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My Overly Long Take on GTA IV and V

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PulpFiction
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#61

Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:25 AM

 

 

The problem with modern game industry and modern games is that all anyone cares about in a video game is the story, 

 

 

This. In my opinion, story is one of the least important factors in a a video game, and one of the most overrated ones too. even more overrated than graphics. 

The problem with the modern video game is industry is that they rely too much on story so players can be swooped in by emotions and whatnot. A video game is meant to be played, not watched. Beyond two Souls ended up being bad because there was hardly any actual gameplay, and mainly a story (which wasn't even that good) 

The fact is, you can have a full in-depth and compelling story, but make sure that there is a lot of gameplay. Don't pull a cheap shot by grabbing an emotion ridden narrative out of your ass, slap a few quick time events on and call it a game.

 

A video game is an interactive movie.

 

What the f*ck is a game without a story? Are you telling me that GTA would be such a great franchise without its story? Oh please, All that you can do in GTA if there is no story is to run people over, and please don't pull that "use your imagination" card, what is there to imagine? Means of torturing people?

 

No thanks, I already disliked the Mr. K mission.

 

 

I can see what he's saying that gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed for story, but the same should be true in reverse. I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think I'd be as much of a GTA fan if it stayed stagnant in a top down GTA approach. I'm getting older and want to be entertained in different ways. Some of the games I enjoy the most are heavily story driven.

 

I'm not a kid that plays Sonic The Hedgehog anymore. Times are changing. It's up to developers like R* to keep up with the latest trends. Story driven games are becoming more and more common. Either got to accept it or pull out your old Megadrive/N64/PS1 etc and play those games that didn't care too much about story.

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theworldfamous
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#62

Posted 13 November 2013 - 09:01 AM

Nice read, at least you make your point in a sensible way. I don't agree though and you make the same weird judgements as all the other people disappointed.

 

Every argument goes the same way. I'm mad because this or that feature I wanted/expected wasn't there!!! In my dreams I wanted to be able to attach parachutes to trucks and jump from planes, honking the national anthem, but I can't and it ruins the game for me. 

 

I don't have that at all with games. I just look at what IS there and try to have as much fun with it as I can. What is there in V is the tightest and most expansive open world game ever made. There's no other game that gives you this level of variety from over the top action in heists to nailbiting tension in some other missions to the quiet little stories you make for yourself when exploring. The world has an insane scope, but is detailed right down to the tiniest possible level. Admiring that is worth the price of admission alone. 

 

The action in the world is way better on almost every level than IV. Shooting is up there with the best dedicated third person shooters. Driving is tight and responsive and it's finally possible to have proper races with this driving model. IV's driving was great for that game, but the driving there wouldn't work if your doing high speed races along snaking country- and mountainroads. It's too random and would get frustrating fast. Missions now blend much better with the rest of the gameplay, where in IV they could feel like separate worlds. The little touches like the camera zooms really give everything a much smoother and more cinematic feel. 

 

The writing is some of Rockstar's best I think. It's becoming like it's own genre, and V shows that they're not afraid to stick to it, especially with Trevor. It's love it or hate it, I guess. I can see how people have trouble with trying to make a serious point about something government sponsored torture in the middle of a game that tries to turn everything into a dickjoke, but to me that's part of the appeal. My opinions on the topics aside, I liked that the game was willing to go there. I like that Trevor pisses off even some die-hard fans or other people have an actual disliking for Michael or Trevor because of something. It shows the story has teeth. 

 

In the past all those great elements were present in Rockstar's games, but I really think that V offers up the best mix of them yet. That means that apart from the core driving, shooting, crime parts, ANY feature can be dropped or changed. It's good that they remain critical of their own work and don't leave stuff in just because it plays well with the fans. In the short term that'll get you some kudos, in the long term it's going to kill creativity... it also doesn't do anything for sales (fans will buy it anyway). I've been gaming a long time, and I'm a fan too, but fan service kills franchises like Bobby Kotick. 

 

The people that are disappointed about some dropped features or changes to stuff they were used to, with all due respect, don't get it. It's part of how Rockstar works and what makes them different from other developers. It's also why their games are just that bit more special. 

 

In short, I respect your opinion, but for me the game does live up to every bit of hype I had for it. I guess my hype was just different to begin with. 

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CantThinkOfOne2013
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#63

Posted 13 November 2013 - 09:02 AM Edited by CantThinkOfOne2013, 13 November 2013 - 10:48 AM.

 

 

 

The problem with modern game industry and modern games is that all anyone cares about in a video game is the story, 

 

 

This. In my opinion, story is one of the least important factors in a a video game, and one of the most overrated ones too. even more overrated than graphics. 

The problem with the modern video game is industry is that they rely too much on story so players can be swooped in by emotions and whatnot. A video game is meant to be played, not watched. Beyond two Souls ended up being bad because there was hardly any actual gameplay, and mainly a story (which wasn't even that good) 

The fact is, you can have a full in-depth and compelling story, but make sure that there is a lot of gameplay. Don't pull a cheap shot by grabbing an emotion ridden narrative out of your ass, slap a few quick time events on and call it a game.

