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The issue with driving/damage is not the handling. It's that GTA:V

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Mavsynchroid
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#271

Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:29 AM

Nope. Shutit.

gtaxpert
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#272

Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:48 AM Edited by gtaxpert, 16 September 2013 - 12:50 AM.

 

 But inconsistencies can give better gameplay, like more fluid and fast car chases and shoot outs because of auto lock on or being able to take corners easily.

 

I believe you just contradicted yourself here. You stated that fluid and fast car chases give better gameplay because it is easier, or to quote you directly "take corners easier". Making a game easy does not enhance the gameplay in fact it can destroy it by making reducing the effort to create a desirable outcome in the game world. GTA 4's driving is simply superior, regardless of its' flaws, because it required significant skill to maintain control over the vehicle. Even at relatively mild velocities you had to have awareness and pay attention to your cars handling and orientation. What GTA 5 has done is displace the threshold of failure discounting skill and luck. Take note many games are enjoyable because of luck and randomness and GTA 4 had that in spades as many of the crashes were spontaneous and unpredictable.

 

When a game becomes harder and you succeed the sense of accomplishment will always be greater because of the acknowledgement of skill or the realization of the potential loss you might have taken on the gamble. When the victory costs you little the victory means little. Modern gamers simply want more power and more capabilities and in many ways they want to be fed teh experience. We can see this in the trend of many modern military shooters that are tremendously linear which don't require you to choose your approach(essentially somebody plays the game for you forcing the most efficient route) or cut-scene heavy games where you dont' interact at all, just sit back and watch. Some games have hours upon hours of cut scenes reducing the requirement of game play and the need for skill. You have eliminated the interactivity much like GTA 5's driving has limited the interactivity by not punishing you for failing to use your breaks or colliding with environmental objects.

 

Again this shows a rather glaring contradiction or lack of consistency as the OP said. The shooting and on foot action is very difficult but the vehicle stuff reduces the need for inputs and adaption to changing environmental conditions. 

 

Also as far as the autolock is concerned this is a different argument. Gamepads are inferior peripherals for aiming target reticles , a lock on is reasonable contrivance to compenstate for the lack of a mouse as you dont' want the operator fighting with the interface itself .. Totally different issue

 

In another topic someone told me I can't shoot because I want soft lock. He also told me I can't drive because I think making the driving more arcady from IV to V is a good move. Ironically enough I'm a better driver than a shooter.

 

I don't think I contradicted myself ever. I think the arcady driving does give better gameplay. Sometimes chases in IV felt slow and boring because each turn you were driving a car or a bike that acted like a goddamn boat. I think the faster more responsive driving will result in better gameplay. I have to play the game to give my final verdict on it though.

 

And it's the exact same with the auto lock. It keeps it up tempo. The v handling is kinda like auto fast cornering haha. It keeps everything up tempo. But I understand that other people might prefer different gameplay. That's fine. It's nice to share opinions on it though.


Rafe
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#273

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:15 AM Edited by Rafe, 16 September 2013 - 02:19 AM.

In another topic someone told me I can't shoot because I want soft lock. He also told me I can't drive because I think making the driving more arcady from IV to V is a good move. Ironically enough I'm a better driver than a shooter.

 

I don't think I contradicted myself ever. I think the arcady driving does give better gameplay. Sometimes chases in IV felt slow and boring because each turn you were driving a car or a bike that acted like a goddamn boat. I think the faster more responsive driving will result in better gameplay. I have to play the game to give my final verdict on it though.

 

And it's the exact same with the auto lock. It keeps it up tempo. The v handling is kinda like auto fast cornering haha. It keeps everything up tempo. But I understand that other people might prefer different gameplay. That's fine. It's nice to share opinions on it though.

 

 

Well like i said with the Gamepad vs Mouse. While i'm not an advocate of assisted aim the gamepad suffers from an input problem teh mouse does not. You cannot move your input rapidly and with precision and slowly with precision. FPS /3rdPS must sacrifice one so they sacrifice rapid movements for more slow precision. This is why mouse gamers will always be better and why the mouse is superior for aiming guns. I would say the GTA lock ons are necessary to rapidly move the cursor to a target but i understand how dancing on the flanks of your target is a constant with gamepads so i realize some assists are needed here simply because gamepads are disasterously inferior as an input device (FOR SHOOTING, not driving). One should not have to fight with your input device because it's ill conceived for communication between your body to the console.

 

So when you are being pursued in gta 4 by vehicles and you obtain high speed and your vehicle was on teh edge of control you didn't feel any tension at the potential for immediate loss of stability ? That was the best part of 4, the faster you went the higher the potential for failure  you would experience.  I am not exactly sure how you play the game but some games simply have a spectrum of allowable behavior that you cannot exceed. Other games allow for large margin of errors before punishing the players. I have watched Let's plays of people simply standing in the middle of street while they are encircled by police who spill endless bullets into them and i have to question if this is the standard of gameplay people are judging more difficult gameplay on. As i said in another post, watch some youtube letsplays of people that play racing games that are casuel gamers. They slam into walls and use them to stabilize their vehicles, they go into turns too hard and collide into other members of the pack to slow themselves down. There is no shortage of these people. I have plenty of friends that simply refuse to employ the breaks in racing games. My suspicion is these are the people that are setting the standard. The problem is that these are the kinda gamers that want more power. They want to have their cake and eat it. They want to be able to speed but do not want to have to incur the cost when they fail to contemplate a turn or hit something in the environment. Games are beginning to cater to this simple mindset, games who do not understand constraints. Games are de-evolving.

