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Stock Market - An Attempt At Realism That Failed.

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TrevorPhilipsInc
  • TrevorPhilipsInc

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#1

Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:48 AM Edited by TrevorPhilipsInc, 30 September 2013 - 03:53 AM.

I have to applaud Rockstar for their attempt to give this game a much more realistic feel to it. Including the ability to play the Stock Market.

 

But I think they failed at two things here.

 

1.) Giving people a real tutorial on how to use the Stock Market and what to look for.

 

2.) Gauging whether this would be useful to the average player.

 

The result is a prime example of when a video game tries too hard to be realistic. It loses that sense of fun and becomes a task not a challenge.

 

The average person does not play the stock market in real life..Nor do they know the basics. Sure most people know of the concept of buying low spending high but they dont understand how people are able to predict what will go back up after dropping so low. Or what even effects that in the first place.

 

So even in a very watered down version of the stock market. Youre introducing a system that most people are instantly turned off by because of the real life counterpart being viewed as so difficult.

 

Throw in the fact that the game simply gives you the stocks to invest in and tells you when to sell. It fails to show you how to do this on your own without the game guiding you.

 

And without the Guide or replaying the game after the first time running through the assassination missions and taking down notes of where to invest. Most people wont have a chance to invest with all three characters. I know that the first time I went through was without the Guide or any useful information here on the site. So even as Franklin I missed out on a few opportunities to invest because once the mission started...Things went a little too fast for me to slow down and play the stock market.

 

Then theres the confusing fact that theres two different stock markets you can invest in. One is internal and the other is influenced by everyones stats. But the one influenced by stats is all over the place and difficult to predict...Or even know why things are going the way they are. We have no idea if its solely stats influencing it or if Rockstar themselves are manipulating it...Or if its even working properly for that matter.

 

I know Rockstar is datamining us and Id be very interested in seeing the numbers on how many are actually actively playing the stock markets trying to get their characters rich enough to buy up the properties and do as they please. Compared to who put little to no effort into it.

 

Personally I think its a failed attempt at the realism factor. They tried to introduce something new to the method of bringing in money. And without a serious tutorial or a playerbase that was invested in this feature. I really dont see this being used by the majority and most players will never see the billions of dollars youre supposedly able to make off the stock market.

 

After the end of the gameplay. Its pretty obvious that the only way to make the money needed to own all the properties and vehicles was to play the stock market. Id go as far as saying the stock market at the end of it all is more important then the heists as the stock market reels in 100 to 300% more profits then a heist.

 

 

Again I applaud the attempt. But being someone that bought this game for the sake of committing crimes in a video game. I just dont see the gritty side of Stock Markets like I do heists or stealing cars. For me the fun is in becoming this criminal and doing outrageous things a normal person wouldnt do or be able to get away with. I feel slightly disappointed that the method of making a lot of money falls into a very real world game of risk.

  • manik05 and BettyBlueGT like this

Pitch~Black
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#2

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:07 AM Edited by Pitch~Black, 30 September 2013 - 04:08 AM.

I totally agree on most points. However, as many posters have surmised (and I think correctly) the single player is seeming more and more to be a primer for the "real" game: GTA Online. I think once it's up and running we'll see some things, such as the stock market, come more in to focus and begin to work as intended. I pretty much couldn't be bothered by the stock market my entire play thru, and still can't. I also agree that most gamers won't understand or care about it; in particular since there is no proper tutorial. Seriously, if anything in the game would require a tutorial more, I can't think of it. But I wouldn't call it a failure just yet. Wait until the real game has been unlocked an running for a few weeks.


decon954
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#3

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:10 AM

I think it was an AWESOME addition to the game. Because it allows you to make extra money but only if you want, You don't have to do it which is great. As far as missing out on a few opportunities, well that's part of what makes my second play through even better. Yes a guide may have been a little help to clear some things up like how one thing affects another...but it's not hard to figure out..... And I think you are way wrong about " I really dont see this being used by the majority and most players will never see the billions of dollars youre supposedly able to make off the stock market"

 

I bet more people like it then don't and use it to make money... even after I beat the game I used it to more then double my $68 million just by picking up Hawk and little stock. Second where does it say you are to use it just to make BILLIONS....... At the start of the game when money is low you can use it EASILY to make 2-5 thousand fast over and over and over.