 

A video game is an interactive movie.

 

What the f*ck is a game without a story? Are you telling me that GTA would be such a great franchise without its story? Oh please, All that you can do in GTA if there is no story is to run people over, and please don't pull that "use your imagination" card, what is there to imagine? Means of torturing people?

 

No thanks, I already disliked the Mr. K mission.

 

 

I can see what he's saying that gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed for story, but the same should be true in reverse. I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think I'd be as much of a GTA fan if it stayed stagnant in a top down GTA approach. I'm getting older and want to be entertained in different ways. Some of the games I enjoy the most are heavily story driven.

 

I'm not a kid that plays Sonic The Hedgehog anymore. Times are changing. It's up to developers like R* to keep up with the latest trends. Story driven games are becoming more and more common. Either got to accept it or pull out your old Megadrive/N64/PS1 etc and play those games that didn't care too much about story.

 

The best games are the ones where Story and Gameplay work best together, but if developers can only focus on one aspect, it has to be gameplay as (apart form the Metal Gear Solid 4) the player spends the most of the time playing the game. If it happend in the other way where story was the only focus every game would be the length of Metal Gear Solid 4 and have Mass Effect 2 quality gameplay. As I mentioned in a previous post, a great story doesn't make a games issues suddenly disappear and that is what people need to get. Many gamers and critics will give a game a 10/10 rating purely based on story and ignore the game obvious issues. I love a great story just as much as the next person but when the gameplay is crap, the story doesn't make the game any better. Here's a reality check for story whores:

  • Even though Metal Gear Solid 4 has a great story, it's story doesn't stretch the gameplay length longer than 4 hours.
  • Even though Mass Effect 2 has a great story, it's story doesn't make the crappy combat any better or make the awful level design bearable.

GTA IV was actually still a good game, don't get me wrong, but when compared to previous games and GTA V, it's not good at all, while the world is undeniably excellent, lazy game design is obvious in many places (things like the Police Maverick and Police Predator not having spawn points is an example) and the main point of this, GTA IV's story doesn't make the planes flyable, it doesn't make Bowling and Pool fun, it doesn't add vehicle variety and it doesn't make the constant harassment from 'friends' to go bowling any more bearable.


woggleman
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#64

Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:38 AM

There are a lot of people who just want good gameplay. Why do you think the Saints Row series developed such a cult following? It's a video game and it knows it and embraces it. Not that it didn't have good stories until IV but gameplay was first and foremost.


bish0p2004
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#65

Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:57 PM

I agree about gameplay being the most important aspect of a video game. Sure the story gives you purpose and helps you become attached to the character, but half the time, I'm not even paying attention to the dialog. Yes, I love a good story, but only in movies and books. With games however, I just want to play.

Anyways, GTA IV will always be the worst major GTA in my opinion.

woggleman
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#66

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:57 AM

I love a good story in a game as well but without good gameplay it's putting ketchup on a bun with no burger.


Tilemaxx
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#67

Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:02 AM

Am i the only one here who thinks that MGS4, TLOU, GTA IV and GTAV are the best games of this generation, each one for it's own unique reasons? It's not a matter of personal taste and "maturity", it's the appreciation for great games and different kinds of experiences. I appreciate the storytelling of MGS4 through long cutscenes, i loved the seriousness and the maturity of GTA IV, i was completely blown away by the craziness, scope, and presentation of GTA V, i was emotionally attached to Joel and Ellie in TLOU.

Sure my taste, is different since 10 years ago, but i've learn to enjoy and adapt with all kinds of experiences, YES, GTA V is an experience. Just as IV, TLOU, MGS4 are.


Lil_B_The Basedgod
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#68

Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:02 PM Edited by Andreas, 18 January 2014 - 07:26 PM.

man, some people on this forum are assholes....

 

EDIT: Don't bump topics if you haven't anything constructive to say.


Vanto
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#69

Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:20 PM Edited by Vanto, 18 January 2014 - 08:09 PM.

man, some people on this forum are assholes....

Don't bump threads without something constructive to say.


Andreas
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#70

Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:52 PM Edited by Andreas, 18 January 2014 - 08:13 PM.

I read the first whole post about 2-3 weeks ago, and have to say this was nicely written and I enjoyed it thoroughly. This is definitely one of the best topics I've read in a while.

 

I particularly agree about GTA IV being an experience, rather than just a fun game. This is what makes me appreciate it so much. I know plenty of people who complain about IV, because it's not so much fun according to them, but an openworld game is more than just about variety in missions. It's about the overall picture, the missions, the story-telling, the characters, and finally the fun. I think this is what many don't seem to grasp. Either this, or they really don't care about the story and characters.

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Phoenix_Poop
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#71

Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:26 PM

I red the whole thing. I completely AGREE with you man. GTA V may not have lived up to our expectations, but that is because it was announced 2 year before release. 


Charles Phipps
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#72

Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:36 AM

Read your post, liked it.

