for it to be the other Vance brother.

 

As soon as Trevor from V was introduced and you-know-who had changed so much and was dealt with, Vic Vance came to mind.  It was like R* was telling all the doubters, yeah idiots, this can happen.


Shmiqq
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#15

Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:20 AM Edited by Shmiqq, 15 November 2013 - 10:22 AM.

The problem is Rockstar humanizing the characters and trying to make them into "good guys" when the game is centered around bad stuff. They had the exact same problem with CJ before this game (and Niko was even worse with this problem).
 
The game not only ruined Vic but Lance too by turning him into a f*cking clown and making him so stupid. Lance and Vic had no chemistry whatsoever and the minute Lance came into the picture he ran the entire show.
 
 
VCS was an awesome game but the storyline was incredibly weak compared to it's predecessor, and LCS itself was a big surprise when the story actually was interesting to play through.
 
 
Toni > Vic

 

Ik what you mean lol, the game would've been pretty boring for me without Lance Vance. I found the ending pretty bad too. Vic Vance wasn't very cool at all, and his job in VC makes no sense, especially seeing how happy he is.

I loved LCS and Toni Cipriani, the game seemed slightly thin with the story but it was similar to III. I like to believe Toni was successful at the end of 3, if ya know what I mean, after xxxxx's demise.

 

Dominican is a nationality not a race.  A person can have dark skin and be half white.  I find it weird that someone is trying to assess the phenotype of a cartoony video game character in a game that everyone knows does not have great graphics.
 
Anyhow, OP, you are not the only person bothered by the change in Vic Vance.  R* always knew how he was going to end and it didn't make sense to have the game end the way it did and out of nowhere the character is this different.  When R* confirmed that it was Vic who died in the beginning of VC, many players refused to accept it and said that it make more sense for it to be the other Vance brother.
 
As soon as Trevor from V was introduced and you-know-who had changed so much and was dealt with, Vic Vance came to mind.  It was like R* was telling all the doubters, yeah idiots, this can happen.

But you-know-who in V was actually recognisable. You could actually tell, aside from the way he acts. That was a bit off.

Vic Vance was a joke, in general. I found the reason was that nobody wanted to play a limping old man, so they redid him. They could've chose anyone else but nope.

Shame it was the last 3D era game, they could've ended it on San Andreas Stories. :(

The Made Man
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#16

Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:22 PM Edited by The Made Man, 15 November 2013 - 02:24 PM.

Yes he did A LOT. The worst GTA protagonist ever in my opinion. He just didn't fit in a GTA game, he was too much of a good guy...It didn't feel right at all. And those are just the FEW reasons why I dislike him a lot. He seemed like R just rushed him in without any prepping what so ever like people stated.


Grievous
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#17

Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:46 PM

Personally I took the act of making Victor Vance an unfortunate product of his environment to be a very deliberate move from Rockstar.

What I mean is this whole 'hero and good guy doesn't fit in a GTA game' approach was deliberate.

 

Many characters in the game mock Victor about his tough act, acting superior and condescending, even if he isn't any much better. The main antagonist Jerry Martinez is pretty direct in this regard, taunting Victor as the "holier than thou killer", and at the end of the game, one of his last lines was precisely this: "You just keep trying to be the good guy while playing a bad man's game. I thought you had potential, turns out you're just a chump."

And Vic had his face down and doesn't respond to the accusation, because he knows Martinez was right in that regard.

 

The subject of 'being a hero' is often repeated in the game in a satirical manner, whether it's from mission titles "To Victor The Spoils" or "From Zero to Hero", from the dialogue such as how Diaz, a drug baron, considers Victor as his hero to which Victor responded negatively to it, and, let's not forget, how protagonist is called 'Victor'.

 

Victor Vance comes to Vice City with good intentions, but in no time he is unconditionally made into the same ridiculous rampaging protagonists as the previous games did. The difference this time is that Victor isn't rewarded for his actions, very much unlike Carl Johnson's fame and glory.