 

As you state increasing the tempo increases quality of the gameplay. What you perceive as faster or as terrain whizzing past your head more rapidly means gameplay. There is no indication that factors like risk, skill requirement or luck play a more central role in gameplay now, particularly because your car is now more stable and can reach stability from a dangerous velocity faster those elements have been eroded from the experience. What you have created is simply a system where more motion is occurring on the screen. I can see why you would associate that with action and then from there make a logical leap that gameplay has increased by some positive correlation 

 

Quite the profane trick is used in action cinema today where one can pass an action sequence off as kinetic or fast by simply making very fast editing cuts. This creates the illusion of  a high intensity event but it also covers up the mistakes and errors or lack of skill of the choreography. GTA 4's driving should have communicated to you that you are on the edge of control, use your breaks, attempt to use alleys or traffic to outrun your pursuers. The boaty feeling was experienced by the cops themselves so they dont' necessarily have some sort of metaphysical advantage over you. Speed for the sake of speed is a rather purposeless aesthetic as you can just end up on a slippery slope, more speed = better until human reaction times are teh measure of game balance that have to be utilized to gauge where development pauses to accord with reality. A car that is "boaty" still demands just as much from your brain, if not more because you have to watch teh attitude of the vehicle or its' lateral translation and react to that all while utilizing breaks or accelerator that will not immediately get you to the desired speed. That is interaction, that is gameplay. Don't be tricked by the velocity pixels are moving. 

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vortex7
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#274

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

 

Guys! Guys!

Take a look at this cheat in action!

Maybe a minor cheat spoiler, but this looks amazing IMO!

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=X3A8fZ4wpBM

Looks like the guys over at R* North knew the team behind V's handling f*cked up and added IV's through a cheat. That handling looks WAY better than V's standard. I'm so happy :D :D

That isn't even IV driving. IV driving was better than that, that is just like zero traction driving.

 

No, I think the guy driving was just hammering down the accelerator and could not drive in gta IV as well.


Agni
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#275

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:46 AM Edited by Agni, 16 September 2013 - 03:48 AM.

Assuming that cheat actually does makes the game feel better...well, I'm not an achievement whore anyway.

 

Also what the hell happened when he took the F620? Micheal just...raised his hand and that dude (who is apparently wearing shorts with no shoes) just FLEW out like God himself had flung him from the car. What.


Ethereal_NYC
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#276

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:44 AM

10 pages and nobody brought this up

 

i played the game and it is way faster than 4. the top speed or whatever has increased significantly.

 

also like i said, you cant apply those 4 physics becuz they wouldnt fly in los santos.

 

the ability to maneuver midair now is awesome.

 

also the damage has improved in different ways.

 

in 4 you could set someones car on fire instantly in a chase. now cars seem to eat a lot of bullets. chases will now be more epic instead of you clipping one small corner and doing a 720.


Gigabomber
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#277

Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:45 AM Edited by Gigabomber, 16 September 2013 - 05:46 AM.

You won't survive a police chase in an unarmored car for 30 minutes. The police are crazily aggressive.

 

And the cars are biased toward flipping back over more than any of the previous GTAs, but, for some reason, that doesn't bother me as much as it should.


Vercetti42
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#278

Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:02 AM

Finally someone who has actually played the game before coming and writing a review, I was getting sick and tired of the trolls who hadn't played the game yet and started writing 'reviews'.

 

Although some points I tend to disagree with:
 

It's as though on-foot gameplay and activities were developed by an entirely different studio than the driving mechanics.

 

There is an explanation as to why Rockstar made the driving feel more arcadey.

 

If you read some of the negative comments about GTA IV, it was about the car handling, they felt it to be way too realistic. Most of them at least.

 

Therefore Rockstar realized that people liked the arcadey-style driving better and therefore decided to switch the driving and handling style back to the III Era days.

 

The reason you're not used to it is because you have been playing GTA IV for so long, I'm sure you would have found the handling in GTA IV difficult to control at first because you weren't used to it. It's only a matter of time until you get used to it.

 

Even if you don't Rockstar will definitely release a patch to fix up the driving. Depending on the reception for it after the game's release. Square Enix did something similar for the disguise system in Hitman: Absolution where it had to be the worst possible disguise system, they released a patch later to fix it.

