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Screw you, Rockstar... GTA V *SPOILERS*

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Drunken Cowboy
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#1

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:35 AM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 08 October 2013 - 06:42 PM.

Is anyone as f*cking PISSED off as I am that Johnny got killed? They didn't even give the man who broke into Alderny State Correctional a decent death.

Did it occur to Rockstar that the protagonist of a DLC purchased by millions was actually LIKED? And Clay and Terry, that was just bullsh*t overkill.

Why Johnny? There was nothing to be gained from killing him. If they are only going to have a reoccurring character on the screen for two minutes, their purpose is USUALLY to be an exciting homage to something the players loved, yet he, Terry, and Clay served no purpose other than being f*cking killed.

 

Why not kill Luis, anyway? I don't remember anyone liking the uptight, monotone, zombie douchebag.

 

f*ck you, Rockstar. That was a f*cking cheap move.

 

 

Initial venting aside... Topics arisen since this was posted...

 

- It's more or less HOW Johnny was killed, by who, in what fashion, under what circumstances, and how Johnny received it more than the fact that he WAS killed. 

 

- It's the WHY, we feel this effect could have been conveyed in the same way without the sacrifice of Johnny and his old crew.

 

- It violates everything we were meant to believe about Johnny and the Lost in The Lost and Damned.

 

- It either made Trevor a drag or completely ruined him as a playable character in GTA V. We did not get many reasons to sympathize or just like him during the campaign anyway, but this really pushed it over the edge.

 

- Bringing Johnny back was unnecessary, poster Grievous said:

The only ending route that made sense was the one we precisely saw at the end of Lost and Damned , with Johnny's three final steps at committing social 'suicide' ; storming a government facility to kill a childhood friend , torching his own home , saying farewell to friends on the phone and sitting on that dirty bed in Brian's safehouse as incessant and loud death metal music rings over his head.

 

There was no 'need' to bring Johnny back and show people how 'drugs are bad! even if life all falls apart you should never take it as a last resort! and don't touch drug addicted women either!' it would have been akin to have an ambulance arriving and reviving Victor Vance, but on the way back to the hospital the ambulance goes off route and flips upside down and crash and burn and explodes. It's overkill.

 

- To a lesser extent, but still a present argument, we feel that the presence of Johnny, the Lost, and maybe even the Angels of Death would have led to a much more interesting environment in Blaine County.

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Majestic81
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#2

Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:08 AM Edited by Majestic81, 18 September 2013 - 11:41 AM.

Found that very disappointing as well, i care a lot about the story and characters in video games that i play. and that there didnt make any sense. for me its like reading a book where the character in it is a total badass who held his own principles and in the second book the writers decided to sh*t all over that and have him appear as a complete opposite to what he originally was. killing everything the audience liked about the character. AND about the previous book.
 
im okay with him getting killed but WTF R*, at least write it in a way that makes sense. he got back with ashley , moved to LS and started taking meth again? anyone who played TLAD and finished it knows that this is utter bullsh*t. so yeah i dont know what was going on through R* head when they wrote that but my guess is that they did it because one of those possibilities:
 
1. They didnt like Johnny that much.
 
2. They wanted to give us a reason to hate Trevor or show us his true personalty (possibly so we can prepare ourselves for V endgame), and whats a better way to dislike him than have him kill a playable protagonist? anyway Niko was too much of a big character to kill. Luis, no one cared about that much, and so johnny was the black sheep.
 
3. They had too much pisswassers when they wrote that part. :p
 
Either way its a game, but it still annoys the fans who enjoyed TLAD.
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LordWieslaw
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#3

Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

F * ck Rockstar, after the which introduced such nonsense. Indeed, he could be an interesting topic of Lost MC, Angels of Death, etc. In this climate of California would fit biker gangs, like the Sons of Anarchy.


dangr
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#4

Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:32 AM Edited by dangr, 18 September 2013 - 11:32 AM.

Why the f*ck did you post that here????
I've finished GTA TLAD but I didn't even buy GTA V.

At least write that the spoiler is from GTA V. Damn! 


Majestic81
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#5

Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:39 AM

Why the f*ck did you post that here????
I've finished GTA TLAD but I didn't even buy GTA V.

