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Active shooter currently at NJ shopping mall in body armor

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Irviding
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#1

Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:25 AM

 
 
 
 
man with body armor, rifle, at least 7 shots fired
tons of cops on scene
shooting started aprox. 9:20pm
 
 
 
 
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lil weasel
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#2

Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:51 AM

Obama's crew is really pushing for the National  Gun Ban. Second in one day?


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#3

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:51 AM

Funny how it's always the pro-gun people who are the first to bring up these gun ban conspiracy theories. Anyway, I hope no one is or is going to get hurt in this incident.


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#4

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:24 AM

A gun ban would make little difference here, this guy has body armor as well so I'm going to guess he's planned this out relatively thoroughly.

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#5

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:48 AM Edited by Shyabang Shyabang, 05 November 2013 - 06:49 AM.

Nearly every American will feel this sort of incident hit home at the rate this is happening all over the U. S.

I used to live only 45 minutes away from the mall where the shooting happened. I went to another mall called Riverside Square Mall more often because my mother preferred to shop at a closer location. Still, I went to the one where the shooting is happening enough times to remember that mall clearly.


Finn 7 five 11
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#6

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:01 AM

Nearly every American will feel this sort of incident hit home at the rate this is happening all over the U. S.

I used to live only 45 minutes away from the mall where the shooting happened. I went to another mall called Riverside Square Mall more often because my mother preferred to shop at a closer location. Still, I went to the one where the shooting is happening enough times to remember that mall clearly.

I once drove on a road that had a car accident on it, pretty crazy huh?

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sivispacem
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#7

Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:03 AM

Obama's crew is really pushing for the National  Gun Ban. Second in one day?

 

Funny how every armed citizen who kills a criminal is a triumph of justice brought about by unrestricted access to firearms, yet every use of them against the citizenry by criminals is a plot orchestrated by the government for their outlawing according to you, isn't it?


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#8

Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:21 AM

It's because they've assaulted our precious fluids, sivi.

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#9

Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:11 AM

Mmmmm, fluids.

lil weasel
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#10

Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

Doesn't need to be a Governmental paid for conspiracy. Just an opportunity to show how defenseless the public is without the Government Authority presence. So, disarming the general public would be a good idea. 

Look at how safe Australia is.

The people of the U.S. of A certainly don't need a Syria/Libya/Iran/Iraq/Hungary happening in the United States. The U.S. doesn't need non-professional culling/hunting/fishing either.

Our Presidents and their followers never commit  crimes that couldn't be handled by other Authorities. The people are safe from harm if they always obey the orders of the Police without comment. The citizens will always have their day in court (if they survive the search).

I'm sure that trading in the firearms for straight razors will be a much more favorable society.


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#11

Posted 05 November 2013 - 02:17 PM

Nice job of totally missing my point.

I don't really know what the rest of your post is supposed to mean because it's totally incomprehensible. I assume it's some kind of attempt at irony which falls pretty flat given that it's based entirely on utter nonsense, untested hypotheses and fallacious reasoning. But I'd expect nothing less given the subject and your very public views on it. Rather than merrily skipping around the issue why don't you just finally bite the bullet and admit you subscribe to the school of thought which can effectively be summarised "guns are good, governments are evil, the government wants your guns so it can enslave you" so we can just pigeon-hole you with all the other far right militia conspiracy theorists and dismiss anything you say on the subject.

Look at how safe Australia is? What, you mean safer than the US?

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#12

Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:54 PM

Can we just admit that this is basically a crisis? There's a thread about a shooting in the US every week. I don't know how people can resist reform when they are constantly bombarded with news stories about the effects of the current policy. 

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#13

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

Can we just admit that this is basically a crisis? There's a thread about a shooting in the US every week. I don't know how people can resist reform when they are constantly bombarded with news stories about the effects of the current policy. 

You are right, it is just a total joke at this point. This is the only country where these stories pop up constantly and we (Americans) still deny that there is an issue.


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#14

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

Can we just admit that this is basically a crisis? There's a thread about a shooting in the US every week. I don't know how people can resist reform when they are constantly bombarded with news stories about the effects of the current policy. 

 

I wouldn't call it a crisis. Gun homicides have been down every year in the United States since 1993 (our peak). We may have slightly more homicides this year than last, but it's not a crisis by any means when compared to previous years.


