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Screw you, Rockstar... GTA V *SPOILERS*

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B Dawg
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#151

Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:37 PM Edited by DarkKingBernard, 28 September 2013 - 04:53 PM.

 

 

he was still a mass murderer

Like every other GTA protagonist. I don't see this as a valid argument.

 

It's a valid argument because mass murderers do not deserve a hero's death, they deserve to be stomped out by crackheads, and Johnny got what he deserved. Regardless of if you like Johnny as a character,he was a horrible person who did horrible things, as I've already stated in my post above in great detail. 

 

Then why not have someone like Niko (lol not him) or Luis die? They both killed for money and to protect their friends, just like Johnny. They're not all that different.


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#152

Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:40 PM

Johnny is bad anime, k.


Grievous
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#153

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:09 PM

I laughed out loud at the first DLC comment I really did... AoD not being in the game makes absolutely zero sense. I'd thought of numerous shall we say 'things' to get back at Trevor but making him a punching bag and subject of torture for the sake of introducing a new protagonist. Comical. 

 

On Johnny torturing Pretty Boy at the start of TLAD he didn't want to do that but felt he had to in order to keep peace. He obviously can't tell Pretty Boy 'sorry I don't want to do this'. He wanted to appease Billy for the time being and felt that maybe once his 'thirst' had been satisfied he'd back off so went against what he believed in. Furthermore he was caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

If he sided with honoring the truce, he would have found himself out of the Lost and very unpopular very quickly and unable to protect the people he cared about. There's no damn way that's a viable option and that's how I saw it at the start and that's how I see it now.  As it was Johnny's 'peace keeping' mentality gave him serious problems with Billy, if he went much further then what he did Billy would have attempted to kill him far sooner.

 

Got at least one fan for my Angels of Death DLC, hell yeah ! ...

 

Great sense regarding the Pretty Boy sequence , adds even more subtle nuance to Johnny's behavior ...

 

In any case , the fact that Billy decides to set Johnny up seems like a fragile moment to me in the Lost and Damned : Johnny spoke against Billy many times , sure , but he ends up carrying every single task Billy puts him up with ...J

Johnny always acted as the loyal soldier , never once disobeying and never once trying to re-negotiate with the Angels of Death , and Johnny had always been effective at the killing/murdering tasks Billy orders him to do ... so why betray him ? ... What does Billy got to gain in it ? make Brian the vice-president ? where's the profit in that ? ...

 

That's one of my gripes with the Lost and Damned's plot in fact : no substantial reason for Billy to get rid of Johnny ...

We can go for the 'bully throwing his tantrum' argument , then in which case it should have been the other way around : why didn't Johnny try to kill or get rid of Billy ? ...

 

 

The whole point of Johnny's character is that he BROKE the usual biker stereotypes. That's what made him so likeable to me. A guy rebelling against society, and then rebelling against the rebelling stereotype.

 

Some are going to define such character depth as being 'whiny' or a 'wannabe' and if you don't like him because that's your immediate perception and not your taste sure you are more than entitled to that opinion. It's pretty clear throughout the plot why Johnny has the respect he has regardless of his stereotype breaking.

 

I'm not surprised that an exception to the already rare 'One Percent' trope mentality gains even lesser fans and attention ...

 

It makes sense Johnny's fanbase is minimal or nonexistent compare to the other GTA protagonist , it fits the current modern template ...

 

I would be terrified if it wasn't the case really ...

 

I was glad to see that arrogant bastard die by the hands of a deranged sociopath.

 

That's not the point , we aren't saying that Johnny is a 'holier than thou killer' than can't be so easily dispatched by the psychopath that emerges out of the street corner ; we're pondering as to why such a cheap event managed to took place at all ...

 

We can argue that the whole point verges precisely on the fact that there is no "justifiable reason at all" as to what occurred , both in Johnny's character shift And to Trevor's overall character trope ...

 

But not only it disappointed people , but it also could have been avoided clean and simple ...

 

If Rockstar wanted to emphasize that there is no glory to be had in wanting to be part of an outlaw drug dealing murdering biker gang ... then , it's almost as if it is something of a misplaced public message ; not only is the audience supposed to know already that the point of the Lost and Damned was not to paint a flawless picture to this outcast lifestyle , but why have the most unjustifiable person in the universe to place the final nail on the coffin ? ...

 

It could practically provoke the opposite effect , where now people hang out more sympathy for the outlaw bikers than to the hobo lunatic ...