TommyK154
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#4

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:24 AM

I think this game of nice additions that are poorly executed. The stock market being one of them. Besides the assassination missions there isn't much to it. Bawsaq also isn't turning out as great as I thought it would. There's barely any opportunities to make any real money of the stock market.

 

Another example is the car customization. Its great that you can tune the cars and whatnot, but the only stat you can really affect is acceleration. What was the point of bothering with traction and top speed as those never change? Its nice to see some physical customization too, but I have Midnight Club LA, I know what R* is really capable of when it comes to car customization and GTA V is lacking horribly.

 

The properties are another miss. Its awesome that they are there but they are completely useless. It takes hundreds of weeks to break even on the properties from their profit. You're better off just not buying them at all. I'd also like to see a rent-out style of property buying like Fable in the next GTA.

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GamerPatriot
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#5

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:24 AM

It's hard to simulate the real life stock market. Too many factors that goes on that causes changes. There isn't any opening and closing in the game. I do like the feature however.


chainsoar
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#6

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:27 AM

You realise that it probably works exactly as intended? I don't think we can speculate with any degree of confidence whether R* intended the single player stock market to work beyond being influenced by Lester's assassinations.


JOHNNYLEX
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#7

Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:36 AM

I have to applaud Rockstar for their attempt to give this game a much more realistic feel to it. Including the ability to play the Stock Market.

 

But I think they failed at two things here.

 

1.) Giving people a real tutorial on how to use the Stock Market and what to look for.

 

2.) Gauging whether this would be useful to the average player.

 

The result is a prime example of when a video game tries too hard to be realistic. It loses that sense of fun and becomes a task not a challenge.

 

The average person does not play the stock market in real life..Nor do they know the basics. Sure most people know of the concept of buying low spending high but they dont understand how people are able to predict what will go back up after dropping so low. Or what even effects that in the first place.

 

So even in a very watered down version of the stock market. Youre introducing a system that most people are instantly turned off by because of the real life counterpart being viewed as so difficult.

 

Throw in the fact that the game simply gives you the stocks to invest in and tells you when to sell. It fails to show you how to do this on your own without the game guiding you.

 

And without the Guide or replaying the game after the first time running through the assassination missions and taking down notes of where to invest. Most people wont have a chance to invest with all three characters. I know that the first time I went through was without the Guide or any useful information here on the site. So even as Franklin I missed out on a few opportunities to invest because once the mission started...Things went a little too fast for me to slow down and play the stock market.

 

Then theres the confusing fact that theres two different stock markets you can invest in. One is internal and the other is influenced by everyones stats. But the one influenced by stats is all over the place and difficult to predict...Or even know why things are going the way they are. We have no idea if its solely stats influencing it or if Rockstar themselves are manipulating it...Or if its even working properly for that matter.

 

I know Rockstar is datamining us and Id be very interested in seeing the numbers on how many are actually actively playing the stock markets trying to get their characters rich enough to buy up the properties and do as they please. Compared to who put little to no effort into it.

 

Personally I think its a failed attempt at the realism factor. They tried to introduce something new to the method of bringing in money. And without a serious tutorial or a playerbase that was invested in this feature. I really dont see this being used by the majority and most players will never see the billions of dollars youre supposedly able to make off the stock market.

 

After the end of the gameplay. Its pretty obvious that the only way to make the money needed to own all the properties and vehicles was to play the stock market. Id go as far as saying the stock market at the end of it all is more important then the heists as the stock market reels in 100 to 300% more profits then a heist.

 

 

Again I applaud the attempt. But being someone that bought this game for the sake of committing crimes in a video game. I just dont see the gritty side of Stock Markets like I do heists or stealing cars. For me the fun is in becoming this criminal and doing outrageous things a normal person wouldnt do or be able to get away with. I feel slightly disappointed that the method of making a lot of money falls into a very real world game of risk.

If u dont like the stock market dont use it.


