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[FPS] Performance Issues Thread

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iNero
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#91

Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

Ill have to go with aim assist... I cant stand this awful lag when the framerate is low...

 

just done 2 missions where I have to get Celebrity Items. One of them was on the Golf cours. there were only 3 enemys and it was almost impossible to hit does guys because the framerate produced such a lag...


iBenminja
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#92

Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:12 AM

Do like me, send it back!

Vingeskudt
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#93

Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:30 PM

im happy :lol:  found me solution! set off option image MOTION PLUS(by defaulft is set standard, set it off!)its is for samsung tv

THANKS ALOT! 
This helped.
 


Tom7792
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#94

Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

Ill have to go with aim assist... I cant stand this awful lag when the framerate is low...

 

just done 2 missions where I have to get Celebrity Items. One of them was on the Golf cours. there were only 3 enemys and it was almost impossible to hit does guys because the framerate produced such a lag...

Dude did you try degrading to 720p ? I have no idea how but my game works smooth now, degraded to 720p, formated xbox HDD, playing from playdisc, works like a charm, bet i can put it on 1080p and it will be the same, no idea what changed though.


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#95

Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:24 PM

 

im happy :lol:  found me solution! set off option image MOTION PLUS(by defaulft is set standard, set it off!)its is for samsung tv

THANKS ALOT! 
This helped.
 

 

didnt help for me :(


iNero
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#96

Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:27 PM

 

Ill have to go with aim assist... I cant stand this awful lag when the framerate is low...

 

just done 2 missions where I have to get Celebrity Items. One of them was on the Golf cours. there were only 3 enemys and it was almost impossible to hit does guys because the framerate produced such a lag...

Dude did you try degrading to 720p ? I have no idea how but my game works smooth now, degraded to 720p, formated xbox HDD, playing from playdisc, works like a charm, bet i can put it on 1080p and it will be the same, no idea what changed though.

 

 

I even used an 20GB HDD I got left from my previous Xbox. Formatted it and also tried playing 720p.( which is pointless cause then your TV upscales the to 1080p anyways and then there is an even higher chance of lag)

Nothing helped. And its not always the case but many times at day and it makes free aiming so much less enjoyable...


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#97

Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:33 PM

^^^ Damn iNero it seems like all you do is bitch about GTA V, and I thought you were a decent member.


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#98

Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:42 PM Edited by h311m4n, 27 September 2013 - 01:45 PM.

Hi all,

 

Got the same issue as most of you (XBOX 360, older model). Lots of framerate drops, typically when driving fast in the city. I'm also having issues installing to USB:

 

- 1st attempt the install failed at about 50% saying disk was unreadable/scratched although it was perfect

- 2nd attempt the install went through but when trying to launch the game, it wouldn't

 

I'm wondering if using an SSD would smooth things over but I don't know if it would be worth investing in one nor if the xbox supports it anyway.

 

I also have a Samsung 46" TV so I need to try what some other user here was proposing with the Motion thing, try to clear cache etc. we'll see what happens.

 

What I don't get is that all xbox/ps3 systems are the same, I mean, not exactly, but they are standard with the same hardware for each version. The only thing that might change from one system to the other is the HDD. My point is, R* should have had one of each system to test their game on no? Like an old xbox, and arcade one, a slim, a fat ps3, a slim one...

 

It's not like with the PCs were millions of different configs are possible :/

 

Never had an xbox game with lags like this before....


hhamzah99
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#99

Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:08 PM

Hi all,

 

Got the same issue as most of you (XBOX 360, older model). Lots of framerate drops, typically when driving fast in the city. I'm also having issues installing to USB:

 

- 1st attempt the install failed at about 50% saying disk was unreadable/scratched although it was perfect

- 2nd attempt the install went through but when trying to launch the game, it wouldn't

 

I'm wondering if using an SSD would smooth things over but I don't know if it would be worth investing in one nor if the xbox supports it anyway.

 

I also have a Samsung 46" TV so I need to try what some other user here was proposing with the Motion thing, try to clear cache etc. we'll see what happens.