At least write that the spoiler is from GTA V. Damn! 

He said GTA V spoilers in the title, you have no right to complain.

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Scars
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#6

Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:12 PM

I just got to that part too, can't explain how pissed i got. I really like Johnny and wtf they did with him... he acted so different like a pussy, it made me so fcking pissed, Trevor fcking his girl and then beating him up WTFFFF, i actually let the bikers kill Trevor several times during the mission to avange!

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TheUnholy
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#7

Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

Although in first, I thought Trevor could be a cool protag (because he's a non-tried protag who's a drughead and a junkie sociapath) but after he killed Johnny in a kind of brutal way, I started to really dislike him. But I can say "protag killing protag" is a good and a developed fiction, never tried by Rockstar in GTA but in my opinon, Johnny has been one of the coolest protags in GTA and it's too sad to see him go. At least, I always though Johnny (or Niko, Luis and Victor, I know Niko and Luis are no dead, but I'm talking about bad guys who are actually good guys) should have a better life or a better, less painful and a more peaceful death. Dude, Johnny was a good guy, he really went through serious tragedies (his chapter leader betrayed and tried to kill him; his girlfriend cheated him with his chapter leader, Billy and she's a total whore that is high on crystal meth; one of his brothers got crippled; his best friend was killed for nothing; one of his "brothers" was a total pig and an ass licker... Do I need to tell more?), he should have had a better life but no some f*cking junkie sociapath needed to come and kill him in a basic but a cold blooded way (dude, Johnny made a raid into a prison facility, killed a prisoner that is about to get under Witness Protection Program but he just got grabbed in throat, throwed to floor, a beer bottle is smashed in his face and his skull is crashed by several hard steps). Although I can say it's a good fiction, I am really pissed off about Johnny's death, it didn't make any sense in most. Also I didn't feel any character reflection of Johnny. In TLAD Johnny was a real badass, hardcore but in V, Johnny is showed as a pussy, mostly. "Protag killing protag" is a good fiction but I realized R* sucked when reflecting Johnny's characteristic and it didn't make any sense in most. Also Johnny was a good character, he will always have places in our hearts. R.I.P Johnny. R.I.P The Lost (yeah, Trevor also puts a sudden end to Lost too), The Lost Forever! And Trevor, f*ck you then.

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Drunken Cowboy
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#8

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:18 PM Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 18 September 2013 - 06:22 PM.

I think the biggest mistake made by Rockstar is their collective assumptions.

"Everyone loved TBoGT, so they must love Luis and the story!"

No, the most of us liked a good screw-around game after our serious GTA IV story. Automatic explosive shotguns were fun, but the story and cast of characters were forced and God-awful.

It's almost like the HD Universe's San Andreas equivalent, more focused on the mayhem as opposed to the simulation and story, but at least CJ and his cronies were good characters.

 

"Hmmm, not as many sales on TLaD, people must have hated everything about it."

TLaD is a more select game, kinda like Vice City. Its appeal comes from simulation, atmosphere, and a fantastic story and characters.

 

Johnny IS a good protagonist, even if he is a hard man. He has heart, and he cares for the good of his brothers and his club, unlike someone like Luis just fulfilling a job or at least not showing any visible commitment toward it.

AND, Johnny was one tough sumbitch. Him, Terry, and Clay broke into Alderny State Pen., killed dozens of SWAT officers, and rode off into the sunset. Johnny matured, he was implied to have kicked drugs and definitely gained the sense to cut ties with Ashley.

After being beaten to the ground by police, FBI, the Triads, the Mafia, Luis, Niko, and the Angels of Death, you'd think the Lost would catch a break, even after half of them died.

 

But no, I'm glad to see you're in touch with your fan base Rockstar. They collectively killed TLaD's, basically an entire game's cast of characters, which I found shocking with Jim, Billy, and Jason to begin with, but I seriously can't believe Angus is all that's left.

 

Best we can hope for... I don't know, bring Johnny back in a GTA V DLC, with like... I don't know, an eyepatch and a shoe print on his face. We deserve that.


universetwisters
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#9

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:52 PM

Calm down, amigo. Don't flip at rockstar just for killing off a character. Johnny wasn't gods gift to earth, as you claim him to be. He was a dude with flaws, like all of us, and evidently one of his shortcomings was getting back together with ashley, which was a pretty bad move, seeing as his temper over her got him killed.

