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Screw you, Rockstar... GTA V *SPOILERS*

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LeatherLion
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#181

Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:36 AM

No, Johnny was a scumbag and he deserved it. Trevor.Is.Awesome.


Compared to Trevor, how is Johnny a scumbag?

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#182

Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:07 AM

Don't feed the troll Lion. Also Majestic, that article also says that it takes place after the events of the storyline but we know it's before which reduces its credibility. Not saying its impossible but even if it is true, it doesn't make up for the mess they made. Maybe make clean it up a little but it'll still stink.

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#183

Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:14 AM

You know how R* like to screw someone up, like...

 

"Oh, this character is so developed and lovable by many fans..... let's just kill him hahahahaa"

 

or maybe like Victor Vance,

Spoiler


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#184

Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:25 PM

It gets worse I'm afraid. Guess which mission people are spamming over and over again because the payout is ridiculously high for its effort? Violent Duct where you get to slaughter Lost members... Yay...

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#185

Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:08 AM

^^ I don't like it either but at least hey gave us something to get it across to us. He deserved a whole different death.

 

^We don't know that yet. Nobody can get anywhere with Online right now and a lot is undiscovered

I DID go online (after four days on Friday, and then my level 16 character was deleted on Sunday; HUR HUR ROCKSTAR), plus GTA Wiki had early access. 

GTA Wiki does not cite Johnny, Angus, Terry, Clay, or in Peach's theory, Jim in GTA Online. The only things you can do are run missions for Trevor, in which he explicitly wants you to steal a Lost gang burrito to f*ck Ashley in. Ron even adds in a text message that Trevor "really wants to torment her fella". 

 

The Lost are officially "mook" status.


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#186

Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:10 AM

It gets worse I'm afraid. Guess which mission people are spamming over and over again because the payout is ridiculously high for its effort? Violent Duct where you get to slaughter Lost members... Yay...

 

Well, it's about a couple Lost members, mostly Vagos. 

Pretty fun killing them Vagos. Until your boosting is all for not when your character is randomly deleted.

I get what you're sayin', though.


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#187

Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:36 AM

Ashley killed Johnny. That was his fatal flaw, he always kept taking her back and never letting her go no matter how bad she f*cked up. He always let her drag him into bad decisions. She got him hooked on meth and turned him into the shell of a man he was until Trevor put him out of his f*cking misery. I'm glad Johnny and the Lost are dead, they needed to be put down. Like a sick decrepit dog clinging to life.

 

I loved Johnny in TLAD, but he and his gang were nothing but a bunch of meth heads running on the fumes of their former glory in the end. Thanks to Mr. Klebitz bad decisions and their blind loyalty.


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#188

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:54 AM

Ashley died too according to Weazel News.

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#189

Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:21 AM

We still got Angus, but I don't think we'll see much action or revenge from him since he's disabled.

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#190

Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

You know how R* like to screw someone up, like...

 

"Oh, this character is so developed and lovable by many fans..... let's just kill him hahahahaa"

 

or maybe like Victor Vance,

Spoiler

 

What ? nah they only pissed off those who believed in denial that just because Vic spent the whole game screaming 'no to drugs' then it irrefutably meant he would have gone out for a clean life for good ...

 

And the argument that it was Pete Vance who died was even worse ! Rockstar didn't created a third Vance brother to add plausibility to Vic's survival , they created Pete to give justification as to why Victor would even bother to go through all his troubles , because he certainly wasn't sweating with his principles for Lance , or his mother , or even his aunt ... so , they created sick little off-screen Pete to justify Victor's intentions at making money ...

But then a large portion of fans took it as a sign that "Victor lives" and it was ridiculous !

 

Precisely so , Victor Vance as a character was an interesting case how 'good deeds are all but perverse' within the Grand Theft Auto universe , and it was this forgone conclusion hanging above his head this whole time that Makes him such a memorable protagonist to us ...

 

So you can't hope for him to live on fresh from the vices he co-existed with , otherwise , there wouldn't have been the slightest interest to his character , no drama other than this "i don't like drugs but i don't mind shooting people" mentality that some took it as a severe case of hypocrisy ...

 

Point is Rockstar didn't 'enjoyed' screwing around with Vic , it's just that he was a character 'made' to be screwed over with , down to the irony of having 'Victor' as a first name , for he could never been a winner in this obscene universe Rockstar had created , and there's a well intentioned tragedy to be had here ...

