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Sleeping Dogs 2

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UtricularEwe001
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#31

Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:58 AM Edited by UtricularEwe001, 21 December 2013 - 07:53 AM.

Again, I was the one who said it first, that the value of those things were subjective.  How you think you're schooling me on the difference between fact and opinion is beyond me.
 
I'm surprised you even think this is debatable, that Sleeping Dogs had more thought put into its gameplay than GTA 5, that one is about innovation and the other is about graphics and image. Very well.  Here is a list of examples of what I mean when I say that.  These are factual differences between the two games.  Let's see how much of it you can bring yourself to admit is true

Hahaha no, it's still your Opinion and I respect that. If you like SD more than GTA, that's absolutely fine. As you said, it's not even debatable, that GTA V crushes every other game.

 

More advanced hand to hand and melee combat.  More advanced skill/perk progression system

No sh*t Sherlock, it was advertised as martial arts game. The combat system entirely revolves around hand-to-hand combat.

You can access your vehicles from garages in any area of the map right from the start.  And before long, you can get a valet service by which someone actually brings your favorite car to you

Well, it's pretty clear that you haven't played GTA V and you are just trolling.

You can hijack moving vehicles by leaping onto them from your own.  You can ram enemy vehicles off the road with the press of a button and analog stick

.

So are saying, you can't ram an enemy of the road in GTA V? You can do this is in V too.

You can save outfits in your wardrobe, making it easy to choose what to wear.

Better in GTA V due to larger variety of clothes.

Food/drinks give temporary boosts to stats such as the damage you can do, the damage you take from enemy attacks, and health regeneration.  You can shoot while jumping over objects and out of a moving vehicle, with the option to slip into a sort of "bullet time" no less.  You can buy a vehicle, lose/destroy it, and return to your garage for another one.  You can gamble in more than just one way.  There are better rewards for collectibles, ranging from the acquisition of a new combat move to a health bonus to money and clothing that is then unlocked in stores.  In Sleeping Dogs, the cops aren't psychic.  If you kill someone where they can't see, they don't know about it.  You can change objectives (where your GPS points you to) with the press of a button.  You can take a human shield. You can disarm opponents and use their weapon against them.  You can put people in your trunk and drive around looking for the perfect place to perform what is called an environmental kill.  Your character is capable of better parkour.  You can jump over walls, fences, cars, etc. with ease.  Clothes and accessories can give you experience gain bonuses.  In SD, it takes a considerably shorter time to look at your map and set waypoints manually, partially because you can bring the map itself up by pressing a single button.  And finally, you dont have to play the mini-map, because the GPS puts arrows on the road itself.  This is an incomplete list.

 

mj-laughing.gif

http://m.youtube.ceE...h?v=fKX_eEtrrHI

http://uk.ign.com/ar...-blow-your-mind

http://m.neogaf.com/...ad.php?t=681733

http://n4g.com/news/...missed-in-gta-v

V literally sh*ts on SD

"Perfect balance between fun and realism"?  Now you're the one posting your opinion as if it is fact.  Think before you post.  And the point I made about people antagonizing you (and only you) just for walking on the sidewalk has a great deal to do with immersion (in that it works against it), thank you very much.  Only in a video game do the people around you single you out for no apparent reason.  Therefore this decision by Rockstar is reminding you you're playing a video game.  Therefore, immersion ruined.

Police chase NPC's too and if a NPC has a sports car, he will race against you. What does SD offer? Oh wait, it's f*cking nothing.

 

...So can you direct me to where Rockstar said that was the reason?  And do you have an explanation as to why they're supposedly limiting the player to activities that fit the protagonists' personality all of a sudden when they didn't do this in any other game?
 
I'll tell you what I see.  I see failed attempts at making the dating and relationship concept work properly without needless aggravation, game after game.  And then, a sudden hiatus from it.  What else can I logically conclude, except that they just weren't up to the challenge of perfecting it?

Sigh

http://m.imgur.com/a/GsODP

Since you haven't even play V, i'm not sure how you come to your sh*tty opinions. Anyway, it clear that you are blind fanboy trolling.

And please do look at other responses other than me. It's apparent that most people didn't like SD too.

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#32

Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:30 AM Edited by Vic 2.0, 21 December 2013 - 11:32 AM.