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#15

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

 

Can we just admit that this is basically a crisis? There's a thread about a shooting in the US every week. I don't know how people can resist reform when they are constantly bombarded with news stories about the effects of the current policy. 

 

I wouldn't call it a crisis. Gun homicides have been down every year in the United States since 1993 (our peak). We may have slightly more homicides this year than last, but it's not a crisis by any means when compared to previous years.

 

You need to make a distinction between criminal conflicts and random psychos shooting places up.


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#16

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:20 PM

 

 

Can we just admit that this is basically a crisis? There's a thread about a shooting in the US every week. I don't know how people can resist reform when they are constantly bombarded with news stories about the effects of the current policy. 

 

I wouldn't call it a crisis. Gun homicides have been down every year in the United States since 1993 (our peak). We may have slightly more homicides this year than last, but it's not a crisis by any means when compared to previous years.

 

You need to make a distinction between criminal conflicts and random psychos shooting places up.

 

What's the difference between me shooting 2/3 guys in a store and you shooting a cashier who wouldn't get you money fast enough? We're both killing innocent people,

 

Large shootings, i.e. Sandy Hook/Aurora are a big deal, definitely, just due to the sheer amount of casualties, but those aren't happening all across the United States every day. If they were, that would be a crisis.


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#17

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:24 PM

Totally right in regard to homicides, but incidents like this really seem to have accelerated in the last 12 months and have a quite particular pattern. Mass shootings taking place in public places with assailants armed with semi-automatic, military pattern centrefire rifles and carbines. I'm intrigued as to whether there has been as dramatic a rise in incidents following this pattern over the last 12 months as reports seem to imply.

Eris
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#18

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

 What's happening now is definatly a crisis, but it's a mental health crisis rather than a gun issue.


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#19

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

This is why England is the best country in the world. 


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#20

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:28 PM

This is why England is the best country in the world. 

That was nice for a giggle m8.


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#21

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:32 PM Edited by Vlynor, 05 November 2013 - 05:34 PM.

Totally right in regard to homicides, but incidents like this really seem to have accelerated in the last 12 months and have a quite particular pattern. Mass shootings taking place in public places with assailants armed with semi-automatic, military pattern centrefire rifles and carbines. I'm intrigued as to whether there has been as dramatic a rise in incidents following this pattern over the last 12 months as reports seem to imply.

From 1982-2012, most mass shootings have been caused by handguns. In fact, most shootings are committed with handguns, not 'assault' weapons. I don't know about 2013, though, so these are basically irrelevant.


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#22

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:46 PM

 What's happening now is definatly a crisis, but it's a mental health crisis rather than a gun issue.

But if there is a significant mental health crisis within the US is it right that insane, and potentially dangerous individuals have easy access to deadly weapons? Weapons which are far more powerful and easy to use on a greater number of people than any blunt or bladed object they may find.


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#23

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:50 PM

 

 What's happening now is definatly a crisis, but it's a mental health crisis rather than a gun issue.

But if there is a significant mental health crisis within the US is it right that insane, and potentially dangerous individuals have easy access to deadly weapons? Weapons which are far more powerful and easy to use on a greater number of people than any blunt or bladed object they may find.

 

 

They do, but a lot of mass shootings aren't committed with guns purchased by the perpetrator. Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter, used his mother's rifle, while this guy, the New Jersey mall shooter, used his brother's.


sivispacem
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#24

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:51 PM


Totally right in regard to homicides, but incidents like this really seem to have accelerated in the last 12 months and have a quite particular pattern. Mass shootings taking place in public places with assailants armed with semi-automatic, military pattern centrefire rifles and carbines. I'm intrigued as to whether there has been as dramatic a rise in incidents following this pattern over the last 12 months as reports seem to imply.

From 1982-2012, most mass shootings have been caused by handguns. In fact, most shootings are committed with handguns, not 'assault' weapons. I don't know about 2013, though, so these are basically irrelevant.

I know, which totally stands to reason. I'm not claiming that we're seeing a majority of rifle shootings, but an increase in proportion.

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#25

Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:51 PM

 

 What's happening now is definatly a crisis, but it's a mental health crisis rather than a gun issue.