Victor's mother steals from him, his brother uses him, his Aunt is so gullible to believe everything Lance says, and his love interest dies. Not to mention the prospect of a GTA protagonist having a love interest is a rather new concept, which is then subsequently implemented in every other Rockstar titles, and all continuously also ends in dramatic fashion, with no exception.

 

The only folks who seems to cheer and benefit from Victor's actions are the gamblers, gun runners, drug dealers who operates in the city. Phil Collins is perhaps the only character who legitimately benefitted from Victor's assistance, which is part of the reason why the "In the Air Tonight" stadium sequence was such a satisfying moment. Victor also unknowingly orchestrates his future demise; it is Victor who protected Gonzales as he flees the city, years later Gonzales would inform Diaz of the drug deal involving the Vance brothers. Of course Diaz himself didn't knew the Vance brothers were involved, he just wanted to steal from Colonel Cortez, but the irony is there.

 

And speaking of Victor's demise, it was interesting that it ended in such a fashion. Victor refuses to deal into the drugs Lance just procured, fiercely refusing, and for good reasons. The heavy toll of his love interest's death is just the sum that topples off the mountain of problems he had during the course of the game. And yet we as players of Vice City KNOWS that Victor will die as a drug dealer.

Which is why when Victor leaves with Lance in the helicopter, the game shows the close-up of the two final deceased antagonists, a drug lord and a soldier. Victor Vance was both, and such as how Martinez is a corrupt trafficker, Victor was corrupted into becoming what he didn't wished to be. It was an inevitable end for him and, more specifically, for Any character who wished to do 'good' in a GTA or Rockstar universe, It's Impossible.

 

It is impossible to achieve good things while the system makes you do hideous deeds, the point that was made is clear, you can not steal cars and shoot people and hoping that things will go for the better, no matter how much of a sympathetic person you actually are and how friendly you are to friends and families, you just can't expect that crime will pay. It explains that one can not expect to play a GTA or Rockstar title as an unconditional 'good person', stating that it is a false expectation.

 

It was a bold effort from Rockstar to make such a protagonist when they've been doing pretty well thus far in making shamelessly unrepentant criminals as their leading stars. To the point that indeed, it did created confusion amongst critics and fans as to why such design decision was taken, as if 'anyone' sought after this kind of philosophy in the first place. And yet Rockstar didn't let go of this philosophy.

 

The 'Victor' effect is further utilized and explored in subsequent Rockstar titles, to various degrees of success. For example with Niko Bellic they wanted to emphasize the meaningless aspect of revenge through cold blooded violence, and in Red Dead Redemption this whole 'you are deluding yourself in thinking you're an innocent hero' speech is used by the game's antagonist a good number of times towards the end.

 

Luis Fernando Lopez from Ballad of Gay Tony however was the only of the recent GTA protagonists to not have such problem with his conscience, and the game's cast pretty much congratulates him on the various killings he partakes in. I took That as a rather worrying sign of lunacy.

Maybe they wanted to go after the 'Carl Johnson saves the day' angle, but I don't know, Carl at least truly had a sympathetic side to his journey where it felt at times as if the alternatives did not exist for him. Well, at least the 'illusion' of the no-alternatives situation was made better.

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Darth_Starkiller
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#18

Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:03 AM

VCS could have had a great storyline, if R hadn't kinda rushed the game, made it short and worked a bit on some plot holes (like he being rich as hell with the empire system, yet only getting the money for Pete at the final mission - must be a very expensive treatment for his sickness if not even millions of dollars can pay it).

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Grievous
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#19

Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

That's an issue with gameplay and story segregation. All GTAs are guilty of this, it only became noticeable starting with San Andreas, then well apparent with Vice City Stories, and then becoming awkward with GTA IV with Roman's gambling issues never affecting Niko nor the player in any way other than through scripted scenarios.

 

GTA V had made a great deal of efforts in improving the money situation by making it a rare commodity, making you feel vulnerable and pushes you into pursuing the story and performing and treating the heists not just as something of a memorable set of missions but as an desperate 'need' to make money. And it's an illusion that is mostly well put, until you realize that, even when you start making millions, there's nothing much to do with it.