Hahaha no, it's still your Opinion and I respect that. If you like SD more than GTA, that's absolutely fine. As you said, it's not even debatable, that GTA V crushes every other game.

 

 

An opinion... that's been proven correct at this point?  I gave plenty of examples of how they were innovative in their design of the game as compared to how Rockstar threw GTA 5 together... You've given none to show how they even tried to improve on the genre in terms of gameplay with this game you insist "crushes every other game".  Graphics, yes.  Presentation, maybe.  Gameplay?  Sorry, not seein' it!

 

No sh*t Sherlock, it was advertised as martial arts game. The combat system entirely revolves around hand-to-hand combat.

 

 

Are you admitting that when GTA games aren't advertised as specifically one "type" of game, they don't care to improve on those aspects of the game?  Because that was my point all along.

 

So are saying, you can't ram an enemy of the road in GTA V? You can do this is in V too.

 

 

Not with a feature like the one I described from SD, no one can.  And you missed the whole hijacking feature.  What's wrong, couldn't come up with an explanation as to why none of your protags in GTA 5 can do this?  Do you think it also must be exclusive to martial arts games?

 

 
 
 
 
V literally sh*ts on SD

 

 

First link doesn't work.  Second appears to prove me correct, that the vast majority of Rockstar's time with this game was spent on graphics and presentation, not gameplay.  Only read half of them, though, will read the rest later.  So far, this is the only one adding to gameplay:

 

"If you pull up to a red light in a sports car next to someone else in a sports car and rev your engine, they’ll often burn out and race you when the light turns green."

 

Interestingly, some of these "good things" actually take freedom away from the player, diminishing gameplay instead of adding to it.  We discussed the GPS thing already, as we did the radio stations going out.  But this...

 

"If you try to force Trevor to listen to certain kinds of music, he’ll get angry and override you, changing the radio station back himself."

 

That was not a good thing!  I should have control over the character when playing him.  GTA is supposed to be about freedom, after all.

 

Well, out of time.  Up to this point, you've given me no reason to retract my statement, that Sleeping Dogs offered a whole heck of a lot more features to do with the gameplay.  Innovation.  It wouldn't kill Rockstar to at least give it a shot.

 
Lastly, yes, I've played the game.  I believe I said that already.  Not everyone who's played it liked it, shocking as that may be to you!  And I think I've been posting on these boards long enough to not have the "troll" label thrown at me.  That's just an attempt at an easy way out on your part.  Stick to the topic, if you don't mind.

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#33

Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:58 PM Edited by AceKingston, 21 December 2013 - 12:58 PM.

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.


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#34

Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

Right. If it weren't for DRIVER, GTA 3D eras wouldn't have existed.


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#35

Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

Not really GTA released in 1997, driver in 1999. The only thing Driver changed was the 3D graphics. Other than that it was pretty much a 3D GTA 2.


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#36

Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:35 PM

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

You mean to tell me GTA single-handedly created the open world genre?


UtricularEwe001
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#37

Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:01 PM Edited by UtricularEwe001, 21 December 2013 - 06:34 PM.

So according to you, your examples were gameplay and my wasnt? Seems legit. You like SD more than V, that's your opinion and it's absolutely fine. But for me (and another 20 million people) V is better than every other game in terms of scope, gameplay, activities, and graphics.

It's also weird that a game which has so much innovation than GTA (according to you), was cancelled. Even Activision, thought this game was not worth publishing!


Anyhow, I don't think this discussion going to end anytime soon and I don't want to derail the thread anymore.

Oh and finally, it may be shocking to you, but no game is going to outsell GTA :p

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#38

Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:38 PM

 

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

You mean to tell me GTA single-handedly created the open world genre?

 

Yes it did. GTA came out in 1997 and it was OPEN WORLD, just not in 3d. I don't think your fit enough to be on this forum.


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#39

Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:45 PM

 

 

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

You mean to tell me GTA single-handedly created the open world genre?

 

Yes it did. GTA came out in 1997 and it was OPEN WORLD, just not in 3d. I don't think your fit enough to be on this forum.

 

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

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#40

Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

 

Yes, innovation.  I gave tons of examples.  And I liken the degree of innovation Rockstar put into GTA 3 after Driver 1 and Driver 2*, to the degree of innovation UFG put into Sleeping Dogs after GTA 4.

