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The issue with driving/damage is not the handling. It's that GTA:V

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pookie1
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#1

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:15 PM Edited by pookie1, 15 September 2013 - 07:37 PM.

... has an identity crisis.

 

I am going to preface this by asking readers to please read entirely and, if you choose to respond, please do so by putting your "big boy" pants on.

 

There are tons of topics out there complaining about driving physics, car damage, etc. This is not one of them. This is merely a means to convey the issue at hand from a proper perspective.

 

The issue here is not so much the physics in my mind; rather, it's the fact GTA is inconsistent in how it handles the world in general.

 

Your health is low (realistic).

NPC health is low and can be KO'd by a single punch or knife strike (realistic).

Running speed is slow (realistic).

Bicycling speed is slow (realistic).

The slightest mistake on foot means death.

 

And now, we transition to cars:

 

Car health is incredibly high and you are basically invincible while moving.

Car damage takes forever to develop.

Cars cannot be permanently flipped (you can easily flip them back).

Cars are basically glued to the ground.

 

No matter if you like/dislike the driving in this game, you have to admit there's a disparity here. The transition from realistic to arcade is instant. And that, to some people, is problematic.

 

Consistency is the answer. I don't believe anyone who has played Saints Row 4 would be complaining about unrealistic physics, because the game is entirely unrealistic. However, this is not the case in GTA:V.

 

One moment, you die from taking 3 or 4 bullets from police on foot. The next, you're being chased for half an hour because police can't stop your car no matter their best efforts.

 

One moment, you die from being clipped by a car going 20 mph. The next, you're doing 90 degree turns in an SUV going full speed.

 

I urge everyone to think about this situation from this perspective. If the game was entirely unrealistic, I don't believe as many people would be complaining. But the game is filled with attempts at being realistic -- heck, look at the activity choices: Tennis, golf, yoga ... etc.

 

But then, you are taken from that "realistic" mindset and thrown into a completely unrealistic set of circumstances with no real reasoning as to why. It's as though on-foot gameplay and activities were developed by an entirely different studio than the driving mechanics.

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trialsiain
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#2

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

this is so true, you will get lots of sh*t for this but its true.


Mawfawk
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#3

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

Amen

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LWE112
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#4

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:19 PM

This topic deserves a MEDAL!

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Gunslinger_GK
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#5

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

True, nice post op

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Snake Without a Tongue
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#6

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

Well put, OP.


twigs2001
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#7

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

No suspension on motorbikes (and barely any vehicles). /thread.

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pookie1
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#8

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for the support so far guys, but this isn't meant to be a topic where everyone agrees.

 

I am open to debate on this issue. And to me, it's an issue. Though some people disliked GTA4's attempt at "realism," you cannot deny they at least stayed consistent in their attempt.

 

GTA5, from what I've played, watched and read, is very confused. It wants to be hyper-realistic, then changes its mind entirely.

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stonz52
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#9

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:22 PM

its terrible what they did to the driving... people like playing this game.. no hud... no gps... subtitles on... 


rampage08
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#10

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:22 PM

This post blew my mind, thanks for posting man

Woody1888
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#11

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

yes I completely agree..... but is it not true that the driving was done by a completely different studio? aka midnight club ppl. and I think they are all high imo

koothara
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#12

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

I don't know about others but this thread increased my hype further. GTA IV driving felt too unrealistic for me and i am happy about hearing V driving style.

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Ronrollin9434
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#13

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:26 PM

The problem isn't the realism, trust me. It's a couple things:


Driving is too much like MCLA

the cars are too durable to cater to people who buy/customize cars...

And there are no cool activities... Where's the drug dealing? Casinos? Gang wars?
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pookie1
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#14

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:26 PM

This post blew my mind, thanks for posting man

 

No problem. I think many people share this outlook but have been trying to find a way to say it.

 

Not that my logic here is anything special, but it's an issue in my book. Imagine if Saints Row 4 had realistic activities alongside superhero powers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Now that's an exaggerated example as there are no superhero powers in GTA:V ... but the cars are almost invincible and do not obey the laws of physics in most circumstances. Does that count as "superhero"?


AllenKS
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#15

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:27 PM

I want to debate with you OP, but you've made a valid point.

