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They ruined the mele combat

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BumpyJohnson
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#1

Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:03 AM Edited by BumpyJohnson, 12 September 2015 - 09:39 PM.

I'm extremely disappointed about this.  I'd rather have GTA IV's mele combat back.  What on earth happened here?  They claimed it was better but I cant see one way its better.  No combos (unless you dodge 1st),  you cant choose wether to punch or kick OR who you want to strike.  I cant tell you how many times I am aiming towards one person and hit my friend or someone else close by.  You also cant even block.  Wtf?  The KO punches look nice tho but damn that's it.

 

There is no more fighting aspect at all.  Its one strike at a time hoping you land 1st or wait until they strike then dodge and do the same counter over and over.  No skill in it period.  Big let down for me.  This has got to be fixed in the near future.  I was really looking forward to this.  I suggested a combat system awhile back but its not inline with the new system so here is a suggestion that goes with the current setup.

 

 

 

 

OK the 1st problem is choosing the strikes.  As stated above you cant in V.  Here is a way to make it possible that's in accordance with the current control scheme. 

 

Basic Mechanics

 

Left Trigger - puts you in fight mode and faces you towards an enemy (must be in fight mode to change the controls into whats listed below).

 

Left Stick - flick the stick in any direction to quickly shuffle in that direction,  hold the left stick in any direction to aim strikes at specific enemies.

 

X/Square - tap for fast/weak punches,  hold for slow/strong punches

 

A/X- tap for fast/weak kicks,  hold for slow/strong kicks

 

Y/Triangle - press to shove enemies

 

B/Circle - tap (timely) to dodge strikes, hold to block them

 

Right Trigger - hold to grab enemies or pick them up off the ground

 

When holding

 

Left Stick - hold the left stick in any direction to drag enemies around

 

X/Square - tap for fast/weak punches,  hold for slow/strong punches

 

A/X - tap for knees to the body,  hold for knees to the head

 

Y/Triangle - tap to throw/slam enemies, hold to do a grapple move like a choke

 

B/Circle - press to block strikes

 

Right Trigger - let go to release enemies

 

 

Fight Meta

 

You can block quick strikes but not strong strikes.  You can dodge strong strikes but not quick strikes.  Basically you cant just sit back and block or dodge everything.  You must choose the correct defense.  Simple but challenging.

 

Also,  counters need to be one free strike only not a combo like now.  A person shouldnt get 3 free hits for dodging one punch.  Now if my opponent chooses the wrong defense (tried to block a strong strike or tried to dodge a quick strike) then sure I should be able to combo but only the initial strike after the counter should be actually free.

 

 

As you can see this system basically uses the same buttons as in GTAV and would of course use the same animations.  I'm no game dev so I may be wrong but this sounds very possible to impliment.  Come on R*.  Don't leave this hole in your game.  Bring the joys of fighting in GTA4 to Los santos please.  Thoughts?

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BumpyJohnson
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#2

Posted 20 October 2013 - 12:01 AM

So I'm the only one who thins this?


Journey_95
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#3

Posted 20 October 2013 - 12:05 AM

yeah man I'm with you no idea why they dumbed it down they should have improved the combat system from GTA IV


AiraCobra
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#4

Posted 20 October 2013 - 12:14 AM

Yeah, I don't like it either I've noticed sometimes when I'm punching a passerby for the hell of it, It looks like I miss them but yet it still connects and he KO's.

 

Although I do like how you can run after the peds running around and just give them a sucker punch and their out cold with one punch also stops them from calling the police for punching out the first person


Cyper
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#5

Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:33 PM

To be 100% honest:

 

The only improvement I see in melee combat is the animations. More than that, the melee combat is just watered down compared to GTA IV. Not to mention the laughable fact that people die instantly from punches.


KeepCalm and CarryGun
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#6

Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

I'm glad they removed the 'target only' system for armed melee, in IV you couldn't run around with a baseball bat whacking random pedestrians like you could in previous GTAs. Now you most definitely can. :)

 

Its a shame they go down with one punch tho, I can remember running around in GTA III punching random homeless people (they always seemed more likely to fight back) until I had like 15 of them running after me looking for revenge.

