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Why didn't they use Johnny Klebitz as....

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Niobium
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#121

Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:06 PM Edited by nobum62, 30 December 2013 - 09:19 PM.

repost, just ignore this


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#122

Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

The fact that you're feeling this way and making this post is EXACTLY why Rockstar did it. It creates emotion, shock and intrigue straight away. A death like that is about a thousand times more effective than a over the top boss death. That gritty, violent and real death just made Trevor seem like he's so vicious. I guess some people don't under stand really very intelligent writing, but if it sparks any sort of a reaction then that means it's brilliant writing.

 

writing that pissed off lots of people doesn't not mean good writing, k


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#123

Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

I seriously think Trevor should have killed Ashley first.

Ashley was the only weakness of Johnny and as he couldn't let go of her, she hooked him back on crack (Johnny got clean before) and crack pussified Johnny.

Rage would clean him in instasecond and at least he could go under in a fight. Or call the whole Lost MC on Trevor's ass.

You do sure remember that Trevor slaughtered the unsuspecting Lost in a blitzkrieg tactic and then ambushed the sleeping remains in the night.

Badass? I think not.


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#124

Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

Think R* killed off Johnny for Several Reasons:

  • Trevor Introduction with a Shock
  • Show character tragedy.

I was actually taken a back by Johnny's death. Was my favorite Protag in 4.

What happened to him just seemed like something that he wouldn't do or something he wouldn't get caught up in.

 

Then I thought about it.

 

I think of Johnny's demise very similarly to Victors.

Both wanted out of their respective lives and both of their games ended with them claiming they would...but neither did and it cost them their lives. It's pretty sad because they fought so hard against doing all of these things and then reverted back into it. It's life, it's sad and it fits both of their arcs in some messed up way.

 

Victor stayed in the Drug Business and kept letting Lance get him into stupid situations.

He then gets killed in a drug deal.

 

Johnny knew he had to stay away from Ashley. He didn't. She got him hooked to drugs and back into the life. 

Ashley essentially gets him killed. He was saying this throughout TLatD.

 

These guys just needed to stay away. They both knew it and commented on it while we were playing the games, but they aren't in our control after their game ends.


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#125

Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:51 PM Edited by Charles Phipps, 15 January 2014 - 02:52 PM.

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 

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BLOOD-MOND
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#126

Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 


Great Comment bro.and i definitely agree with the statement esp. The last line.even a guy in my class that have been playing GTA since he was 5 said it was Meth that destroyed him.Trevor just hate meth heads lol :)
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Charles Phipps
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#127

Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:00 PM Edited by Charles Phipps, 15 January 2014 - 03:04 PM.

 

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 


Great Comment bro.and i definitely agree with the statement esp. The last line.even a guy in my class that have been playing GTA since he was 5 said it was Meth that destroyed him.Trevor just hate meth heads lol :)

 

 

Meth in GTA seems to make people a combination of violent psychopaths one minute and weepy emotional basket-cases the next.

Which, interestingly, explains Trevor's personality.

But yeah, Johnny killed like 90% of the Lost MC in TL&TD as well as his best friend in Billy Grey. Almost no one sided with him in the Civil War.

 

That's going to leave a mark on a man's soul.


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#128

Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:05 PM Edited by Gta_V_Fan_101, 15 January 2014 - 03:06 PM.

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 

Watch out, now you're gonna become a target by the Johnny fanboys. They're gonna tell you that what you said "doesn't make sense" or "Johnny never does meth or goes back to Ashley". Trust me, there is no use trying to tell them that the Johnny's death actually made sense.

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Charles Phipps
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#129

Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

 

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 

Watch out, now you're gonna become a target by the Johnny fanboys. They're gonna tell you that what you said "doesn't make sense" or "Johnny never does meth or goes back to Ashley". Trust me, there is no use trying to tell them that the Johnny's death actually made sense.

 

 

Oh, it's a real let down. Johnny, Clay, and Terry going off alone as a trio (or quartet w/ their arms dealer) is a hell of a lot more dignified. It's badass even if it's still a tragedy.

