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Coming Soon - A Potential GTAForums Insider Trading Hub

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WildTurkeyMcGee
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#61

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:37 PM Edited by WildTurkeyMcGee, 29 September 2013 - 01:38 PM.

 

So this is only going to be for single player? I ask because as someone else mentioned, R* has stated that they will work as the "government" in GTAO and will take actions to prevent people from manipulating/abusing the system. If anything, this whole initiative could potentially make R* limit the natural rise and fall of stocks.


What's the point of having a stock market if we can't manipulate it?

 

There is a difference between the natural manipulation that would occur in game, such as blowing up cars, buying weapons, etc and a large scale and focused "attacks" on the market by a big group of players. The point of the stock market could be to provide an extra form of income at a risk. For people to be able to manipulate the market to make money without risk, would simply be game breaking. R* are looking to create a healthy economy here, and having a large group of people able to manipulate things to such a degree would be ridiculous. Despite all the wonderful planning and organization you guys have done, your foresight is lacking.


Causton97
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#62

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

What's the point of having a stock market if we can't manipulate it?

 

We will be manipulating it, but we won't be putting in millions. This has to be balanced and fair for everyone playing online. I refuse to be held accountable for organizing mass sell-offs that will potentially result in a LOT of people getting huge amounts of money and having completely 'tricked out' vehicles with max armour and extremely powerful weapons early on in the life cycle of GTA Online. I don't want to run the risk of getting potentially banned and I'm sure nobody else on this forum does too. We're going to be smart. We'll play the system, but we won't get greedy. If we do, I'll simply just end this whole project at a moment's notice. 

 

I don't want to negatively impact the game. It should remain a challenge and performing missions should be the real way to earn money, not purely by manipulating the stock market. Anyone who wants to be greedy with this can stay the hell away from this thread. That's all I have to say on the matter.


Causton97
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#63

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:44 PM


There is a difference between the natural manipulation that would occur in game, such as blowing up cars, buying weapons, etc and a large scale and focused "attacks" on the market by a big group of players. The point of the stock market could be to provide an extra form of income at a risk. For people to be able to manipulate the market to make money without risk, would simply be game breaking. R* are looking to create a healthy economy here, and having a large group of people able to manipulate things to such a degree would be ridiculous. Despite all the wonderful planning and organization you guys have done, your foresight is lacking.So this is only going to be for single player? I ask because as someone else mentioned, R* has stated that they will work as the "government" in GTAO and will take actions to prevent people from manipulating/abusing the system. If anything, this whole initiative could potentially make R* limit the natural rise and fall of stock

 

Which is exactly why I'm limiting the amount of money we'll invest in any planned sell-off's. Any attacks will be orchestrated in a way that won't cause a huge impact. Balancing is the key here. I'm all for promoting fairness in any online game. I hate it when people have a clear advantage and have used an exploit to achieve it. This could be viewed as an exploit, so I'm asking that we don't exploit it to it's fullest. 


TimFL
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#64

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:47 PM Edited by TimFL, 29 September 2013 - 01:48 PM.

What makes you think you are in control of this project? I mean you might have started it on SC etc. but you can in no way monitor and control other users taking part. Saying you'll end it when people invest millions in GTA:O will result in someone else taking your place/the project simply being continued by the others investing millions. I'll invest small amounts in online to check the system out but I can't speak for everybody. Greed will always be a factor and I can already assure you that most of the users in the project will surely go the greed road and use the project as a "bulletproof way" of making millions. Not everyone looks at it as "science" or a way of finding out how it works, most will probably only look at it as a means of making money.

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WildTurkeyMcGee
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#65

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:49 PM Edited by WildTurkeyMcGee, 29 September 2013 - 01:51 PM.

 

What's the point of having a stock market if we can't manipulate it?