Lapdance
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#8

Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:09 AM

The Stock Market was an OK addition, but any normal stock market simulator let´s you go both short and long on any position, set the stop losses and take profits, place market orders and so forth.


BettyBlueGT
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#9

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

Seems beyond stupid for such a complex and important part of the game not having a tutorial. That's a big ass fail on Rockstar.

FRAIZER
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#10

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

LOL! A tutorial video??? It's a simplified version of a real stock market. There is no reason for a how to video. Buy low, sell high, only on GTAV, you get insider trading information and manipulate it by killing CEOs. And If you pay attention, you are told how to use it, jeez.

If you know what to look for, you can make tons of money. I doubled my money over the weekend, making 50 million Dollars. in 3 days.
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wannaslide
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#11

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

It makes me sad to see people saying single player is just a taste of the "real game" online :( . Anyways I've failed so much with this stock market, I would have rather they put some gambling in, instead of stocks. This is a crime game, maybe after the main story they could have given us a heist system where we could plan our own bank jobs out of the story, or drug dealing from ctw, because it's a crime game, not be legit Wall Street!!!
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Crapnaut
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#12

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:29 AM

Guys.. do you need a video tut to learn how to escape from the police? No.. you learn by doing.. same is the stock market.. just like the whole game.. explore.. learn, improve.... And I like the way they introduced it by the lester missions. Well true.. if you want to max out your profits then I agree its necessary to read here before... 

BUt true is I'm missing some features for the stock market to make it saver to use. Better graphs, some stop loss function and.. most important i think: trade the stocks in your iFruit App on the mobile phone ( your real one).


Kabuki777
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#13

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:33 AM Edited by Kabuki777, 30 September 2013 - 10:34 AM.

I have to applaud Rockstar for their attempt to give this game a much more realistic feel to it. Including the ability to play the Stock Market.
 
But I think they failed at two things here.
 
1.) Giving people a real tutorial on how to use the Stock Market and what to look for.
 
2.) Gauging whether this would be useful to the average player.
 
The result is a prime example of when a video game tries too hard to be realistic. It loses that sense of fun and becomes a task not a challenge.
 
The average person does not play the stock market in real life..Nor do they know the basics. Sure most people know of the concept of buying low spending high but they dont understand how people are able to predict what will go back up after dropping so low. Or what even effects that in the first place.
 
So even in a very watered down version of the stock market. Youre introducing a system that most people are instantly turned off by because of the real life counterpart being viewed as so difficult.
 
Throw in the fact that the game simply gives you the stocks to invest in and tells you when to sell. It fails to show you how to do this on your own without the game guiding you.
 
And without the Guide or replaying the game after the first time running through the assassination missions and taking down notes of where to invest. Most people wont have a chance to invest with all three characters. I know that the first time I went through was without the Guide or any useful information here on the site. So even as Franklin I missed out on a few opportunities to invest because once the mission started...Things went a little too fast for me to slow down and play the stock market.
 
Then theres the confusing fact that theres two different stock markets you can invest in. One is internal and the other is influenced by everyones stats. But the one influenced by stats is all over the place and difficult to predict...Or even know why things are going the way they are. We have no idea if its solely stats influencing it or if Rockstar themselves are manipulating it...Or if its even working properly for that matter.
 
I know Rockstar is datamining us and Id be very interested in seeing the numbers on how many are actually actively playing the stock markets trying to get their characters rich enough to buy up the properties and do as they please. Compared to who put little to no effort into it.
 
Personally I think its a failed attempt at the realism factor. They tried to introduce something new to the method of bringing in money. And without a serious tutorial or a playerbase that was invested in this feature. I really dont see this being used by the majority and most players will never see the billions of dollars youre supposedly able to make off the stock market.
 
After the end of the gameplay. Its pretty obvious that the only way to make the money needed to own all the properties and vehicles was to play the stock market. Id go as far as saying the stock market at the end of it all is more important then the heists as the stock market reels in 100 to 300% more profits then a heist.
 