 

*According to Wikipedia, GTA 2 was released in September of 1999, after Driver 1 has been released in June of that same year.  It wasn't for another two years that Rockstar released GTA 3, the first ground-view game of the series, and this was also almost a year after Driver 2 had been released.  Ultimately, concept-wise, one could argue this game and that game are "GTA clones", but in terms of layout with the mini-map in the corner and all that jazz, they're all Driver clones *plays melody* The more you know! :p

 

It's also weird that a game which has so much innovation than GTA (according to you), was cancelled. Even Activision, thought this game was not worth publishing!

 

What's to be said, a lot of people got it wrong.  Now, tons of gamers are singing the praises of Square Enix and giving SD the respect it has earned.  And I'm not the only one who likes it better than the newer GTA games.  But you're probably aware of that already.

 

No, the series probably won't ever sell more than GTA.  But then, that's not why I buy or play games, so I don't see the point in bringing it up.


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#41

Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:46 AM

Gta Pretty much gave birth to games like True Crime so it does not matter if it was not the first open world game its  still  what Inspired many games that came out  after Gta III would true crime L.A of  existed if gta III  Never came out?  NO  debate it all you like but its true.

 


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#42

Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:19 AM Edited by Vic 2.0, 22 December 2013 - 02:20 AM.

Gta Pretty much gave birth to games like True Crime so it does not matter if it was not the first open world game its  still  what Inspired many games that came out  after Gta III would true crime L.A of  existed if gta III  Never came out?  NO  debate it all you like but its true.

 

 

GTA 3 really raised the bar in many ways, but it was not the forefather of "3D" (ground-view) sandbox crime games.  Driver and Driver 2 came out before we got the chance to see our boy Claude, sorry.

 

That being said, I don't get the assumption that if GTA never existed, no one else would've thought up the idea of an open world crime game by now.  I think someone would have, though I can't imagine living my life without GTA 3, VC, and SA!


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#43

Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:26 AM Edited by AceRay, 22 December 2013 - 02:26 AM.

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

 

Dammit Phil, you long-haired hippy basterd, you beat me to it.

 

Also, the 1990 Terminator game, Elder Scrolls 2: Dragonfall and Body Harvest would like a word with you too.

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#44

Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

 

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

 

Dammit Phil, you long-haired hippy basterd, you beat me to it.

 

Also, the 1990 Terminator game, Elder Scrolls 2: Dragonfall and Body Harvest would like a word with you too.

 

I knew Body Harvest was up there with the open world sandbox games, I just kept thinking it was sometime from the late 90s though.

 

Did they really make a Terminator game?


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#45

Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:57 AM

 

 

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

 

Dammit Phil, you long-haired hippy basterd, you beat me to it.

 

Also, the 1990 Terminator game, Elder Scrolls 2: Dragonfall and Body Harvest would like a word with you too.

 

I knew Body Harvest was up there with the open world sandbox games, I just kept thinking it was sometime from the late 90s though.

 

Did they really make a Terminator game?

 

Body Harvest was 98, around the same time as Driver. If I'm wrong, you can email me your answer at [email protected]

 

And here's that Terminator game in all its glory, the only game ever where you can doom humanity by buying a condom:


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#46

Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:05 AM

I clicked at a random point in the video, which was the store scene at around 5:40. I f*cking lost it when the pop-up said that the police want to have a word with you. It's so primitively beautiful!


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#47

Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:56 AM

 

 

 

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

You mean to tell me GTA single-handedly created the open world genre?

 

Yes it did. GTA came out in 1997 and it was OPEN WORLD, just not in 3d. I don't think your fit enough to be on this forum.

 

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

 

 

One of them is an RPG.

One of them is a racing game.

Another is open-world but is quite different to GTA.

 

GTA was the pinnacle of Open-world games true not the first. But it did revolutionize the open-world genre. And it was crime game too so that is sort of the point.


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#48

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:00 AM

 

 

 

 

Innovation in SD? I haven't played GTA V yet, but if it weren't for GTA, SD wouldn't haven't existed bro.

You mean to tell me GTA single-handedly created the open world genre?