 

We will be manipulating it, but we won't be putting in millions. This has to be balanced and fair for everyone playing online. I refuse to be held accountable for organizing mass sell-offs that will potentially result in a LOT of people getting huge amounts of money and having completely 'tricked out' vehicles with max armour and extremely powerful weapons early on in the life cycle of GTA Online. I don't want to run the risk of getting potentially banned and I'm sure nobody else on this forum does too. We're going to be smart. We'll play the system, but we won't get greedy. If we do, I'll simply just end this whole project at a moment's notice. 

 

I don't want to negatively impact the game. It should remain a challenge and performing missions should be the real way to earn money, not purely by manipulating the stock market. Anyone who wants to be greedy with this can stay the hell away from this thread. That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

You have to know that because this is being organized on GTAF that many guilds will piggy back off of your "fair trading" and wont follow the same noble sentiment as you. This also goes for individuals as well. You could very well be stating the limits and bounds that you intend to follow, but the majority of these people are simple gamers who will see a chance to make a killing and wont just invest 10,000 or w/e. This initiative will be abused, regardless of whether that's your intention or not. I understand that some of you are legitimately interested in this for the shear fact of it being a really interesting feature, but dont be so nieve to think that the majority of people who follow this aren't in it purely for making as much money as possible.


SixthGeared
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#66

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:56 PM

Request sent. Completely excited. I needed a crew either way, so having one that is already proven to work together is great!


igrvks
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#67

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:58 PM

Damn straight, my first goal in GTAO will be turning 1 million dollars into pocket change.

Causton97
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#68

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:05 PM Edited by Causton97, 29 September 2013 - 02:06 PM.

 

 

What's the point of having a stock market if we can't manipulate it?

 

We will be manipulating it, but we won't be putting in millions. This has to be balanced and fair for everyone playing online. I refuse to be held accountable for organizing mass sell-offs that will potentially result in a LOT of people getting huge amounts of money and having completely 'tricked out' vehicles with max armour and extremely powerful weapons early on in the life cycle of GTA Online. I don't want to run the risk of getting potentially banned and I'm sure nobody else on this forum does too. We're going to be smart. We'll play the system, but we won't get greedy. If we do, I'll simply just end this whole project at a moment's notice. 

 

I don't want to negatively impact the game. It should remain a challenge and performing missions should be the real way to earn money, not purely by manipulating the stock market. Anyone who wants to be greedy with this can stay the hell away from this thread. That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

You have to know that because this is being organized on GTAF that many guilds will piggy back off of your "fair trading" and wont follow the same noble sentiment as you. This also goes for individuals as well. You could very well be stating the limits and bounds that you intend to follow, but the majority of these people are simple gamers who will see a chance to make a killing and wont just invest 10,000 or w/e. This initiative will be abused, regardless of whether that's your intention or not. I understand that some of you are legitimately interested in this for the shear fact of it being a really interesting feature, but dont be so nieve to think that the majority of people who follow this aren't in it purely for making as much money as possible.

 

 

I know, which is why I've updated the OP concerning this. If anyone doesn't comply, they won't be allowed to participate in this project. I've laid down the ground rules. It's up to others to follow them. They have one chance. If they don't adhere to the rules, they leave. I would love for the finished thread to be given a password that can be changed at my discretion so that people can't just follow this and break the rules. I can then get PM's sent out to everyone who's involved. I'm prepared to message every user individually if need be. Sure, other groups might 'piggy back' from this, but I doubt they'll have anything as structured or comprehensive as this. Especially if, as you say, they're just 'simple gamers'. :p


Kalikid707
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#69

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:08 PM

Hey everyone, I'm very happy to announce that the GTAF Inside Trading Crew is now open for business! In order to prevent a huge influx of people joining and causing it to max out on members, it is currently invite only. Send us a request to join and we'll get you added right away!

Management team members will take priority here. Due to the hierarchy system of crews, I'll also need to determine which 2 other members will become Commissioners. Aside from promotion/demotion and being able to recruit new members, the maim advantage of this is that it will give you the power to edit the crew emblem. I'll need the more creative members of the team in this role.