 

Good times (I probably need psychological help).

 

 


JayAkuma
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#7

Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:14 AM

Well it is KIND of "realistic". Not everyone can take a hit and a surprise shot to the face will knock most people out. Not everyone dies instantly. 


CarlitoDorito
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#8

Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:28 PM

Apparently they've ruined everything.

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BOOCAKE4U
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#9

Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:52 PM Edited by BOOCAKE4U, 28 October 2013 - 06:38 AM.

i do miss boxing with cabdrivers (and luring them into traffic to be hit by cars, and getting them started fighting each other)

 

 

edit: six days later, after starting a lot of fights (and playing a little GTA 4), i think i do prefer the new system...much more fluid, you can fight multiple people at once, and it seems like you do have more control over where your hits are going than you might think at first


B Dawg
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#10

Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

I'm glad they removed the 'target only' system for armed melee, in IV you couldn't run around with a baseball bat whacking random pedestrians like you could in previous GTAs. Now you most definitely can. :)

 

 

Run and tap circle (PS3)? You most certanly can do it, but you need to time your hits.

 

Here's a video:

 

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Grand Cannon
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#11

Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:32 AM Edited by Grand Cannon, 22 October 2013 - 12:33 AM.

Oh never mind you got it.


BumpyJohnson
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#12

Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:33 AM

I'm glad they removed the 'target only' system for armed melee, in IV you couldn't run around with a baseball bat whacking random pedestrians like you could in previous GTAs. Now you most definitely can. :)

 

Its a shame they go down with one punch tho, I can remember running around in GTA III punching random homeless people (they always seemed more likely to fight back) until I had like 15 of them running after me looking for revenge.

 

Good times (I probably need psychological help).

 

 

I'd rather have the lock on target mechanic than the way it is in V.  You cant even choose who you want to hit when there is a crowd.  A friend and I was trying to beat up a group of peds and for some reason we kept being forced to hit each other.  Cant choose who you want to hit and cant choose what strikes to throw.  Its horrible.


Lock N' Stock
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#13

Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:35 AM

I like it better. It's easier to fight two on one. GTA IV's felt slow and inaccurate at times.


BumpyJohnson
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#14

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:14 PM

I like it better. It's easier to fight two on one. GTA IV's felt slow and inaccurate at times.

I disagree.  You don't really have control over who you hit.  A friend was beating up a ped and I tried to jump in and I kept hitting my friend.  Even when I aimed at the ped the game kept making me hit my friend.  You also don't have control over what strikes you do.  Sometimes they're kicks and sometimes they're punches.  Its horrible.  My suggestion would eliminate the current problems and give us 100% control over the fighting.  I don't even consider it fighting in V now.  Its just one hard blow at a time.  You also don't even block.  You can only evade and do the same counter.


Lock N' Stock
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#15

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:18 PM Edited by Gst0395, 23 October 2013 - 10:18 PM.

 

I like it better. It's easier to fight two on one. GTA IV's felt slow and inaccurate at times.

I disagree.  You don't really have control over who you hit.  A friend was beating up a ped and I tried to jump in and I kept hitting my friend.  Even when I aimed at the ped the game kept making me hit my friend.  You also don't have control over what strikes you do.  Sometimes they're kicks and sometimes they're punches.  Its horrible.  My suggestion would eliminate the current problems and give us 100% control over the fighting.  I don't even consider it fighting in V now.  Its just one hard blow at a time.  You also don't even block.  You can only evade and do the same counter.

 

Sorry, but I personally prefer this system, because of how faster it is.


theomenofficial
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#16

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Your combat idea is the exact same as Sleeping Dogs.


BumpyJohnson
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#17

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:29 PM Edited by BumpyJohnson, 23 October 2013 - 10:37 PM.

Your combat idea is the exact same as Sleeping Dogs.