In general, though, I'm going to have to say I disagree. While Grand Theft Auto IV is a masterpiece of storytelling and many other things, I'm going to have to go against the grain and say that Grand Theft Auto V is the superior game. I'm not going to say it was superior in all respects and this is purely a matter of taste but I have my own reasons for believing otherwise.

Grand Theft Auto IV was definitely an experience and the game went out of its way to create a general feeling of a "real world" despite the Hilly Clinton-esque Statue of Liberty. You came to know every single one of your quest-goers and Niko's struggle to become a rich hit man in order to escape the memories of his past. Niko's journey is a self-contained tragedy with a beginning, middle, and end. I'm not going to dispute its artistic value.

HOWEVER,

Grand Theft Auto V is an amazing world of tinsel, cinema, action movie sets, and craziness which is only slightly exaggerated. The world is full of grotesques who aren't nearly as believable as the ones in GTAIV but that's true of Hollywood in real-life. The hyper-exaggerated reality has its own pulse and beat I appreciated submersing myself in.

In a very real way, Grand Theft Auto V made me feel like I was in a movie and never really let up on that feeling. There were literally hundreds of action set pieces which felt like they came from big budget Hollywood blockbusters whether it involved the heists, the chase down the airport of Molly, or the ridiculous James Bond car Franklin drives.

The quality of the game is to be found in the three different perspectives on a city which exists slightly out of phase with reality. Franklin's perspective from a world of poverty and vice, Michael's perspective from the upper-class idle rich, and Trevor's perspective from the even dirtier poor regions than Franklin.
 
The cars, for me, handle perfectly for their role in establishing action movie-like chases. Ironically, the car chases for the police aren't about outrunning them anymore but outfoxing them. I enjoyed this much more once I realized this. You hide from the cops as opposed to outrun them. The law can't be outshot or outsped but it can tricked and deluded.

The story isn't as moving but it's about being a glorious heist series than one man's tragedy.


G_Masta_Phunk
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#73

Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:56 AM

 

What GTA V was not, for me, was an experience. Red Dead was an experience.

 

 

Sums it up for me quite well... red dead was like getting into a 3 hour long spaghetti western... it had powerful characters, a strong protag who you connected with, and a great story that made sense and went fluid.... I loved going to mexico and helping the rebels overthrow the "corrupt" government... only to find that the rebels were just as corrupt... I shed a tear and DID NOT EXPECT John to get shot up at the end.... I was left standing there going WTF..... in disbelief... 

 

Red Dead... in my opinion was the best R^ game.... 

 

IT is funny that you mentioned Vice... I was... way to young to play that game when it came out but my parents didnt care... I grew up on the God father, good fellows, and Scarface..... so Tommy Vercetti was not anyone foreign to me... Gta III was a great open world... i never really got it tho... meaning the point... Claude was just too souless.... Tommy however... I was like Yaaa! as a kid.. sawing that guy up in the apartment.... robbing the bank... building an EMPIRE... 

fc,550x550,forest.jpg

 

Buying the club... riding the bikes... watching that sunset over the beach (first semi pretty GTA game... ive played GTA since the 90's top down) 

 

Vice city was an experience....

 

I cant quite put my thumb on it but you nailed it .... V was not an experience... I didnt Feel for the three amigos like I did for Tommy Vercetti and John Marston.... hell even CJ

 

V I feel like went back to the philosophy of San Andreas... ironic as the maps are based in the same area... What San andreas did... even though I liked the story... was brought you a huge open world with 1000's of things to do... I think R^ with san andreas focused more on the world and random sh*t to do over the experience.... this same thing happened to V.. they were so focused on badass cut screens.. cool heists and a beautiful world... they never really linked it all together with any sort of adhesive... it seemed all over the place and as you said a holly wood type production... 

 

Thing with V is... as soon as I got online.. I dropped SP... why? because for what I said... Vice city was a story... Red dead was a story... IV was a story.... V and San Andreas are worlds with a story added on... the world is where its at.. and doing free roam and missions and races with your buddies... its all worth it... Gta O for me has given me a new experience which I never really had before because I had no idea GTA SA MP existed... 


Osho
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#74

Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:29 AM

I may sound boring, but gta vice city is the best game in the series. SA tops as the most fun filled game but it was also a step back on quite a few pointers compared to VC.

GTA IV was equally fun, beautiful and an improved gta. I don't think the absence of countryside was a big minus since the story never required to have one, but anyways it was a good experience although the missions were very easy and the enemy AI was incredibly dull. The silliness brought some good old fun and still retained the amazingly written characters as every previous gta's and it did brilliantly except with one major disappointment well.....just skip it and read the next para.

Coming to V, this game made a lot of step backs to easily ignore it.
Story was okay, characters still can't hold a candle to the amazing past games and the missions although varied much more easier than before except a few outstanding one's. The side jobs or fun have no room for any experiments or new approaches. It's still all the same except different and never seen before random events and other short missions.
The biggest improvement and the selling point is the detailed world, driving, revamped AI and cops system.

That's all.
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