Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

A Disrespectful Ending for a Character?

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
54 replies to this topic
karl36116
  • karl36116

    Player Hater

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 30 Sep 2013

#31

Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:54 PM

I bought this, only guide i know to pass all the missions http://bit.ly/1eV9zJH


PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#32

Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:00 AM

I think Franklin was their attempt to bury CJ once and for all and is the destruction of everything he (CJ) attempted to build. Grove Street isn't even a part of the "the families" anymore, gang culture isn't very big ... Ballas and "Chamberlin Hill Families," which is the gang Franklin allegedly belongs to, are pretty much on good term as far as you can go wherever without  people randomly shooting you like on San Andreas. Where CJ was so hard-pressed to fit in with his gang and earn his stripes, Franklin thinks the gang mentality is BS and is what's holding him back. CJ for awhile was unwilling to see that his friends were dragging him down and betraying him and felt bad about kiling Ryder even after he found out about "The Green Sabre" and their role in his mother's death. In contrast, Franklin caught on fairly quickly and was "over" his friend Lamar almost from the beginning. When the opportunity presented itself for Franklin to leave Lamar in the lurch, he would have done it if not for Tanisha, his ex. Franklin is CJ's exact opposite and, for this to be set in the same place as San Andreas, I think it was important for Rockstar to utilize him to emphasize that the San Andreas we knew in CJ's day no longer exists.

 

I don't think Franklin was boring, just that compared to Michael's "problems" and Trevor's, his struggles to get away from his neighborhood and make something of himself, paled in comparison. He was the true underdog though, and people always root for the underdog. 

  • viperdk and archiebunker like this

karl36116
  • karl36116

    Player Hater

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 30 Sep 2013

#33

Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:35 AM

i had to purchase this, could not find another guide to complete all the mission with ease http://bit.ly/1eV9zJH


ManOfDisguise
  • ManOfDisguise

    Punk-ass Bitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 25 Sep 2013

#34

Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

girls and their problems....


PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#35

Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:58 AM

Considering that a number of GTA fans of both genders shared my concerns, one would assume that this is a universal concern and not a one-sided gender issue but whatever floats your boat, young sir. Carry on. 


PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#36

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:09 AM

"Michael is a self-absorbed asshole"? Yeah, okay. So you're saying, through some deluded sense of honor, you'd rather die in that heist in North Yankton than do what is best for you and your family and take a fall? Michael isn't just a one-sided coin. Sure, at times, he's a prick. But the story is woven just that he's justified for the majority of his actions; he still feels some doubt at the end of the story. The only reason he takes a swing at Fabien doing 'yoga' with his wife, or the only reason he time and time again derails Tracey's career as a dime-a-dozen Vinewood starlet, wasn't just because he was a dickhead and just felt like doing it at the time, but because he wanted what was best for them. Michael realized that family was much more important than money, and did a deal with the FIB to get him out of "the game" and turn over a new leaf. Although this meant abandoning Trevor, Michael swallowed his pride and his near-limitless pursuit of money and did the right thing. It was only after Michael was drugged by his son for quote-unquote "being too f*cking crazy", and Amanda and the kids moving out did he realize that his M.O. was too drastic and taxing upon his family. After he mellowed out, then subsequently took a laptop to a yoga instructor's face and tattooed a dong on a celebrity's chest, Michael admitted he flew off the handle and apologized to his family, and took responsibility for his actions.

Michael isn't just another cardboard cutout of your stereotypical '80's action hero; he's just a family man with a dangerous past who only wants to do the right thing for his wife and kids.

 

In case you didn't notice, Michael arranged for them to be captured anyway ... he made a deal with the FBI guy who wasn't an FBI guy at the time to shoot him to make it look legit and in return for him setting up his crew, he would get to go start that life for his family ... why do you think the guy was there before the other cops arrived? He was waiting. 


Jako98146
  • Jako98146

    Crackhead

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2011

#37

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:23 AM

I was mostly just pissed because of how f*cking passive Johnny was being with Trevor.  He was all like, "I still love her man, I'm sorry"

And he was being sentimental about the girl who used him and cheated on him with Billy Grey and being sentimental to the guy who likes to kill bikers!

 

And of course it bothered me that he died like that, I'd expect a GTA protagonist like Johnny K to g out in a blaze of glory, not get hit in the head with a beer bottle and have his face smashed in by Trevor's boot.  For him to die like that after everything in TLAD is just sh*t to be honest.