No word on angus, though
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LordWieslaw
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#10

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:15 PM Edited by LordWieslaw, 18 September 2013 - 07:22 PM.

GTA as a game, will never be the TV series Sons of Anarchy. The storyline crushes GTA series, even if it is good. So SOA is the best. :D


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#11

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:22 PM

Why was he killed? Drama, that's why. Having Trevor brutally murder a former protagonist in his first mission really leaves a good impression of his craziness to the player. He didn't deserve a 'hero's' death, he was just another guy in a world of crime and I'm kinda glad that Rockstar don't treat their characters as invincible. This was much better than just having him be forgotten about for the rest of the franchise's history.

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LordWieslaw
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#12

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:30 PM Edited by LordWieslaw, 18 September 2013 - 07:31 PM.

Why was he killed? Drama, that's why. Having Trevor brutally murder a former protagonist in his first mission really leaves a good impression of his craziness to the player. He didn't deserve a 'hero's' death, he was just another guy in a world of crime and I'm kinda glad that Rockstar don't treat their characters as invincible. This was much better than just having him be forgotten about for the rest of the franchise's history.

In GTA V after the Lost MC, there is not one motorcycle gang. So, WTF!


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#13

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:33 PM

Rockstar should have never crossed the IV era and V era together. I'm not against the idea of killing off old characters but all the IV characters that returned seem like a gimmick. They didn't do anything to progess an important part of the storyline, just cameo appearances.

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#14

Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:59 PM Edited by MarijuanaMonkey, 18 September 2013 - 09:34 PM.

Best we can hope for... I don't know, bring Johnny back in a GTA V DLC, with like... I don't know, an eyepatch and a shoe print on his face. We deserve that.

Nah, man. It won't happen. Trevor really beat Johnny up to death. He smashed his skull and totally blew his brains off. Also if you catch seriously when Trevor confronts Terry, Clay and some other bikers, Trevor pulls a blast of Johnny's brain from his boot and shows it to Johnny's brothers. So don't except Johnny to come back, he's totally dead.

 

I don't know, I got angry because it was Johnny who had been killed. 'Cuz I liked Johnny, he was a bad guy trying to be good, even not trying to be a saint; he never deserved a death like that, he lived so many tragedies, so he should have led a better life or at least better death that is not in the hands of a crank using/dealing redneck sociopath. I can't know what happened to Johnny, did them tragedies happened during TLAD really shake him like that; turning him to a pussy? When you consider Johnny is a guy who made a bloody raid to a prison facility, killed a guy who is about to get under Witness Protection Program and get out of there easily after he is done with there, that's a basic death for him.

 

However I don't deny it is a good and a developed move; "protag killing protag". It is an interesting act but in the meantime I didn't see any sense, also Johnny totally surrended to his fate, it seems like, acted like a real pussy. It was unrealistic of R*, or like I said the past tragedies shook Johnny so bad that he turned into a pussy from a hard badass. Also if I become serious, I always wanted to see such bloody, brutal things in GTA games, so the violence content can be showed much better. If you look at III Era, the games generally lacked these violence laced things, yeah there was some crazy sh*t but I think HD Era is better in reflecting violent side of GTA. Well, torturement of Jim from GTA TLAD was crazy, sparkling someone with a tazer was painful as hell or in TBOGT, Bulgarin threatening Luis with a chopped head of The Cook, that was crazy and scary too. In the end, the unfortunate death of Johnny (a beer smashed in his face, and later he has been stepped several times on the head, so these glass pieces stuck into Johnny's face and later Trevor continued to step on him until he crashed his skull, blowing his brains off), there is a torture scene that is classified as "controversial" (I don't want to give details about it, I didn't play the game but I watched this torture scene) and I can say maybe it's the most violent act we see in a GTA game.

 

I presumed Johnny as one of my favourite protags, so I think this made me angry about this, it was basic but a real brutal death. It is so sad to see you go Johnny, rest in peace, pal.