Properties are the biggest money spender the game has to offer, but why bother in the first place? they don't unlock a string of story missions like Vice City did, they just give you weekly income, and what for? to purchase more properties? it then becomes apparent of a repeated cycle, but early on in the game, where you had nothing but chump change, they kept the illusion and the value of money well.

 

Assuming the player doesn't exploit the trade market with them couple of scripted opportunities.

 

But back with Vice City Stories, Pete's medical expenses is the story's 'excuse' for making Victor into partaking the various criminal activities in the first place.

Victor certainly wasn't making a corruption of himself for his mother or his exploitive brother, and even aunt Enid, as much as she raised him properly, slowly becomes a nagging off-screen character that falsely believe Vic to be the money spender and not his younger brother Lance.

 

Therefor, all that is left is sweet innocent Pete.

Had Pete not been sick, or had he not existed in the first place, Victor would have left Vice as soon as he was kicked out of the army.

 

But then we wouldn't have another GTA to play with.

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Nameless Foot Soldier
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#20

Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:52 AM

He kinda bugs me. One minute, he's felling all apologetic about crime and sh*t, and a few minutes later, he'll be mowing down pedestrians with a sports car.

 

They had the same issue with Niko from IV, too.

Sir, you're moronic. That was not the character! That was you! My Niko never did that. So don't f*cking tell me Niko doesn't fit the story.


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#21

Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:14 AM

 

Luis Fernando Lopez from Ballad of Gay Tony however was the only of the recent GTA protagonists to not have such problem with his conscience, and the game's cast pretty much congratulates him on the various killings he partakes in. I took That as a rather worrying sign of lunacy.

Maybe they wanted to go after the 'Carl Johnson saves the day' angle, but I don't know, Carl at least truly had a sympathetic side to his journey where it felt at times as if the alternatives did not exist for him. Well, at least the 'illusion' of the no-alternatives situation was made better.

We're led to believe that Luis has a happy ending but in all honesty, Tony decides to ditch Luis after the game. He decides to go somewhere safer and calm. His phone contact is removed and he moves from the city. I think it's mostly because of Luis's consideration of killing Tony. Tony himself was the only nice guy to Luis in the entire story, the only one who respected him. He was a father figure to Luis. Than he leaves Luis all by himself with the other folks, the greedy crazy assholes of the city. Sure Luis has the money and the club, but where does that get him? I'm thinking a bad route and I strongly believe there may be a future hint of his life gone to hell somewhere in a DLC for GTA V.


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#22

Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

I sure hope the story Does follow that path, really.

But, to be honest, at the moment it doesn't really fell as such. The fact that Tony can't be contacted after the events of the game feels more like a lack of care within the game design itself than an actual narrative choice.

 

Supposedly Tony Prince , Yusuf and Mori were all planned to act as hang-out friends for Luis. Considering the whole 'dlc' design and time constraints, one could argue that it was simply removed from the final product. Nevertheless even within the actual content of the game the Ballad feels relatively poor and shallow. Missing at times even basic elements that gave that additional layer in the narrative that Lost and Damned had in comparison.

Even if Tony was not a hang-out friend, he wasn't even there to comment and discuss with Luis through phone calls. Only once or twice in the whole game did calling Tony yield to additional dialogues. And as a whole, the game was lacking in phone conversations outside of scripted story sequences.

 

So even if the completion of Ballad led to this 'all alone' feel to it, it is more comparable to older GTA games where upon the completion of story missions no additional narrative content could be found, than with GTA IV and Lost and Damned where a couple of additional phone conversations, emails, and news articles, seals the defining narrative design that the protagonist finds himself to be 'alone in the city'.

 

To put it in another way, it's not like Tony Prince openly said to Luis "i'm leaving", nor is Luis looking about for Tony and wondering "well where did he go".

Tony Prince just disappears from the game.

 

I hope it is part of the intentional narrative design, as I felt Ballad was sorely lacking on dramatic motivation, but at the moment, it feels more like a wishful interpretation. 

