Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

A Disrespectful Ending for a Character?

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
54 replies to this topic
PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#1

Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:19 PM Edited by PlainJayneMusic, 26 September 2013 - 07:22 PM.

Let me start by saying that I'm a huge GTA fan even though San Andreas was way better than GTA IV and GTA V as far as the storyline goes and I was quite upset at how quick and easy this game was to beat considering I waited for two years of pushed back release dates before finally getting to play it.

 

That being said, despite enjoying the game, there were a number of things that absolutely turned me off.

 

The biggest thing in my opinion is how disrespectfully RockStar killed off the character Johnny Klebitz from The Lost and Damned storyline of the Liberty City stories.

 

To make me play as Johnny, defeat his rivals and traitorous Lost brethren, and to finally make the decision at the end of the game to leave Ashley, his meth-addicted girlfriend, was one of the things that made me so proud of this middle aged homeless biker. Him leaving Ashley was the only good thing that came out of the whole endeavor because, let's be real, the Lost Clubhouse and that horrible apartment he kept after killing Brian were terrible, Clay and a number of his friends were killed pointlessly, and in the end he was left with lots of money and nowhere to spend it. Nonetheless, he'd waged a personal victory by no longer being an enabler. Hooray for Johnny!

 

With that sentiment out of the way, I thought that for RockStar to introduce him in GTA V as a meth addict who, after fighting for territory in Liberty City, inexplicably now lives in the Sandy Shores desert playing meth-slave to a deranged Trevor was the first disappointment. The second came from knowing that, despite surviving gun battles in The Lost and Damned, breaking into a prison and taking out countless armed guards, and being an overall badass, his demise came from getting jealous over the girl he'd allegedly decided to no longer associate with. 

 

The Leader of the Lost, despite everything he'd prevailed over, died at the hands, or shall I say "feet" of Trevor, his brains stomped out on the desert floor.

 

For SHAME, Rockstar! How very rude of you! 

 

My second turn-off was the torture of the innocent man. I absolutely hated taking part. It reminded me of the San Andreas mission where CJ buries the construction foreman alive in a port-a-potty. It was unnecessarily cruel and unusual and the same information the torture victim told prior to the torture was the same information he told afterwards.

 

All in all, I enjoyed the game though. I liked switching from player to player, it was a novel and innovative experience.I wish the game would have been more difficult to beat and I hope that in future GTA games they innovate without becoming too dependent on these types of torture missions.

 

The reason I like RockStar's games so much is because they introduce what I like to call "the reluctant criminal - people who have criminal pasts but turned over a new leaf and are forced, through circumstances not their own, to revert back to their old ways. For example, CJ wasn't a criminal when he returned to San Andreas for his mother's funeral, but Tenpenny and Pulaski framing him for Officer Pendlebury's murder was a catalyst that forced him back into his old ways. The same can be said for John Marston. Even though I can't necessarily relate to the reluctant criminal, I can certainly justify their behavior in my mind. Trevor was GTA V's Catalina so he gets a pass for insanity.

 

All in all, I enjoyed the game even though it was so easy to beat. I look forward to the next GTA installment as long as main characters aren't so disrespectfully written off and torture doesn't become the standard of every mission.

  • archiebunker, QuietSundayLibrary, UltraGizmo64 and 1 other like this

Mean Machine
  • Mean Machine

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2013

#2

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:13 PM Edited by Mean Machine, 26 September 2013 - 08:15 PM.

As for how short the game felt, I agree.

The end came as a suprise for me. What, that's it??

But I think we can expect new episodes from GTA V like we did in IV with TLAD and TBOGT.

It would be stupid not to make future episodes for V too.

 

It's obvious that the new Los Santos and surrounding areas have potential and opens up a world of creativity and possibilities for Rockstar to come up with new stories and characters :D

 

TLAD was released for Xbox 360 10 months after the release of IV. Maybe we can expect some trailers next summer for V. Who knows


SkylineGTRFreak
  • SkylineGTRFreak

    Blackhawk lover

  • Members
  • Joined: 28 Jun 2010

#3

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:37 PM

As for how short the game felt, I agree.

The end came as a suprise for me. What, that's it??

But I think we can expect new episodes from GTA V like we did in IV with TLAD and TBOGT.