 

Not just are some points of the game clearly aiming for realism, Dan Houser's own comments in his interview says that realism has always been a goal of the series, and that they won't stop until GTA simulates the world outside.

 

Then they go in an opposite direction with the driving physics, and ONLY the driving physics.. It's weird to say the least. No one's saying GTA IV was perfect, but atleast it tried.

 

Seems like GTA V just gave up..

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Seriousman
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#16

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

People complained back when GTA IV was released about the driving mechanics. Some people even said it was too realistic! Rockstar have obviously been listening to us and trying to make us happy by changing some of the things that we didn't like from GTA IV. I understand that there are people out there who haven't played the game and haven't gotten a feel of the driving themselves, yet are already complaining about the driving mechanics. I don't want my car to be un-drivable after I crash with another car. 


El Tel
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#17

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

I agree to some extent. But I think a game with so huge a scope as GTA V and such a large target audience is never going to be able to please everyone. No matter what Rockstar do, people are going to complain about one aspect or another. Even if they did attempt to address the "issue," of handling, they would just piss off another group of people in the process.

 

Personally, I will just accept the game for what it is, flaws and all. If the game disappoints me, which I highly doubt, then I will be much more skeptical about buying the next GTA. I won't, however, make endless threads in forums where I attempt to force people to accept my opinion on others while refusing to accept their opinion.

 

I'd like to say thanks OP, for offering a valid opinion and being open to a debate. Not a regular occurrence on these forums.

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almostrodney
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#18

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:29 PM

I shall comment when I play the game for myself, but yes I do see where your coming from.

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Racecarlock
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#19

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:30 PM

Nice reasoning and all, but I'm still going to enjoy this game. It's okay, you don't have to.

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Tuniturntablist
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#20

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:30 PM

So true, also notice the animations when you jump from a plane without parachute it was better in GTA IV (IMO).


the_mannn
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#21

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

So you seriously wish that the first time you find that bugatti and steal it, 15 seconds later its destroyed!!!

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pookie1
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#22

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

I want to debate with you OP, but you've made a valid point.

 

Not just are some points of the game clearly aiming for realism, Dan Houser's own comments in his interview says that realism has always been a goal of the series, and that they won't stop until GTA simulates the world outside.

 

Then they go in an opposite direction with the driving physics, and ONLY the driving physics.. It's weird to say the least. No one's saying GTA IV was perfect, but atleast it tried.

 

Seems like GTA V just gave up..

 

I can't say if they gave up, or they gave in. 

 

The problem was a vocal minority that encapsulated everyone from fans of the series to mainstream gaming media. People were largely critical of GTA 4's driving. So they responded.

 

But to me, they went in the absolute wrong direction. The decisions made to make the driving more "fun" actually make the driving even less realistic than GTA:III. At least in GTA:III, when you flipped your car, you had to get another one. And now, they've taken that element out entirely with no reason as to why.

 

Beyond that, there's nothing that compares to it while on foot. It's not like you can "click right stick to heal." No, on foot is basically a completely different game than driving. And again, that's a problem when so much of the game is split between these two elements. One moment, you're in "HEAT." The next, you're in "Fast and the Furious."

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Staanko
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#23

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:32 PM Edited by Staanko, 15 September 2013 - 05:33 PM.

I don't even see a problem with the physics and the damage thing.

If many people complain, R* will patch this soon. I mean, all they have to do is to reduce the damage tolerance.


lunishidd
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#24

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:32 PM

Absolutly agree OP, the game doesn't know what it wants to be.


josephene123
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#25

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:32 PM Edited by josephene123, 15 September 2013 - 05:37 PM.

This is exactly what I said in the 'GTA Driving downhill from here'/ whatever it's called thread, elaborated and explained in a superb way. Thank you.

 

I mean it goes further and sometimes elements from the driving is ultra realistic too. If you're in a tractor and you drive over a car, for example, the car will crumble beneath you in the manner we all know and loved from IV with the dynamic car damage, but yet you can drive at top speed into another car/ concrete wall and come away pretty much unscathed barring a few scratches.