But if there is a significant mental health crisis within the US is it right that insane, and potentially dangerous individuals have easy access to deadly weapons? Weapons which are far more powerful and easy to use on a greater number of people than any blunt or bladed object they may find.

 

There is greater access to guns in the US than the rest of the world, but a gun ban doesn't solve the issue. There is a mental health crisis in the US right now, and guns are the strawman that keeps distracting us from the real issue.


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#26

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:30 PM Edited by sivispacem, 05 November 2013 - 06:40 PM.

I think to ignore the US firearm culture entirely is extremely disingenuous. Vlynor referred to people borrowing firearms from others, for instance, which is basically unheard of outside the criminal world anywhere else.

Only in the US is it considered socially acceptable to treat firearms the same way you would DVDs. Only in the US is lending or otherwise providing access to firearms to friends and family considered a social norm rather than a dangerous oversight. Only in the US are firearm owners actively encouraged to ignore common wisdom in regard to safe storage of weapons and ammunition under the false pretense that a loaded, chambered handgun on the bedside table is more of a threat to an intruder than it is a family member.

What's the deal with the stigma against gun safes and secure storage anyway? You're not living in Mogadishu, the probability of requiring a firearm to fight off a home invading assailant is probably about that of getting killed by lightning. The vast majority of firearm thefts, shootings involving borrowed weapons and heat-of-the-moment familicides or spousal killings could be prevented by simply following the same basic safety routines as basically everyone else in the developed world- keep guns separate from ammunition, unloaded, in a locked and wall secured safe.

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#27

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:42 PM

I've never seen a single shred of evidence that mental health in the US is particularly worse than other comparable nations. Oh so it's just crazy people, noting to do with guns? Then why are they using guns instead of say, starting fires? Why aren't these same things happening in Canada and Australia?


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#28

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

Only in the US is it considered socially acceptable to treat firearms the same way you would DVDs. Only in the US is lending or otherwise providing access to firearms to friends and family considered a social norm rather than a dangerous oversight.

 

I don't think lending firearms is really a problem, I've borrowed my father's .22 rifle when I've went to the range. It's more the securing of them like you address in your next point:

 

 

What's the deal with the stigma against gun safes and secure storage anyway? You're not living in Mogadishu, the probability of requiring a firearm to fight off a home invading assailant is probably about that of getting killed by lightning. The vast majority of firearm thefts, shootings involving borrowed weapons and heat-of-the-moment familicides or spousal killings could be prevented by simply following the same basic safety routines as basically everyone else in the developed world- keep guns separate from ammunition, unloaded, in a locked and wall secured safe.

 

There are more armed robberies and assaults (with firearms) than firearm murders in the U.S. I believe. I don't know what percent of those are home invasions, however. And I agree, I don't know why it's so difficult to separate ammunition and the firearm itself for some people. Keep it in a nightstand, at least, with the loaded magazine next to the handgun if you're that safety cautious.


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#29

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

I've never seen a single shred of evidence that mental health in the US is particularly worse than other comparable nations. Oh so it's just crazy people, noting to do with guns? Then why are they using guns instead of say, starting fires? Why aren't these same things happening in Canada and Australia?

 

The problem is the ease of access for those who are mentally ill. I hate complaining about subjects without having solutions, but we need to find a way to evaluate the mental health of those who wish to purchase firearms. And like Sivi said, securing firearms is a big deal. If someone breaks into your home when you're not there and it's out in the open, they can steal it, or if you have a mentally ill child (whether you know it or not) they can take the weapon from you without you knowing and shoot up a school, or a mall, or an airport.


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#30

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:02 PM

 

I've never seen a single shred of evidence that mental health in the US is particularly worse than other comparable nations. Oh so it's just crazy people, noting to do with guns? Then why are they using guns instead of say, starting fires? Why aren't these same things happening in Canada and Australia?

 

The problem is the ease of access for those who are mentally ill.

Yes, making it an issue of firearm policy.

 

It's also an issue of firearm culture. Americans are religiously obsessed with guns. It's in the movies, on TV, and the focal point of political dialogue. If this was just about crazy people wanting to kill people, we'd see more explosions, fires and people getting run down with trucks.





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