 

Other than that have you enjoyed the game thus far?


xLouisxRayx
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#279

Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:14 AM

I think they had to cut back on certain things cuz of how big the game really is I bet if they made it on next gen the driving would be awsome but they only had so much to work with I am not a huge fan of the change in driving or damage but oh well after playing it a lil bit it will be just like normal so wat they changed the game would u rather have them just re-release gta 4 and put a 5 on it no I say either way its gona be amazing game an instant classic an i proly wont even care about the driving physics after the first week

abigor115
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#280

Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:50 AM Edited by abigor115, 16 September 2013 - 06:51 AM.

My initial intention was to start a new thread, but seeing this one has somehow evaded all the twats in this forum, I'll just post my 2 cents here.
First of all, I won't be playing GTA V anytime soon as I don't have a console and I don't plan on getting one, so I'll base all of my impressions and opinions on the streams and videos I have watched. 
Overall, the game seems really really nice, with amazing graphics and eye-candy, an enormous map and hundreds of things to do. Everything I have seen in GTA V is outstanding, except for the driving physics. This aspect of the game really disappoints me. When Rockstar said that they are going to give us a cleaner version of IV's driving physics, I was expecting something close to THIS:

Instead, I get an arcadey mix of Sleeping Dogs and MC:LA with a little bit of IV feel to it and the bad damage model that just makes it worse.
I don't want people telling me that I haven't played the game cuz I know I haven't and I don't need to. I have built my own evaluation criteria. I don't need to play Saints Row to know that I don't like its driving physics. And I also don't need to play GTA V to make the difference between the driving in the video I posted above and the driving in the game itself.
And the last thing I wanna add is that some people seem to think the more arcadey, easy, and responsive a car is, the more fun it is. You can speak for yourself because for me (and probably a lot of people out there) THAT is the total opposite of fun and that is exactly why I enjoy Mafia 2 more than any other open world game that is out by now.

Ohhh man that looks fantastic !!......problem in GTA5 is that they forgot suspension.......handling in GTA5 is like RC cars


AndrewDeSanta
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#281

Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:11 AM

It's funny, all the threads bagging V is just increasing my hype. Keep em' coming fellas. Not believing any of this till i am my hands on the game. 


Phyxsius-
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#282

Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:41 AM Edited by Phyxsius-, 16 September 2013 - 07:43 AM.

@OP, realism is not as fun as you might think. A realistic game will always be utter sh*t, because it won`t be fun. I am thinking of that bus driving project, where one guy made you drive a bus for 8 hours; 8 real hours; with no possibility for save, nor breaks. Upon finishing the 8 hours sh*t game, you would get ONE point, for a high score ladder. There weren`t many that got above of the single digits... low single digits. The guy proved a point - reality won`t sell.

 

So, games are mixing reality with fun. Some "real" things could be fun, some aren`t. I won`t play a micromanagement game, for instance, in an arcade/satirical setting. 

_____________________

 

And go play iRacing, if you want to see how reality is like. And here`s the kicker: I would play iRacing, if I would be after that reality, because realistic physics don`t suit this game. The only ones that want "realism" are the ones that have no effing clue about how a real car handles at high speed.

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M4RK
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#283

Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:45 AM

too long. didnt read.  WOOOOOOOOOOO!!


Geeteeaifive
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#284

Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

His points are in the damn game, any whiner saying otherwise now is a plain retarded f*ck that should be ignored forever. Everything in the game is realistic apart from cheesy car, plane and possibly boat handling. Now why would they f*ck that up, next gen console title" WE ADDED REALISTIC VEHICLE HANDLING BECAUSE NEXT GEN CONSOLE HAS MORE POWERRRRR" Pc's too.


Hypertenzion
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#285

Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

I saw a video of some bearded guy trying to smash a car in GTA 5 with hard collisions almost non-stop.  The video was 8 minutes and as I recall the police actually killed him and the car was left undestroyed.  He was smashing it into cars, poles, and was shooting the engine.  The cars are tanks.  Imagine how much of a tank the tank will be.  Tank in GTA Online = gameover.

 

Saw the exact same video and I'm surprised cars has turned into tanks.. :v:


abigor115
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#286

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:05 AM Edited by abigor115, 16 September 2013 - 11:06 AM.

im 11 year old and i know  that it's possible to take corners in 180 mph!!! without any problems at all !!!!!!   I played a lot of Crazy Taxi and i know that  it's possible...... so i think that GTA5 is realistic


Chrome_Adderz
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#287

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:18 AM

Promote pookie1 as Admin!


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#288

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:32 AM

I do not want to impose my views on the physics of the game, to other people, but I want to be driving physics was in gta4. I do not care how they do it, but I am opposed to compromise - do physics than that average between GTA5 and gta4.
Rockstar! ,

1) Make option settings difficulty driving physics. For example, two modes: arcade and gta4 physics mode, or even more realistic (gta4 physics is good but not entirely realistic) This should be available even in the offline mode, the multiplayer is not necessarily

GTA4 style physics - is a strong inertia, realistic suspension, a stirred weight of the car under braking and acceleration in a turn, realistic physics rollover, realistic feelings for tires and different coefficient of traction with the ground, asphalt, or slippery surface etc.