 

As for the torture scene, I feel indifferent to it.  I didn't care about torturing an innocent, half of me playing GTA games is running down/killing fodder civilians who can be considered innocent.  It was actually kind of funny and satirical, the way he was willing to freely give the info, but kept getting tortured anyway for no reason.  It sends a message about torture in the real world when you look at it, saying that it shouldn't exist


Dr Kain
  • Dr Kain

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2012

#38

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:57 AM

Johnny was a dick and a worthless character to begin with.  Not to mention he was a biker, so living 5 years longer than he should have was a big achievement.  I am glad I got to see Trevor kill him and then I killed his bitch.  


RandomNoun
  • RandomNoun

    Li'l G Loc

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2012

#39

Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

There were plenty of characters from IV who died so very ... casually. It just seemed a bit ... weird.

 

Spoiler


Dr Kain
  • Dr Kain

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2012

#40

Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:56 PM

There were plenty of characters from IV who died so very ... casually. It just seemed a bit ... weird.

 

Spoiler

 

It seemed like real life scenarios.  You survive cancer just to die by getting hit by a bus.  You survive a plane crash in the desert only to die by falling onto a sewage pipe sticking out of the ground on the way to the store.  

 

It happens all of the time.  

 

I actually knew it was that guy from GTAIV the moment I saw him and then heard his voice.  Too bad that *****

Spoiler
was not with him, as I would have loved to have killed her too.  


viperdk
  • viperdk

    Vice City Mob Boss

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2006
  • None

#41

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:23 PM

I was pretty disapointed with the way Johnny was taken out. I'm probably in the minority, but I liked Johnny the best from the GTA IV games. He was more enjoyable to play then Luis.

 

But whomever at Rockstar deciding to turn him into a meth head, and act like a bitch at Trevor, only to get his ass handed to him...that wasn't right. Not the way for a tough biker dude to go out in life. He should have went down with guns a blazing.

 

Spoiler


mitchnorton
  • mitchnorton

    Fly High Pizza Pie

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2011

#42

Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:57 AM

Yeah I'd have to say that Johnny, for a protagonist, dies such a pointless and pathetic death. Come on, he's a GTA protagonist FFS, he can't die THAT easily.


caseclosedjk
  • caseclosedjk

    Forum Bastard

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2013

#43

Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:22 AM

I felt the same. It was awful. Why did they do that? Johnny, Terry, Clay and Ashley... Really Rockstar?


Dr Kain
  • Dr Kain

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2012

#44

Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

Spoiler

 

I didn't.  I was the one who capped his ass.  Well, I shot him in the head, not the ass.  


Technodiq
  • Technodiq

    Drink, feck, arse, girrrls!

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2012

#45

Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:59 PM

 haven't read all posts so forgive me if this has already been stated:

The reason Johnny was so casually taken out was to reinforce Trevors craziness. It's the first time you meet Trevor so you're making your first impression, how better to reinforce the idea he's a psychopath than by completely decimating a person you have formerly played as and have a connection to? It's a "WHAM!" moment, created solely for shock, it succeeds it's purpose. Rockstar giveth a character, Rockstar can taketh away.

The reason, as has probably been stated here, for the torture scene is this: It's social commentary. Trevor repeatedly talks about how ineffective torture is,  and frowns upon government use of waterboarding etc. Makes me laugh that some people don't have a problem with torture/waterboarding in real life, by your own governments, but by god if an art form like film/game brings up the subject in a negative way everyone gets out their pitchforks and torches. 

TLDR version;

Johnny was killed to reinforce Trevor as a bad mawphucka.
Torture scene is social commentary for the US Governments use of torture.


Jacob-B
  • Jacob-B

    Misunderstood Genius

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2013
  • None

#46

Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:34 PM

I loved Johnny he's one of my top 5 favorite protagonists and i thought his death was definitely unexpected albeit bittersweet, but definitely not a bad decision by Rockstar.

 

He may have shot a rocket launcher in a prison wall and take down hundred of armed guards along with Terry and Clay to be able to silence his former best friend from turning states, but his death showed that just because he was a playable character none of these protagonists are invincible.

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.


Zadi
  • Zadi

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Mar 2009

#47

Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:52 PM Edited by Zadi, 06 October 2013 - 10:53 PM.

To make me play as Johnny, defeat his rivals and traitorous Lost brethren, and to finally make the decision at the end of the game to leave Ashley, his meth-addicted girlfriend, was one of the things that made me so proud of this middle aged homeless biker. Him leaving Ashley was the only good thing that came out of the whole endeavor because, let's be real, the Lost Clubhouse and that horrible apartment he kept after killing Brian were terrible, Clay and a number of his friends were killed pointlessly, and in the end he was left with lots of money and nowhere to spend it. Nonetheless, he'd waged a personal victory by no longer being an enabler. Hooray for Johnny!