 

Yes it did. GTA came out in 1997 and it was OPEN WORLD, just not in 3d. I don't think your fit enough to be on this forum.

 

 

Please do your research before you spew such stupid statements on the internet:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Age_of_Darkness - 1981

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(video_game) -1985

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Turbo_Esprit - 1986

 

 

One of them is an RPG.

One of them is a racing game.

Another is open-world but is quite different to GTA.

 

GTA was the pinnacle of Open-world games true not the first. But it did revolutionize the open-world genre. And it was crime game too so that is sort of the point.

 

Sleeping Dogs wasn't a crime game, though. Sure, it had elements of crime, but the big picture itself wasn't crime-centric.


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#49

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:11 AM

I agree. It'd be unfair to compare SD to GTA. If I remember correctly the protag in SD is an undercover cop, right?

 

Still SD is part of the True Crime series, TC was inspired off GTA.


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#50

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:13 AM

I agree. It'd be unfair to compare SD to GTA. If I remember correctly the protag in SD is an undercover cop, right?

 

Still SD is part of the True Crime series, TC was inspired off GTA.

Yep, Wei was an undercover cop.

 

I wouldn't say that True Crime was inspired from GTA, though. Just because it's open world and you can steal cars doesn't automatically make it one. In my opinion, stuff like "Gangstars" are inspired from GTA.


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#51

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:34 AM Edited by Vic 2.0, 22 December 2013 - 04:38 AM.

...Still SD is part of the True Crime series,

 

Actually, no.

 

The game started development as an original title, but was announced in 2009 as True Crime: Hong Kong, the third installment and a reboot of the True Crime series.[7] As a result of the game's high development budget and delays, it was canceled by Activision Blizzard in 2011. Six months later, it was announced that Square Enix had picked up the publishing rights to the game, renamed Sleeping Dogs, without a relation to True Crime.[8]

 

Sleeping Dogs (Wikipedia)

 

But I always figured that when people referred to games as "GTA clones", they were talking about the format and what could be done in the game, regardless of the story or identity of the main character, etc.  That's why I say anyone who would call SD a GTA clone might as well start calling GTA 3 a Driver 2 clone while they're at it.  Because Sleeping Dogs only used the same format as GTA to build and innovate around, just like Rockstar use the same format as Driver 1 and Driver 2 to build and innovate around when they created GTA 3.  Indeed, for all we know, the core developers of SD were playing Driver back when it came out and dreaming of making a game like it in the future.


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#52

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:36 AM

Driver was basically GTA 2 with 3D graphics. Nothing great about 3D graphics considering Ocarina of time had 3D graphics too.


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#53

Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:40 AM

 

...Still SD is part of the True Crime series,

 

Actually, no.

 

The game started development as an original title, but was announced in 2009 as True Crime: Hong Kong, the third installment and a reboot of the True Crime series.[7] As a result of the game's high development budget and delays, it was canceled by Activision Blizzard in 2011. Six months later, it was announced that Square Enix had picked up the publishing rights to the game, renamed Sleeping Dogs, without a relation to True Crime.[8]

 

Sleeping Dogs (Wikipedia)

 

But I always figured that when people referred to games as "GTA clones", they were talking about the format and what could be done in the game, regardless of the story or identity of the main character, etc.  That's why I say anyone who would call SD a GTA clone might as well start calling GTA 3 a Driver 2 clone while they're at it.  Because Sleeping Dogs only used the same format as GTA to build and innovate around, just like Rockstar use the same format as Driver 1 and Driver 2 to build and innovate around when they created GTA 3.  Indeed, for all we know, the core developers of SD were playing Driver back when it came out and dreaming of making a game like it in the future.

 

 

Like I said above, I constitute GTA clones as games that're very very similar to the GTA series, but with changes only in name, like my above example, gangstar

 

gangstar.png


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#54

Posted 22 December 2013 - 05:33 AM

Driver was basically GTA 2 with 3D graphics. Nothing great about 3D graphics considering Ocarina of time had 3D graphics too.

 

The point is, Rockstar showed no intention of giving their games 3D graphics until the makers of Driver did it first.

 

 

 

...Still SD is part of the True Crime series,

 

Actually, no.