 

What I don't get is that all xbox/ps3 systems are the same, I mean, not exactly, but they are standard with the same hardware for each version. The only thing that might change from one system to the other is the HDD. My point is, R* should have had one of each system to test their game on no? Like an old xbox, and arcade one, a slim, a fat ps3, a slim one...

 

It's not like with the PCs were millions of different configs are possible :/

 

Never had an xbox game with lags like this before....

Also thought this, but the only game that lagged like this was gta 4 (ps3 slim) lol


iNero
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#100

Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:47 PM

^^^ Damn iNero it seems like all you do is bitch about GTA V, and I thought you were a decent member.


Like Im the only one who complains about this issue in a 4 page long thread? And we got like 10 more of those threads...

I cant believe how much in defence some people are over this game...
So ignorant... its pathetic..
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#101

Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:49 AM

^^^ Damn iNero it seems like all you do is bitch about GTA V, and I thought you were a decent member.


Like Im the only one who complains about this issue in a 4 page long thread? And we got like 10 more of those threads...
I cant believe how much in defence some people are over this game...
So ignorant... its pathetic..
Ikr?

I have nothing against the game itself, it actually surpassed my expectations, I mean it's GTA. But the damn framerate./graphic lag. I don't wanna say it ruins the game but it bothers me to the extent of me trying to fix it. Does anyone know if rock star is even aware of the framerate issues (for me it's only during the day)? I mean, I'm sure it's a simple patch, then again I also feel like it could be an issue with my monitor..

h311m4n
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#102

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:47 AM

Guys,

 

I fixed my issue, like I said, got an older XBOX 360 with a 120GB HDD.

 

First installed play disk to a USB stick (used a Kingston DT500 with 30mb/s read speed). This worked the first time around with this USB stick, with the other one I tried it would either not complete the install or not launch the game.

 

Then clear the system cache off the HDD.

 

It's now day and night with what I was playing with before! I still get micro-lags sometimes but it's definetely a LOT smoother...


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#103

Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:30 AM

Same issue here but i only have the install disc installed play disc to play on old fat 360 here very annyoing to not be able to play with flashlights....i would try 16GB usb key but i dont have any...gonna try clear cahe tomorrow...


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#104

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:04 AM

Guys,
 
I fixed my issue, like I said, got an older XBOX 360 with a 120GB HDD.
 
First installed play disk to a USB stick (used a Kingston DT500 with 30mb/s read speed). This worked the first time around with this USB stick, with the other one I tried it would either not complete the install or not launch the game.
 
Then clear the system cache off the HDD.
 
It's now day and night with what I was playing with before! I still get micro-lags sometimes but it's definetely a LOT smoother...

I tried that on my x360 and yeah it improves the performance but I was still getting the popins and framerate drops, especially during the day. (Keep in mind this was on a 2008 60gb Xbox 360)

So I went out and got the gta v ps3 bundle, and issues are still there but not as bad. What I don't get is that if you go on YouTube and watch gta v gameplay, the framerate looks fine? Do YouTube videos not show the framerate drops or are these guys really getting a smooth framerate? I'll find an example video when I find the chance.

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#105

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:06 PM

Having very slow FPS on PS3, 500GB console, virtually brand new. I'm not kidding when I say I'm getting 15 to 25 most of the time. I've tried everything, altered the PS3 settings, reformatted the HDD, bought a new console, nothing has changed. Normally FPS doesn't bother me, but I'm having trouble getting through the game, especially the action sequences where it drops to nearly 10 at times, its bizarre.

 

I've come to the conclusion that it is my TV. How does this game run in 60hz? And what resolution and hz/p setting is this game meant to run in? Whilst I get no pop-in, or texture problems, there are jaggies all over the place, on every edge of every object. Any ideas on what could be the problem?


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#106

Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:41 PM Edited by unikatil, 28 September 2013 - 07:41 PM.

Having very slow FPS on PS3, 500GB console, virtually brand new. I'm not kidding when I say I'm getting 15 to 25 most of the time. I've tried everything, altered the PS3 settings, reformatted the HDD, bought a new console, nothing has changed. Normally FPS doesn't bother me, but I'm having trouble getting through the game, especially the action sequences where it drops to nearly 10 at times, its bizarre.