 

Saving Vic at the last minute would have been a meaningless act of pity that would have also made this a banal and forgettable story.

 

I was glad when Rockstar moved up and openly said it was Vic who died, it was time for fans to stop arguing/hypothesise/believe that it 'had' to be someone else , somebody supposedly 'insignificant' to take his place.

 

Johnny's case is a bit different. Although you could also argue that his eventual meth addiction and his 'habit' with Ashley brings a meaningful end out of his existence, this simply isn't a detriment outcome that his character needs to undertake in reaching his tragic conclusion; this isn't like how Victor and the drug business are mutual connotations to one another, Johnny Klebitz didn't necessarily needed to meet his end with the 'meth & Ashley' angle, it could have also been Johnny deciding to take jobs for Stubbs again, or rebuilding the clubhouse but then unintentionally taking Billy's leadership as his focal guiding point inspiration and then ended up in such a mess, or any other exposition theories, fact is none of them truly 'sticks' with the character conclusion of Johnny.

 

The only ending route that made sense was the one we precisely saw at the end of Lost and Damned , with Johnny's three final steps at committing social 'suicide' ; storming a government facility to kill a childhood friend , torching his own home , saying farewell to friends on the phone and sitting on that dirty bed in Brian's safehouse as incessant and loud death metal music rings over his head.

 

There was no 'need' to bring Johnny back and show people how 'drugs are bad! even if life all falls apart you should never take it as a last resort! and don't touch drug addicted women either!' it would have been akin to have an ambulance arriving and reviving Victor Vance, but on the way back to the hospital the ambulance goes off route and flips upside down and crash and burn and explodes. It's overkill.

 

That said , in the past few days I've been replaying a couple of Rockstar's previous titles , i'm not sure if it's the hype around GTAV or I just felt like in the mood ... but anyway , I noticed that either Rockstar have a tendency of disliking the morally corrupt universes they place their poor souls in , or , they simply believe that their violence-endued leading protagonists can ever make it to the elysian fields clean and serene. As if it was a general rule or sort, not to piss people off, but it's a company trademark that they have to insist on.

 

Or, they simply have troubles pulling out satisfying endings at times.

 

Spoilers to a couple of non-Grand Theft Auto Rockstar titles from the past ten years:

 

Spoiler
I say that Rockstar likes exploring this concept of 'what happens to player characters when the player isn't in control'.

 

So back with Johnny , when he isn't controlled by the player , he goes making lots of stupid choices , whereas none of his decisions could have occurred while under player's direction ... It's as if player's intervention is what 'saves' these characters from complete moral bankrupt.

 

So the fact that we are playing as bad people but in the process halting them from becoming complete trash bags is ... a sly meta-concept on their behalf ? ...

 

Granted , none of the above case examples serves as to introduce a 'new' protagonist , but there's got to be a first to it , no ? ...

And at least they started with the bottom of the barrel ; they'll never cook up something more excessive than Trevor killing Johnny.

 

Or they'll just be showing off ... maybe they already are.


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#191

Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

I gotta disagree with all the Vic Vance "logic", and let me explain that in a couple short sentences.

 

Vic Vance was introduced as a meaningless nobody, but then Vice City Stories made him into a profound hero of his corner of the world.

 

Johnny K. was introduced as a profound hero of his corner of the world, and killed as a meaningless nobody.

 

YOU CAN'T KILL A PROTAGONIST YOU TOLD US TO LOVE, ROCKSTAR. WE ALL GET HIGH, WE ALL GET HIGH, BUT THAT DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT!


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#192

Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:33 PM

 


Spoiler

L. A. NOIRE AND RED DEAD REDEMPTION SPOILERS

Spoiler
Johnny, Vic, Max Payne to some extent, we can see that there really is no room for good in this world.

Unfortunately, I think this is our classic English teacher over-analysis. I don't think this was Rockstar's intention for Vic or Johnny. Again, this I stand by the fact that Johnny's death was just a sh*tty writing decision, but I really wish we could just get in touch with Rockstar to see what was in their heads at the time.

 

I've emailed Scott Hill (supposedly, IMDB didn't actually give me his email, just an automatic contact button) and Tweeted the Housers, linking this post. No responses.

 

If anyone knows any means, even if there's a slim chance of response, to contacting any writers on GTA's staff, feel free to share.