It would be stupid not to make future episodes for V too.

 

It's obvious that the new Los Santos and surrounding areas have potential and opens up a world of creativity and possibilities for Rockstar to come up with new stories and characters :D

 

TLAD was released for Xbox 360 10 months after the release of IV. Maybe we can expect some trailers next summer for V. Who knows

 

R* stated already they won't be making additional storylines like TBoGT anymore.


simonp92
  • simonp92

    Whodunit?

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009

#4

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:41 PM

I whole heartedly agree. Johnny did not derserve this treatment, It kinda feels like a waste having played through TLAD, accomplishing so much character development,  only to have R* kill such brilliant character in such a brutal way. I felt bad about the whole introduction of Trevor, because of Johnny's death, not to mention Terry and Clay. I guess it was R*'s way of saying in with the new and out with the old, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Imagine if CJ had run over Tommy with a car, or something equally brutal, during the events of SA. I'm sure allot of VC fans would have been pissed then. 


Racecarlock
  • Racecarlock

    The floor here will kill you, try to avoid it.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009

#5

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:43 PM

Yeah, trevor should have killed some random generic guy that we had never met before. That would have proved how badass trevor is.


Ninjambie
  • Ninjambie

    I got riders... you know who you are.

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Sep 2013
  • Puerto-Rico

#6

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

I lmao when he was talking to his boot and flicked off some of the brain matter that was still there.

  • MrGuitarrica and UltraGizmo64 like this

simonp92
  • simonp92

    Whodunit?

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009

#7

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:55 PM

Yeah, trevor should have killed some random generic guy that we had never met before. That would have proved how badass trevor is.

 

There was absolutely nothing badass about the way Trevor killed Johnny. The biggest problem here isn't that Johnny died, or that Trevor killed him. It was the whole character breach of Johnny. 


TrevorPhilipsInc
  • TrevorPhilipsInc

    Mark Chump

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2013

#8

Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

 

Yeah, trevor should have killed some random generic guy that we had never met before. That would have proved how badass trevor is.

 

There was absolutely nothing badass about the way Trevor killed Johnny. The biggest problem here isn't that Johnny died, or that Trevor killed him. It was the whole character breach of Johnny. 

 

 

 

Theres a good solid 4 to 5 year gap between the Timeline of you playing as Johnny and the event with Trevor. A whole lot could of lead to Johnny turning out to be the way he did.

 

Johnny might of been preaching a whole lot of 'going straight' in L&D but most MC Clubs cant keep themselves out of trouble.. The whole DLC for L&D was evidence of this...The more Johnny talked of going straight the more bent out of shape things went.

 

I wasnt shocked at what Johnny became..Everything he arrogantly preached against in L&D. Characters like CJ and Tommy...I assume theyre dead by this point. The lifestyles they lead dictate that someone will eventually rise up and over throw them much like they did to those that came before them.

 

Johnny was a message to the community. A message that Trevor was a true departure from the typical characters we've played and that GTAV was not going to be a repeat of GTAIV.

 

Deal with it Johnny is dead.

  • TheFreightTrain likes this

cp1dell
  • cp1dell

    Big Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2008
  • None

#9

Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:58 AM

Funny to see fans of GTA making their own controversy for the game.

 

That aside, I did like Johnny. I loved the whole biker theme in TLAD. Johnny was definitely up there with Niko as my favorite protagonist.

 

was shocked and disappointed when Trevor killed him. From there on, I didn't like Trevor that much. He's really psychotic. It can be funny sometimes, but other times it is really uncomfortable and unsettling how sick he is. I was sad to see Johnny go, but I'm not mad at Rockstar.

 

First of all, Johnny was a badass. Think about what that says about Trevor. This is an actual trope used in stories, this happens a lot.

 

I'm not surprised about the way Johnny turned out. It's been five years after the f*cked up events that took place in Liberty City. I'm not surprised he was still with Ashley, in TLAD he always helped her no matter what he said or how angry he was with her.

 

I don't think they completely changed Johnny's character in V. It makes sense considering he's f*cked up on meth, that Trevor supplies him with meth and that Trevor is known to be a f*cking lunatic.