 

I've come to the conclusion that it is my TV. How does this game run in 60hz? And what resolution and hz/p setting is this game meant to run in? Whilst I get no pop-in, or texture problems, there are jaggies all over the place, on every edge of every object. Any ideas on what could be the problem?

 

Same.


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#107

Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

Having very slow FPS on PS3, 500GB console, virtually brand new. I'm not kidding when I say I'm getting 15 to 25 most of the time. I've tried everything, altered the PS3 settings, reformatted the HDD, bought a new console, nothing has changed. Normally FPS doesn't bother me, but I'm having trouble getting through the game, especially the action sequences where it drops to nearly 10 at times, its bizarre.

 

I've come to the conclusion that it is my TV. How does this game run in 60hz? And what resolution and hz/p setting is this game meant to run in? Whilst I get no pop-in, or texture problems, there are jaggies all over the place, on every edge of every object. Any ideas on what could be the problem?

I'd recommend getting a monitor, they have high refresh rate, fast response time and good resolution. The only thing is the size (they go as high as 30" I think or even higher), you can't watch tv on it and there's no remote but other then that, as far as image quality goes, you can't go wrong with a monitor.

 

I have this monitor http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824236123

 

It's only 25" but it's better than my 32" LCD samsung tv I was using before. I do experience framerate drops (usually during the day when I'm driving in the game) but it's definitely not 15-25 FPS. Oh and it sounds like you got the PS3/GTA 5 bundle? I did that too... I was playing this on 60gb 2008 xbox before and the game ran like sh*t, tons of pop ins and lag. Even after I cleared the cache it still looked like crap..

 

R* should definitely look into porting this game over to the next gen consoles, like seriously.


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#108

Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:33 PM

Idk how to post links but if you go on the youtube channel "typicalgamer" he recently posted a 2 hour gameplay video and I'm currently watching it, so far the framerate seems really smooth/stable. Does anyone know what setup he has?


iNero
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#109

Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:38 PM

Idk how to post links but if you go on the youtube channel "typicalgamer" he recently posted a 2 hour gameplay video and I'm currently watching it, so far the framerate seems really smooth/stable. Does anyone know what setup he has?

 

he has the same performence as everyone else. you dont see it on Youtube cause its encoded with 30 fps so it looks smooth. that was the case with Far Cry 3 video before release. when you first played you could see the sub 30 framerate. CONSTANTLY

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#110

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:09 PM

 

Idk how to post links but if you go on the youtube channel "typicalgamer" he recently posted a 2 hour gameplay video and I'm currently watching it, so far the framerate seems really smooth/stable. Does anyone know what setup he has?

 

he has the same performence as everyone else. you dont see it on Youtube cause its encoded with 30 fps so it looks smooth. that was the case with Far Cry 3 video before release. when you first played you could see the sub 30 framerate. CONSTANTLY

 

Okay, yeah I figured that was the case, I wasn't sure. Damn..

 

Since you know your stuff, I was wondering... could your tv/monitor you use to display the game have any affects on the framerate? I have a 25" monitor (asus ve258q) and seem to get drops in framerate when I'm driving through the city, only during the day. The game runs smooth at night usually, but during the day, I think the lighting/shadows affect the framerate. What other factors can affect framerate (besides the method of installation and your system)?


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#111

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:19 PM Edited by iNero, 28 September 2013 - 11:23 PM.

 

 

Idk how to post links but if you go on the youtube channel "typicalgamer" he recently posted a 2 hour gameplay video and I'm currently watching it, so far the framerate seems really smooth/stable. Does anyone know what setup he has?

 

he has the same performence as everyone else. you dont see it on Youtube cause its encoded with 30 fps so it looks smooth. that was the case with Far Cry 3 video before release. when you first played you could see the sub 30 framerate. CONSTANTLY

 

Okay, yeah I figured that was the case, I wasn't sure. Damn..

 

Since you know your stuff, I was wondering... could your tv/monitor you use to display the game have any affects on the framerate? I have a 25" monitor (asus ve258q) and seem to get drops in framerate when I'm driving through the city, only during the day. The game runs smooth at night usually, but during the day, I think the lighting/shadows affect the framerate. What other factors can affect framerate (besides the method of installation and your system)?