If you want to join the crew, please click the following link: http://socialclub.ro..._inside_traders

Sent you a request, the name has 707 in it as well.


TimFL
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#70

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:10 PM

I think you can't password threads on IP.Board


Causton97
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#71

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:17 PM Edited by Causton97, 29 September 2013 - 02:24 PM.

What makes you think you are in control of this project? I mean you might have started it on SC etc. but you can in no way monitor and control other users taking part. Saying you'll end it when people invest millions in GTA:O will result in someone else taking your place/the project simply being continued by the others investing millions. I'll invest small amounts in online to check the system out but I can't speak for everybody. Greed will always be a factor and I can already assure you that most of the users in the project will surely go the greed road and use the project as a "bulletproof way" of making millions. Not everyone looks at it as "science" or a way of finding out how it works, most will probably only look at it as a means of making money.

 

I know, which makes it very frustrating. I'll have to remain as the leader whatever happens... but at least I've made my intentions clear for how I would like this to be operate. I realise people will go against what I'm proposing, so this is where I have to put faith in Rockstar to make changes where they're necessary. Perhaps slowing the rate of increase would be a good idea? It's up to them at the end of the day. More than anything else, I don't want to experience repercussions as a result of starting this whole project up. Anyone in the world can look at this and the first thing they'll see when they click on the finished hub thread is my warning. They can choose to disregard it, but I think it'll be pretty clear to Rockstar from their own data as to who's investing in a way that's greedy. I leave the decision to punish those people up to them. 

 

Just let me say this one last time - What they choose to do, they do of their own choice. Not in the name of Causton97 or anyone that is following the rules of this project.


WildTurkeyMcGee
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#72

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:18 PM Edited by WildTurkeyMcGee, 29 September 2013 - 02:29 PM.

 

 

 

What's the point of having a stock market if we can't manipulate it?

 

We will be manipulating it, but we won't be putting in millions. This has to be balanced and fair for everyone playing online. I refuse to be held accountable for organizing mass sell-offs that will potentially result in a LOT of people getting huge amounts of money and having completely 'tricked out' vehicles with max armour and extremely powerful weapons early on in the life cycle of GTA Online. I don't want to run the risk of getting potentially banned and I'm sure nobody else on this forum does too. We're going to be smart. We'll play the system, but we won't get greedy. If we do, I'll simply just end this whole project at a moment's notice. 

 

I don't want to negatively impact the game. It should remain a challenge and performing missions should be the real way to earn money, not purely by manipulating the stock market. Anyone who wants to be greedy with this can stay the hell away from this thread. That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

You have to know that because this is being organized on GTAF that many guilds will piggy back off of your "fair trading" and wont follow the same noble sentiment as you. This also goes for individuals as well. You could very well be stating the limits and bounds that you intend to follow, but the majority of these people are simple gamers who will see a chance to make a killing and wont just invest 10,000 or w/e. This initiative will be abused, regardless of whether that's your intention or not. I understand that some of you are legitimately interested in this for the shear fact of it being a really interesting feature, but dont be so nieve to think that the majority of people who follow this aren't in it purely for making as much money as possible.

 

 

I know, which is why I've updated the OP concerning this. If anyone doesn't comply, they won't be allowed to participate in this project. I've laid down the ground rules. It's up to others to follow them. They have one chance. If they don't adhere to the rules, they leave. I would love for the finished thread to be given a password that can be changed at my discretion so that people can't just follow this and break the rules. I can then get PM's sent out to everyone who's involved. I'm prepared to message every user individually if need be. Sure, other groups might 'piggy back' from this, but I doubt they'll have anything as structured or comprehensive as this. Especially if, as you say, they're just 'simple gamers'. :p

 

As far as I know, you have no way of monitoring whether or not people are adhering to your rules. Most people will just say they are investing x when they are really investing Y. If you did have a way to monitor what people are investing then guilds would just set up a mule in your crew, who followed your rules, but gave the insider information to their crew to be used as they wish. When I say "piggy back" I mean that they will follow all the trends that you are detailing, but then invest with their own discretion. 