Since both characterizes a status of careless , no-responsibility and f-you-all who messes with my vibe , why even bother have one bite the other's ass ? why replace one with another ? ...

 

Trevor? Deeper than Niko?

 

 

BURY ME WHERE THE COYOTES ROAM

 

Actually I can't totally buy the idea that Niko had depth to him ...

This is a protagonist who vows to accomplish this one goal that has been troubling his conscience for years , but instead of just sit by and wait for the 'shadow government' organization to deliver him that special someone , he goes around town , meeting more shady people , bargaining his fees as a hitman , causing more chaos in the city , and in the end not only he finds no reward in his quest , but the new friends he made while waiting for his unsatisfying vengeful quest conclusion , all ends up biting him in the ass one way or another ! ...

Now while I thought the irony of Drako retorting Niko by asking him "how much you charged to kill people" was brilliant , i'm not too sure if it is a case of storytelling brilliance or an intentional irony made to justify the rest of the dragged-out tale ...

 

The revenge/deal ending never even 'needed' to happen had Niko just sat by and waited rather than going around killing people around town , and i'm not sure if that Is a case of story to gameplay segregation , or missions gameplay came out first and story was patched over latter ...

 

In any case , the depth in Niko's character is too flexible to be profound , his mannerism shifts from one situation to another , almost as if he was just an avatar that developers wanted to make for the players to easily explore the whole world around him instead , where the other characters matters more than to Niko's own personal behavior ...

   

 

It's a realistic turn of events after the Alderney Chapter of The Lost was screwed over by it's own members and left Johnny depressed and tired of life. He went to LS, became a meth addict, and got his skull bashed in by an unpredictable drunk psychopath with anger management issues.

 

It's too easy an argument to say that past events traumatized this character too much , place a five year skip to make things appear more reasonable , and shove out a complete different character in the process , and the fans work they way out reasonably that "hmm , you know , with all the stuff he been through , after five years , it only make sense for him to end up like that!" ...

 

No , too easy to just conclude with "it's life , deal with it" ...

 

I wonder what Scott Hill , Johnny Klebitz's voice mo-cap actor , has to say ...

It's not like he voices in a ton of projects every year , no , the role of Johnny is all he was ever asked to do ...

Surely , he must have at least the slightest opinion on the character he portrayed ? ...

  

 

 


Sadly for us, there is a greater portion of the gaming and GTA audience that gives a f*ck about planes and killing hookers than realism and a good story. Hence, why valid CJ in brown and ugly San Andreas got more love than Vercetti in glamorous Vice City. Why Luis with an attack chopper and an AA-12 got more attention than the deep and morally driven Johnny.
This isn't WRONG for players to favor this, it's just not MY preference.

A game I played recently really put this into perspective; Hotline Miami. The story, essentially, is an anti-story. Without giving a lot away (go play it, it was awesome) its story is deliberately flawed and bland to tell you at the end that if you were expecting a story from a game with already good mechanics, than you're not really doing it right.
While I ULTIMATELY disagree with this thesis of theirs, it was a very interesting and new perspective, and I know that the story driven game is becoming SUCH a niche genre; hence why games like The Last of Us are so prided for their stories. I didn't think it was anything special, but there's less competition for that genre now.

 

 

Funnily enough , I actually prefer Carl Johnson's journey in putting to terms with his past "running away from situations I don't like" , than Tommy's "after fifteen years in prison , i'm going to take all the worth of this city and own a share in every major business , because this town is full of idiots and their money is mine to take anyway , oh , and to hell with my boss" ...

It's all the more interesting considering how Johnny and Tommy are in fact the same archetype of protagonist GTA has , except Johnny's motives seems more plausible and relatable :

 

Type I: the remorseless hitman who works for and against his employers , as long as one pays , and hypocritically despise being betrayed : Claude and Niko Bellic ...

Type II: mass murder with great interest in making money above all else , and has personal matters to settle with the 'big boss' that dragged them into the criminal underworld in the first place , but nonetheless has open heart for loyal and valuable friends : Tommy and Johnny ...

Type III: the one with severe family issues that needs to be settled , as well as severe disliking for the coke business , and finally has personal conflicts with corrupt figures of authority : Carl Johnson and Victor Vance ...

Type IV: loyal to the end to their employer , even though the elderly boss may not always be the best judge of character and always makes the protagonist's life difficult by having to go deal with numerous situations that he himself did not provoke , to the point where even the main antagonist has more beef with the protagonist's boss than the protagonist himself , but hey , you can't beat friendship ! Toni Cipriani and Luis Fernando Lopez ...