This is not badass. I just think it fits.

 

You might even argue he came to California (Angels of Death territory) to die. He just found Trevor first.

(People who argue the Lost wouldn't be in California confuse me, though, since the AOD are in Liberty City. Why not the reverse?)


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#130

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

Cause The Lost is a smaller ganh. The AOD has chapters all over the world.

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#131

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:25 PM

'The Man' is BS. He's still a corrupt politician ruining lives everyday. Billy lost his mind and the Lost followed. And yes Goldcard, the AoD should have been there.

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#132

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:30 PM


I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 

Watch out, now you're gonna become a target by the Johnny fanboys. They're gonna tell you that what you said "doesn't make sense" or "Johnny never does meth or goes back to Ashley". Trust me, there is no use trying to tell them that the Johnny's death actually made sense.

we say it made no sense because johnny was OCC. look at the ending of TLAD


after the ending of TLAD the player can call angus and johnny will say:

"i'll try to cut my ties with the lost."
"i finally got ashley out of my head. she has that need to f*ck up everything around her"

the player can also call ashley. ashley will ask johnny for forty dollars and johnny will say:
"you can kill yourself on your own ash."

he knows it is to pay off her debts or to buy drugs.

johnny was also an ex-addict and disliked drugs, especially after seeing what it has done to ashley. also, johnny did not foreshadow at all he was gonna do drugs



5 years later, we see johnny as a meth addict still in the lost going "HURR DURR WHY U F*CKING ASHLEY WAAAAAAA"


f*ck you cockstar for making johnny's character inconsistant. F*CK YOU.

i mean, imagine luis saying "OYE, I SHOULD STOP HAVING INTERCOURSE WITH RANDOM GIRLS AT MAISONETTE 'CAUSE PRE-MARITAL SEX IS WRONG BRO" and becomes a christian. not just any christian, one of those dorky, douchey bigoted christians. then he says to tony, "OYE, HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN. I CAN'T WORK FOR A fa**ot ANYMORE YO" and ditches him to become a member of the westboro baptist church. then 5 years later we see luis in a cutscene, then he falls down the stairs and breaks his neck within one minute. that would be out of character and luis wouldn't die so easily.

the scene didn't make trevor a badass, all it did was make johnny a pussy

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#133

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

Yes i agree it was a wasted Storyline Opportunity it was just one of many Disappointments In The Mediocre Storyline. 

 

 

The storyline in IV was mediocore too. Neither of those games can hold up to RDR, The Last of Us, Max Payne 3, Alan Wake, The Walking Dead series, Assassin's Creed 3, Uncharted 3, The God of War series, etc., in terms of story. Stop acting like GTAIV was some sprawling, epic masterpiece of a story on par with a Hemingway novel.


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#134

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:36 PM

I think the death scene was good writing for Johnny. It's a tragedy and I liked that it flowed from TLATD. Not every GTA protagonist is going to end with a happy ending and it fit for my perception of the L&TD ending he was doomed. The Civil War had devastated the Lost and destroyed Johnny's entire world. Even the fact Johnny got away with it is tainted because it was because of the Senator.

I.e. "The Man."

Johnny has been saying how much his "brothers" were awesome and the Man was BS his entire life. Yet, the Man helps him and his brothers try to kill him. He had shades of this even in the DLC. "I don't care if I die!" was his battle cry.

No wonder he went back to Ashley and became a strung out meth-head.

Trevor didn't kill Johnny. Johnny killed Johnny, a long time ago.
 

That was a beautiful comment. Trevor didn't kill Klebitz, he was dead already a long time ago. Trevor simply ended his suffering.

 

Ashley approves your post  :^:

 

0_0.jpg


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#135

Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:40 PM

 

Yes i agree it was a wasted Storyline Opportunity it was just one of many Disappointments In The Mediocre Storyline. 