 

As for your disclaimer, it honestly means very little. This is the internet, people aren't going to head your warnings. Also, as a means of covering your ass, the disclaimer also doesn't work, because at the end of the day, this initiative (led by you on a public forum) is what would enable people to exploit heavily. This whole thread is about artificially manipulating the market and enabling the exploitation of the system. Regardless of pre imposed limitations on how much money you will make, the nature of this initiative is exploiting.


Causton97
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#73

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:22 PM

As far as I know, you have no way of monitoring whether or not people are adhering to your rules. Most people will just say they are investing x when they are really investing Y. If you did have a way to monitor what people are investing then guilds would just set up a mule in your crew, who followed your rules, but gave the insider information to their crew to be used as they wish. When I say "piggy back" I mean that they will follow all the trends that you are detailing, but then invest with their own discretion. 

This is why I'd love a password for the end product. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible on a forum. At least, I've never encountered it before. I'm sure (well I hope) there'll be some functionality through Rockstar social club to compare people's stock market portfolio's. That'd solve the problem of not being able to check. We'll also be able to see by looking at how much money they have. If it increases exponentially after a sell-off, then they've been going behind our backs. 

 

Rockstar are the ones in control at the end of the day, if they need to punish people, they can. I've made my intentions pretty damn clear. I'm not being held accountable for the actions of others. 


TimFL
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#74

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:26 PM

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.


Causton97
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#75

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:29 PM

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.

 

I'll keep the warning up for now... I'll just mention that it'll come into effect if a time comes where we need to make things become balanced.


Calavera999
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#76

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:30 PM Edited by Calavera999, 29 September 2013 - 02:33 PM.

 

What makes you think you are in control of this project? I mean you might have started it on SC etc. but you can in no way monitor and control other users taking part. Saying you'll end it when people invest millions in GTA:O will result in someone else taking your place/the project simply being continued by the others investing millions. I'll invest small amounts in online to check the system out but I can't speak for everybody. Greed will always be a factor and I can already assure you that most of the users in the project will surely go the greed road and use the project as a "bulletproof way" of making millions. Not everyone looks at it as "science" or a way of finding out how it works, most will probably only look at it as a means of making money.

 

I know, which makes it very frustrating. I'll have to remain as the leader whatever happens... but at least I've made my intentions clear for how I would like this to be operate. I realise people will go against what I'm proposing, so this is where I have to put faith in Rockstar to make changes where they're necessary. Perhaps slowing the rate of increase would be a good idea? It's up to them at the end of the day. More than anything else, I don't want to experience repercussions as a result of starting this whole project up. Anyone in the world can look at this and the first thing they'll see when they click on the finished hub thread is my warning. They can choose to disregard it, but I think it'll be pretty clear to Rockstar from their own data as to who's investing in a way that's greedy. I leave the decision to punish those people up to them. 

 

Just let me say this one last time - What they choose to do, they do of their own choice. Not in the name of Causton97 or anyone that is following the rules of this project.

 

 

But you just said you would close it at a moments notice, if people used this project to gain unfair advantages? Now you say it's just not your responsibility if they do so because you left a disclaimer.

 

Let me just quote a post on this thread by igrvks - "Damn straight, my first goal in GTAO will be turning 1 million dollars into pocket change."

 

If this does work, which i honestly don't think it will, you're going to cause lots of people to be exploiting the game on release. It happens on all games with a market and unfortunately it starts with threads like this.


TimFL
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#77

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

 

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.

 

I'll keep the warning up for now... I'll just mention that it'll come into effect if a time comes where we need to make things become balanced.

 

It's not up to you to create a balance, it's up to R*. You are just a normal player who took the step to create a structured group, you have no GTA Online moderator permissions or anything else at your disposal to stop anyone from breaking the rules as you have no way to check their profits (you can hide gameplay related information on SC, but I don't think BAWSAQ is public at all). Enforcing something like posting screens of your portfolio would only encourage people to stop participating / creating spin-off groups/projects.