 
Again I applaud the attempt. But being someone that bought this game for the sake of committing crimes in a video game. I just dont see the gritty side of Stock Markets like I do heists or stealing cars. For me the fun is in becoming this criminal and doing outrageous things a normal person wouldnt do or be able to get away with. I feel slightly disappointed that the method of making a lot of money falls into a very real world game of risk.

If u dont like the stock market dont use it.

That wasn't the point of the thread, I don't use it but something is being pointed out here. It's an interesting read.

Dodger27
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#14

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:35 AM

A well put debate guys, as my game seems to be short on any missions at the moment, (bugmaybe) played all week end no missions story line. I was waiting to invest all 3 guys dosh on the market, with a bit of insider dealing I new a guy will want a lift to the airport and would give me details where to invest. SO when he tells me , as he's getting out the car I only caught a name begining with T, so Looking at the markets theres only 1 begining with a T, so i invest all One Million, of trevs money, and £500.000 of the other 2 guys. ONLY TO RELISE just now,  theres to stock markets. I have made the wrong invest ment.  lol so tonight i will find an earler save, I think the market is a good idear, but your all right in what you say. I took Trevors £500.000 up to the Million by the sub Nuk waste job.  Great game love it.


Phyxsius-
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#15

Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:27 AM Edited by Phyxsius-, 30 September 2013 - 11:30 AM.

I will have the money I earned by myself. I won`t touch the stock market. However, if someone can make money off the stock market, good for them. One doesn`t exclude the other and if they (Rockstar) serve sh*t on a platter it isn`t mandatory to eat said sh*t from the platter...

 

For the ones that didn`t get it: Don`t like it, don`t use it...


Ninjambie
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#16

Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:46 AM Edited by Ninjambie, 30 September 2013 - 11:50 AM.

I will have the money I earned by myself. I won`t touch the stock market. However, if someone can make money off the stock market, good for them. One doesn`t exclude the other and if they (Rockstar) serve sh*t on a platter it isn`t mandatory to eat said sh*t from the platter...

 

For the ones that didn`t get it: Don`t like it, don`t use it...

The OP wasn't saying that he doesn't like it. It's obvious that you and the other guy are the ones "that didn't get it."

 

On topic: I could care less about the SP stock market. When Online releases I'll try my hand at that.

 

Also, like someone above stated. This is a game, and always has been, about performing criminal activities to make money. With the addition of the stock market it almost makes criminal activity and heist pointless if I want to make large amounts of money. I can literally just sit there doing nothing and make money. Wait, what?


TheAdmiester
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#17

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:11 PM

That failed? It works perfectly. For the LCN network, but low and sell high. When the current value is near the stock's lowest price, buy in bulk.

For BAWSAQ, just make sure to be a part of the mass stock inflations when they occur.

 

Nothing broken about it.


Budweizer100
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#18

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:12 PM

Firstly, I dont think it failed at all.  The basic principles are there and money can be made or lost.  Sure you aren't charged for buying stocks so you can, without consequence, buy and sell frequently, which you wouldn't do as easily in the real world.  But the psycology and mechanics are all there due to the BAWSAQ side of the market, utilising external influences.  I think it's great. 

 

The other thing people maybe aren't realising is that this ability to make huge amounts of money actually allow R* to use realistic values for everything else in the game and provide a natural and realistic wealth curve.  At the start of the game, you may strugle to may for a haircut until you rob someone, a suit until you've done a few jobs and a car until you've done some serious money making.  Theses things are all pretty realistically priced and so if that was the way of it, you would never be able to buy all of these extravegant properties in GTA unless you had LOADS of money.  The stock market allows you to find that wealth without there being more heists, which R* couldn't or decided not to add in.

 

It's a great idea and I'm glad they put it in.  I can't wait to see how it's affected when GTA:O starts up!


philcl
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#19

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:22 PM

RE: BAWSAQ - Everyone is surmising that this is the "online" one that is determined by players stats.

 

But anyone who has done Lester's first mission will know that he tells you to invest in BETTAPHARMACEUTICALS. Which can only be found on BAWSAQ. Once you invest and do the mission, then that stock goes up by c. 80%.

