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Feminism and GTA

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xymrn
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#1

Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:59 PM

I've been on this forum for a month or so now, but never created an account until reading the now closed thread about feminists speaking out on the lack of representation of women within gta. I'm absolutely disgusted with the ignorance being shown by most of you. Before I say anything else I think I need to clarify something that should be blatantly f*cking obvious; not all women are feminists, and not all men aren't. 

It was only a few days ago that I was on this site, reading through a conversation about how up until gta v, there has only been 1 protag that isn't white. So how is a similar conversation about the lack of female representation any different? It isn't. R* state their intentions and ambitions clearly with the gta franchise, especially with the announcement of gta online; that they want to create 'the world', and yet they couldn't be more backwards when it comes to the inhabitants of that world. Yes we have seen two female supporting roles in the past, but how many male supporting roles have we seen? There are countless. The biggest role a woman has ever had and still has in gta is either a stripper or a sex worker.

There have been comments on this thread ignorantly talking about how feminists have such a backwards view on equality and such, but as a self identifying male feminist, I'm sorry but you're all talking out of your arses. We are striving for equality, for everyone, including people of colour. There are two male black protagonists, but what about people belonging to other ethnic minorities? What about women? What about gay/lesbian/transgender? What about ANY representation of the queer community that lies outside of the safety net of rockstar's satire? There is none.

I'm not stupid. I'm well aware of how there is always going to be a lack of representation for some minority group, and this goes for all aspects of media within western society, but to not even strive towards some improvement is just plain ignorance. As a white privileged male, its my f*cking duty to speak out, especially in predominantly male spaces such as this, and when I see inexcusable and unapologetic misogyny like you have all shown. You would never speak to your mothers like the way you have done on this forum. You seriously disgust me. 

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Alenko
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#2

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:02 AM

Why wont you go play with Barbie dolls or something?

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Epsimrove
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#3

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:03 AM

In society criminals are sexist and to have a female be respected in that environment isn't feasible, sorry. If anything the addition of a female protagonist would be viewed as more sexist than not having them present at all.

 

It's the reality of our society and our species.


brian.
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#4

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:04 AM Edited by brian., 12 September 2013 - 12:08 AM.

It is just plain ignorant to think a female criminal exists like the ones you play as in GTA. Even Liz from GTA IV is nowhere NEAR the role, duties, nor position of a male in that world. 

 

In the criminal world, a female protagonist GTA would be a spy game, a sleep with the enemy game, a set-up game where a man is lured to meet your character, and then MEN come in and beat him or shoot him or whatever.

 

It would NOT be fun UNLESS you completely destroy and ignore the FACTS I have just told you, and destroy and ignore that GTA is a SOCIAL COMMENTARY which is THEMED at MEDIA. Thus the ISSUE is not and WILL NEVER be GTA's issue, it is Hollywood's issue, it is Television's issue.

 

And no one in television is STUPID enough to expect a show as fake as "Nikita Bellic: Street Warrior" to ever make it past the pilot before cancelation.

 

It is fake, feminist fantasy - it does NOT belong in social commentary. Keep that sh*t in fantasies - like Kick Ass, Enough, and Angelina Jolie movies. Not for GTA. And to lack that understanding = a lack of a basic understanding of the series.

 

I suggest you watch this, and learn what is lies by media. The feminist agenda is a DANGEROUS, GENDER BENDING LIE.

 

 

There, I've had my say - now would you like to debate it? Or do you agree that it is wrong to teach women all of these lies when the reality is pure and simple: WE ARE DIFFERENT. WOMEN do not play the GTA role in the criminal world. They play a much different role.

 

Catwoman is  VERY different from Batman.

 

GTA with a female protagonist - outside of DLC with a good purpose and themed to feel more feminine - again, spying, stealth, etc  - A female protag in GTA, would cease to be GTA.