Type IV also coincidentally features my least favorite GTAs yet ...

 

Speaking of Hotline Miami , ever heard or seen Errant Signal's video essays ? ...

 

Oh lord i'm only half way through Last of Us and I kept hoping things would improve , but now you just shattered all my expectations ...

Which begs the question , what was all the praises about ?! ...

 

Why are people posting in a TLaD forum to say how much they disliked TLaD?

Oh the attention-seeking trolls...

 

I won't feign to understand the idea of clicking and reading through a topic in spite of already having a mind set and knowing that it can't be opened to new perspective , and then posting regardless ...

 

It does increase the view counts and size of your topic though ! ...

 

You all need to take a f*cking chill pill, it's just a game and just a character, i liked johnny as well, thought i wouldn't because i don't like biker things that much but i did and i did really like him as a character but guys seriously you are being dramatic about it, if cj died or michael died or franklin i wouldn't really care because it's just a game, bit of a disappointment yes but wouldn't go f*cking a-wall about it especially if that's it your not playing GTA V because johnny died in a inhumane way, seriously if that's the case grow up.

 

It's not like we're carving Johnny's name or the Lost's motto on our foreheads or printing tattoo homages on our arse cheeks , or sewing a Trevor plushy doll with customizable outfits and then proceed to ripping it apart or burning it or cooking it or eating it ...

 

But for once that we make a topic that doesn't revolve around a stupid gameplay question for the fiftieth time , can't we at least discuss about something that doesn't sum up to "I cried! why is this happening?! is there an alternative ending hidden somewhere?!!" ... ? ...

 

 

B. It set up Trevor to be a pyschopathic asshole. If you remember in Dan Housers interviews he noted that they wanted to create an effect between Michael and Trevor in which you would say hate Trevor and be on Michael's side then back to Trevor's side. Now I think they failed at that because I hated Trevor and Michael as characters but that was still the effect they were going for. I can not think of a better way of setting Trevor up as a bad person than by killing Johnny K in the way he did; except maybe killing Niko and Roman in a similar manner.

 

C. Johnny did not deserve a better death. While Johnny was moral he was still a mass murderer. There are hundreds of broken families without fathers, brothers, uncles, and sons because of his actions in: Off Route, Buyers Market, Marta Full of Grace, Shifting Weight, and Get Lost. Those were just good cops doing there job to protect society from crazy mass murders and drug dealers like Trevor who were gunned down so Johnny would not have to face the legal consequences of his actions. Let alone when he killed Arthur Stubbs or kidnapped Roman.

 

Those were all bad moral decisions that Johnny made, and so to me his death was fitting. Just think if your father was a random cop for the LCPD and Johnny killed him in the line of duty, or if your dad was the helicopter pilot for Arthur Stubbs or limo driver who got caught in the way, or if Arthur Stubbs was your family member who you loved and was a good man and did everything he could to help others through charity.

 

Johnny deserved what he got.

 

Not only was Point C an argument not-exclusively applied to Johnny Klebitz , but it contradicts Point B:

if Johnny deserves his pitiful death as a karmic retaliation for all the wrongs he did , then Trevor is like a patron saint that deserves the key to the city ! ... But you point out that it isn't the case because Trevor is intentionally set up as a bad person , so how is that going to help us feel that he is a psychotic asshole if he is introduced by killing another mass murderer that is caught unguarded ?  ...

 

In that case it doesn't feel any different than Niko signing on the police car's wanted list and goes off doing vigilante works by eliminating other 'bad people' , but that's not really the point with Trevor is it ? ...

 

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Grievous
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#154

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:25 PM

 

Discussing a part of the game storyline is considered acting like a drama queen? news to me.  :sarcasm:


You're not discussing a part of the game storyline, you're whining about the way a character died. I'm not trying to be rude brother, I'm just saying it's not worth watching. Just say "Damn, that's f*cked up" & move on lol.

 

 

"Whoa ... that's heavy, man."

 

But if Trevor makes it out alive, one of the DLCs for GTAV should put you in the shoes of Johnny's brother, Michael. He could come to LS to avenge his brother's death. He's a military man - a Captain, no less -  and thus would make a decent protagonist (having the necessary skills to get sh*t done). I think it would be a good way to take Johnny's crappy end and do something with it, as well as make sense in the world of GTA. You go on a warpath and you're bound to piss off the wrong people eventually. That's a pretty common theme in the series. And for once we'd have a protagonist on a mission we could identify with. 