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LoneWolfMargaret
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#193

Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:45 AM

I absolutely loved The Lost And Damned and Johnny as a character. One the one hand I'm totally bummed out he was reduced to a junkie and killed like that but on theo the other hand I think It was a good, bold move by Rockstar to show what a lowlife psycho Trevor is (still kinda love him though :inlove: ), wish it was Luis who got his head caved in though. Couldn't stand playing as him, dullest character I've ever played as. Period.


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#194

Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:50 AM Edited by HoleInTheSky, 10 October 2013 - 02:00 AM.

I'm aware it's all fictional, but I lost respect for Klebitz in GTA V. In TLAD, he discouraged drug trafficking, petty violence (AoD war), Billy was the devil in his ear that returned the club to that way of life, but being club leader n all, obligation followed. Klebitz also ditched that drugged up slag Ashley prior to the game's events, because he knew she was bad for him. Johnny was aiming for something more, and was the most head-strong of the pack (coincidentally like Franklin compared to Lamar and co). Fast forward five years, Johnny becomes the drug addled mess, gets back with Ashley, a shell of his former self standing at Death's door. I was mad that Trevor killed him over a mindless rage, but got over it and it was clear that Klebitz got what was coming, sooner rather than later.

 

In reality, Rockstar could've made a badass out of Johnny (and the club), but it was downhill throughout. Hell, his first appearances in the franchise were deals gone wrong. lol


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#195

Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:09 AM

The stupid thing is, in V he had still had that Vice president patch on. they didnt even bother to give him the right model. goes to show how f*cking lazy the writing was. 

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#196

Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

The stupid thing is, in V he had still had that Vice president patch on. they didnt even bother to give him the right model. goes to show how f*cking lazy the writing was. 

 

Very well spotted, I went back on YouTube to corraborate that. Nice find, man.

 

Maybe there is a new president and we're going to have a DLC that expands on the Lost's story and adds some retribution and closure to Johnny's death? :D

 

OR NOT. Again, it really just seems like R* didn't give a damn about Klebitz. Their models and writers were just told to "make this biker guy and kill him, here's two screenshots, his girlfiend is a meth bitch, and here are two friends of his who weren't yet brutally murdered, kill them too."

 

Clay looks signifigantly younger in V. Unless the desert air is doing wonders for him; again, it just supports the real nonchalant, lazy, asshole effort put forward on R*'s part...


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#197

Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:57 PM Edited by eC.011loc, 11 October 2013 - 07:01 PM.

I found Johnny's death to be very distasteful too but after you play the game long enough Trevor does seem to have a little more pull than Johnny whom was more or less just a runner not to mention that Johnny could have been a little bit less of a *ahem* dousche about the factor that played between him and Trevor. And after seeing the length of some of the subjects here it's clear to see that Johnny was well liked, if I may, I felt the same way when Julius was murked in Saints Row 2.


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#198

Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:39 PM

Are people still going on about this? I think some of you need to draw the line between fiction and reality. If it pains you so much, go play TLAD and pretend none of this ever happened.

Not everyone shares your views on Johnny or the Lost, most people really couldn't care less. You make mention to Luis, if he would have been killed I'm sure you wouldn't give a sh*t. This is how the majority of GTA fans feel towards Johnny's death. The only ones still holding on are the biker wannabes who truly believe that the Lost are their "brothers." I read about someone who snuck behind that Lost guy who was paying his respects to the dead. He claimed that he joined in with some words of his own and shed a few tears too. Really now?

Let it go. I don't know what you are expecting. Rockstar to come out and say, "Sorry brothers, Johnny isn't actually dead and the Lost control Blaine County. Lost MC for life?" Give me a f*cking break. Some of the best movies have the protagonist dying in the end, the shock value it brings is part of good film making.

The princess doesn't always find the prince and the hero doesn't always save the world.

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#199

Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

Are people still going on about this? I think some of you need to draw the line between fiction and reality. If it pains you so much, go play TLAD and pretend none of this ever happened.

Not everyone shares your views on Johnny or the Lost, most people really couldn't care less. You make mention to Luis, if he would have been killed I'm sure you wouldn't give a sh*t. This is how the majority of GTA fans feel towards Johnny's death. The only ones still holding on are the biker wannabes who truly believe that the Lost are their "brothers." I read about someone who snuck behind that Lost guy who was paying his respects to the dead. He claimed that he joined in with some words of his own and shed a few tears too. Really now?