 

 

I played the game on 3 different TVs and 3 different Xboxes at my home and at my brother and a friend of mine with 3 different game versions. Its the same on all 3. I got an Elite, they have Slims. I got an LG TV and they have samsung smart TVs ( gaming mode enabled and disabled, tried both). No Problem with other games like me.

Its the game. We cant do anything except hoping for  a patch

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#112

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:41 PM

Yeah you're right, and anyone claiming they have no framerate issues can't possibly know what low framerate looks like or they're in denial. I will say that the framerate this time around is much more improved from gta 4, so I'll give em that but then again I feel like R* could've done a better job optimizing or whatever it's called.

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#113

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:45 PM Edited by JaiAE86, 28 September 2013 - 11:47 PM.

 

Having very slow FPS on PS3, 500GB console, virtually brand new. I'm not kidding when I say I'm getting 15 to 25 most of the time. I've tried everything, altered the PS3 settings, reformatted the HDD, bought a new console, nothing has changed. Normally FPS doesn't bother me, but I'm having trouble getting through the game, especially the action sequences where it drops to nearly 10 at times, its bizarre.

 

I've come to the conclusion that it is my TV. How does this game run in 60hz? And what resolution and hz/p setting is this game meant to run in? Whilst I get no pop-in, or texture problems, there are jaggies all over the place, on every edge of every object. Any ideas on what could be the problem?

I'd recommend getting a monitor, they have high refresh rate, fast response time and good resolution. The only thing is the size (they go as high as 30" I think or even higher), you can't watch tv on it and there's no remote but other then that, as far as image quality goes, you can't go wrong with a monitor.

 

I have this monitor http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824236123

 

It's only 25" but it's better than my 32" LCD samsung tv I was using before. I do experience framerate drops (usually during the day when I'm driving in the game) but it's definitely not 15-25 FPS. Oh and it sounds like you got the PS3/GTA 5 bundle? I did that too... I was playing this on 60gb 2008 xbox before and the game ran like sh*t, tons of pop ins and lag. Even after I cleared the cache it still looked like crap..

 

R* should definitely look into porting this game over to the next gen consoles, like seriously.

 

 

 

I have a fairly decent monitor which I use when PC gaming, I've tried it and there is no difference. I also tried another TV we have and I'm still getting poor FPS, odd. The jagged edges are gone though, so I can't think of any reason for it to be abnormally slow since everything else is either new or working well. I guess its just a case of bad luck on my part.


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#114

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:46 PM

Yeah you're right, and anyone claiming they have no framerate issues can't possibly know what low framerate looks like or they're in denial. I will say that the framerate this time around is much more improved from gta 4, so I'll give em that but then again I feel like R* could've done a better job optimizing or whatever it's called.

 

I think its the shadows at day. so I guess they did not polish/optimize them enough. 

But it could be something else though. Cause sometimes when I drive to a location and exit the car, the first minute it has the lag and all that and after 2-3 minutes you notice that it gets a bit better


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#115

Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:55 PM

tried to clear cache of 360 nothing changed...oh well...... :(


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#116

Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:11 AM

If you have a Samsung TV, might be worth trying to deactivate the "Motion Plus" option. Mine was already off but someone on the first page said that it would help to turn it off if on...

 

Also, get a good USB stick with good read speeds if you install to usb, not just the recommended minimum of 15mb/sec


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#117

Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

I have a Panasonic smartview i guess ill try to find a 16gb usb stick..


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#118

Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:58 PM

Alright so I signed up just to put down my confusing and lengthy experiences with the framerate in this game. To preface, I play a lot of PC games on a beefy PC. Yes, I am used to high smooth framerates but I'm also well experienced in what sub 20fps looks and plays like.

 

I bought a Super Slim 500gb ps3 and GTA V. The framerate is very rarely anywhere near 30fps. Most of the time, even without driving fast, it's at 20fps or lower. 