 

If that stock was linked to the internet then it would be bouncing around all over the place - and your action within your particular game would be so insignificant that it wouldn't create this direct effect

 

So maybe the Bawsaq for now is literally just another market, like the New York SE vs London SE?

 

Phil


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#20

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:41 PM Edited by Phyxsius-, 30 September 2013 - 12:53 PM.

 

I will have the money I earned by myself. I won`t touch the stock market. However, if someone can make money off the stock market, good for them. One doesn`t exclude the other and if they (Rockstar) serve sh*t on a platter it isn`t mandatory to eat said sh*t from the platter...

 

For the ones that didn`t get it: Don`t like it, don`t use it...

The OP wasn't saying that he doesn't like it. It's obvious that you and the other guy are the ones "that didn't get it."

 

On topic: I could care less about the SP stock market. When Online releases I'll try my hand at that.

 

Also, like someone above stated. This is a game, and always has been, about performing criminal activities to make money. With the addition of the stock market it almost makes criminal activity and heist pointless if I want to make large amounts of money. I can literally just sit there doing nothing and make money. Wait, what?

 

You have several choices of making money. Most of them imply shooting other people, or, how you say it, "performing criminal activities". Nobody is putting a gun to your head to gamble on the stock market, or use it to begin with.

 

So, if you want to perform criminal activities, why does it matter if there is a stock market or not? And since we established that we don`t give a damn... why would it matter if it`s realistic or not, or tampered by Rockstar, or adds realism to the game or not? 

 

"I can`t miss something I never had" - can be translated as: if you are decided to not take part in the stock market, why would it matter that it is there to begin with?

_____________________________

 

[EDIT] Let`s suppose that, over a period of a week, 2 players can get the same amount of money from heists and deathmatch games. So, one of them is a PVE type of player, while the other is a PVP type of player. Why is it forbidden to have a third player that can make the same amount of money with a pen and paper? Why is it forbidden that each of the 3 players get their fun?


Crapnaut
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#21

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:59 PM Edited by Crapnaut, 30 September 2013 - 01:03 PM.

just one word about the crime game... consider inside businesses or when you know how to manipulate the markets to be the biggest crimes.. look at all those bankers.. playing with our money... so I see that stock market as a reference to all the stock brokers that earn a sh*tload of money but have darker channels ..

so ok, its not about stealing cars anymore.. just way bigger. 

Anyways I dont want to have to robb supermarkets and money transporters for half a year just to get some decent money.. so as this is fun in the beginning of the game, money just does not play any bigger role once you finished the missions. Even with 35 Mills you have a lot of possibilities and never have to do any small heist anymore.. so then trying to get the bigger jackpot is just another way to keep the fun in the game. 

 

 

Oh and talking about BAWSEQ..

maybe not ALL Stocks in that category are totally relying on online-activities. There coudl still be a game mechanic that it looks at the current stockprice for Betta and then just indiviually alters the value for you. Or betta is not referenced to online at all, even positioned in the bawseq.

I guess they put it there so the player learns there is not only one market available!


Ninjambie
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#22

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

You have several choices of making money. Most of them imply shooting other people, or, how you say it, "performing criminal activities". Nobody is putting a gun to your head to gamble on the stock market, or use it to begin with.

 

So, if you want to perform criminal activities, why does it matter if there is a stock market or not? And since we established that we don`t give a damn... why would it matter if it`s realistic or not, or tampered by Rockstar, or adds realism to the game or not? 

 

"I can`t miss something I never had" - can be translated as: if you are decided to not take part in the stock market, why would it matter that it is there to begin with?

_____________________________

 

[EDIT] Let`s suppose that, over a period of a week, 2 players can get the same amount of money from heists and deathmatch games. So, one of them is a PVE type of player, while the other is a PVP type of player. Why is it forbidden to have a third player that can make the same amount of money with a pen and paper? Why is it forbidden that each of the 3 players get their fun?

 

All I see is why why why. WHY... is this getting to you so much?


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#23

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:13 PM Edited by Phyxsius-, 30 September 2013 - 01:15 PM.

All I see is why why why. WHY... is this getting to you so much?