 
I actually liked Johnny because while he was a disgusting piece of trash, he still had a heart of gold and would do anything for his friends and even for Ashley despite the fact that she was beyond his help.
 

With that sentiment out of the way, I thought that for RockStar to introduce him in GTA V as a meth addict who, after fighting for territory in Liberty City, inexplicably now lives in the Sandy Shores desert playing meth-slave to a deranged Trevor was the first disappointment. The second came from knowing that, despite surviving gun battles in The Lost and Damned, breaking into a prison and taking out countless armed guards, and being an overall badass, his demise came from getting jealous over the girl he'd allegedly decided to no longer associate with.

 
 
Actually, I can see how the writers got Johnny to this point. After essentially the fall of the Alderney City chapter of the Lost brotherhood the guilt of killing Billy, regardless of the fact Billy was a traitor, the guilt of the destruction of the brotherhood, Ashley's self-destruction... all of it took a toll on him over time. I could see how he got back together with Ashley (as if these were real people) and how at a moment of weakness Ashley got him to try meth and he was hooked. Kind of like how Sweet's girlfriend got him started but unlike Sweet who had CJ there, Johnny really didn't have anyone to stop him. Sure Terry and Clay were there and followed him but they didn't stop him from using since they too were battling their own demons with what happened in Alderney City.
 
That's probably why they all went out west was because of all the "ghosts" in Alderney City with Billy, Brian and other club members. Remember what Niko said to Roman about having to live with the choices? For Niko the bottle was where he turned to in order to "forget" as best as he could but for Johnny it was drugs and unfortunately for Johnny, Ashley got him to try meth which is very addictive.
 
 
 

The Leader of the Lost, despite everything he'd prevailed over, died at the hands, or shall I say "feet" of Trevor, his brains stomped out on the desert floor.

 
Johnny was the leader of the Alderney City chapter. Like (almost) all motorcycle gangs theirs was just one chapter. He wasn't the leader of all The Lost just the Alderney City chapter.
 
The first time I played Mr. Phillips and saw that I couldn't continue the game because I was a fan of Johnny. I'm with you in that I hated how he died. After mulling it over I could see how this happened (as I explained above). Meth changes a person, causes all kinds of nasty things to the person's body - deteriorates a person inside and out. Ever seen pictures of meth users after a couple of years? They've aged greatly and lost their teeth to rot, they break bones easily. A likely explanation is Ashley got Johnny hooked on meth a few years back and so it took a heavy toll on his body which allowed Trevor to easily kill him. If Johnny wasn't on meth there is no way Trevor would have been able to kill him, they'd be on equal footing.
 

For SHAME, Rockstar! How very rude of you!

 

I don't see it as Rockstar being rude. These games are based on violence and death so there will never be a fairytale ending and there shouldn't be. Did I like seeing Johnny die in this manner? No. Could I understand how Rockstar got to this place? Yes.

 

When I finished The Lost and the Damned, my first thought about what would happen to Johnny now that he essentially had nothing left in Alderney City was for him to leave. Apparently the devs at Rockstar had the same idea. I still rather have seen him killed in a "blaze of glory" than at the feet of Trevor Phillips but what's done is done. There is very little chance for them to retcon this.

 

 

My second turn-off was the torture of the innocent man. I absolutely hated taking part. It reminded me of the San Andreas mission where CJ buries the construction foreman alive in a port-a-potty. It was unnecessarily cruel and unusual and the same information the torture victim told prior to the torture was the same information he told afterwards.

 

Innocent? How do we know the character was really innocent? What will be interesting is if they bring that character back in a DLC and we see who kidnapped him for the IAA and who he really is. BTW - did you ever watch the movie Salt with Angelina Jolie? In a way the guy reminds me of her character in which she was brutally tortured yet maintained her innocence and was eventually let go. Turns out she was

Spoiler

 

 

 

The reason I like RockStar's games so much is because they introduce what I like to call "the reluctant criminal - people who have criminal pasts but turned over a new leaf and are forced, through circumstances not their own, to revert back to their old ways. For example, CJ wasn't a criminal when he returned to San Andreas for his mother's funeral, but Tenpenny and Pulaski framing him for Officer Pendlebury's murder was a catalyst that forced him back into his old ways. The same can be said for John Marston. Even though I can't necessarily relate to the reluctant criminal, I can certainly justify their behavior in my mind. Trevor was GTA V's Catalina so he gets a pass for insanity.

 

All in all, I enjoyed the game even though it was so easy to beat. I look forward to the next GTA installment as long as main characters aren't so disrespectfully written off and torture doesn't become the standard of every mission.