2) Fix damage to the vehicle in an accident, do this at least in gta4. And to do that the cars in the collision were truly heavy as in gta4 or better. I also want a "new generation" GTA5 used the physics of damage to cars "soft body" as the new flatout, BeamNG, Rigs of Rods. Maybe not so harsh, but this technology

3) Fix the physics of human bodies in GTA5 pedestrians and the main character - being hit by a car have less weight and inertia of the body than in gta4.

4)Make a GTA5 normal physics of all-terrain vehicles, motorcycles and off-road. Physics lift on a steep slope, the simulation of low gear, all-wheel drive and off-road tires. (All this was well implemented in GTA sa, but bad in gta4) the conquest of the mountains by jeep in gta sa was very exciting and interesting

I did not know about GTA forum, but when I saw the video of leakage and the new physics, I was outraged and felt something that I must say it
Rockstar, you stole from me 80% of the fun of the game, if you do not fix it, I will not play in GTA5 and other new GTA
similar discussion http://gtaforums.com...-better/page-14


golf wang
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#289

Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:48 AM Edited by golf wang, 16 September 2013 - 11:48 AM.

 

Man, I can't wait until Tuesday so that stupid people can stop using the "U HAVEN'T EVEN PLAY IT YET, HOW CAN U KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE JUST FROM 40 HOURS OF STREAMS AND FOOTAGE?"

 

Lol. I guess on the 17th the tagline will be "You've only played it for 1 day!"

Indeed. Or you need to get used to it. Forum traffic around these parts will decrease though so hopefully those posts won't happen.

 

People would always say that you need to "get used to" GTA IV handling. Honestly, how is it any different?


DymeDef
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#290

Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:59 PM Edited by DymeDef, 16 September 2013 - 03:03 PM.

 

i'm glad a bunch of people reject the driving, just means i'll always be better than all of you.

 

lulz

Actually, irony behind all of this is that many players who hate the driving in V were experts at driving in IV, and the people who love the driving in V were horrible in IV. This basically sets up the following scenario: Since the players who could actually learn how to use the physics in IV to their advantage and make it work while others couldn't, they will still have the upper hand in V since they had already been conditioned to drive well with realistic handling, and when they give those players the unrealistic handling V has, those skilled veterans will drive like gods on the road.

 

Because you personally know the skill of each and every person who posts here. You have tabs on all of their GTA IV single player and multi player stats, and know exactly how they play.

 

Lol

 

Also I have a picture of a wheel that got ripped off during a head on collision on the front left quarter panel. Picture below.

http://imgur.com/JceTtij

 

The bumper should have been ripped off along with the tire and the hood should be smashed up, but the tire fell off lol.

 

I will not disagree the damage should be much better, but I continue to run into hardly any body damage but the cars wheels get locked up, bent or otherwise f*cked up. Usually the product of maybe three crashes, two of which were big ones. I still would like to see a car get beat up though more so than it is now, but I have been seeing more stuff happening to cars the more I play. Still lacking in actually having that impact feeling, but it isn't that bad. Somewhere between IV and V would be preferable obviously, but the handling in general doesn't seem as bad to me as most of you feel it is. Not sure how many of the people actually complaining have played, but the driving is not EZMODE. It is easier, yes but IV had retarded driving at times where some things flat out made no sense. All of the cars do seem to have a low center of gravity though which does feel weird when driving a SUV but they still handle different than a car does.

 

Pookie, the recurring theme of cars is because that area was changed the most drastic. We can all agree the shooting is much better than IV, even without playing the game you can see it. The driving was the one thing that had to be felt, and it is also the most subjective area. Everyone likes to drive different in this game, so everyone wants a different type of driving. Hoping that on PC there will be a bit more to the collisions at least.


gtaxpert
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#291

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:27 PM Edited by gtaxpert, 16 September 2013 - 04:34 PM.

So when you are being pursued in gta 4 by vehicles and you obtain high speed and your vehicle was on teh edge of control you didn't feel any tension at the potential for immediate loss of stability ? That was the best part of 4, the faster you went the higher the potential for failure  you would experience.  I am not exactly sure how you play the game but some games simply have a spectrum of allowable behavior that you cannot exceed. Other games allow for large margin of errors before punishing the players. I have watched Let's plays of people simply standing in the middle of street while they are encircled by police who spill endless bullets into them and i have to question if this is the standard of gameplay people are judging more difficult gameplay on. As i said in another post, watch some youtube letsplays of people that play racing games that are casuel gamers. They slam into walls and use them to stabilize their vehicles, they go into turns too hard and collide into other members of the pack to slow themselves down. There is no shortage of these people. I have plenty of friends that simply refuse to employ the breaks in racing games. My suspicion is these are the people that are setting the standard. The problem is that these are the kinda gamers that want more power. They want to have their cake and eat it. They want to be able to speed but do not want to have to incur the cost when they fail to contemplate a turn or hit something in the environment. Games are beginning to cater to this simple mindset, games who do not understand constraints. Games are de-evolving.