No its not.  Here are the fighting commands in Sleeping Dogs.

 

X = light strike,  hold X = heavy strikes

Y = counter/use prop

B = grab, hold B = pick up enemy off the ground

Left stick = pulls/pushes grabbed enemies in different directions

 

You cannot chose wether to punch or kick nor can you choose wether the punch or kick is to the head or body. You also cant block as its soley based on countering.  My idea has a block as well as the freedom of choice.


Hooves07
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#18

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:44 PM

Damn...that video! LOL. I almost forgot how long it sometimes took to get a wanted star. Can't go around doing those shenanigans anymore(at least in length).


dodeca
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#19

Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:41 AM Edited by dodeca, 24 October 2013 - 03:52 AM.

Im with you OP. R* made comments that the melee was really strong even though it wasnt the focus of the game. We get this crap where you only get 3 or 4 punches, 2 stupid ass hold-to-dodge counters, no block, and a stomp to the knee. R* is saying loud and clear that you can trust them to talk bullsh*t. The only good things is you can target anyone and missile headbutt into people with the ragdoll button but thats no consolation when the fighting is so dumb and boring.

 

Sleeping dogs did it so well for a free roam game and R* had a year over sleeping dogs. WTF happened? Who gives a f*ck about tennis, golf and yoga? Who the f*ck is R* trying to cater to?

 

And if they take your suggestion seriously (fingers crossed to make the game better), they would do well to implement a tackle to the ground like sleeping dogs.

 

And what about different fight animations for different characters? They all fight the same.

 

Fighting with the knife, nightstick and hammer are dumb too. You cant disarm people either. When you take on a guard with a nightstick, whats up with the one hit kill?

 

So much for expecting a refinement over gta4.

 

 

Apparently they've ruined everything.

 

They shore did spit in the sweet memory of gta4, and not just once or twice.


Police24
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#20

Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:48 AM

I'm extremely disappointed about this.  I'd rather have GTA IV's mele combat back.  What on earth happened here?  They claimed it was better but I cant see one way its better.  You cant even choose wether to punch or kick now and it seems very clunky.  The KO punches look nice tho but damn that's it.  There is no more fighting with combos.  Its either take turns punching or dodge and do the same counter over and over.  Big let down for me.  This has got to be fixed.  I was really looking forward to this.  I suggested a combat system awhile back but its not inline with the new system so here is a suggestion that goes with the current setup.

 

 

When squared off

 

Left stick - Aims your strikes at specific characters

X - tap for punches to the head,  hold for punches to the body

A - tap for kicks to the head,  hold for kicks to the body

B - tap to dodge,  hold to block

Right Trigger - tap to push enemies,  hold to grab enemies or pick up grounded enemies

 

When holding enemies

 

Left stick - pulls, drags or guides enemies in different directions

X - tap for punches to the head,  hold for punches to the body

A - tap for knees to the head,  hold for knees to the body

B - tap to throw enemies,  hold to pick up and slam enemies

Right Trigger - let go to release enemies

 

 

Shouldn't this be easy to patch in?  It uses the same buttons as in V and would of course use the same animations.  All that's really being changed is the inputs and a few new animations.  I'm no game dev so I may be wrong but I really hope I'm not.  Come on R*.  Don't leave this hole in your game.  Am I alone on this?

 

 

Its GTA, not Fight Night.


dodeca
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#21

Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:56 AM

Its GTA, not Fight Night.
 

 

I guess you're happy with substandard games.


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#22

Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

yeah man I'm with you no idea why they dumbed it down they should have improved the combat system from GTA IV

In my view they did improve it from IV. It no longer feels like your weighed down by sand bags, the characters now move smoothly without feeling like a ton of cement. Sure the melee combat still isn't great, you still cant tackle, grapple, knee, elbow, etc, but still. Feels a whole lot better than it did on GTA IV.

 

I'm at a loss as to why they never make a decent combat system for GTA, but they haven't exactly dumbed it down since IV.