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#15

Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:05 PM

I think that killing off Johnny was actually a rather clever move by the writers. The purposes of doing so were to provide some shock value and a talking point, both of which have been fulfilled. Whether you agree with their decision or the execution or not, they've gotten people talking.

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#16

Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:46 PM Edited by LordWieslaw, 18 September 2013 - 09:47 PM.

I think that killing off Johnny was actually a rather clever move by the writers. The purposes of doing so were to provide some shock value and a talking point, both of which have been fulfilled. Whether you agree with their decision or the execution or not, they've gotten people talking.

The GTA V has no motorcycle gangs is unrealistic, this game does not go forward.

 

As for the DLC, Kurt Sutter could write the script. It should unscrew death of Terry, or Clay, either make an alternative version of events.


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#17

Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:54 PM

he got the death he had expected; 'saving' Ashley finally proved to be his downfall.  I loved Johnny K, he was awesome but he became a broken man caught up on the past, the way he speaks in his appearance in V sounds broken, he mentions that they all smoke sh*t etc etc, he pretty much sums up that they're all equals, all into drugs, given Trevor's recent discover, wrong place wrong time Johnny boy.


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#18

Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:22 PM

 

I think that killing off Johnny was actually a rather clever move by the writers. The purposes of doing so were to provide some shock value and a talking point, both of which have been fulfilled. Whether you agree with their decision or the execution or not, they've gotten people talking.

The GTA V has no motorcycle gangs is unrealistic, this game does not go forward.

 

As for the DLC, Kurt Sutter could write the script. It should unscrew death of Terry, or Clay, either make an alternative version of events.

 

So what if there's no other motorcycle gangs? I fail to see how that takes anything away from the game. The biker scene isn't the focus of the story. 

 

As for all this talk of unwriting deaths and whatnot, it's stupid? If R* went down that route, they may as well end the story with Michael waking up to reveal that the entire plot was all a dream.


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#19

Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:29 PM Edited by LordWieslaw, 18 September 2013 - 11:29 PM.

 

 

I think that killing off Johnny was actually a rather clever move by the writers. The purposes of doing so were to provide some shock value and a talking point, both of which have been fulfilled. Whether you agree with their decision or the execution or not, they've gotten people talking.

The GTA V has no motorcycle gangs is unrealistic, this game does not go forward.

 

As for the DLC, Kurt Sutter could write the script. It should unscrew death of Terry, or Clay, either make an alternative version of events.

 

So what if there's no other motorcycle gangs? I fail to see how that takes anything away from the game. The biker scene isn't the focus of the story. 

 

As for all this talk of unwriting deaths and whatnot, it's stupid? If R* went down that route, they may as well end the story with Michael waking up to reveal that the entire plot was all a dream.

 

This is unreal.

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#20

Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:42 AM Edited by GúnZinEss, 19 September 2013 - 12:43 AM.

f*ck man, im pretty dissapointed to be honest, he was my favorite GTA character so far, and seeing him this weak in GTAV and how he got murdered is way to much :/

 

i didnt play GTA V yet, but i watched that scene, i couldnt resist when some troll spoiled that here in the forums, and i already hate trevor, so if we get to kill him somehow in the story, i will make sure to make it in a nice, slowly and painful way :p

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#21

Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:57 AM

As much as I loved Johnny, it didn't hit me too hard though it wasn't very pleasant to see. I think the reason why he didn't fight back was because he'd turned into some meth head.

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#22

Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:58 AM Edited by Peachrocks, 19 September 2013 - 05:22 AM.

I had to play the game outright before I seriously commented on this though I've made a few passing comments here and there. I'm not going to spoil anything other than saying that

Spoiler

 

This is quite long but this has been going around my head throughout playing the story and I think about storylines/writing/characters and such way too much :D.

 

Anyway there's a load of things that are really offputting about the whole thing and I cannot understand why Rockstar would do it this way. Killing Johnny? Fine. He was my favourite character, but fine, if you want to make your new protagonist have a fairly big impact but here's the thing, Trevor killed him in a completely cowardly way when Johnny was giving him a break.