 

It is hard enough to sit 2 hours through feminist gun toting female bullsh*t as it is, you expect a 90 or 100 hour game to do it? I think not.

 

You can be a girl in multiplayer, that is not the real game, the real story, the social commentary, it is just fun, that everyone can join in. YES a video game can support a female, but WITHOUT changing GTA entirely, its single player main-attraction DOES NOT.
 

Your opinion?

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TenEightyOne
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#5

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:04 AM

In society criminals are sexist and to have a female be respected in that environment isn't feasible, sorry. If anything the addition of a female protagonist would be viewed as more sexist than not having them present at all.

 

It's the reality of our society and our species.

 

I disagree entirely. We've seen strong proactive female characters throughout GTA... they've commanded respect with ease.

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GTAfan4life12
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#6

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:05 AM Edited by GTAfan4life12, 12 September 2013 - 12:11 AM.

Good thing women are not beheaded or stoned in Saudi Arabia and we focus on trivial things. Oh wait.............

 

You do realize GTA 5 is satire of society and parodies politics and culture.


IGhostUlt
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#7

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

dude does this matter? ppl always find sh*t to complain about

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Epsimrove
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#8

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

 

In society criminals are sexist and to have a female be respected in that environment isn't feasible, sorry. If anything the addition of a female protagonist would be viewed as more sexist than not having them present at all.

 

It's the reality of our society and our species.

 

I disagree entirely. We've seen strong proactive female characters throughout GTA... they've commanded respect with ease.

 

 

I have never seen them as intimidating personally and in reality they would have been rolled over.


Gsnipe
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#9

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

Dude I hear you on equality and all that jazz but to be honest GTA is not the place to start. The amount of grief you poured into that is warranted if we are talking about society as a whole, but bro, this is a video game forum. 


Huge Zits
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#10

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:08 AM Edited by Huge Zits, 12 September 2013 - 12:08 AM.

Remember, a lot of these forum members are childeren. I'm not even kidding.

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Johnny_Leyenda
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#11

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:08 AM

If you want smart arguments do not look here, most people are a**holes that either call other people trolls why doing no smart comments themselves or simply enjoy being rude. Which is understandable in a way, with so many threads per hour this forum gets, but as I said, this is no place for smart conversations.

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El Tel
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#12

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:08 AM


I'm not stupid.

Ron-Burgundy-Saying-I-Dont-Believe-You.g

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brian.
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#13

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

 

In society criminals are sexist and to have a female be respected in that environment isn't feasible, sorry. If anything the addition of a female protagonist would be viewed as more sexist than not having them present at all.

 

It's the reality of our society and our species.

 

I disagree entirely. We've seen strong proactive female characters throughout GTA... they've commanded respect with ease.

 

 

They had positions that do not make for a great game. Liz Torez the game would suck. She is in a power position - GTA protagonists are not. They are being controlled. 

 

And you disagreeing with him, only shows that you do not have connection to the underworld, cause if you did, you would know, "Nikita Bellic" or "Carlita Johnson" DOES NOT EXIST in real life, and without social commentary on Real Life, it's NOT gta  :^:


Epsimrove
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#14

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

Remember, a lot of these forum members are childeren. I'm not even kidding.

 

You are an optimistic fool, this would be a bad idea for the series and you know it.


x_CrazyBuns_x
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#15

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:11 AM

I'm all for equal rights and equal fights, women want to be treated as men, they should pay the same insurance, have equal opportunities etc and respect in life, I'm all for that. Howeves as a woman, one thing I don't get is complaining about about lack of a female lead character in a video game? I mean... to me a video game is a story, much like a Movie, it's something someones written to be told for entertainment. Nothing sinister intended, so if a certain persons vision for a story includes 1 male lead characters, 3, or 5 I'm not going to start picking up my sign and camping outside their house claiming there sexist and are against females having equal shares in stories. There are PLENTY of games, movies and other forms of entertainment out there where women are the leading, stronger roles. Feminists just make us seem like whiney complaining attention-seekers, so if anything to me feminists are actually making things worse >_<
 