Let it go. I don't know what you are expecting. Rockstar to come out and say, "Sorry brothers, Johnny isn't actually dead and the Lost control Blaine County. Lost MC for life?" Give me a f*cking break. Some of the best movies have the protagonist dying in the end, the shock value it brings is part of good film making.

The princess doesn't always find the prince and the hero doesn't always save the world.

Then we can look forward to a SEQUAL!!!!! lol  :karmaeater: The Lost MC vs. Trevor Phillips Enterprises or is it Incorporated? You know!


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#200

Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:03 AM Edited by nobum62, 13 October 2013 - 04:04 AM.

Are people still going on about this? I think some of you need to draw the line between fiction and reality. If it pains you so much, go play TLAD and pretend none of this ever happened.

Not everyone shares your views on Johnny or the Lost, most people really couldn't care less. You make mention to Luis, if he would have been killed I'm sure you wouldn't give a sh*t. This is how the majority of GTA fans feel towards Johnny's death. The only ones still holding on are the biker wannabes who truly believe that the Lost are their "brothers." I read about someone who snuck behind that Lost guy who was paying his respects to the dead. He claimed that he joined in with some words of his own and shed a few tears too. Really now?

Let it go. I don't know what you are expecting. Rockstar to come out and say, "Sorry brothers, Johnny isn't actually dead and the Lost control Blaine County. Lost MC for life?" Give me a f*cking break. Some of the best movies have the protagonist dying in the end, the shock value it brings is part of good film making.

The princess doesn't always find the prince and the hero doesn't always save the world.

for the 1,000,000th time, this is not about johnny dying. it's HOW he died. HOW. i'm not going to bother explaining that, because it has already been done 1000 times, but i will say that if you are going to kill off a character who

Spoiler
, you should at least do it properly. badasses don't die easily


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#201

Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:26 AM

He wasn't a badass anymore. People can change a lot in five years, get the f*ck over it. 


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#202

Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:32 AM Edited by nobum62, 13 October 2013 - 04:35 AM.

He wasn't a badass anymore. People can change a lot in five years, get the f*ck over it. 

copying and pasting from Grevious since i don't want to re-type this sh*t again:

 

Spoiler

 
and i know it's just a game and there's nothing that can be changed about it, but johnny-boy was a really good character.
in gta 5 he was just WAAAAAAY out of character.......

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#203

Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:01 AM

 

He wasn't a badass anymore. People can change a lot in five years, get the f*ck over it. 

copying and pasting from Grevious since i don't want to re-type this sh*t again:

 

Spoiler

 
and i know it's just a game and there's nothing that can be changed about it, but johnny-boy was a really good character.
in gta 5 he was just WAAAAAAY out of character.......

 

Yeah, I totally felt he got ripped off in that part though but like I said, all that seemed to be said was that 

Spoiler
might have been a big wuss and when it came time to man up he couldn't. I guess nobody saw that part comin' huh?


Peregrin Brandytook
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#204

Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:57 PM Edited by gtafan899, 13 October 2013 - 12:58 PM.

Ashley died too according to Weazel News.

the drugs were going to kill her at some point.


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#205

Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

 

Ashley died too according to Weazel News.

the drugs were going to kill her at some point.

 

 

Duh. No one gives a f*ck about Ashley. You could argue that Jim would still be alive without here, and basing it off the sh*tty turn of events in V, Johnny and the rest of the cabinet as well.

That should have been a report at the end of GTA IV.

 

Nice profile picture BTW, up the irons \m/

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#206

Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:28 AM Edited by robbietd24, 14 October 2013 - 05:29 AM.

I made an account here just to be able to reply to this thread; it feels good to find people who thought what I thought when Johnny got stomped. sh*t man. It really got me down for like, the whole first day I played GTA V. Immediately put me at odds with Trevor as someone I had to play as, assume the persona of in a way. Thought it was sh*tting writing and a diss to TLAD fans, of which there are many. But I'm more ok with it now I think. I've seen what meth can do to a man. What initially pissed me off about Johnny's death was how easily he was killed, what a shadow of the protag I really enjoyed he was. But that's what meth, and a destructive relationship, will do. But one bone I have to pick: R* went to great lengths in GTA V to show that the Lost had gone national, had rebuilt in a way and had a large membership and generally profitable business going. So it's weird to have them be punching bags. Kinda iffy writing, but I'll give the Hausers a break; they're geniuses and get it right 99.9% of the time. I'd certainly appreciate not having to slaughter Lost every damn mission in GTA Online though. Jesus Christ. If my online character is meant to be and serve as my avatar of what I'd do with that life in that world, how about a feature where I can ally with different factions? Differing plot lines to follow to make a truly put me in an rpg crime world? Maybe I could even get to put on a Lost jacket... Wishful thinking I guess. But it would beat constant texts from Simeon to boost cars or having to deal with Gerald's grumpy ass.