 

As you state increasing the tempo increases quality of the gameplay. What you perceive as faster or as terrain whizzing past your head more rapidly means gameplay. There is no indication that factors like risk, skill requirement or luck play a more central role in gameplay now, particularly because your car is now more stable and can reach stability from a dangerous velocity faster those elements have been eroded from the experience. What you have created is simply a system where more motion is occurring on the screen. I can see why you would associate that with action and then from there make a logical leap that gameplay has increased by some positive correlation 

 

Quite the profane trick is used in action cinema today where one can pass an action sequence off as kinetic or fast by simply making very fast editing cuts. This creates the illusion of  a high intensity event but it also covers up the mistakes and errors or lack of skill of the choreography. GTA 4's driving should have communicated to you that you are on the edge of control, use your breaks, attempt to use alleys or traffic to outrun your pursuers. The boaty feeling was experienced by the cops themselves so they dont' necessarily have some sort of metaphysical advantage over you. Speed for the sake of speed is a rather purposeless aesthetic as you can just end up on a slippery slope, more speed = better until human reaction times are teh measure of game balance that have to be utilized to gauge where development pauses to accord with reality. A car that is "boaty" still demands just as much from your brain, if not more because you have to watch teh attitude of the vehicle or its' lateral translation and react to that all while utilizing breaks or accelerator that will not immediately get you to the desired speed. That is interaction, that is gameplay. Don't be tricked by the velocity pixels are moving. 

 

I agree with what you said about the mouse vs the gamepad, and have used that argument myself. With GTA on PC noone would need any type of lock.

 

I understand your idea that games are mass products, and thus may be catered to the people who are crap. What I think though is that GTA by definition is kind of an arcady fun game that needs to keep the same tempo as the kind of action movie you would watch. If driving similar to Gran Turismo would be implemented the game would feel sluggish.

 

And yes. In GTA IV I did have that tenion. And it was enjoyable. I still crash after driving from Algonquin into Alderney and then taking that turn there to your safehouse haha. And it is exactly like you said, because sometimes I'm too lazy to use breaks. I know I'll probably crash but I don't care. But in GTA, sometimes, it actually is fun to crash really hard on purpose. I think that is part of how it is meant to be. GTA IV's driving fitted the atmosphere they went by. They tried to give the game a more realistic feel to it to compensate for the lack of features and variation in missions.

 

Maybe there should be a PC crime game made that has completely realistic shooting and completely realistic driving etc. And that would be awesome. But I'm not sure wether it is GTA. I don't think that game would involve things like crazy cheats or ridiculous humor or doing ridiculous action movie like stuff in missions. It would be a serious game. GTA is a crazy game and I think the arcady driving is good.

 

And someone made a valid point that cars are simply a lot faster now so they need better handling. If you'd give the faster cars GTA IV handling you would have to step the breaks a lot. But then again that is what you want..

 

I guess in a sense I'm a pretty casual gamer. More hardcore gamers tend to be more obsessed with making everything difficult and realistic. GTA is the only thing I still play. And I am a hardcore GTA player, but after I played a new GTA about a thousand hours, I tend to take a long break from gaming altogether.


CarlitoDorito
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#292

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:41 PM

Do all the problems with the driving come from people who have played the game? 


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#293

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

a few aren't too thrilled about it but i think they got used to it anyway and the rest of the game made up for it, the majority of the haters literally haven't played the game.


muhammad.arham
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#294

Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:48 PM

this is really true because when i was driving on the road,the road was clear and suddenly the car got  up side down


Powner811
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#295

Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

It's funny that people think that R* will patch this issues like car damage/physics. I don't think they will.

There is no issues, Rockstar simply told us that GTA 5 will not have 100% GTA 4's driving and physics. Game is mixed with GTA 4, RDR, Max Payne 3 and Midnight club LA too i think. They informed us about driving back in Nov. 2012 and all, but it seems like some retards around this forum were living under the rock all the time.


king-rotty
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#296

Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:08 PM Edited by king-rotty, 16 September 2013 - 05:09 PM.

... has an identity crisis.

 

I am going to preface this by asking readers to please read entirely and, if you choose to respond, please do so by putting your "big boy" pants on.

 

There are tons of topics out there complaining about driving physics, car damage, etc. This is not one of them. This is merely a means to convey the issue at hand from a proper perspective.

 

The issue here is not so much the physics in my mind; rather, it's the fact GTA is inconsistent in how it handles the world in general.

 

Your health is low (realistic).

NPC health is low and can be KO'd by a single punch or knife strike (realistic).

Running speed is slow (realistic).

Bicycling speed is slow (realistic).

The slightest mistake on foot means death.

 

And now, we transition to cars:

 

Car health is incredibly high and you are basically invincible while moving.

Car damage takes forever to develop.

Cars cannot be permanently flipped (you can easily flip them back).

Cars are basically glued to the ground.

 

No matter if you like/dislike the driving in this game, you have to admit there's a disparity here. The transition from realistic to arcade is instant. And that, to some people, is problematic.

 

Consistency is the answer. I don't believe anyone who has played Saints Row 4 would be complaining about unrealistic physics, because the game is entirely unrealistic. However, this is not the case in GTA:V.