 

To start with I thought I just wasn't used to console performance coming from a pc so I played on and had some fun. Last night I went to a buddy's house and played the game on his old fat PS3. WOW! There was a very noticeable difference. His game seemed to run considerably smoother, maybe high 20s-30fps almost all the time unless he got into a large battle or started blowing things up. It still seemed a little slow compared to PC but it was definitely better than my experience on the Super Slim.

 

Since last night I've spent all day trying to work out what is going on. I've fiddled with every TV setting on my Panasonic tx-P42X60B. I turned off all the extra settings like the dynamic colour and anything that could be slowing down the refresh. I'd heard it was a decent tv for gaming on, so with those settings off and no real difference I moved on.

I started looking into the console itself. APPARENTLY CERTAIN BATCHES OF SUPER SLIM PS3 COME WITH A  HITACHI TRAVELSTAR ZK500. THIS IS A sh*tTY HDD. 

 

After looking around it seems a lot of users are having problems with games that rely heavily on texture streaming and loading from the HDD. Most of them replaced this particular Hitachi with another HDD to find there problems (most of them were complaining about uncharted 3) had disappeared and the game started running properly.

 

I can only speculate that this HDD is too slow/poorly made to handle GTA V constantly grabbing data ESPECIALLY if you're using the PSN digital version of the game. The reason that my friends old fat PS3 and apparently a lot of peoples' Slim consoles are running the game 'fine' is because Sony used relatively decent HDDs in those versions. Even some of the Super Slims come with Seagate HDDs which apparently are not causing any issues.

 

So, in an effort to achieve the same performance as my friend's copy I have put an SSD on order and will update when I get it installed and running. I know that the load times and the character switching will have definitely improved, as is the case with all SSD upgrades. I hope that it will also pick up the slack the current Hitachi drive is creating.

 

It it doesn't I don't know where to go next. Perhaps the issue lies with the blu ray lense. It certainly reads a lot whilst playing. If the disc version + SSD provides no FPS improvement I will try with the PSN digital version and get back to you.

 

Anyone else having issues with the Super Slim 500gb should check their HDD to see if it's another Hitachi. I would bet that it is.

 

I also don't know how to approach Sony about the issue. It's not really good enough if I'm having to replace their HDD just to run a game with the same performance as their first iteration of console.


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#119

Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:00 PM Edited by DryBomber5, 06 October 2013 - 11:02 PM.

Alright so I signed up just to put down my confusing and lengthy experiences with the framerate in this game. To preface, I play a lot of PC games on a beefy PC. Yes, I am used to high smooth framerates but I'm also well experienced in what sub 20fps looks and plays like.

 

I bought a Super Slim 500gb ps3 and GTA V. The framerate is very rarely anywhere near 30fps. Most of the time, even without driving fast, it's at 20fps or lower. 

 

To start with I thought I just wasn't used to console performance coming from a pc so I played on and had some fun. Last night I went to a buddy's house and played the game on his old fat PS3. WOW! There was a very noticeable difference. His game seemed to run considerably smoother, maybe high 20s-30fps almost all the time unless he got into a large battle or started blowing things up. It still seemed a little slow compared to PC but it was definitely better than my experience on the Super Slim.

 

Since last night I've spent all day trying to work out what is going on. I've fiddled with every TV setting on my Panasonic tx-P42X60B. I turned off all the extra settings like the dynamic colour and anything that could be slowing down the refresh. I'd heard it was a decent tv for gaming on, so with those settings off and no real difference I moved on.

I started looking into the console itself. APPARENTLY CERTAIN BATCHES OF SUPER SLIM PS3 COME WITH A  HITACHI TRAVELSTAR ZK500. THIS IS A sh*tTY HDD. 

 

After looking around it seems a lot of users are having problems with games that rely heavily on texture streaming and loading from the HDD. Most of them replaced this particular Hitachi with another HDD to find there problems (most of them were complaining about uncharted 3) had disappeared and the game started running properly.

 

I can only speculate that this HDD is too slow/poorly made to handle GTA V constantly grabbing data ESPECIALLY if you're using the PSN digital version of the game. The reason that my friends old fat PS3 and apparently a lot of peoples' Slim consoles are running the game 'fine' is because Sony used relatively decent HDDs in those versions. Even some of the Super Slims come with Seagate HDDs which apparently are not causing any issues.