Let it go man.

 

Just my honest opinion, I have experience with structured groups on games where you have no way of controlling anything. It never ends well to enforce rules for stuff that shouldn't be of the groups concern anyways.


Causton97
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#78

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:41 PM Edited by Causton97, 29 September 2013 - 02:41 PM.

 

 

What makes you think you are in control of this project? I mean you might have started it on SC etc. but you can in no way monitor and control other users taking part. Saying you'll end it when people invest millions in GTA:O will result in someone else taking your place/the project simply being continued by the others investing millions. I'll invest small amounts in online to check the system out but I can't speak for everybody. Greed will always be a factor and I can already assure you that most of the users in the project will surely go the greed road and use the project as a "bulletproof way" of making millions. Not everyone looks at it as "science" or a way of finding out how it works, most will probably only look at it as a means of making money.

 

I know, which makes it very frustrating. I'll have to remain as the leader whatever happens... but at least I've made my intentions clear for how I would like this to be operate. I realise people will go against what I'm proposing, so this is where I have to put faith in Rockstar to make changes where they're necessary. Perhaps slowing the rate of increase would be a good idea? It's up to them at the end of the day. More than anything else, I don't want to experience repercussions as a result of starting this whole project up. Anyone in the world can look at this and the first thing they'll see when they click on the finished hub thread is my warning. They can choose to disregard it, but I think it'll be pretty clear to Rockstar from their own data as to who's investing in a way that's greedy. I leave the decision to punish those people up to them. 

 

Just let me say this one last time - What they choose to do, they do of their own choice. Not in the name of Causton97 or anyone that is following the rules of this project.

 

 

But you just said you would close it at a moments notice, if people used this project to gain unfair advantages? Now you say it's just not your responsibility if they do so because you left a disclaimer.

 

Let me just quote a post on this thread by igrvks - "Damn straight, my first goal in GTAO will be turning 1 million dollars into pocket change."

 

If this does work, which i honestly don't think it will, you're going to cause lots of people to be exploiting the game on release. It happens on all games with a market and unfortunately it starts with threads like this.

 

 

Ok let me just clarify this. While I've left a disclaimer stating that the actions of others aren't my problem, I have taken steps to try to ensure that other people are considerate of others. While their actions in-game aren't my problem, their actions when representing this project are. I don't want this shut down or for myself to be banned because of this project.

 

I'm literally torn right now over how to deal with this. Call it a sign of bad leadership or whatever you want, but I think you'll agree it's a tricky situation. I have you telling me to balance this out and Tim is telling me it's up to Rockstar. I just want to promote fairness for everyone!

 

For now at least, I have created a warning in the OP stating that these rules will only be enforced for the first 6 months. This is because there will be more and more low level players entering the game in the first few months following the release of GTAO. I've also considered Christmas and how many new players will join when they get the game as a gift.

 

I think in the 3-4 months after Christmas, everyone will be on a relatively level playing field. As such, we can lift the self-imposed restrictions and go wild. Then Rockstar can really test things out. I don't want them to make changes that would negatively affect everyone as a result of our actions though.


WildTurkeyMcGee
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#79

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:47 PM Edited by WildTurkeyMcGee, 29 September 2013 - 02:57 PM.

 

 

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.

 

I'll keep the warning up for now... I'll just mention that it'll come into effect if a time comes where we need to make things become balanced.

 

It's not up to you to create a balance, it's up to R*. You are just a normal player who took the step to create a structured group, you have no GTA Online moderator permissions or anything else at your disposal to stop anyone from breaking the rules as you have no way to check their profits (you can hide gameplay related information on SC, but I don't think BAWSAQ is public at all). Enforcing something like posting screens of your portfolio would only encourage people to stop participating / creating spin-off groups/projects.

Let it go man.