 

One moment, you die from taking 3 or 4 bullets from police on foot. The next, you're being chased for half an hour because police can't stop your car no matter their best efforts.

 

One moment, you die from being clipped by a car going 20 mph. The next, you're doing 90 degree turns in an SUV going full speed.

 

I urge everyone to think about this situation from this perspective. If the game was entirely unrealistic, I don't believe as many people would be complaining. But the game is filled with attempts at being realistic -- heck, look at the activity choices: Tennis, golf, yoga ... etc.

 

But then, you are taken from that "realistic" mindset and thrown into a completely unrealistic set of circumstances with no real reasoning as to why. It's as though on-foot gameplay and activities were developed by an entirely different studio than the driving mechanics.

 

 

This all sounds reasonable but I haven't played it so I ask you to consider:

 

  • Cars must be strong so that players who collide constantly can still enjoy it (you ever seen bad game-drivers on GTA? hehe, it's actually quite funny).

 

  • The stopping speed of the car crashes seem legit, and they're using the weight vs weight idea for the collisions, could it be that your intuition regarding how the crashes will look is simply not yet used to the way GTAV runs?

 

  • The combination of that stopping effect, as well as the lack of car's crushing means it has to look awkward and somewhat unnatural.

 

  • Cars are quite a lot tougher than people and so they should appear this way in game. You can't put a few bullets into a car and expect it to not run.

 

  • The mix of realism and game-ness (because it is a game) may be what causes the sense of a lack of continuity regarding the realism.

 

  • There needs to be a noticable improvement as the driving skill goes up and so in the first few weeks of play I doubt anyone will really get the full driving package.

 

I'm not against the idea that the driving may be 'rubbish', but I would like those things to be considered by you as a player. Look forward to hearing back.


DymeDef
  • DymeDef

    Mack Pimp

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  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013

#297

Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:06 AM Edited by DymeDef, 17 September 2013 - 02:22 AM.

 

... has an identity crisis.

 

I am going to preface this by asking readers to please read entirely and, if you choose to respond, please do so by putting your "big boy" pants on.

 

There are tons of topics out there complaining about driving physics, car damage, etc. This is not one of them. This is merely a means to convey the issue at hand from a proper perspective.

 

The issue here is not so much the physics in my mind; rather, it's the fact GTA is inconsistent in how it handles the world in general.

 

Your health is low (realistic).

NPC health is low and can be KO'd by a single punch or knife strike (realistic).

Running speed is slow (realistic).

Bicycling speed is slow (realistic).

The slightest mistake on foot means death.

 

And now, we transition to cars:

 

Car health is incredibly high and you are basically invincible while moving.

Car damage takes forever to develop.

Cars cannot be permanently flipped (you can easily flip them back).

Cars are basically glued to the ground.

 

No matter if you like/dislike the driving in this game, you have to admit there's a disparity here. The transition from realistic to arcade is instant. And that, to some people, is problematic.

 

Consistency is the answer. I don't believe anyone who has played Saints Row 4 would be complaining about unrealistic physics, because the game is entirely unrealistic. However, this is not the case in GTA:V.

 

One moment, you die from taking 3 or 4 bullets from police on foot. The next, you're being chased for half an hour because police can't stop your car no matter their best efforts.

 

One moment, you die from being clipped by a car going 20 mph. The next, you're doing 90 degree turns in an SUV going full speed.

 

I urge everyone to think about this situation from this perspective. If the game was entirely unrealistic, I don't believe as many people would be complaining. But the game is filled with attempts at being realistic -- heck, look at the activity choices: Tennis, golf, yoga ... etc.

 

But then, you are taken from that "realistic" mindset and thrown into a completely unrealistic set of circumstances with no real reasoning as to why. It's as though on-foot gameplay and activities were developed by an entirely different studio than the driving mechanics.

 

 

This all sounds reasonable but I haven't played it so I ask you to consider:

 

  • Cars must be strong so that players who collide constantly can still enjoy it (you ever seen bad game-drivers on GTA? hehe, it's actually quite funny).

 

  • The stopping speed of the car crashes seem legit, and they're using the weight vs weight idea for the collisions, could it be that your intuition regarding how the crashes will look is simply not yet used to the way GTAV runs?

 

  • The combination of that stopping effect, as well as the lack of car's crushing means it has to look awkward and somewhat unnatural.

 

  • Cars are quite a lot tougher than people and so they should appear this way in game. You can't put a few bullets into a car and expect it to not run.

 

  • The mix of realism and game-ness (because it is a game) may be what causes the sense of a lack of continuity regarding the realism.

 

  • There needs to be a noticable improvement as the driving skill goes up and so in the first few weeks of play I doubt anyone will really get the full driving package.

 

I'm not against the idea that the driving may be 'rubbish', but I would like those things to be considered by you as a player. Look forward to hearing back.

 

Good points and interesting. Pookie has a point, and the crashing is a bit on the sh*tty side. But, some of these points you bring up hold weight and I think after a bit we will not notice it so much after we play more. I have begun to not notice it as much and have only had it since thursday, but I also didn't have a huge problem with it before.