 

Oh yeah, you can tackle, press jump then circle straight after, it's the worst tackle on any game ever in history without a doubt, still a tackle i guess, or a dive.. Whatever..


BumpyJohnson
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#23

Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:54 AM

 

yeah man I'm with you no idea why they dumbed it down they should have improved the combat system from GTA IV

In my view they did improve it from IV. It no longer feels like your weighed down by sand bags, the characters now move smoothly without feeling like a ton of cement. Sure the melee combat still isn't great, you still cant tackle, grapple, knee, elbow, etc, but still. Feels a whole lot better than it did on GTA IV.

 

I'm at a loss as to why they never make a decent combat system for GTA, but they haven't exactly dumbed it down since IV.

 

Oh yeah, you can tackle, press jump then circle straight after, it's the worst tackle on any game ever in history without a doubt, still a tackle i guess, or a dive.. Whatever..

 

Actually being able to fight,  choose the enemy,  specific attacks,  etc. > better animations.


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#24

Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:47 AM

You are still able to fight, but the enemies are weaker.

 

You can still choose the enemy, its a little bit sensitive but you still can.

 

IVs animations were pretty generic, do you call that good animations? In V I actually feel like if the character was really fighting.

 

You still have specific attacks.


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#25

Posted 28 October 2013 - 06:04 AM

GTA IV had crappy Melee, RDR had crappy Melee, the ONLY GTA game that had good Melee was Vice City Stories since it had actual extended attacks for grabbing, throwing, kneeing, kicking, etc.


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#26

Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

No its not.  Here are the fighting commands in Sleeping Dogs.

 

So your opinion trumps his?

 

Seems legit. :rol:


BumpyJohnson
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#27

Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:51 AM

*Original post updated*


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#28

Posted 13 November 2013 - 09:38 AM

Bully had the best melee combat system. 


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#29

Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:10 AM

I like it better than IVs actually, it's a lot more fluid and effective this time. I agree I would like to be able to control the moves more... but that's going back to my opinion that melee has always been criminally underused in GTA. They're always too fast to go for the big guns, while a more melee focus would actually serve the story and setting quite well. Especially now that guns are so much more damaging. 

 

For the purposes it serves in the game right now it's more than suitable. If they would make it any better, it would really start to hurt that during the  course of the game it's hardly ever used. 


BumpyJohnson
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#30

Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:26 PM Edited by BumpyJohnson, 13 November 2013 - 08:29 PM.

I like it better than IVs actually, it's a lot more fluid and effective this time. I agree I would like to be able to control the moves more... but that's going back to my opinion that melee has always been criminally underused in GTA. They're always too fast to go for the big guns, while a more melee focus would actually serve the story and setting quite well. Especially now that guns are so much more damaging. 

 

For the purposes it serves in the game right now it's more than suitable. If they would make it any better, it would really start to hurt that during the  course of the game it's hardly ever used. 

I disagree.  1st,  IV is much better.  You can choose your strikes.  You can switch between the targets you want to hit.  There are more different strikes and combos especially after the counters.  You can BLOCK.  You can also actually have a strategic fight.  None of this exists in V.  Also,  V isn't more fluid IMO.  At least when it comes to a fight.  Hell there is no fight in V.  The only thing fluid is throwing a strike while running but that's not fighting.

 

2nd,  I disagree that fighting has always been underused in GTA.  Maybe in your home but certainly not mine and many others.  Its certainly more used than things like bowling,  darts and other minigames.  In TBOGT there was even a fight club and online a lot of ppl had fist fights even creating fight clubs themselves.  Go on youtube and you can find countless videos of ppl using it.

 

As for mele in V,  they used memory space for crap like freakin Yoga.  Come on and there are a lot of other things ppl rarely use that are in the game.  That space could've or I should say "should've" been used to revamp the mele.  You actually think tennis or golf will be more used than a fight club online?  They said they will be adding to online so hopefully they take out the less used stuff and fix the fighting aspect and even add a fight club.





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