 

The game started development as an original title, but was announced in 2009 as True Crime: Hong Kong, the third installment and a reboot of the True Crime series.[7] As a result of the game's high development budget and delays, it was canceled by Activision Blizzard in 2011. Six months later, it was announced that Square Enix had picked up the publishing rights to the game, renamed Sleeping Dogs, without a relation to True Crime.[8]

 

Sleeping Dogs (Wikipedia)

 

But I always figured that when people referred to games as "GTA clones", they were talking about the format and what could be done in the game, regardless of the story or identity of the main character, etc.  That's why I say anyone who would call SD a GTA clone might as well start calling GTA 3 a Driver 2 clone while they're at it.  Because Sleeping Dogs only used the same format as GTA to build and innovate around, just like Rockstar use the same format as Driver 1 and Driver 2 to build and innovate around when they created GTA 3.  Indeed, for all we know, the core developers of SD were playing Driver back when it came out and dreaming of making a game like it in the future.

 

 

Like I said above, I constitute GTA clones as games that're very very similar to the GTA series, but with changes only in name, like my above example, gangstar

 

I noticed, and I'm not disagreeing with you.  It just doesn't seem to me that most people who use the phrase define it that way.  It isn't too hard to find claims online that SD is just another "GTA clone".


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#55

Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:52 AM Edited by UtricularEwe001, 22 December 2013 - 06:53 AM.

that's why I say anyone who would call SD a GTA clone might as well start calling GTA 3 a Driver 2 clone while they're at it.  Because Sleeping Dogs only used the same format as GTA to build and innovate around, just like Rockstar use the same format as Driver 1 and Driver 2 to build and innovate around when they created GTA 3.  Indeed, for all we know, the core developers of SD were playing Driver back when it came out and dreaming of making a game like it in the future.

Hahaha no.

If GTA was a clone, it would be this (R* own game):

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Smuggler's_Run

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#56

Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:56 AM Edited by Raavi, 22 December 2013 - 07:06 AM.

I'd rather see them expanding on the law aspect of the game, that to me was what made Sleeping Dogs interesting. Furthermore, there are already more than enough games that focus on the criminal side. It is high time for some games that revolve around the highs and lows of law enforcement, would be truly interesting to play the genuine good guy (cop) for once.


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#57

Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

The point is, Rockstar showed no intention of giving their games 3D graphics until the makers of Driver did it first.


There was nothing great about the Driver's 3D graphics. Have you heard of Ocarina of Time? A game which was 3D that came out before Driver. GTA did revolutionize the crime open-world genre. How many games can you name that have open-world freedom, good story, side activities, weapons etc. A mix of many things?

And SD is part of the TC universe. Thing is if it weren't for TC, SD wouldn't have existed and if it weren't for GTA, TC wouldn't have existed.

Vic 2.0
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#58

Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:11 AM Edited by Vic 2.0, 22 December 2013 - 11:29 AM.

 

Hahaha no.

If GTA was a clone, it would be this (R* own game):

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Smuggler's_Run

 

 

That game came out in October of 2000.  This was after Driver had been released in June of 99.

 

Plus, you couldn't even get out of your vehicle in Smuggler's Run, IIRC, much less steal other people's cars.  As far as 3D games go, that feature showed up first with Driver 2, one month after Smuggler's Run, almost a year before GTA 3.


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#59

Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:24 AM Edited by Vic 2.0, 22 December 2013 - 11:33 AM.

 

And SD is part of the TC universe. Thing is if it weren't for TC, SD wouldn't have existed and if it weren't for GTA, TC wouldn't have existed.

 

United Front Games is an entirely separate developer, independent of the people who made True Crime (Luxoflux).  It was the publisher (Activision) who wanted to release Sleeping Dogs (which began as its own original  project) as True Crime: Hong Kong.  Then later, of course, Square Enix picked up the project and released it as Sleeping Dogs.

 

But yes, Rockstar did so much more with GTA 3 than had been done with Driver 2 that it just doesn't matter who did the whole 3D thing first.  I see Sleeping Dogs much the same way.  They improved on the genre so much and in so many ways, it just doesn't matter who did the other things first.


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#60

Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

Rockstar were the first ones to the 3D Genre (when comparing them to the makers of Driver). They did it with Body Harvest on the N64. I even read somewhere that that inspired GTA 3's 3D graphics.





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