 

What ? No ! No no no , that would go into a too standard/banal matter ! ...

After what they dished out , it would be pathetic to see Rockstar pull out a cop-out move and have us play a protagonist on to a revenge quest for Johnny , for Rockstar to right the wrongs set by their previous effort in creating a new protagonist specifically for a case scenario they themselves rolled out ? no ! ...

What's done is done , but make the best out of it instead ! ...

 

If they killed one mass murderer with another even less hygienic psychopath , then follow the progressive downward route ... and give us Angels of Death on their endless rampage ! ...

 

Controversy as they endlessly orchestrates kidnapping , prostitution business , merchandising , online scam , fresh positive public image , corrupt the press , 'no gangsta crap' ...

 

Or , have Michael Klebitz join the Angels of Death ...

Weird , but then again , we've just seen weirder ...

 

 

Trevor was right to do what he did, because the Johnny we knew and loved was already dead. A character arc can be viewed as a transformative journey, where the principal protagonist either succeeds or recedes. Johnny had a number of flaws, he had a prior drug-addiction hooked to his unstable relationship with Ashley. In the five years between TLaD and V, Johnny, as a character, hit a recession. He was an unrecognisable meth-tweaker who had gotten back together with Ashley. I loved Johnny, easily my favourite protagonist in the IV trinity, but when a character succumbs to their weaknesses and doesn't overcome their flaws, well, then they're going to die.

 

Don't forget that GTA Online is a prequel (so to speak), set a few months before V. I have no doubt in my mind we'll get a bit more of an insight into exactly what happened to Johnny through our online characters.

 

Again , I don't buy the "five years is enough to change any man" argument ...

I don't find it false , but it's the easiest way out they could cook up , even to a character they supposedly disliked : if Rockstar's own writers didn't like the Lost and Damned and its protagonist , then why such an easy 'kill them all' move ? they would have put Johnny on the interactive torture chair instead ...

 

As for GTA Online ... I heard it followed in the immediate aftermath of the single player ? ...

 

Did we got contradictory statements or is Rockstar still keeping it under wraps ? ...

 

 

 

 

he was still a mass murderer

Like every other GTA protagonist. I don't see this as a valid argument.

 

It's a valid argument because mass murderers do not deserve a hero's death, they deserve to be stomped out by crackheads, and Johnny got what he deserved. Regardless of if you like Johnny as a character,he was a horrible person who did horrible things, as I've already stated in my post above in great detail. 

 

 

I'm not necessarily as against the being "stomped out by a crackhead" part as the part where Johnny himself turned ill-meth addict ...

 

It's like if Niko Bellic had a sex-change after the end of his story in Liberty City , and you can argue that "five years is a long time , especially when one of your last living friends is a transsexual , you are bound to look at things his way and inspire from his lifestyle" and that would make sense too , no ? ...

 

Or Carl Johnson saying "ah whatever man , grove street needs to get redeveloped from the ground up to get rid of its drug and gang war addled outlook, think for kids!" and boards a military jet and start sending barrages of missiles all over the neighborhood , then a cop glitched-jumped and pulled Carl out of the pilot scene and 'busted' him , while Sweet and Kendl goes out barbecue style ...

 

Of course Carl would deserve to get arrested for his crime against humanity , but , what just happened that lead to this conclusion is messy beyond belief ...

 


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#155

Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

 

Again , I don't buy the "five years is enough to change any man" argument ...

 

I don't find it false , but it's the easiest way out they could cook up , even to a character they supposedly disliked : if Rockstar's own writers didn't like the Lost and Damned and its protagonist , then why such an easy 'kill them all' move ? they would have put Johnny on the interactive torture chair instead ...

 

As for GTA Online ... I heard it followed in the immediate aftermath of the single player ? ...

 

Did we got contradictory statements or is Rockstar still keeping it under wraps ? ...

 

 

 

It's less "five years is enough to change any man," and more "that's what a hardcore meth addiction will do to you." We already knew of Johnny's prior addiction, which in a way, was always more of an addiction to Ashley. After all, he got off meth when he broke it off with Ashley after Billy f*cked her prior to the events of TLaD. He had an uneasy relationship with Ashley throughout TLaD, it's not totally unreasonable they patched things up based on false promises and things spiralled downwards after that.