 

Just my honest opinion, I have experience with structured groups on games where you have no way of controlling anything. It never ends well to enforce rules for stuff that shouldn't be of the groups concern anyways.

 

He's just a player taking steps to create a group who's sole goal is the manipulation and exploitation of the market for financial gain. Yes R* has said that money will be made quickly through missions, and that instant money would be available for purchase. They have also said that the stock market will be a risk. The entire goal of this group is to circumvent that risk through shear numbers and coordinated market attacks. When R* said they would act as the government to prevent people from taking advantage of the system, what do you think they where talking about? 

 

@Causton Your warnings and disclaimers don't mean anything man. People will simply say what you want to hear and carry on however they wish. You are creating a group to exploit the game. Even if everyone followed your rules, you're still circumventing the intended risk associated with the stock market through manipulation. Tim is right, it is up to R* to maintain balance and I would be extremely surprised if they didn't take action against this group if it is successful. 


TimFL
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#80

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:51 PM Edited by TimFL, 29 September 2013 - 02:55 PM.

 

 

 

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.

 

I'll keep the warning up for now... I'll just mention that it'll come into effect if a time comes where we need to make things become balanced.

 

It's not up to you to create a balance, it's up to R*. You are just a normal player who took the step to create a structured group, you have no GTA Online moderator permissions or anything else at your disposal to stop anyone from breaking the rules as you have no way to check their profits (you can hide gameplay related information on SC, but I don't think BAWSAQ is public at all). Enforcing something like posting screens of your portfolio would only encourage people to stop participating / creating spin-off groups/projects.

Let it go man.

 

Just my honest opinion, I have experience with structured groups on games where you have no way of controlling anything. It never ends well to enforce rules for stuff that shouldn't be of the groups concern anyways.

 

He's just a player taking steps to create a group who's sole goal is the manipulation and exploitation of the market for financial gain. Yes R* has said that money will be made quickly through missions, and that instant money would be available for purchase. They have also said that the stock market will be a risk. The entire goal of this group is to circumvent that risk through shear numbers and coordinated market attacks. When R* said they would act as the government to prevent people from taking advantage of the system, what do you think they where talking about? 

 

I'm sure they wont ban anyone for doing it. The most extreme thing I see them doing is crash the prices or simply adding a soft lock to prices so they don't rise anymore. One of the official blog posts even talked about manipulating the stock market ( and they even talked about it in several interviews). This is "sadly" part of the game, I don't see them preventing it that much or punishing players for doing it.


SteaVor
  • SteaVor

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#81

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

Causton, don't worry. Nobody will ban you or hold you accountable for taking responsiblity for organizing ways to experiment with one of the many game mechanics that are supposed to earn you money in GTA:O.

 

If single players are indeed able to exploit the market as much as some people here fear, it's up to R* to fix it and/or punish the player if he really used a loophole / exploit.

 

Everything YOU announced / proposed seems to be well within the confines of the game R* laid out for us to play with - that's how I see it.

  • TimFL likes this

Causton97
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#82

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:54 PM

He's just a player taking steps to create a group who's sole goal is the manipulation and exploitation of the market for financial gain. Yes R* has said that money will be made quickly through missions, and that instant money would be available for purchase. They have also said that the stock market will be a risk. The entire goal of this group is to circumvent that risk through shear numbers and coordinated market attacks. When R* said they would act as the government to prevent people from taking advantage of the system, what do you think they where talking about? 

 

At the end of the day, I want to make things as fair as possible for everyone playing the game. I also want to ensure that I don't suffer from anyone's actions in any way. Rockstar have intended for inside trading groups to be created, that much is for sure. They intend for the market to be affected by coordinated attacks. I realise that limiting the amount of money we're going to make isn't a popular idea, but in my eyes, it's the best possible way to protect everyone involved in this project.

 

I'm open to suggestions if you have a better idea. I'm just trying to safeguard those who will abide by the rules that I've put in place. I'll remove them at a moment's notice if we can come to a conclusion that makes sense. If I could discuss this with a R* rep, I'd feel much more comfortable about this. Obviously that won't happen. They might look at this forum, but they certainly don't make themselves known. 