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drunkenMUNKEY78
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#23

Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:27 AM Edited by drunkenMUNKEY78, 29 November 2013 - 12:34 AM.

It annoys my that R* said that was Vic in Vice city, i guess its just a stupid oversight, The main thing that bugs me is his voice actors acting job lol 


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#24

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:18 AM

Much of Victor's life prior to the events of Vice City Stories is unknown. Victor's father came from the Dominican Republic, and worked as a soldier, while Victor's mother, Janet Vance, was a white woman who showed little care or interest in Vic and his siblings.


TheUnholy
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#25

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:24 AM Edited by MarijuanaMonkey, 02 December 2013 - 11:27 AM.

It doesn't bug me but you guys are right, Vic had slightly changed in two years. I've seen this question a lot before and maybe it's kind of a failure of Rockstar. However, Vic is my third favourite protagonist (after Niko and Claude), his characteristic in VCS surely affected me for good. But you guys are right that it bugs people potentially because it kinda doesn't make sense that while Vic is a total douche that loves money and enjoys dealing drugs in VC, in VCS, he is like an angel without wings, too good for being a holy killer and a legend drug dealer. It kinda confused GTA fans at all. I consider two reasons for this problem; the first one is surely contiunity confusion (you know VCS is released after VC) and the other is Rockstar's tendency to make "white" character (sure all GTA protagonists are gray but they're more close to be white, than to be black). Until GTA V, R* had that tendency but in GTA V, we have two more darky protagonists; Trevor and Michael: Trevor is a redneck sociopath who does and deals meth and Michael is a character that is stuck between dignity and improbity, this makes him kinda antipathic. Actually but you guys are right, I dunno but once upon a time I wanted Vic as a criminal without dignity, who enjoys dealing drugs, killing people etc. In this way, he surely wouldn't be one of my favourite protags but he would be maybe one of the most interesting protagonists of GTA series, making VCS a GTA game with high prestige. However, I'm happy with Victor in VCS.

 

This confusion is made on some other characters, though. For example, Johnny in IV seemed like a cunning, foxy biker who makes ripping his lifestyle. But in TLAD, Johnny is showed as a guy with dignity in general, loyal to his brothers but he rips off who deserves it, in his opinion (for example, Johnny considers Ray Boccino as a one sneaky asshole, so he found it right to rip him off) but I guess R* managed to struct Johnny's exact characteristic with TLAD and made a perfect connection between these two games.

 

The contiunity confusion sometimes caused some bugs for R*, but for GTA fans actually. However, I see R* has started to get over this problem and maybe in the future, they will end them for all.


matajuegos01
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#26

Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:06 PM

Yeah, I thought it was Pete the one who died in 1986, but after rockstar confirmed that it was Vic I was like :O you gotta be kidding me, he doesn't look like him, but meh, I love Vic anyways


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#27

Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

It's simply because they had no plan of VCS with Vic as the main hero and back then they characterized Vic as someone hunched and looks slow, sick etc., which is too far from his VCS character story. Besides, if VC's Vic had the characteristic of VCS' Vic, he would be the one piloting and Lance does the deal.

 

Although Tony in LCS was looking similar to his III looks, it just doesn't make sense at all when after he suddenly sit back at the restaurant, became really fat and grown cracking voice, does petty mafia crap bringing baseball bat, while he was the badassest Leone mafia in the town 3 years ago. If the III's Tony were LCS' Tony, I think he would have had terrorized Claude and the Yakuza in Staunton after Salvatore is assassinated.

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Zee
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#28

Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:02 PM

In my own mind, I like to imagine that Vic, knowing he was dealing with Forellis after having screwed them over in 1984, decided to use a fake accent/character so they wouldn't recognize him. It's kind of a stretch, but it works for me.

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#29

Posted 19 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

In my own mind, I like to imagine that Vic, knowing he was dealing with Forellis after having screwed them over in 1984, decided to use a fake accent/character so they wouldn't recognize him. It's kind of a stretch, but it works for me.

Just like u faked a british accent?

 

Just joking, haha!!!





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