 

If you read The Liberty Tree (online in V before the Mr. Philips mission) it says The Lost have been practically non-existent for 5 years - what does this tell us? Johnny, the glue that held the gang together, managed to stay out of it for as long as he did. His friends stuck with him, like they always said they would, through the bad times, until eventually, he reformed the gang in Stab City/Los Santos. He went back to the gang after he quit on them, that's character recession right there. Even if you don't buy into the whole drug-addict, Johnny is a weak-tweaker now, you can't deny he went against what he was meant to do.

 

I also don't see it as a "kill them all" move as much as a fitting ending for bikers. Both Jim and Jason died with relative ease in IV while riding on the back of their hogs, while Brian also died trying to escape (if you threw a grenade through the window). Are Terry and Clay really any tougher than those guys? As I said though, I really liked TLaD, that mission tore me up while I was playing it. But it works, I don't find it misplaced at all. 

 

GTA Online definitely takes place prior to V's story. Don't know where you heard otherwise. 

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#156

Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

"That's gonna come bite me in the ass... karmically speaking!"


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#157

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:02 PM

 

 

he was still a mass murderer

Like every other GTA protagonist. I don't see this as a valid argument.

 

It's a valid argument because mass murderers do not deserve a hero's death, they deserve to be stomped out by crackheads, and Johnny got what he deserved. Regardless of if you like Johnny as a character,he was a horrible person who did horrible things, as I've already stated in my post above in great detail. 

 

Put it on Rockstar's checklist to horribly murder Niko, CJ, Tommy, Luis, and the rest of them, eh? Because in the context of fiction in which we're supposed to root for protagonists, they still "deserve it", right?


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#158

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

 

It's less "five years is enough to change any man," and more "that's what a hardcore meth addiction will do to you." We already knew of Johnny's prior addiction, which in a way, was always more of an addiction to Ashley. After all, he got off meth when he broke it off with Ashley after Billy f*cked her prior to the events of TLaD. He had an uneasy relationship with Ashley throughout TLaD, it's not totally unreasonable they patched things up based on false promises and things spiralled downwards after that.

 

If you read The Liberty Tree (online in V before the Mr. Philips mission) it says The Lost have been practically non-existent for 5 years - what does this tell us? Johnny, the glue that held the gang together, managed to stay out of it for as long as he did. His friends stuck with him, like they always said they would, through the bad times, until eventually, he reformed the gang in Stab City/Los Santos. He went back to the gang after he quit on them, that's character recession right there. Even if you don't buy into the whole drug-addict, Johnny is a weak-tweaker now, you can't deny he went against what he was meant to do.

 

I also don't see it as a "kill them all" move as much as a fitting ending for bikers. Both Jim and Jason died with relative ease in IV while riding on the back of their hogs, while Brian also died trying to escape (if you threw a grenade through the window). Are Terry and Clay really any tougher than those guys? As I said though, I really liked TLaD, that mission tore me up while I was playing it. But it works, I don't find it misplaced at all. 

 

GTA Online definitely takes place prior to V's story. Don't know where you heard otherwise. 

 

 

So we can't say that Rockstar didn't gave a damn about Johnny if there seems to be a deliberate purpose in wanting to prove that all human minds are subject to change and back down on promises made to themselves.

 

It's Victor Vance and his drug empire all over again ! ...

 

Except that in the context of "The Lost and Damned" there wasn't even an ounce of doubt that Johnny will return on his principles and compromise them. It was a point that stuck its way all the to the ending, and now we're supposed to see "well guess what, I retract what I once said, pass me some crystal sugar!", and nod with approval? that deep down, we kind of saw it coming anyway?

 

Really ? was the character's recession something that we have to take it for granted ? ...

It still sounds cheap.

 

I'll repeat however that it 'makes sense', a lot. But it still lacks a proper justification to pull out a stunt like that, a shift in character motivation, something that wasn't nuanced, only asked that we 'guess' it from the recess of our minds, and furthermore, it doesn't seem to add more meaning other than "drugs are evil".

The Lost's eventual dragged out downfall might seem 'real', but that's not enough. It's not enough to just squash it all out on the idea that "it was bound to happen".

 

It would have seemed more plausible that they were simply locked all away in jail, or sentenced to death in some lost Arizona prison. I mean really, not one single camera surveillance caught the Lost red handed when they butchered the entire staff of the Alderney Penitentiary? Are the law enforcement in Grand Theft Auto universe so inept that characters can only ever kill themselves by wagging senseless dispute on each other or become drug addicts and fell to the trash bin?