 

 

The storyline in IV was mediocore too. Neither of those games can hold up to RDR, The Last of Us, Max Payne 3, Alan Wake, The Walking Dead series, Assassin's Creed 3, Uncharted 3, The God of War series, etc., in terms of story. Stop acting like GTAIV was some sprawling, epic masterpiece of a story on par with a Hemingway novel.

 

No one is comparing it to a Hemingway novel or any of those other games,they are comparing it to the GTA series past and present.


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#136

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:24 PM

I agree. I wanted to bash his head in myself.

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#137

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

 

 

He's obviously a troll.

You obviously have a crush on little Johnny for some reason , and that's ok, but to try and convince people that he was a bad ass, important, or anything great makes you seem delusional. I'm just being realistic here. What about Johnny Klebitz makes him your number 1 hero?? WHAT IS IT EXACTLY?? Explain.

 

He has sense and reason. A badass biker with a mind. He was also a part of a brotherhood. And I guess it just felt good using the sawed off shotgun on random people driving by. He also felt like a 21st century John Marston.

 

 

 

A modern day John Marston? Really?


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#138

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:59 PM

No one is comparing it to a Hemingway novel or any of those other games,they are comparing it to the GTA series past and present.

 

 

 

Yeah, that was hyperbole. Can you say... "hyperbole"?

 

Obviously it's being compared to all other GTA's, and some people are trying to elevate it to this masterful status, as if all GTA's, past and present, can't even come close to touching it. The story was bloated and, at times, downright dull, like ALL GTA's. So to call V's story "mediocore" is idiotic, because its at least on par with the other stories Rockstar has told through the GTA series. Do you get it now?


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#139

Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:38 PM

iProinsias, on 15 Jan 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

 

GtaIvFanboy, on 30 Oct 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Yes i agree it was a wasted Storyline Opportunity it was just one of many Disappointments In The Mediocre Storyline. 

 

 

The storyline in IV was mediocore too. Neither of those games can hold up to RDR, The Last of Us, Max Payne 3, Alan Wake, The Walking Dead series, Assassin's Creed 3, Uncharted 3, The God of War series, etc., in terms of story. Stop acting like GTAIV was some sprawling, epic masterpiece of a story on par with a Hemingway novel.

 

I actually didnt thought RDR had such a great story like everyone says even though i love the game its still pretty inconsistent . But i dont care because i play games for fun not for the story, if i wanted story i would either watch a movie, tv show or read a book because i feel those are still the best mediums to experience it, video games , even though they made a lot of progress in the last decade or so in term of storytelling, still have a long way until they reach that goal .


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#140

Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:05 AM

I think the statement about Johnny breaking ties with the Lost and Ashley would hold more weight if not for the fact that Johnny is very clearly with both Clay and Terry at the end--as well as the game repeatedly stating this is hardly the first time he and Ashley have "broken up."

 

In short, much like drug addiction, the issue is Johnny falling into old habits combined with a death wish.


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#141

Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:45 AM

I think the statement about Johnny breaking ties with the Lost and Ashley would hold more weight if not for the fact that Johnny is very clearly with both Clay and Terry at the end--as well as the game repeatedly stating this is hardly the first time he and Ashley have "broken up."

 

In short, much like drug addiction, the issue is Johnny falling into old habits combined with a death wish.

 

except, that again, johnny wouldn't have gone back with ashley, wouldn't have gone back to drugs, and wouldn't have re-created the lost.

maybe, just maybe, one of those things happening is possible, but not all three.


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#142

Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:48 AM Edited by Charles Phipps, 16 January 2014 - 01:51 AM.

 

I think the statement about Johnny breaking ties with the Lost and Ashley would hold more weight if not for the fact that Johnny is very clearly with both Clay and Terry at the end--as well as the game repeatedly stating this is hardly the first time he and Ashley have "broken up."

 

In short, much like drug addiction, the issue is Johnny falling into old habits combined with a death wish.

 

except, that again, johnny wouldn't have gone back with ashley, wouldn't have gone back to drugs, and wouldn't have re-created the lost.

maybe, just maybe, one of those things happening is possible, but not all three.