 

The result is that almost anyone who liked and identified with Johnny will almost certainly despise Trevor right from the off. Not respect, despise. Do you really want that in a protagonist? I don't get this at all, it's pretty well established throughout the story that Trevor is a crazy lunatic who just does what he feels like. Killing Johnny in this manner was completely unnecessary and it makes Trevor impossible to identify or sympathise with, which is a horrible characteristic in a protagonist. The irony of course is that people who don't give a damn about identifying/sympathising and such may like Trevor but they don't care for identifying with characters and most of them probably don't even watch cutscenes anyway.

 

To make matters worse, he clips Terry and Clay too, characters who we know really well, we know their stories, we know their backgrounds, we know what makes them tick. All of them. Terry's exwife he still loves, the fact he believes the government is run by five men and elections don't mean anything, Clay's army background, his love of sex and women and they get offed like random mooks, not even special mooks, just the random guard who gets a line in a cutscene.

 

At least with Terry and Clay its a bit more of a 'it's a him or me' situation. Had Johnny died this way, in a 'blaze of glory' for lack of better words and Trevor just happened to be the better man at that time, rather than just being offed in such a cowardly way, it wouldn't have left such a bad taste in my mouth throughout the entire story and made me loathe any moment I am forced to play as Trevor.

 

The extra sad irony is that Trevor and Johnny are actually quite similar in their beliefs and although Johnny has a far more stable personality the spirit they both have is very similar. Both characters have been rejected by society, both don't care much for the 'man' and both want to be allowed to be themselves. This may have resulted in people liking Johnny also liking Trevor but any of that was thrown away with this silly move. A similar if not better effect could have been created if he was offed in a different way, showing Johnny being a comparatively broken man could have still being displayed.

 

As for Johnny himself being out of character due to being clearly broken its difficult to say. A key feature or some would view it as a 'weakness' of Johnny's character is that he cares too much. Consider all he's been through.

 

- Horrid upbringing. Hanging with Billy Grey could not possibly be good and there's bits and pieces about it.

- He wanted to be an army man but unlike his brother he didn't go down that path because he believed (correctly) that the army was corrupt and only about the fat cats getting richer rather than 'serving his country' and protecting those he cared about.

- His on/off affair with Ashley boils down to him caring too much about people who he believes are under his 'protection' and of course it is fitting that she would be the death of him.

- The Lost became corrupted by Billy's lunacy and selfishness. Despite the fact it was meant to be a safe haven from the usual temptations of corruption, it was corruption which ended up tearing the gang apart including Brian's grab for power (with Agent Jones manipulating him of course full well knowing what would happen...)

- Jim 'died'. More on this later.

- He had to burn down the clubhouse because it was no longer what he believed in or fought for and felt he had to cut the connections finally so he would stop caring.

 

There's other stuff but that's the main gist. Johnny and to an extent Terry and Clay have had such a horrific and sad life despite obviously having a lot of talent and skill and it ending up meaning very little. It isn't exactly difficult to see why they would turn to meth or other things that would get them off their heads.

 

Strength of will can only be pushed so far and Johnny's was just pushed a mile too far and he became a broken man in consequence. I don't think even at his darkest moment he would honestly hug Trevor, seeking a hug isn't outside the realm of believable based on how much adversity he's been through. He's always had to appear strong to his fellow members and puts the weight of the world on his shoulders with all of its corruption and bullsh*t, he simply ended up being crushed by it.

 

Now back to Jim briefly. I'd like to go on a bit but maybe another topic/post this has gone on far too long already. Jim's death as I have mentioned elsewhere is highly odd to me.

 

The big thing I think is odd that the two million dollars worth of unmarked bills Johnny stole from the Libertonian is completely unaccounted for. It was last seen in Jim's possession, yet when 'Jim' was killed it was nowhere to be seen. Johnny didn't have it, Niko didn't have it, I doubt it went into some account or whatever for the Lost because Johnny would have made a bigger deal about splitting it between himself, Angus, Terry and Clay so where did it go? We obviously know where the diamonds went, but what about the money?