 

Just checking up on the web , I still find contradicting news regarding 'when' does GTA Online takes place.

Though , if it does take place 'before' , I wonder if it wouldn't actually be interesting if new players play through the online portion first before tackling single player ...

Or then again no , if Johnny pops up online , it might ruin his single player cameo to people who didn't knew about it ... I don't know.

 

"That's gonna come bite me in the ass... karmically speaking!"

 

Well that's funny , much funnier than before , in a post-GTAV way ...


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#159

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:43 AM

It was lazy, crunched up writing. Anyone defending it is just trying too hard to be a fanboy. All the protags are scumbags, but it doesn't mean Johnny "deserved" it. That makes no sense.


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#160

Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:17 AM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 03 October 2013 - 04:58 AM.

My brother started GTA V for the first time today. He played the first two missions of TLaD a couple years ago; biker stuff wasn't really his cup of tea so he quit it.

But even today he asked me "Hey, why the hell did Trevor kill Johnny from GTA 4?"

I said "They probably just wanted to introduce Trevor's character or something."

He responded "Wow, that's pretty stupid how they did it."

 

Even someone who didn't identify with Johnny or the Lost and Damned as a whole spotted what a flawed writing move that was. He said it pretty sincerely, and my brother doesn't even get heavily involved in games' stories. 

 

So again, it added really nothing to those who didn't identify with Johnny, and was a huge negative for those who did.

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#161

Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:49 PM Edited by Grievous, 29 September 2013 - 01:51 PM.

If we're going for the logic that Johnny will go against his words by returning to Ashley's arms and fall back into drug addiction, then surely we could have also imagined Johnny going against 'other' principles of his, no?

 

"I'm not in the kidnapping business, dude." Five years later BAM , the Lost MC operates exclusively in kidnapping and extortion, as a sly remark to 'lost and found'.

Or, reversely, Johnny feels so much guilt over the kidnapping situation, he and Ashley operates a private investigation bureau where they do vigilante work and look for missing people, knowing that the cops will never get the job done and behave as outlaw patriots, in service to the country as a potentially misguided feel of obligation.

 

"I'm president of a burned out house and some broken ass brothers. It's dead man, it's over" *presses button* WRONG! Johnny immediately jumps onto the nearby fire truck , which there are plenty not far from the clubhouse , and goes on pulling out the fire , plan to redecorate the club house from scratch , but first make a scavenger hunt in the subways looking for Jim's money briefcase , chase and beat a couple of hobos who turns out to be operating a terrorist network in the sewers , and then either emerge safe and sound out and rebuild the Lost clubhouse into a museum/merchandising office , or in their selfless plan to save the city from the terrorist bum network , they flooded the sewers along with them ... ...

 

Spoiler

 

And finally, why didn't Johnny become Stubbs' personal bodyguard/full time hitman ? ...

If Johnny can afford to have another go at Ashley and the drugs , would it be so far fetched that he keeps on working for the backstabbing scheming politician ? that too would have made Johnny a former shell of his self , by turning back on the supposed codes he so boldly wishes to endure , acts of principle he uses as arguments to turn down Stubbs' offer. He could have easily say "you know what, there's nothing more American than to have our full confidence and faith on our beloved congressman" during these five years.

He could also have both ways; taking meth again And working for unscrupulous politicians that needed some dirty work done, because hey, apparently it Is a big deal to show that Johnny will end up go against the things he thought he could stand for.


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#162

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:33 AM

I saw the part in 5 with Johnny on YouTube. I had read about it in the comments while the commercials were on, to save me the shock when I got to the part in the game. It actually pissed me off too. I did not like how Rockstar did this part. I'm not surprised they killed Johnny, after all this is a Rockstar game and they seem to like to kill off characters, but I did not like them killing off Johnny. I understand the story, but good grief. It seems to me that Johnny wasn't their favorite character.

 

After the part with Johnny and Trevor, I didn't like Trevor so much. I know it's just a game and all, but I think this part could have been done better. A gang war between Trevor and The Lost would have been better, and in the end of the shotout war let Johnny go.

 

This part does sound like something a fan would write who wasn't a Johnny fan.

 

I'm figuring Niko and Luis are next. That will really get me. I'm a Niko and Luis fan.