 

 

Say what? All I am seeing is "everyone is wrong if they don`t play the game like I do". At least I have the common courtesy to respect other player`s choices.


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#24

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

The market in GTA V is more a failed parody than anything else. Solely implemented to suit Lester's Assassination missions, which are really as basic at it gets; Kill CEO of black, white stock will rise exponentially. It's a missed opportunity, they could have very well satirised FX, CFD just to name a few. Like I said, a missed opportunity.


Ninjambie
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#25

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:34 PM

 

All I see is why why why. WHY... is this getting to you so much?

 

 

Say what? All I am seeing is "everyone is wrong if they don`t play the game like I do". At least I have the common courtesy to respect other player`s choices.

 

I don't think that's what everyone is saying.

 

From my POV in regards to making money in-game, the stock market is taking away from actual game play. While the people who play the game and alter the stocks in the stock markets, others will be sitting back doing nothing and exploiting it.

 

True, everyone has their own version of what is fun for them and i'm not knocking anyone for their choices and opinions. All i'm saying is, that's not what money making in GTA was about. In all reality the stock market is hurting game play IMO.


chainsoar
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#26

Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:20 PM

...you all realise that the real world stock market doesn't shoot up and down like a rollercoaster on speed? Right? What I'm hearing is a lot of "oh no, stock values change very slowly for the most part, that's a fail" which basically reads to me like "oh no, it works a lot like real life stocks, that's a fail"


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#27

Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:45 PM Edited by ThePotentOne, 30 September 2013 - 02:49 PM.

The stock market works fine. It just gets boring when you use it too much. Before I start using it I save the game. I buy 1 stock to see if the prices are going up or down. Once that stock starts going up I reload the game & put a heap of money into that stock I've been watching. Then every time the stock goes up, you save the game so if it goes down you can reload the game to when it was highest. Don't always reload if the stock goes down, because it sometimes goes up even more after doing this.

 

With 25 million dollars, the highest profit I've made is around 100-150k.


Enteum
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#28

Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

I think the the Stock Market is great. Have you noticed what it is doing to the community? People are actually working together here to earn as much as possible. That is a great thing for the gta community. BAWSAQ is bringing people together. Stocks are trending and people are informing others on what to buy into.

I love it when people come together like that.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when online is patched in.

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#29

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:22 PM

Wow some sense of entitlement? Rockstar is a leading pioneer of the gaming world. How about showing some understanding instead of crying about virtual losses and missed opportunities. This is the first time they've done this, do you know how much balls it takes to try something new and to even attempt at implementing something this ambitious into a game for their legions of super high standard gamers?

 

Success is on the other side of failure, Let's not discount how much work this game took to produce and deliver to the public and how much intricate detail has been put it to the vast world that our prev gen systems can't even keep up with. 

 

Has Online even launched yet? Have you attempted to even try to figure out the R* Stock Market? I don't know about you but I see several threads around these forums of people TRYING to figure out the market by working together collectively via trial and error. Stop feeling so entitled and expecting things to be thrown in your lap. Appreciate this wonderful game, like I'm sure you do. It is a work in progress and for them to deliver something so huge and and ambitious I think they did a wonderful job.

 

I don't usually get this mad on the forums, but a sense of entitlement is the one thing that annoys me to no end. You have to work for what you want. Take the time to learn. You win some you lose some. These are rules of life.


Phyxsius-
  • Phyxsius-

    Just lil me

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  • Joined: 28 Aug 2013

#30

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:40 PM Edited by Phyxsius-, 30 September 2013 - 04:40 PM.



 


I don't think that's what everyone is saying.


 

 

From my POV in regards to making money in-game, the stock market is taking away from actual game play. While the people who play the game and alter the stocks in the stock markets, others will be sitting back doing nothing and exploiting it.

 

True, everyone has their own version of what is fun for them and i'm not knocking anyone for their choices and opinions. All i'm saying is, that's not what money making in GTA was about. In all reality the stock market is hurting game play IMO.

 

 

Hurting game play to whom? How is it hurting my gameplay and the pay I get from a stick up of a liquor store, or a future heist?





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