 

It was sad to see Johnny go out like that, and for a while I resented Trevor for it. But I think you guys are honestly overreacting. You're more focused on what happened to Johnny and why it pisses you off, and not what it does for Johnny's character and explains, and Trevor's character.


Airborne82
  • Airborne82

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2013

#10

Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

I think it was meant to show how messed up the world can be and how anyone no matter who you are can arrive at your last few seconds of life in the blink of an eye.This is San Andreas ! Where punks like Johnny ain't sh*t! Lol

Old_BenKenobi
  • Old_BenKenobi

    Just a crazy old man.

  • Members
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2009

#11

Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:26 AM

Killing Johnny was a great move. The point of the game is there are no happy endings, either you grow bored with your success or you die at the hands of someone crazier than you.

 

And the torture mission was genius. Besides being a hilarious minigame, it actually satirized its own gratuity.

  • ActionBronson likes this

AndrewDeSanta
  • AndrewDeSanta

    Republitarian

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2012
  • United-States

#12

Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:44 AM

Who cares. Jimmy was a bastard. Sure he was trying to sort himself out but in the end he deserved to die. How else do you think they could have had TREVOR kill him?


Twinnzel
  • Twinnzel

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 27 Sep 2013

#13

Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:44 PM

I was kinda upset by it too and like someone said before me I didnt like Trevor as much because of that scene. 

 

Im not more upset that Johnny died (at the feet of Trevor). I got pissed thinking "why is there not a mission to kill johnny instead of unexpectedly watching him get stomped out for something SIMPLE?"

 

A lot of people say Trevor is the most interesting  character, I find him to be unbelievable. The story makes Trevor out to be a bad ass, hard ass dude who is the big bully meth dealer to everyone..... but he is hiding in the desert. People supposedly fear him, because he is a psycho hard ass.......... but as the story goes on all of those qualities fade away. You see him forgive people, you see him cry, you see him help strangers, etc. While this could mean he turned a new leaf, the story DOES NOT show why. 

 

I agree with OP. This story lacks like other stories (it also has less humor like other GTA stories we fell in love with). But THE FxCKING GRAPHICS MAKES UP FOR THE SHxT STORY lol


king-rotty
  • king-rotty

    King Rotty

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2013

#14

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

It showed that trevor truly is a psychopath.

 

Then they try to contrast that when he hugs micheal's daughter.

and expresses concern about her doing sh*t. He also has dialogue saying

"I never did like bullies"... the man is f*cking nuts. It's a logical reason for the

sh*t gta players get up to. It's like a characature of my play style. Wonder if the other

characters feel that way to other players.


Infinityfq
  • Infinityfq

    Career Criminal

  • Members
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2013

#15

Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

Who cares. Jimmy was a bastard. Sure he was trying to sort himself out but in the end he deserved to die. How else do you think they could have had TREVOR kill him?

'Jimmy'

I'm rather sad about the fact that meth took him and left him in such a state that someone could even get near him, not even talking about killing him with hand-to-hand combat. But after the ending of TLAD he really had nothing left anyway.


GustavoMota
  • GustavoMota

    Whatchu want, some wheels?

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jan 2012
  • Canada

#16

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:37 AM

I never really got attached to Johnny and didn't enjoy TLAD as much as TBOGT, so I didn't mind it. Now, if he'd killed Luis...


nekkidhillbilly
  • nekkidhillbilly

    gta vigi game

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Nov 2004

#17

Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

NOT THIS sh*t AGAIN. f*ck its a game he was a pussified overly emotional man. everything he did was for his BROTHERS and a meth whore.


JustRob
  • JustRob

    Mack Pimp

  • Members
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2008

#18

Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:12 PM

I agree, Johnny's death was uncalled for. They basically threw in their own windows and undid all of the character development he's gone through in TLAD. 

 
And I honestly don't know what Rockstar was thinking. I would have loved to have attended the meeting where this was decided. 
 
"Hey, you know what? Let's bring back Johnny! He was a cool character!"
"You know what would be cooler? Let's make Trevor kick his head in!! Yeah, nobody will see it coming! LOL!"

GTAhole
  • GTAhole

    BPC

  • Members
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2013

#19

Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:26 PM

0_0.jpg

 

Respect?   Why don't you all ask the bottom of my boot about respect.