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dp415263
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#163

Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:05 AM

Not only they killed Johnny but they Killed Ashley Butler too


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#164

Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:49 PM

If the Online portion does take place before the single player, and Johnny and the Lost is there to do business with ... what are they going to ask us to do ? help feed their addiction while Johnny offers Ashley as a reward for the services ? ...

Or on the contrary your goal is to help Angus escape the madhouse.

 

I also hope the Lost will not make an appearance as resuscitated zombies in one of them silly-themed DLCs they might end up doing just for Trevor to drive a monster truck armed with spikes on wheels and flame thrower to decimate the whole gang for a second time, culminating in a fist fight with Johnny on top of the mountains that ends with a free fall quick time event button mashing killing moves.

 

...

 

On the other hand ...

 

Spoiler


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#165

Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:09 AM

GTA Online 100% confirmed to take place "a few months before the events of the story."

http://www.rockstarg...o-and-more.html

Here's hoping for the Lost and maybe some clarity. 


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#166

Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:33 PM Edited by Grievous, 01 October 2013 - 03:34 PM.

Reports of corrupted save files on the single player makes me want to hang back a bit.

 

Spoiler


Peachrocks
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#167

Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:30 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 01 October 2013 - 05:32 PM.

Reports of corrupted save files on the single player makes me want to hang back a bit.

 

Spoiler

 

I hear ya man, on both counts. Online LOOKS interesting but I generally play it far less than single player content.

 

On topic, I kind of hope The Lost don't feature in online. Hell even in story mode GTA post Trevor's Mary Sue moment, The Lost appear as random mooks to be slaughtered in random events and such and I really hope that's not the extent they appear in online.


wolfrizen
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#168

Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:36 PM Edited by wolfrizen, 01 October 2013 - 05:37 PM.

Lost for life! R* can suck a dick for killing off the greatest protagonist of GTA! Also Trevor is nothing more than a psychotic cannibalistic asshole who f*cks guys, so think about that before you put down Johnny!

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Deadly Target
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#169

Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

I was hoping Rockstar would let us take missions from the Lost in GTA:O to learn more about them... instead we're forced to
Spoiler


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#170

Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:14 PM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 04 October 2013 - 06:14 PM.

My one friend, who ACTUALLY got into the COMPLETELY broken GTA Online says all he's experienced so far is being forced to kill Lost patchmembers for meth or something, absolutely no story clarity yet.

Most missions are orchestrated by Lamar and his cronies... Even if R* doesn't give a f*ck about bikers or the Lost in general, I wish they'd at LEAST realize the entire GTA audience isn't the San Andreas and black, trashy street gang fanboys...

The amount of mafias and MCs in the Social Club crews is quite immense.

 

AND GIVE US A LEATHER JACKET FOR ONLINE CLOTHING WITHOUT FAGGY RACING STRIPES PAINTED ON THEM, PLEASE.

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#171

Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:33 AM

My one friend, who ACTUALLY got into the COMPLETELY broken GTA Online says all he's experienced so far is being forced to kill Lost patchmembers for meth or something, absolutely no story clarity yet.
Most missions are orchestrated by Lamar and his cronies... Even if R* doesn't give a f*ck about bikers or the Lost in general, I wish they'd at LEAST realize the entire GTA audience isn't the San Andreas and black, trashy street gang fanboys...
The amount of mafias and MCs in the Social Club crews is quite immense.
 
AND GIVE US A LEATHER JACKET FOR ONLINE CLOTHING WITHOUT FAGGY RACING STRIPES PAINTED ON THEM, PLEASE.

I bet the amount of mafia and MC themed crews are numerous. I agree on the clothing too. Hell let us have Lost outfits for Lost MC themed crews (and counter missions :p)

You do get missions from Lester so it's not all Lamar style gang banging (though I'm okay with Lamar).

I played a fair bit today and yeah as I feared the Lost have been demoted to mook status. Still I got me my Hexer and rode off into the sunset... and into a garage. I'm avoiding anti Lost missions if possible.

Maybe the people in favour of this thread might want to form a Lost themed crew of sorts.

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#172

Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:04 AM Edited by DarkKingBernard, 05 October 2013 - 10:07 AM.

Hell let us have Lost outfits for Lost MC themed crews (and counter missions :p)

I'd prefer outfits from the Angels Of Death

 

Apart from the main characters, the Lost members looked meh.


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#173

Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:07 AM Edited by Majestic81, 05 October 2013 - 10:40 AM.

I read that in gta online you can ally yourself with some biker gangs. is this not true?