 

So, in an effort to achieve the same performance as my friend's copy I have put an SSD on order and will update when I get it installed and running. I know that the load times and the character switching will have definitely improved, as is the case with all SSD upgrades. I hope that it will also pick up the slack the current Hitachi drive is creating.

 

It it doesn't I don't know where to go next. Perhaps the issue lies with the blu ray lense. It certainly reads a lot whilst playing. If the disc version + SSD provides no FPS improvement I will try with the PSN digital version and get back to you.

 

Anyone else having issues with the Super Slim 500gb should check their HDD to see if it's another Hitachi. I would bet that it is.

 

I also don't know how to approach Sony about the issue. It's not really good enough if I'm having to replace their HDD just to run a game with the same performance as their first iteration of console.

I got the ps3/GTA 5 bundle too and am experiencing drops in framerate, only during the day when it's sunny. It's not just when I'm driving, even if I'm on foot I still notice it. The root of the problem seems to come from the lighting/shadows in the game, because as I've said, it's only during the day if it's sunny. At night or even sunset the framerate is smooth and stable (for the most part). If you're suggesting that old playstation 3 models have a better HDD than the super slim, then sony really f*cked up. Unless you have proof (link would be great) that this is the case, then I'm gonna assume its false.

 

I also have to question the 20fps you claim to be getting. I know you're a PC gamer but I highly doubt you're getting 20 (or lower) fps... maybe it's just the way you percieve it? Again I'll say, unless you actually measured this, then I don't buy it. I looked up your panasonic plasma tv and I don't think it's your tv, it's the game/you being picky. Whether or not the game looks smoother at your friends house is also questionable, maybe it was just a mental thing, idk. My only suggestion is to try this game out on a monitor. Here's the one I use: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824236123


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#120

Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:31 PM

Most of the severe frame drop does happen in the day. Specifically in the city and out in the desert. Obviously a lot of this is due simply to a lack of horsepower in the aging hardware and cannot be overcome at all. I think though that the slowdown is compounded by those with either the 12GB flash memory (slow speeds) and possibly the hitachi drives (again slow speeds).

 

The biggest difference between my friend's version and mine was the driving. When I play, even at night, as I get to faster speeds the console makes far more noise searching the disc and presumably HDD to stream the data faster and faster. It can't do this, again possibly because this particular Hitachi drive isn't up to the task, so the framerate really starts to drop. On my friend's machine there is still a drop in framerate but not to the same extent.

I really did chalk it up to perception to begin with but after seeing his performance it is undeniable. It was that apparent. 

 

Here are a few other sites with people discussing the Hitachi drives:

 

http://community.eu....17242596/page/2

 

Here a few people speculate the maybe the HDD is causing issues. One fellow changes his out for an SSD and sees no improvement.

 

http://community.eu....17245332/page/4

 

Here a guy says he switched out the HDD and resolved the issues. On the same page we have someone claiming they replace the blu ray lense and it fixed the issues.

 

http://community.eu....17245332/page/6

 

Same thread a few pages later and speculation begins that it's the Hitachi drives. More people begin to report in that they have the same issues and, surprise surprise, the same HDD. They carry on for a good few pages if you fancy a read. Again it's all speculation because Sony hasn't said anything but what is certain is that a lot of people are having issues with the Super Slim and a lot of those people have the Hitachi drive. It could be a number of faulty drives or faulty blu ray lenses causing problems for a few people and not the majority. It could be that if this Hitachi drive is weak that it causes excessive stuttering on top of the already low framerates of GTA V.

Could be that the Blu ray lense is bad and that's the limiting factor for certain people complaining about really bad framerate.

 

That's why if the SSD installation doesn't do anything to improve the performance at all I'll try a digital version to eliminate the possibility of it being the lense doing a sh*t job of pulling data from disc.

 

And then, of course, there's the possibility that, at least with GTA V, it's all just perception and a fair amount of people and I are overly sensitive to low frames. This is the opinion I started out with until I saw it run on a different machine and am really pretty certain that the performance I'm getting is worse than the normal slowdown that everyone else might experience.

Maybe not. Time will tell.





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