  • iamaslug likes this

reform
  • reform

    Beaten, battered, bruised, Told to get down

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jan 2009

#20

Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

I thought it was the perfect introduction to Trevor, and it works on several levels;

  • As a metaphor for what V is to IV.
  • As an intro to who Trevor is and a motive to not like him
  • As an example of how there are no "good guys" when it comes to GTA protags.
  • As a plot mechanic to convince the player that nothing is sacred and that ANYONE could die in the story that follows.
  • Shah Sam and GTAhole like this

RyanM1995
  • RyanM1995

    Punk-ass Bitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2013

#21

Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:55 PM

For your first point I understand where you're coming from I know I would have been annoyed if that happened to Niko. For you're second point just remember it's just a game and not real. At least the guy didn't die
  • TheFreightTrain likes this

TimeLordDoctor
  • TimeLordDoctor

    You are pulling down heaven and raising up a whore!

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2011
  • United-Kingdom

#22

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:03 AM

you guys forget we watched Vic Vance get gun downed before we even met him.


TimeLordDoctor
  • TimeLordDoctor

    You are pulling down heaven and raising up a whore!

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2011
  • United-Kingdom

#23

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:06 AM

And its not like you killed Johnny K billions of times in TLAD anyways >.> 

  • TheFreightTrain and Shah Sam like this

Dr. Robotnik
  • Dr. Robotnik

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Dec 2012

#24

Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:28 AM

I didn't have a problem just with Johnny being killed off (he was IMO the least likeable of the GTA IV era protagonists, in fact), but I do agree that the way it was done seemed out-of-character for him and undid a lot of what he went through in The Lost and Damned.

 

On top of that, from a characterization standpoint I don't think it was a very good way to introduce players to Trevor, if we were meant to sympathize with him. He's really at his worst in those first few missions, enough so that by the time we see a more mellow side of him later in the game it comes across as too little, too late to overcome a bad first impression. But that's just me.


PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#25

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:32 PM Edited by PlainJayneMusic, 30 September 2013 - 09:33 PM.

I appreciate the feedback and opinions you ladies and gents have provided, however, to clarifiy:

 

1) I am aware that this is just a game and I am not saying that the torture mission was too realistic or any related synonyms. I am simply saying that one of the reasons I love Rockstar Games, especially GTA, is because the stories are written in a way that make you root for the protagonist despite the fact that he's a criminal. His struggle becomes your struggle and you want him to win by any means necessary, justifying anything he does by telling yourself that "his back was against the wall and he had no other options." In this instance, however, unlike most missions in previous games, what I was forced to do through Trevor felt cruel and unusual and I didn't enjoy it. I couldn't justify in my mind that despite doing these terrible things, the protagonist was an overall nice guy with his back against the wall. And because of this, I hated this particular mission.

 

2)This isn't a "fan of the game creating their own controversy"  situation, its simply a fan of the game using a forum set up by other fans to express my opinion. 

 

3) Although I respect the opinions of the previous posters who felt that Johnny Klebitz's death was necessary to showcase how bad an ass Trevor is when introducing him for the first time, I disagree with that sentiment. Trevor's bad-ass-ocity could have been conveyed in many different ways without, in my opinion, betraying a character Rockstar had previously developed. There have been instances in other games where there were crossover missions that promoted previous GTA characters and none of those missions required the betrayal of one character for the enhancement of another. For example, in GTA San Andreas when Tommy Vercetti made a cameo appearance during the racing mission, CJ didn't have to kill him brutally to show how big a bad ass he was and we still got the point. In Liberty City stories, Luis and Nico were both involved in the same shootout numerous times over the missing diamonds and not once did one character have to eliminate the other. As for introducing the world to a crazy character, Catalina, who appeared in both GTA San Andreas and in the original GTA series, didn't have to be especially brutal for us to know she was nutso. The dialogue in those storylines spoke for itself, so if killing Johnny was essential to the storyline of GTA V as many of you claim, then doesn't that mean the writers didn't have the same imagination for the dialogue that they had in San Andreas?