 

--In response to all the people talking about how unrealistic the driving is to on foot (Below)--

 

I would like to invite you all to shoot up a real car with a real weapon to be found in GTA V. I would love to see your results. I would guess that after about 1000 rounds into the body at random (no one ONLY hits people in a car that is flying down the road while you are driving too) you would be driving the car perfectly fine other than the holes in the car.

 

Go ahead and fire them off at the engine, its going to take a while before the engine no longer works.

 

Now keep shooting and shooting and shooting and shooting and shooting until the car blows up. I will be back in about 40 years to check up on your progress (Tip: it wont happen).

 

The game is not realistic anyways on foot, because I have taken several shots to the face, I regen health, I can run for unbelievable amounts of time, I can go months without eating, sleeping or drinking. I can even get hit by a car going extremely fast and survive.

 

Stop acting like cars are the ONLY unrealistic part of the game. Oh wait, I said the magic word..... GAME.

 

God damn, before the game came out, everyone BITCHED about making it more real. They said "go play the sims" or "go outside and play real life". Yet now, they are only complaining about how unrealistic the driving is. Well, hate to break it to you, but it is much more than JUST the driving.

 

Don't forget, you can DIE, go to the hospital and for a few hundred dollars you can be back in action ready to do whatever in perfect shape after about 4-6 hours of treatment after taking several buckshot shells to your body and face.

 

Sigh.... I know the driving is much more unrealistic than the on foot part, but seriously you lot can be ridiculous. The game is a freaking game. It would not be fun to have to leave your car you just put over 50k into because you took that corner 5mph too fast and now it is completely totaled and you have nothing to get it back. Bye bye monies, and with certain characters at certain times of the game, money is damn scarce. There has to be a balance between realism and being a fun game. If you wanted realism, then you would get dropped to the ground anytime you got shot, if you took a shot to the upper chest you have about a 90% chance to die, head 98%, legs you can't move, arms you can't fight back. You would bleed out until you were able to treat yourself which means good bye any chance for doing anything. If you got hit by a car you would break bones and have to wait months to play again, and have to go through physical therapy. when you get killed in chase you would rot in prison after being magically revived, and for several years. When you get arrested (I know, who gets arrested in GTA lol) you would lose all your guns, all your money, you would have fines out the ass and would be rotting in jail/prison for years.

 

Get where this is going? Probably not, because if I know anything about the people inhabiting this forum is most of them are too thick skulled to see past their own wants and no amount of evidence or debate will change that. So, I leave it there. If the game was SO realistic on foot, why are these things not implemented? Because it is not THAT realistic on foot. Granted driving could be better, but stop acting like GTA V on foot is like some life sim. Hardly....


dave343
  • dave343

    Player Hater

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  • Joined: 30 Nov 2007

#298

Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:17 AM

While I haven't had a chance to play GTA V yet, I did want to make a few comments regarding the handling, and damage to cars.

 

First off damage. In GTA IV Damage was love / hate relationship for me, and I'm sure some will agree with me on this.  On the one hand I always found endless fun in seeing how much abuse a car could take in IV.  Nothing more fun then doing 100km/hr and t-boning another car.

 

On the flip side... I hated it.  In IV you had to drive as if your car was made of glass. Damage was very easy to accumulate on cars, even from the slightest fender bender.  How many times were you driving that favourite car, or just had it re-painted to fix it up only to have a small fender bender which caused half the car to crumple. Yes, the damage was very fun and realistic, but it was also a hair pulling experience because of how easy it was to cause damage at such low speeds.  

 

At first I was a bit disappointing when I started to read this thread, because of how much I enjoyed the ability in IV to damage cars, and now reading it's slightly gone. But this is also a blessing because if I finally find THAT car I want, or have my car repaired, it infuriates me that a simple fender bender would cause sooo much damage. 

 

As far as the handling, I haven't play V so I can't comment, but I will say a few things on IV's handling. 

 

Again I would have to say it was a love hate thing.... I liked the ability to pull handbrake turns in intersections, probably my favourite part, but at the same time the cars did have a major boat effect to them and the suspension felt super loose.  

 

You can't and won't please everyone, especially with a game of this magnitude.

From the sounds of it, R* has taken previous games, complaints, and positive things into consideration and tried to accommodate as many as they could.  You're never going to have that perfect game, and if it IS perfect for you, it's not for others. 

 

 

 

 


voad1
  • voad1

    Prankster

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  • Joined: 24 Aug 2013

#299

Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:28 AM Edited by voad1, 17 September 2013 - 09:34 AM.

 

 

 But inconsistencies can give better gameplay, like more fluid and fast car chases and shoot outs because of auto lock on or being able to take corners easily.

 

I believe you just contradicted yourself here. You stated that fluid and fast car chases give better gameplay because it is easier, or to quote you directly "take corners easier". Making a game easy does not enhance the gameplay in fact it can destroy it by making reducing the effort to create a desirable outcome in the game world. GTA 4's driving is simply superior, regardless of its' flaws, because it required significant skill to maintain control over the vehicle. Even at relatively mild velocities you had to have awareness and pay attention to your cars handling and orientation. What GTA 5 has done is displace the threshold of failure discounting skill and luck. Take note many games are enjoyable because of luck and randomness and GTA 4 had that in spades as many of the crashes were spontaneous and unpredictable.