 

I disagree with the "reluctant criminal" aspect. All of the characters we've played over the years were never good men. They were murderers, thieves, liars. When CJ came back from Liberty City he mentioned throughout the game that he wasn't up to anything good in LC.

 

I don't give Trevor a "pass" for his behavior because he's insane. He's not insane at all as that implies he has no choice in his actions and yet he does. He's a drug addict who is constantly high on speed, he has issues with abandonment stemming from his mother, he has impulse issues but he is not insane. He had the choice to walk away after he was calmed Johnny down but chose to kill him then chose to go after the rest of the Lost.

 

I do think that Johnny's death at the feet of Trevor was a terrible decision on Rockstar's part but there really was no option for Johnny since no character really has ever had a fairytale ending where they live happily ever after. I think if Niko should end up in a DLC or a future game we'll see that even he didn't get a fairytale ending despite that

Spoiler

 

Any how, that's my two cents on why while I hate how they killed of Johnny I can understand why they did it.


Dr Kain
  • Dr Kain

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2012

#48

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:02 AM

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.

 

Uh... there were only 3 (unless you count the worthless Lost guys).  

Spoiler


Ezuu
  • Ezuu

    You looking at me?

  • Members
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • None

#49

Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:22 AM

 

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.

 

Uh... there were only 3 (unless you count the worthless Lost guys).  

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

And yes, I couldn't agree more with this post. Johnny's death really sucked. They didn't even cared about TLAD fans like us. 


AlienWillHeMonsta
  • AlienWillHeMonsta

    Prankster

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Aug 2012

#50

Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

That's why there's option A.


Dr Kain
  • Dr Kain

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2012

#51

Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:30 AM

 

 

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.

 

Uh... there were only 3 (unless you count the worthless Lost guys).  

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

And yes, I couldn't agree more with this post. Johnny's death really sucked. They didn't even cared about TLAD fans like us. 

 

 

Spoiler


BlackNoise
  • BlackNoise

    Ghetto Star

  • Members
  • Joined: 11 Nov 2011
  • None

#52

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:14 PM Edited by BlackNoise, 09 October 2013 - 12:17 PM.

 

As for how short the game felt, I agree.

The end came as a suprise for me. What, that's it??

But I think we can expect new episodes from GTA V like we did in IV with TLAD and TBOGT.

It would be stupid not to make future episodes for V too.

 

It's obvious that the new Los Santos and surrounding areas have potential and opens up a world of creativity and possibilities for Rockstar to come up with new stories and characters :D

 

TLAD was released for Xbox 360 10 months after the release of IV. Maybe we can expect some trailers next summer for V. Who knows

 

R* stated already they won't be making additional storylines like TBoGT anymore.

 

They never said anything like that. In fact, they said just the opposite. I'll find the quote if you want, but they basically said they're compelled to make big story driven DLC like the episodes and Undead Nightmare, because they were proud of them and they were good business. 

 

Either everybody reads that interview wrong, or people are just repeating what other people keep saying. Either way, you'll never find any quote from R* like what you said. If you do find one, please post it, because I've been searching for it forever.  :monocle:

 

 

To the OP, I completely agree about Johnny. TLAD was my favorite GTA IV story and as much as I love R*, it really showed me what type of developers they are when it comes to the story. They simply don't care about how we feel about the motivations and actions of the different protagonists, which sucks because we play as them and it keeps me from connecting with them properly. 


Ezuu
  • Ezuu

    You looking at me?

  • Members
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2013
  • None

#53

Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:34 AM Edited by Ezuu, 10 October 2013 - 08:34 AM.

 

 

 

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.

 

Uh... there were only 3 (unless you count the worthless Lost guys).  

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

And yes, I couldn't agree more with this post. Johnny's death really sucked. They didn't even cared about TLAD fans like us. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler


RLTmavrick
  • RLTmavrick

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Oct 2013

#54

Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

I can actually answer Why johnny was killed. I have a friend who works for R*. And the question was brought up. and the answer is simply. Sam Houser One of the big wigs of R*.....hated johnny. I know this does not help your problem but it is THE answer. 


TheDeaconBosco
  • TheDeaconBosco

    A car so nice, they've named it twice

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 09 Nov 2012

#55

Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:38 AM Edited by Deacon Bosco, 10 October 2013 - 09:39 AM.

 

 

 

 

I think Rockstar went a bit overboard with the cameos from GTA 4 though, and half of those cameos being killed was a bit odd.

 

Uh... there were only 3 (unless you count the worthless Lost guys).  

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

And yes, I couldn't agree more with this post. Johnny's death really sucked. They didn't even cared about TLAD fans like us. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users