 

I also find it entirely mind boggling that you can manually flip your car or turn it whilst in the air in the manner that is possible in this game. A few people were saying you could do that in IV but I never noticed it as much as in this game. I've seen people literally drive off slanted ramps/ ledges, be forced onto their side whilst in the air by the realistic physics, and then somehow they can manually spin the car back onto four wheels again, I can't imagine there being a sense of accomplishment for getting a jump right, there!

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AlasClarin
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#26

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

I hope Rockstar do something about this... they just have to take down the vehicles armor.


Malndor
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#27

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:35 PM Edited by Malndor, 15 September 2013 - 05:44 PM.

So in essence you're summing up everything people have been whinging about in a sophisticated manner. If misery loves company. If people did get what they want they would still whinge. To be honest previous GTA's didn't have GTA 4 style driving, it was only 1 game. Now it's changed everyone flips out as if it's been GTA 4 throughout the whole series.

 

People loved Vice City yet complain about GTA V. 

 

People complain that GTA V is unrealistic yet in GTA 4 you could fall from a high building an not die, also your car didn't get destroyed either at times yet they say GTA V needs to be 'fixed'

 

Change is good, not always but in this case GTA 4 was a failed attempt at realism. GTA as a series has NEVER been about Ultra Realistic, don't fix what ain't broke. GTA V is R* going back to it's roots. If you have played GTA 1 you know the difficulty of the police. 

 

Before you complain about the "This game doesn't know what it wants to be" It's GTA..... a mish mash melting pot. and need I remind you a GAME. People liked Saints Row yet does that have any consistency apart from being more absurd each game? but it made no Fn sense towards the end. Dildo Bats? I mean come on really?

 

The issue here is not so much the players having opinions ; rather, it's the fact they are hypocritical, petty, whingers.

 

One hand they are saying can't wait for GTA V, the next moment they're whinging and I question there creditably and even if they have been around the series since day one. 

 

The fact people people on average have played GTA V for 8 hours an consider that a basis of knowing all, makes me throw there opinions out the window.

 

It's a wait an see.


KillaDanny
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#28

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:36 PM Edited by KillaDanny, 15 September 2013 - 05:37 PM.

I dunno I don't saw nothing wrong with the car handling but the bike handling ughh when I saw that I actually understood some of the people that say handling is a little arcadey... still not a deal breaker this game is gonna be awesome either way


pookie1
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#29

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:36 PM

Absolutly agree OP, the game doesn't know what it wants to be.

 

To be clear, I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. Games have to grow up and mature just as humans do. But at this point, GTA needs to be firm in their stance of what it wants to be.

 

Look at Call of Duty, for example. Yes, I know lots of you hate it. But guess what? It is unapologetic as to what it is: an arcade shooter that uses the same formula, year-in, year-out. It's not trying to be something it isn't.

 

GTA4 took this huge leap towards realism. And now it's like GTA:V is backtracking only in some elements. To me, the game would've been better off to just go all-in with arcade rather than what it has done. There's no grey area. It's just pure arcade on one hand, and pure realism on the other. No middle ground.

 

And there's a time and place for arcade. Just Cause 2 was amazing. Saints Row 4 was enjoyable. But if Rockstar wants to continue its reign on the market, it at least needs to decide which of the two (realism vs. arcade) it wants to emulate.

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ruud.
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#30

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

 

And now, we transition to cars:

 

Car health is incredibly high and you are basically invincible while moving.

Car damage takes forever to develop.

Cars cannot be permanently flipped (you can easily flip them back).

Cars are basically glued to the ground.

 
"Car health is incredibly high and you are basically invincible while moving."
Isn't it on a similar level to IV? The engine fails from time to time after collisions, but it doesn't blow up easily.
 
"Car damage takes forever to develop."
You expected BeamNG physics? Really? On current-gen (soon to be last-gen) consoles?
 
"Cars cannot be permanently flipped (you can easily flip them back)."
What? I heard of control of your cars while it's mid-air, and I must say it's an irk for me, but it's minor, but can you confirm we can always flip your car back?
 
"Cars are basically glued to the ground."
Are you sure you aren't begging for attention now? Yes, there is a lack of suspension which is disappointing, but cars gets airborne just as realistically (or more so) as in IV driving off ramps/slopes/higher grounds.
 
Maybe put more thought into your post before making silly claims and implications, let alone creating a whole new thread for it.




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