 

When a game becomes harder and you succeed the sense of accomplishment will always be greater because of the acknowledgement of skill or the realization of the potential loss you might have taken on the gamble. When the victory costs you little the victory means little. Modern gamers simply want more power and more capabilities and in many ways they want to be fed teh experience. We can see this in the trend of many modern military shooters that are tremendously linear which don't require you to choose your approach(essentially somebody plays the game for you forcing the most efficient route) or cut-scene heavy games where you dont' interact at all, just sit back and watch. Some games have hours upon hours of cut scenes reducing the requirement of game play and the need for skill. You have eliminated the interactivity much like GTA 5's driving has limited the interactivity by not punishing you for failing to use your breaks or colliding with environmental objects.

 

Again this shows a rather glaring contradiction or lack of consistency as the OP said. The shooting and on foot action is very difficult but the vehicle stuff reduces the need for inputs and adaption to changing environmental conditions. 

 

Also as far as the autolock is concerned this is a different argument. Gamepads are inferior peripherals for aiming target reticles , a lock on is reasonable contrivance to compenstate for the lack of a mouse as you dont' want the operator fighting with the interface itself .. Totally different issue

 

In another topic someone told me I can't shoot because I want soft lock. He also told me I can't drive because I think making the driving more arcady from IV to V is a good move. Ironically enough I'm a better driver than a shooter.

 

I don't think I contradicted myself ever. I think the arcady driving does give better gameplay. Sometimes chases in IV felt slow and boring because each turn you were driving a car or a bike that acted like a goddamn boat. I think the faster more responsive driving will result in better gameplay. I have to play the game to give my final verdict on it though.

 

And it's the exact same with the auto lock. It keeps it up tempo. The v handling is kinda like auto fast cornering haha. It keeps everything up tempo. But I understand that other people might prefer different gameplay. That's fine. It's nice to share opinions on it though.

 

I disagree. It plays the game for you. Did you also think it was fun playing GTA 4 or RDR online with auto lock? What is the fun in not aiming? What is fun in having to do no more than holding down one button and pressing another to succeed? Why wouldn't you want a challenge? Isn't that a big part of why we play games online? To be competitive. To test your skills against another person, which should prove more difficult and challenging than against an ai.

 

It's not ironic that you are a better driver than a shooter. They seem to have made the shooting a little more challenging in V and the driving is so incredibly easy a cave man could do it.(Geico commercial) lol

 

It is no wonder you are a batter driver than a shooter. Driving takes substantially less skill than I think it has in any GTA to come before it. Or maybe it is just as much as the 3 era games. But I remember SA being more challenging than this. The shooting while not super hard, seems more deadly. So there is much less margin for error.


voad1
  • voad1

    Prankster

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  • Joined: 24 Aug 2013

#300

Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:38 AM

While I haven't had a chance to play GTA V yet, I did want to make a few comments regarding the handling, and damage to cars.

 

First off damage. In GTA IV Damage was love / hate relationship for me, and I'm sure some will agree with me on this.  On the one hand I always found endless fun in seeing how much abuse a car could take in IV.  Nothing more fun then doing 100km/hr and t-boning another car.

 

On the flip side... I hated it.  In IV you had to drive as if your car was made of glass. Damage was very easy to accumulate on cars, even from the slightest fender bender.  How many times were you driving that favourite car, or just had it re-painted to fix it up only to have a small fender bender which caused half the car to crumple. Yes, the damage was very fun and realistic, but it was also a hair pulling experience because of how easy it was to cause damage at such low speeds.  

 

At first I was a bit disappointing when I started to read this thread, because of how much I enjoyed the ability in IV to damage cars, and now reading it's slightly gone. But this is also a blessing because if I finally find THAT car I want, or have my car repaired, it infuriates me that a simple fender bender would cause sooo much damage. 

 

As far as the handling, I haven't play V so I can't comment, but I will say a few things on IV's handling. 

 

Again I would have to say it was a love hate thing.... I liked the ability to pull handbrake turns in intersections, probably my favourite part, but at the same time the cars did have a major boat effect to them and the suspension felt super loose.  

 

You can't and won't please everyone, especially with a game of this magnitude.

From the sounds of it, R* has taken previous games, complaints, and positive things into consideration and tried to accommodate as many as they could.  You're never going to have that perfect game, and if it IS perfect for you, it's not for others. 

 

 

 

 

I don't know. I thought having car insurance was a good way of dealing with some of those issues. And people complain there is nothing to spend money on in these games. I think car customization, tuning, repair, insurance, etc seems like a good money sink. But why even bother buying insurance or upgrading a car with armor when it is already nearly indestructible. I am exaggerating a bit... but not much. I spent what seemed like quite a while smashing a car into things with no exciting outcome or very noticeable damage. I just took it back to a garage and it was fixed for free.





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