 

The second thing is that the person who Niko kills and is eventually identified as Jim Fitzgerald looks nothing like the Jim we know. Granted it could be a simple retcon but based on the two million dollars worth simply disappearing, I can't help think something is up. With that sort of money, it would be pretty easy to fake your death, especially knowing how corrupt the LCPD is. Have Jim's wife Jackie identify random biker as Jim, toss a bit of cash to change the record, poof, Jim disappears and gets away with his kid and family away from The Lost and from Ray's goons with a nice load of cash. He didn't want to turn his back on The Lost but Jim knew sh*t was going to hit the fan and he made a call. This is hinted at the very start when Johnny says if Billy made him choose what would he do...

 

It's probably wishful thinking but I kinda hope it is true and we get some DLC with Jim as one of the three protagonists with Angus doing mission planning like Lester does. Maybe in North Yankton? Or still in Los Santos? Who knows...

 

It'd make it easier to swallow Johnny's poorly written death, that's for sure...

 

Edit: I posted a shorter version to Rockstar's mouth off. Some I've spoken to like this line of thought *shrug*

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Drunken Cowboy
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#23

Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:38 AM

I had to play the game outright before I seriously commented on this though I've made a few passing comments here and there. I'm not going to spoil anything other than saying that

Spoiler

 
This is quite long but this has been going around my head throughout playing the story and I think about storylines/writing/characters and such way too much :D.
 
Anyway there's a load of things that are really offputting about the whole thing and I cannot understand why Rockstar would do it this way. Killing Johnny? Fine. He was my favourite character, but fine, if you want to make your new protagonist have a fairly big impact but here's the thing, Trevor killed him in a completely cowardly way when Johnny was giving him a break.
 
The result is that almost anyone who liked and identified with Johnny will almost certainly despise Trevor right from the off. Not respect, despise. Do you really want that in a protagonist? I don't get this at all, it's pretty well established throughout the story that Trevor is a crazy lunatic who just does what he feels like. Killing Johnny in this manner was completely unnecessary and it makes Trevor impossible to identify or sympathise with, which is a horrible characteristic in a protagonist. The irony of course is that people who don't give a damn about identifying/sympathising and such may like Trevor but they don't care for identifying with characters and most of them probably don't even watch cutscenes anyway.
 
To make matters worse, he clips Terry and Clay too, characters who we know really well, we know their stories, we know their backgrounds, we know what makes them tick. All of them. Terry's exwife he still loves, the fact he believes the government is run by five men and elections don't mean anything, Clay's army background, his love of sex and women and they get offed like random mooks, not even special mooks, just the random guard who gets a line in a cutscene.
 
At least with Terry and Clay its a bit more of a 'it's a him or me' situation. Had Johnny died this way, in a 'blaze of glory' for lack of better words and Trevor just happened to be the better man at that time, rather than just being offed in such a cowardly way, it wouldn't have left such a bad taste in my mouth throughout the entire story and made me loathe any moment I am forced to play as Trevor.
 
The extra sad irony is that Trevor and Johnny are actually quite similar in their beliefs and although Johnny has a far more stable personality the spirit they both have is very similar. Both characters have been rejected by society, both don't care much for the 'man' and both want to be allowed to be themselves. This may have resulted in people liking Johnny also liking Trevor but any of that was thrown away with this silly move. A similar if not better effect could have been created if he was offed in a different way, showing Johnny being a comparatively broken man could have still being displayed.
 
As for Johnny himself being out of character due to being clearly broken its difficult to say. A key feature or some would view it as a 'weakness' of Johnny's character is that he cares too much. Consider all he's been through.
 
- Horrid upbringing. Hanging with Billy Grey could not possibly be good and there's bits and pieces about it.
- He wanted to be an army man but unlike his brother he didn't go down that path because he believed (correctly) that the army was corrupt and only about the fat cats getting richer rather than 'serving his country' and protecting those he cared about.
- His on/off affair with Ashley boils down to him caring too much about people who he believes are under his 'protection' and of course it is fitting that she would be the death of him.
- The Lost became corrupted by Billy's lunacy and selfishness. Despite the fact it was meant to be a safe haven from the usual temptations of corruption, it was corruption which ended up tearing the gang apart including Brian's grab for power (with Agent Jones manipulating him of course full well knowing what would happen...)
- Jim 'died'. More on this later.
- He had to burn down the clubhouse because it was no longer what he believed in or fought for and felt he had to cut the connections finally so he would stop caring.
 