 

@Peachrocks Who says there arent any?  :p Clicky


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#174

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:11 PM Edited by Peachrocks, 05 October 2013 - 04:18 PM.

I read that in gta online you can ally yourself with some biker gangs. is this not true?
 
@Peachrocks Who says there arent any?  :p Clicky

I never did. I just meant making one for the people here or something. Also I don't think you can ally yourself with biker gangs. I did pay the Lost a friendly visit but couldn't interact with them. Some of them said some funny things though :p

Still if you are in, it's worth a look :). Especially as Jim's treasure position is open, I am definitely the thinking kind of maniac.

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#175

Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:47 PM

I'm a HUGE fan the TLaD.

Johnny is one of my all-time favorite characters.

I don't like how R* just threw away Johnny like 'oh he's a meth head now! *STOMP STOMP DIE*' like he was some sort of side character nobody cared about, like the DLC never had a fan base and they only played through it to play GTA IV.

 

But, IMO, we got one last line, one last message that told us Johnny died a long time ago.

Before he dies, he apologizes to Trevor, saying things are 'messed up';apologizes for him sexing HIS GIRL.

This conveyed to me that the Johnny K we knew and loved was dead. This was just the slab of meat that Johnny went through hell with. It tells us that Johnny lost himself after the Clubhouse burned down; when he burned it, he burned himself.

 

We never see Johnny take off that jacket. He was never done with the Lost. Plus he was literally the ONLY thing keeping him from drugs, everyone else seemed to do them, even his love, Ash. There was nothing for him that was pure, anywhere. Ash even says they can ride off into the sunset, far away from LC.

If Johnny didn't fall into everything with her, where was he going to go? There was nothing for him anywhere. No kind of life.

 

As much as I want to believe he can go somewhere he can get away from it, there was no other future for him. I loved Johnny as a character, but we all knew this was the only future he had. Riding off with Ash, who was hopelessly hooked, and Johnny would get hooked, too. As he had no voices of reason. Nobody told him no. His own brothers were on it, nobody would tell him not to.

 

Not to mention in 2004 he road to LS, the branch could've started a long time ago and had a meth farm when Johnny got their, and he had nowhere to go so he just fell into it all, knowing he had nowhere else to go.

 

Nevertheless, he deserved a better death IMO, not just stomp stomp die (though again, it seems like they didn't do to shows us in the end, he was no hero, just another meth head in Johnny's body).

 

RIP Johnny K

Brothers for life, Lost forever

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#176

Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:51 AM

Nevertheless, he deserved a better death IMO, not just stomp stomp die (though again, it seems like they didn't do to shows us in the end, he was no hero, just another meth head in Johnny's body).

 

RIP Johnny K

Brothers for life, Lost forever

 

It is in how he died and the fact we are forced to play as Trevor that makes this thing so bad. You don't build up a protagonist and tear him down like that, it's mediocre writing because it leaves your audience who identified with them feeling cheated.

 

The meth to me seemed like a plot device so they could make Johnny weak and set up their new fan fiction character to be a 'badass' because they engineered him killing another protagonist.

 

Johnny's character and writing were all over the place in that scene and I don't care what plot device you use to explain it, it's just bad writing. There are loads of better ways they could have got the message across that he was a shadow of his former self and they could have killed him any numerous amount of ways that were better than this.

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#177

Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:21 AM

Welp, going along with the total lack of biker clothing, the fact it took me four days to get in, and my Rep 20 character with over $200,000 worth of stuff getting deleted, there's no mention of the Lost or any major Lost characters in multiplayer, BEYOND JUST KILLING THEM FOR TREVOR.

 

We're lost and damned ourselves, guys. Rockstar completely killed one of my favorite games in the most disrespectful manner. I guess it's time to buy some green Grove Street colors and go do some yoga, guys. That's totally what GTA's about now.


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#178

Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:27 AM

^^ I don't like it either but at least hey gave us something to get it across to us. He deserved a whole different death.

 

^We don't know that yet. Nobody can get anywhere with Online right now and a lot is undiscovered


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#179

Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:34 AM

I now find it very unlikely that there are pro Lost missions in online. Even if there are, they aren't going to cover up the mess they've made for this.

 

I'm not giving up on The Lost and its characters no matter how Lost and Damned we are and I think a lot of people are less than pleased with how things went considering how many Lost themed crews that are out there on the social club.


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#180

Posted 07 October 2013 - 06:16 AM

http://metro.co.uk/2...bikers-3959515/

 

I think theres more to it in online than just killing lost guys.





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