 

RIP Johnny, You deserved happiness you didn't get. And to remember my favorite DLC of all time, I bought myself a t shirt: black, with an eagle logo, and emblazoned "Lost MC." Now here's to the future of the franchise. Cheers. 

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#207

Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:28 PM Edited by nobum62, 14 October 2013 - 10:24 PM.

No one gives a f*ck about Ashley.

 

 i cared so little about ashley, i killed her after trevor stomped johnny. in fact, i bet it was her who got johnny into meth.


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#208

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

Before GTA V was released I decided to hype myself up a bit by playing some TLaD, since I felt that I never really spent that much time in it.

 

The day before I was super hyped. I felt sorry for what happened him in TLaD, and I actually cared for him. I was wondering if he was going to make an appearance in GTA V.

 

And then I played the mission. The moment you gained control of Trevor after killing Johnny I just paused the game and wondered "Did that just happen?". The driving part just felt empty and I barely listened to what Trevor or his minions said. And then I got to the Terry and Clay part. I figured that they sure as hell wasn't gonna give up without a fight. The next thing you know they where fleeing with they're tails between their legs. Really Rockstar? Is this really what would have happened? The remaining part of the mission felt just like the drive to T and C, absolutely empty. 

 

I was extremely disappointed in Rockstar, and I could barely even play Trevor after this event. Now I just hope that they will make a DLC story starring Johnny prior to what happened so that you could see exactly how he turned into a meth addict and sh*t, but Rockstar are probably just going to focus on the online portion.

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#209

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:35 PM

Before GTA V was released I decided to hype myself up a bit by playing some TLaD, since I felt that I never really spent that much time in it.

 

The day before I was super hyped. I felt sorry for what happened him in TLaD, and I actually cared for him. I was wondering if he was going to make an appearance in GTA V.

 

And then I played the mission. The moment you gained control of Trevor after killing Johnny I just paused the game and wondered "Did that just happen?". The driving part just felt empty and I barely listened to what Trevor or his minions said. And then I got to the Terry and Clay part. I figured that they sure as hell wasn't gonna give up without a fight. The next thing you know they where fleeing with they're tails between their legs. Really Rockstar? Is this really what would have happened? The remaining part of the mission felt just like the drive to T and C, absolutely empty. 

 

I was extremely disappointed in Rockstar, and I could barely even play Trevor after this event. Now I just hope that they will make a DLC story starring Johnny prior to what happened so that you could see exactly how he turned into a meth addict and sh*t, but Rockstar are probably just going to focus on the online portion.

 

Oh My God!!

 

I feel so bad for you, you must be emotionally scarred!


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#210

Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:58 PM Edited by riki2cool, 15 October 2013 - 04:59 PM.

 

Before GTA V was released I decided to hype myself up a bit by playing some TLaD, since I felt that I never really spent that much time in it.

 

The day before I was super hyped. I felt sorry for what happened him in TLaD, and I actually cared for him. I was wondering if he was going to make an appearance in GTA V.

 

And then I played the mission. The moment you gained control of Trevor after killing Johnny I just paused the game and wondered "Did that just happen?". The driving part just felt empty and I barely listened to what Trevor or his minions said. And then I got to the Terry and Clay part. I figured that they sure as hell wasn't gonna give up without a fight. The next thing you know they where fleeing with they're tails between their legs. Really Rockstar? Is this really what would have happened? The remaining part of the mission felt just like the drive to T and C, absolutely empty. 

 

I was extremely disappointed in Rockstar, and I could barely even play Trevor after this event. Now I just hope that they will make a DLC story starring Johnny prior to what happened so that you could see exactly how he turned into a meth addict and sh*t, but Rockstar are probably just going to focus on the online portion.

 

Oh My God!!

 

I feel so bad for you, you must be emotionally scarred!

 

 

What are you planning on achieving with this? No really, I'm curious





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