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xymrn
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#16

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:12 AM

I can understand the balancing act between fair representation for the gamer, and trying to create a storyline that is 'believable' given the fact that the criminal world is predominantly populated by men.
But I think that R* have the opportunity to help break the mould in terms of the misogyny that goes on within the gaming world. I think it would be silly to think that the creators of gta have no leeway whatsoever when it comes to developing a storyline. I have the upmost faith in them that they could create a female protag and still be able to tell a convincing story. They have always been known for their social commentary so why not create a female lead that is facing such discrimination within her world? Its highly doable. 

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Huge Zits
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#17

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:13 AM

 

Remember, a lot of these forum members are childeren. I'm not even kidding.

 

You are an optimistic fool, this would be a bad idea for the series and you know it.

 

I was referring to the immature offensive comments.


sinceGTAIII
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#18

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:14 AM

Start your own company. Create the games you want with the characters you want. Do you own political dirty work.


HiddenStreet
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#19

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:15 AM

OP raises some good points, but at the end of the day, this isn't politics. We aren't talking about civil rights. We aren't talking about job place equality, economic equality, social equality, we're talking about a videogame. At the end of the day, it's no different than a feminist complaining that a world famous artist (who only paints pictures/sculptures of masculine figures/men) is not making art representing women.

 

This is the absolute worst way to convince Rockstar to include a woman as a main protagonist. Again, it's a videogame (artwork) not politics. So equality is pretty irrelevant.

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brian.
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#20

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:16 AM

You play GTA to simulate a realistic criminal adventure - putting a female as your player character immediately breaks that.

 

It is a social commentary - female protag -IN GTA~ completely breaks that and is not credible, thus, no suspension of disbelief can be attained.

 

Kotaku is warping the minds of young people, people who are too young to even know that all this feminist crap is really just rich men using women as puppets. That is a FACT.

 

Women's Rights is really Women's Slavery. back in the days, men PROVIDED for their women, and PROTECTED them from slavery under the goverment.

 

And rockefeller and his minions all set women against their men, and made women put on their own chains. 

 

RESEARCH IT.

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Schweppez
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#21

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:17 AM

So what if there aren't female protags in GTA?  Better than being shoe-horned into the story, just to keep people quiet.

Ever considered that maybe the writers (who are most likely male) just don't know how to write a story for a female protag.?


sSiL3NZz
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#22

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:17 AM Edited by sSiL3NZz, 12 September 2013 - 12:19 AM.

There has been several protagonists that are a part of the minority, also there's been more than one black protagonist. There might be a female protagonist in the future, but it's unlikely since it's hard to put females into context with the criminal underworld sometimes. Since it's very male dominated...


Balikye
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#23

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:18 AM

Intilectuals going at it! (See, I can't even spell inttilectuals...) I is not smurt.


Huge Zits
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#24

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:18 AM Edited by Huge Zits, 12 September 2013 - 12:19 AM.

I can understand the balancing act between fair representation for the gamer, and trying to create a storyline that is 'believable' given the fact that the criminal world is predominantly populated by men.
But I think that R* have the opportunity to help break the mould in terms of the misogyny that goes on within the gaming world. I think it would be silly to think that the creators of gta have no leeway whatsoever when it comes to developing a storyline. I have the upmost faith in them that they could create a female protag and still be able to tell a convincing story. They have always been known for their social commentary so why not create a female lead that is facing such discrimination within her world? Its highly doable. 

I feel you.

 

From what I've seen, R* uses the main characters to retell action movie cliches since GTA is a big work of satire. I think that's a strong factor of their choice of gender protagonists.


Epsimrove
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#25

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:19 AM Edited by Epsimrove, 12 September 2013 - 12:20 AM.