 

4) This wasn't really previously mentioned, but it goes back to my stating that part of the appeal for liking Rockstar Games is the "likeable bad guys."  The only person I could even "kind of" like in this game was Franklin. I could understand why he got mad and tired of Lamar involving him in his harebrained schemes and eventually wanted to sever ties. (I think this is because he is the anti-CJ. CJ was so concerned about not being considered a punk, he was willing to do any and every stupid plan his Grove Street brothers wanted. He bought in to the "gang life" mentality and it got him nowhere and at times, you just wanted him to say "Phuck it" and go about his business getting money since nothing he ever did was enough for them. Franklin on the other hand, sees gang life for the pyramid scheme he considers it to be and rolls for self} Franklin may be a jerk at times, but his friends justify it. Michael, on the other hand, is a self-absorbed asshole and Trevor, though at times he shows compassion like with Wade and Mrs.Madrazo, is insane and that insanity counteracts those "heartfelt" moments and you still end up hating him. So on the level of why I usually like these games, the fact that only one of the three characters was semi-likeable is kind of disappointing, not to mention the fact that once you beat the game, even though there are things to do, there is no one to do them with since everyone hates you.

 

I am still and always will be a fan of this game. I don't understand why its difficult for some people to understand that I can have a few disappointments and still be a loyal fan though. As I've said, Rockstar Games have the best characters and storylines, I just hoped for more out of this particular one.

  • archiebunker likes this

YaDoesntHaveToCallMeRay
  • YaDoesntHaveToCallMeRay

    Releasing The Inner Geek

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2013
  • None

#26

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

Oh Well!


DSO_BillV
  • DSO_BillV

    Spooky Scary Skeleton

  • Members
  • Joined: 27 Sep 2013
  • United-States

#27

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:10 PM

"Michael is a self-absorbed asshole"? Yeah, okay. So you're saying, through some deluded sense of honor, you'd rather die in that heist in North Yankton than do what is best for you and your family and take a fall? Michael isn't just a one-sided coin. Sure, at times, he's a prick. But the story is woven just that he's justified for the majority of his actions; he still feels some doubt at the end of the story. The only reason he takes a swing at Fabien doing 'yoga' with his wife, or the only reason he time and time again derails Tracey's career as a dime-a-dozen Vinewood starlet, wasn't just because he was a dickhead and just felt like doing it at the time, but because he wanted what was best for them. Michael realized that family was much more important than money, and did a deal with the FIB to get him out of "the game" and turn over a new leaf. Although this meant abandoning Trevor, Michael swallowed his pride and his near-limitless pursuit of money and did the right thing. It was only after Michael was drugged by his son for quote-unquote "being too f*cking crazy", and Amanda and the kids moving out did he realize that his M.O. was too drastic and taxing upon his family. After he mellowed out, then subsequently took a laptop to a yoga instructor's face and tattooed a dong on a celebrity's chest, Michael admitted he flew off the handle and apologized to his family, and took responsibility for his actions.

Michael isn't just another cardboard cutout of your stereotypical '80's action hero; he's just a family man with a dangerous past who only wants to do the right thing for his wife and kids.

DSO_BillV
  • DSO_BillV

    Spooky Scary Skeleton

  • Members
  • Joined: 27 Sep 2013
  • United-States

#28

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:12 PM

But you're right. Trevor's f*cking insane.

PlainJayneMusic
  • PlainJayneMusic

    The Plainest of the Jayneths

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2013

#29

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:26 PM

Its true that Michael is a family man, but he sucks at that role too. He is always short-tempered and barely pays attention to what his family is involved in. When it comes to his friends, his only concern is himself and getting back to his normal life and after he realizes that he enjoys being "in the game" again, he is more concerned about his "budding movie career" to worry about his so-called friends. So initially, I liked Michael as a character. He came across as an under-appreciated father whose family only concerned themselves with spending his money and making his life miserable. But the more I learned of his character and past as the plot developed, I realized he wasn't the guy I initially thought and believe that if he had to choice to screw Trevor and Franklin and get away with it, he'd take it. 

  • archiebunker likes this

SprunkJunkie
  • SprunkJunkie

    Thug

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Aug 2013

#30

Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:18 PM

Thats what I like about Michael, he is in it for himself and will do what needs to be done to ensure he survives.  Trevor is just insane drug addled psychotic, and imo best character!  Franklin is kinda boring, I feel like he was included for the San Andreas nuts to have someone to where green, dont hate think about it lol.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users