SteaVor
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#83

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

 

 

 

 

I also don't think anything is going to happen to the players earning millions from stocks. R* even said that if you have a lot of money early on (like if you buy a lot of cash cards) you wont be able to abuse anything/wont have an advantage over others due to most things being restricted to a certain level.

 

 

I mean if they don't want us to earn millions, we wont earn millions. They clearly want us to earn money and they even said it'll be a lot quicker than SP (you earn money quicker in Online due to being able to repeat missions etc).

 

My honest opinion: Creating a limit for investemts in this project is a bad idea, Rockstar clearly said that they'll monitor the stock market and then step in if it doesn't work out the way they imagined it would. It would actually make more sense if there was no limit because then R* could find potential loopholes / issues in the stock market system easier/faster and in return act a lot quicker.

 

I'll keep the warning up for now... I'll just mention that it'll come into effect if a time comes where we need to make things become balanced.

 

It's not up to you to create a balance, it's up to R*. You are just a normal player who took the step to create a structured group, you have no GTA Online moderator permissions or anything else at your disposal to stop anyone from breaking the rules as you have no way to check their profits (you can hide gameplay related information on SC, but I don't think BAWSAQ is public at all). Enforcing something like posting screens of your portfolio would only encourage people to stop participating / creating spin-off groups/projects.

Let it go man.

 

Just my honest opinion, I have experience with structured groups on games where you have no way of controlling anything. It never ends well to enforce rules for stuff that shouldn't be of the groups concern anyways.

 

He's just a player taking steps to create a group who's sole goal is the manipulation and exploitation of the market for financial gain. Yes R* has said that money will be made quickly through missions, and that instant money would be available for purchase. They have also said that the stock market will be a risk. The entire goal of this group is to circumvent that risk through shear numbers and coordinated market attacks. When R* said they would act as the government to prevent people from taking advantage of the system, what do you think they where talking about? 

 

I'm sure they wont ban anyone for doing it. The most extreme thing I see them doing is crash the prices or simply adding a soft lock to prices so they don't rise anymore. One of the official blog posts even talked about manipulating the stock market ( and they even talked about it in several interviews). This is "sadly" part of the game, I don't see them preventing it that much or punishing players from doing it.

 

 

Why "sadly"? It's just one of the many game mechanics, and like all content, entirely under the control of R* if single players or coordinated groups such as this really destroy the balance. I really fail to see the problem with it.


Causton97
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#84

Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

Causton, don't worry. Nobody will ban you or hold you accountable for taking responsiblity for organizing ways to experiment with one of the many game mechanics that are supposed to earn you money in GTA:O.

 

If single players are indeed able to exploit the market as much as some people here fear, it's up to R* to fix it and/or punish the player if he really used a loophole / exploit.

 

Everything YOU announced / proposed seems to be well within the confines of the game R* laid out for us to play with - that's how I see it.

 

I'm glad you're supporting me on this. Thanks dude. If R* could clarify their stance on this, I'd know whether or not a restriction is needed. 

 

And to everyone posting in this thread, let's cut down on the quote pyramids, yeah? It's taking a long time to scroll past every reply! :p


TimFL
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#85

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:02 PM

 

Causton, don't worry. Nobody will ban you or hold you accountable for taking responsiblity for organizing ways to experiment with one of the many game mechanics that are supposed to earn you money in GTA:O.

 

If single players are indeed able to exploit the market as much as some people here fear, it's up to R* to fix it and/or punish the player if he really used a loophole / exploit.

 

Everything YOU announced / proposed seems to be well within the confines of the game R* laid out for us to play with - that's how I see it.

 

I'm glad you're supporting me on this. Thanks dude. If R* could clarify their stance on this, I'd know whether or not a restriction is needed. 