 

 

All three happening would have probably happened if one happened, IMHO, because it's like a set of dominos. However, my opinion is that Johnny is not trying to avoid self-destructive behavior. He's not falling into a trap, he's walking fully and completely aware into self-destruction. My interpretation is he wants to die after the events of the game and basically just wallows in his own emotional waste until someone kills him.

 

You're welcome to say otherwise, of course. It's just an opinion and you have evidence to back up your views. I'm just saying why I think it was appropriate.

 

Basically, my take is Johnny is with Ashley because he doesn't feel he deserves any better and takes the drugs to cope with the horrible things he's done. As for the Lost getting re-made, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a story there with the collapse of the Angels of Death and the rise of the national Lost MC. I will say, however, that's extremely unlikely and smells like a retcon that the Lost MC was a national gang from the beginning.


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#143

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:09 AM

I actually didnt thought RDR had such a great story like everyone says even though i love the game its still pretty inconsistent . But i dont care because i play games for fun not for the story, if i wanted story i would either watch a movie, tv show or read a book because i feel those are still the best mediums to experience it, video games , even though they made a lot of progress in the last decade or so in term of storytelling, still have a long way until they reach that goal .

 

 

Ha, read ANYTHING by L. Ron Hubbard or Carlton Mellick III, watch ANY movie by Ed Wood (like "Glenn or Glenda" or "Plan 9 From Outer Space") or David Lynch (if you watch "Eraserhead" and like it, I HATE you), or read any comic by Mark Millar, and tell me "Red Dead Redemption" isn't a superior story in every way, and I'll gladly punch you in the stomach for your ignorance.


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#144

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:11 AM

 

I actually didnt thought RDR had such a great story like everyone says even though i love the game its still pretty inconsistent . But i dont care because i play games for fun not for the story, if i wanted story i would either watch a movie, tv show or read a book because i feel those are still the best mediums to experience it, video games , even though they made a lot of progress in the last decade or so in term of storytelling, still have a long way until they reach that goal .

 

 

Ha, read ANYTHING by L. Ron Hubbard or Carlton Mellick III, watch ANY movie by Ed Wood (like "Glenn or Glenda" or "Plan 9 From Outer Space") or David Lynch (if you watch "Eraserhead" and like it, I HATE you), or read any comic by Mark Millar, and tell me "Red Dead Redemption" isn't a superior story in every way, and I'll gladly punch you in the stomach for your ignorance.

 

 

Yeah, the idea games don't have story died long long ago.

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#145

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:17 AM

Yeah, the idea games don't have story died long long ago.

 

Exactly. The first "Max Payne" had a better story than half of the stories (in print) I've read.

 

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do." - Max Payne. f*cking amazing.


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#146

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:27 AM Edited by nobum62, 16 January 2014 - 02:27 AM.

 

 

I think the statement about Johnny breaking ties with the Lost and Ashley would hold more weight if not for the fact that Johnny is very clearly with both Clay and Terry at the end--as well as the game repeatedly stating this is hardly the first time he and Ashley have "broken up."

 

In short, much like drug addiction, the issue is Johnny falling into old habits combined with a death wish.

 

except, that again, johnny wouldn't have gone back with ashley, wouldn't have gone back to drugs, and wouldn't have re-created the lost.

maybe, just maybe, one of those things happening is possible, but not all three.

 

 

All three happening would have probably happened if one happened, IMHO, because it's like a set of dominos. However, my opinion is that Johnny is not trying to avoid self-destructive behavior. He's not falling into a trap, he's walking fully and completely aware into self-destruction. My interpretation is he wants to die after the events of the game and basically just wallows in his own emotional waste until someone kills him.

 

You're welcome to say otherwise, of course. It's just an opinion and you have evidence to back up your views. I'm just saying why I think it was appropriate.