There's other stuff but that's the main gist. Johnny and to an extent Terry and Clay have had such a horrific and sad life despite obviously having a lot of talent and skill and it ending up meaning very little. It isn't exactly difficult to see why they would turn to meth or other things that would get them off their heads.
 
Strength of will can only be pushed so far and Johnny's was just pushed a mile too far and he became a broken man in consequence. I don't think even at his darkest moment he would honestly hug Trevor, seeking a hug isn't outside the realm of believable based on how much adversity he's been through. He's always had to appear strong to his fellow members and puts the weight of the world on his shoulders with all of its corruption and bullsh*t, he simply ended up being crushed by it.
 
Now back to Jim briefly. I'd like to go on a bit but maybe another topic/post this has gone on far too long already. Jim's death as I have mentioned elsewhere is highly odd to me.
 
The big thing I think is odd that the two million dollars worth of unmarked bills Johnny stole from the Libertonian is completely unaccounted for. It was last seen in Jim's possession, yet when 'Jim' was killed it was nowhere to be seen. Johnny didn't have it, Niko didn't have it, I doubt it went into some account or whatever for the Lost because Johnny would have made a bigger deal about splitting it between himself, Angus, Terry and Clay so where did it go? We obviously know where the diamonds went, but what about the money?
 
The second thing is that the person who Niko kills and is eventually identified as Jim Fitzgerald looks nothing like the Jim we know. Granted it could be a simple retcon but based on the two million dollars worth simply disappearing, I can't help think something is up. With that sort of money, it would be pretty easy to fake your death, especially knowing how corrupt the LCPD is. Have Jim's wife Jackie identify random biker as Jim, toss a bit of cash to change the record, poof, Jim disappears and gets away with his kid and family away from The Lost and from Ray's goons with a nice load of cash. He didn't want to turn his back on The Lost but Jim knew sh*t was going to hit the fan and he made a call. This is hinted at the very start when Johnny says if Billy made him choose what would he do...
 
It's probably wishful thinking but I kinda hope it is true and we get some DLC with Jim as one of the three protagonists with Angus doing mission planning like Lester does. Maybe in North Yankton? Or still in Los Santos? Who knows...
 
It'd make it easier to swallow Johnny's poorly written death, that's for sure...
 
Edit: I posted a shorter version to Rockstar's mouth off. Some I've spoken to like this line of thought *shrug*


Read your whole post, and I totally agree. The fact that someone is attatched to this character enough to go on your spiel shows what a dumb f*cking short-sighted decision Rockstar made.

I think your hopes for the Fitz are slim, but hey, maybe a prequel Lost DLC for GTA V? Maybe we hear from Angus? Johnny deserves justice. Trevor's going to need more qualities of appeal and sympathy beyond being a sarcastic psychopath.

Majestic81
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#24

Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:49 AM Edited by Majestic81, 19 September 2013 - 05:56 AM.

Snip

Agreed with the whole post, but read my first post, i think they wanted us to despise Trevor. i havent played V yet. but its obvious that not all 3 characters are the heroes in this story. sure they could've found another way to reflect trevor's personalty that wasnt so f*cking stupid. but i guess they went the easy way and just used 'protagonist killing another protagonist' trick with poor writing.


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#25

Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:26 AM Edited by Peachrocks, 19 September 2013 - 07:28 AM.

 

Snip

Agreed with the whole post, but read my first post, i think they wanted us to despise Trevor. i havent played V yet. but its obvious that not all 3 characters are the heroes in this story. sure they could've found another way to reflect trevor's personalty that wasnt so f*cking stupid. but i guess they went the easy way and just used 'protagonist killing another protagonist' trick with poor writing.

 

 

I did read that, I read this thread when it was made but wanted to play the game out before posting. I had just said so much already I honestly forgot about this point while typing it :p.

 

In any case, why make Trevor unlikeable? What is to be gained from that? Why do you want players to hate playing as a character they are forced to? This is what makes this whole decision stupid, not just offing a likeable character who has a clear following but how it was done. There is not one good reason I can think of. I have never heard of a protagonist who the writers want them to hate while making the whole playing/reading experience painful because of how much we hate the character.