When there is sex equality in criminal activity let me know; until then Jimbo being Cinderella and Lopez being Montana doesn't work.


needhaje
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#26

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:20 AM

A valiant effort, OP, but it's like talking to a goddamned brick wall. The vast majority of people here are immensely childish and won't seriously be able to have conversations like this for a long time, and many are fully grown adults who act the same. Much respect for saying what you said though.

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leon3789
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#27

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:21 AM

First and most importantly, never call someone who wants equal right for women a Feminist. That title has been tainted in the WORST ways, and yes most of the vocal Feminist's do NOT want equal rights, they want women to have more rights then men. 

 

With that out of the way onto the topic at large. 

 

I really think people need to understand that you can't just force a character into a story. This story would not be the same story if they changed around the characters for it. 

 

You also can not FORCE someone to make a story, while forcing them to make the story to focus on a certain sex or race. It limits them greatly with what they can do.

 

Not having a female lead in GTA V is NOT sexist, no matter how much people try to say it is. 

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Drwho94
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#28

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:22 AM

I've been on this forum for a month or so now, but never created an account until reading the now closed thread about feminists speaking out on the lack of representation of women within gta. I'm absolutely disgusted with the ignorance being shown by most of you. Before I say anything else I think I need to clarify something that should be blatantly f*cking obvious; not all women are feminists, and not all men aren't. 

It was only a few days ago that I was on this site, reading through a conversation about how up until gta v, there has only been 1 protag that isn't white. So how is a similar conversation about the lack of female representation any different? It isn't. R* state their intentions and ambitions clearly with the gta franchise, especially with the announcement of gta online; that they want to create 'the world', and yet they couldn't be more backwards when it comes to the inhabitants of that world. Yes we have seen two female supporting roles in the past, but how many male supporting roles have we seen? There are countless. The biggest role a woman has ever had and still has in gta is either a stripper or a sex worker.

There have been comments on this thread ignorantly talking about how feminists have such a backwards view on equality and such, but as a self identifying male feminist, I'm sorry but you're all talking out of your arses. We are striving for equality, for everyone, including people of colour. There are two male black protagonists, but what about people belonging to other ethnic minorities? What about women? What about gay/lesbian/transgender? What about ANY representation of the queer community that lies outside of the safety net of rockstar's satire? There is none.

I'm not stupid. I'm well aware of how there is always going to be a lack of representation for some minority group, and this goes for all aspects of media within western society, but to not even strive towards some improvement is just plain ignorance. As a white privileged male, its my f*cking duty to speak out, especially in predominantly male spaces such as this, and when I see inexcusable and unapologetic misogyny like you have all shown. You would never speak to your mothers like the way you have done on this forum. You seriously disgust me. 

 

A male feminist? Have you had your balls chopped off or something?

 

I am getting sick of Feminists in the gaming industry because they blast a developer of they give her tits. For years we have known that there will be 3 male protags, and only now you start bitching about it? No one cares, everyone ignores the games that end up being ruined because feminists think "OMG she has bigger tits than me, better say 'MUH RAPE CULTURE'". 

 

Let the developers develop their games how they would like to, not how you would like it. Besides feminists don't even campaign for equality anymore they just want to take away everything that men enjoy. Did men rise up when films like Magic Mike got released? Did men argue about 50 shades of grey. No we f*cking didn't because that is what you enjoy, so we let you have that. But if it's something us men enjoy you all think we are going to rape someone. 

 

Fact of the matter is gtfo of the game industry, most of us are starting to boycott games that cater to feminists now or change their ideas because you have a problem with it. 

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MrSpooge
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#29

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:23 AM Edited by MrSpooge, 12 September 2013 - 12:30 AM.

Edit - SNIP WTF OMG I JUST DID THAT HA!


HiddenStreet
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#30

Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:23 AM Edited by HiddenStreet, 12 September 2013 - 12:27 AM.

-snip-

 

why do I always have the last post on the page?





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