 

Basically, my take is Johnny is with Ashley because he doesn't feel he deserves any better and takes the drugs to cope with the horrible things he's done. As for the Lost getting re-made, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a story there with the collapse of the Angels of Death and the rise of the national Lost MC. I will say, however, that's extremely unlikely and smells like a retcon that the Lost MC was a national gang from the beginning.

 

 

the lost was a small gang from the beginning.

 

also i don't think johnny was depressed during TLAD and i doubt he would be after TLAD, even if he lost like half his friends. ashley asked him if he's okay, and johnny says, "my whole life is falling to sh*t sweetheart. but f*ck it i'm alright." in fact, johnny still had a sense of humour and made jokes, including making fun of Stubbs's stub after seeing him naked

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#147

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:34 AM

the lost was a small gang from the beginning.

 

also i don't think johnny was depressed during TLAD and i doubt he would be after TLAD, even if he lost like half his friends. ashley asked him if he's okay, and johnny says, "my whole life is falling to sh*t sweetheart. but f*ck it i'm alright." in fact, johnny still had a sense of humour and made jokes, including making fun of Stubbs's stub after seeing him naked

 

 

Yeah, I know they existed solely around Aldermany and Liberty City. I'm not disputing the retcon the gang is almost completely destroyed at the end of TL&TD but is, apparently, now the largest motorcycle gang in the country. Certainly enough that Trevor doesn't even seem to impact it by destroying the Sandy Shores Chapter of the group.

 

I do think Johnny being "okay" with the events of TL&TD isn't actually consistent with his character as described in the previous part of the game. TL&TD goes out of its way to show Johnny as a deeply troubled man (comparable to Nico) and the events of the game hammer on that even more.

 

I love Johnny as a character but in a way, part of why I like this is that it's distinct and original. Undignified as his death may be, his story has a complete arc and there's no loose ends like with Claude or other characters.


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#148

Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:53 AM Edited by nobum62, 16 January 2014 - 02:54 AM.

i consider niko to be more tragic than johnny if you chose the deal ending. johnny lost a lot of friends, but they were all gangsters who lived dangerously. when niko says, "roman, never hurt anyone..." he's saying that roman did not deserve to die and wasn't supposed to die because he didn't live a criminal life like niko and others IMO


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#149

Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:02 AM

WTF are you guys talking about? Johnny wasn't a pussy. He broke into prisons, saved prisoners, killed a politician and got away with it, stood up to himself against their drug addicted psycho douchebag leader (Billy).

 

 

...who cares? That kind of behavior is par for the course in a GTA game. He was a bitch that Trevor stomped out, get over it. GTAV is canon, meaning either Johnny became a bitch Trevor could stomp out easily, or Trevor is such a badass he stomped that motherf*cker out without hesistation because he wasn't scared of The Lost in the least. Either way, Trevor >>>>>>>>> Johnny K.


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#150

Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:03 AM

 

As Trevor's final boss instead of just

Spoiler
like an idiot... I feel like the could've used The Lost a lot more into the story than just the f*cking beginning, did they rush it too much and decided just to kill of Johnny?? Or did Rockstar just wanted to prove how much of a badass Trevor was by single-handily kill The Lost? It would've definitely been a better story than f*cking Devon...

I didn't even like Johnny, but the way they treated his character was extremely horrid writing. The Lost and Damned died at the end of that DLC. Johnny left behind his past, he showed promise. But instead of getting his business together, Rockstar decided to move him, and the entire DEAD Lost and Damned crew out in the rear end of nowhere for some reason. Luis and Tony would've made a lot more sense to make a cameo in this game, because L.A. has a pretty decent nightlife from what I've seen.

 

Not mentioning becoming completely into drugs despite being against it in TLAD.

I feel as though Jonny was only put into V so that someone made a cameo, and then they killed him, just like that. Pretty f*cking sh*tty, that really annoyed me, they could have killed any stupid biker, not the damn protagonist of IV TLAD, and the way he got killed was dumb, it's just like 'Really?' Jonny was ruthless and then gets chased down by one damn guy!

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

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