 

Even if they are 'evil' or 'not good' the writer generally finds a way of making their cause seem just to the reader from the characters perspective, hell Rockstar are masters of this, it's what they do. Johnny himself is the most obvious example. So why bugger it up like this? I cannot come up with a satisfying answer. Even laziness doesn't cover it...

 

 

 


Read your whole post, and I totally agree. The fact that someone is attatched to this character enough to go on your spiel shows what a dumb f*cking short-sighted decision Rockstar made.

I think your hopes for the Fitz are slim, but hey, maybe a prequel Lost DLC for GTA V? Maybe we hear from Angus? Johnny deserves justice. Trevor's going to need more qualities of appeal and sympathy beyond being a sarcastic psychopath.

 

 

I appreciate that. I just analysis a lot of characters this way, I'm... known for my lengthy posts on the Bully Board but you need to find the right topic to get me talking.

 

I don't know I would rather what I suggested rather than a prequel because the future as is looks bleak for The Lost and at least this way we can get a happy ending for Angus and Jim. I know the world doesn't have many happy endings, but that's what games and fiction are for.

 

Granted its a tad overused but I don't think anyone would mind giving some of The Lost Crew a bit of a happy ending. I agree its incredibly slim and hey I usually don't do fanficition and what not, but I might take a crack at it if the mood takes me.

 

The thing is Trevor does have his moments beyond the sarcastic psycho. I may strongly hate him, but I cannot deny the character has his appeal and isn't just the sarcastic psycho. However what he did to Johnny in such a cowardly and unjustifable way (even for GTA standards) made me not want to bother trying to like him, it took me enough effort to play the game for any part he was in. Heaven help me and others if Trevor was a solo protagonist which of course he'd never get away with where as Franklin and Michael definitely could.

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ruud.
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#26

Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:40 AM

Problem?

It wouldn't surprise me if all our GTA protags die mundane and worthless deaths, too, anyway. Did you get attached to them all or something? Did you expect them to get married, have kids, grow old, retire, give back to society and live happily ever after?


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#27

Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:44 AM Edited by MarijuanaMonkey, 19 September 2013 - 11:46 AM.

I don't know but I also have had the sensation that Johnny didn't fight back Trevor because maybe he all accepted his death, believing it is his time to die or maybe Johnny wasn't tied to living anymore. Because I got a little feeling of Johnny accepting it's his fate when Trevor grabbed him in the throat. Because he sounded too weak to me, maybe has become a pussy in high levels. However in GTA V, his life had been turned into a big blob of sh*t; Johnny had become a methhead, he got back together with Ashley who had been a whore that is high on crystal and had dumped Johnny several times and the whole gang is totally dug into drug & arm dealing crap. Although I felt bad for Johnny and I find his death too much painy and not fair for him maybe it was better for him to die than living a life with past sorrows, having gone hard on crystal meth to get over with it... Maybe I should feel a little bit bad and a little bit happy about your death, Johnny. R.I.P again, pal.


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#28

Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:13 PM

I don't think saying "he accepted his death." Is a justification. What I, and some others are saying, is that going by GTA IV's Johnny, he WOULDN'T get back into meth, he WOULDN'T get back with Ashley, and even if he did, he'd clobber the sh*t out of Trevor without hesitation for f*cking her.

It's like some douche on the writing staff was just hired yesterday and told to kill off some biker with a whore girlfriend from a previous GTA.
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The Odyssey
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#29

Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:40 PM Edited by thegtaman531, 22 September 2013 - 01:33 AM.

Nevemind.

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#30

Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

This also REALLY PISSED me the hell off.  I love reading/watching/playing stuff about Biker gangs, and I really loved playing TLAD and I think Johnny was the coolest character in GTA.

 

And then they sh*t all over him in GTA V.  That was f*cked up, a cheap ass, un-through-of, piece of sh*t, move.  You just can't do that, it's f*cked up.

 

I hated Trevor, I mean I hated him after playing that mission.  I didn't shoot Terry or Clay on that mission.

 

That whole part of the game made me want to just say "f*ck it, I want a refund".  God damn it I hate that sh*t.

 

We ought to start a petition for them to release a patch and edit all that sh*t out.

 

It's pretty f*cked up R*.

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