 

And to everyone posting in this thread, let's cut down on the quote pyramids, yeah? It's taking a long time to scroll past every reply! :p

 

I'm not bashing you or anything I just say it the way it'll most likely turn out to be. You (and probably me) will be one of the few who play by your rules. I'm not going to invest millions (I'll probably not be that active anyways) but there will surely be a big part of the project who use this as a way to make quick cash. And I'm perfectly fine with that because if R* doesn't want us to use the stock market in that way they'll surely tweak the market to prevent such coordinated attacks from happening. But since they advertised it as a way of making money, I don't see that happening (any time soon).

 

There is no need to protect the player base from earning too much money, R* stated several times that money has no use if your reputation level isn't high enough (you are limited to simple pistols in the begin, you unlock more weapons by leveling up).


Causton97
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#86

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

Ahh screw it! I'll get rid of the restriction. I'm so indecisive! :p

 

I'll make sure there's  a disclaimer in the OP though. Even though I doubt there will be anything, I refuse to suffer an negative backlash from this. Rockstar are in control. They can do whatever the hell they want to make sure things are fair. I'm not having this shut down though. I've put too much effort into it.


018361
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#87

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:08 PM

I think we should be sure how the money difference is on sp and online before set a solid amount of how much we can spend. I am also a bit sad that if we join in that we can only put in 50K. I wanted to do this to become rich in-game and not just to do it to say " We control the markets but get almost nothing out of it ". 50k will only bring in chump change and I am dreaming big. I understand that we need to be fair but under these circumstances I think we would all be better off playing it as individuals. Let's just wait for online and see how much the difference is with cars and guns and stuff before we make a specific amount concrete. Also, if you are getting worried that R* will act upon this then I am considering not being a part of it. I'm sure that they take an occasional look at these forums and if they see this and don't like it, then we are all screwed.  


Monkeyy
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#88

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:10 PM

I don't think anything we're doing can be considered exploiting, R* even said players could choose to go down the route of corporate espionage and insider trading IIRC. This how stock markets work and the whole reason it exists is to be taken advantage of. Let's remember this is a game where you can blow up your enemies trucks to increase your own stock profit. Take advantage. Make paper. Make bank.

That's how I see it anyways.

On another note I feel we should come up with the coolest crew name possible.


WildTurkeyMcGee
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#89

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:10 PM

Look, people who are looking to make money off this are going to support you to the ends of the earth if it means you keep this organized effort going. Furthermore, most of you are going to validate your actions with statements which every exploiter to ever live has said, lol. As someone mentioned earlier, every game with some sort of economy end up getting exploited heavily in the beginning, and it almost always starts with "good intentions" like these. 

 

As for no need to protect the player from earning too much money, lol. If you create a situation which allows easy, risk free access to money it will catch on like wildfire and don't you think that will effect the amount of people who pay real money for GTA$. Although R* has stated there wont be a pay wall, I'm sure they wont allow a situation where nobody had a need or desire to spend a few bucks here and there for GTA$.


TimFL
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#90

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

Ahh screw it! I'll get rid of the restriction. I'm so indecisive! :p

 

I'll make sure there's  a disclaimer in the OP though. Even though I doubt there will be anything, I refuse to suffer an negative backlash from this. Rockstar are in control. They can do whatever the hell they want to make sure things are fair. I'm not having this shut down though. I've put too much effort into it.

You could put a note saying that this project/group is purely for analysing the stock market in GTA V (trying to understand it better etc) and not meant to be used for earning money (which is kind of pointless because a lot of people will use it to earn money). Profit will be the inevitable side product but the group is purely for the sake of understanding the stock market.

We'll without a doubt make a lot of money by doing this but rest assure I wont break anything because when I decide to play I'll definitely only play in a private lobby/server with close friends (doing heists etc). The world wont even be bothered by me because I'll handle GTA:O as a SP/COOP game without ever entering a public lobby.

 

I'm out now see you guys later/tomorrow and keep monitoring the PIS stock for me 





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