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Do you think its ok for goverment to be allowed to check our email?

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sivispacem
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#31

Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:30 PM

it's a perversion, especially if they use "webcams" to watch us...they should put themselves on the pervs list in that case..

Are you implying that federal officers and police staff gain sexual gratification from a misuse of their capability to spy on individuals? If so, I'd really like to see some evidence to corroborate this statement.
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#32

Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:50 PM Edited by ItalianStalion, 13 September 2013 - 06:51 PM.

 

it's a perversion, especially if they use "webcams" to watch us...they should put themselves on the pervs list in that case..

Are you implying that federal officers and police staff gain sexual gratification from a misuse of their capability to spy on individuals? If so, I'd really like to see some evidence to corroborate this statement.

 

No, clearly just your mind thinking that. :/


sivispacem
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#33

Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:32 PM Edited by sivispacem, 13 September 2013 - 07:33 PM.

it's a perversion, especially if they use "webcams" to watch us...they should put themselves on the pervs list in that case..

Are you implying that federal officers and police staff gain sexual gratification from a misuse of their capability to spy on individuals? If so, I'd really like to see some evidence to corroborate this statement.

No, clearly just your mind thinking that. :/

This isn't General Chat, come back when you have something worth contributing that isn't just spam, please.

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#34

Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:39 PM

I honestly don't care that what my message and browsing is potentially being watched. I have nothing to hide. I'm one person out of tens of millions of people being potentially being watched. Some bloke who might do this many, many times a day isn't going to give an ass what I browse. If I'm watched, they'll see that nothing is going on and move on, forget about me. Big f*cking deal.

 

Besides, I seriously doubt anyone doing the monitoring is sitting at a desk and going through your average Mohammed's Email. They're on the lookout for threats, they don't give care about what porn I'm into or the college work I send to my teachers through Email. Despite how fun it is to quote Ben Franklin on the subject, although I suppose this is more for Americans really, but I'm perfectly happy to sacrifice liberty, privacy, for security.

 

I suppose this would work a bit better if I was in America, but it still applies and from what admittedly little I've really followed about this whole spying thing we're being monitored just as much over here. But feel free to enlighten me.

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#35

Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:14 PM

The way I see it is the government isn't looking at your email because they want to see that photo you emailed showing you enjoying a blunt. They're looking at it to protect us from sh*tty terrorist motherf*ckers that want to blow sh*t up because they don't understand what Jihad is.

I don't plan on blowing up a building with a couple hundred people in it so, personally, I don't have a problem with it. However, if it starts to become a petty crime detector then there will be a problem.

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#36

Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:03 AM

However, if it starts to become a petty crime detector then there will be a problem.

Exactly... we've seen some issues with the government using the patriot act to enforce drug crimes but this has really been cut down since the Obama administration. In terms of surveillance of email/phone - I think if you survey the public at large and say "should your email and phone be monitored to stop a terror attack" overwhelmingly you will get a "yes" answer... if you ask the same question but "to take crack off the street" the answer will probably be a no.

 

And this system as it is currently designed is not really going to ever be a petty crime detector, even with regard to drugs as the NSA does not do much at all with regard to drugs, other than on an international scale and involving narcoterrorism. 


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#37

Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

^ But I'm fairly certain that drug related crimes kill more people in the US than terrorist attacks. Isn't this a perfect example of using jingoism to expand government power?


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#38

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

^ But I'm fairly certain that drug related crimes kill more people in the US than terrorist attacks. Isn't this a perfect example of using jingoism to expand government power?

Not necessarily. More people die from falling off of ladders each year too. The issue with terrorism is not just protecting life - but protecting the way of life. Let's say for a moment we had little to no infrastructure for preventing terrorists. Each month a bus blew up, a building, etc. somewhere in the US. There would be mass panic and fear. People would not want to go to work. People would not want to get on a plane, go on trips to cities, etc. But if we zoom out and look at these hypothetical bombings, if a building/bus/train blew up every month in the US, the amount of people dying from falling off of ladders would probably still be greater - but people falling of ladders would not stop the daily operation/interrupt the institutions of government.

 

Terrorism is about more than just killing people. Terrorist groups kill people to achieve a greater goal, which is the dismantling of the institutions of the particular nation.

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#39

Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

But is the way of life really under threat? It's uncontentious to say that terrorism is exceptional because of the social and cultural ramifications, but doesn't necessarily mean that society is empirically better off with these measures in place. Will a bus blow up every month without these measures? If that were the case, would society's functioning be noticeably hindered? America has a school shooting several times a year, and yet people still get up and go to work- in fact, in response to school shootings, policy hasn't changed in any meaningful way. The only difference I'm seeing between terrorism and school shootings is that the former ignites sparks of nationalism.

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lil weasel
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#40

Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:37 AM

No more than I think the Postal Service Employee's need to inspect the mail.

It's just an intrusion into the privacy of the people. There was no Terrorists to worry about when the Inspectors got the power, just a need for the Religious to ensure that no 'Porn' was being passed around. (The Comstock Act of 1873)


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#41

Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:53 PM


It's just an intrusion into the privacy of the people.

 

you should read the whole topic before replying.

we've already been over this.

 

your email does not fall within the purview of legal privacy protections.

there is nothing that guarantees a right to privacy when it comes to third-party email applications especially after you sign their Terms of Service Agreement that you definitely never read but always click YES to :pp


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#42

Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:43 PM Edited by lil weasel, 19 September 2013 - 05:58 PM.

 


It's just an intrusion into the privacy of the people.

 

you should read the whole topic before replying.

we've already been over this.

 

your email does not fall within the purview of legal privacy protections.

there is nothing that guarantees a right to privacy when it comes to third-party email applications especially after you sign their Terms of Service Agreement that you definitely never read but always click YES to :pp

So you've had your say, now I've had mine. You should read the topic title...   

"Do you think its ok for gover[n]ment to be allowed to check our email?"

I am answering the question in the topic title, not the replies.  Your personal ramblings have nothing to do with my opinion on the 'subject'. The LAW as written and interpreted doesn't agree with my opinion, that doesn't change  the opinion.   I'd be just as happy to break down your door and confiscate your computer and papers because of something you wrote, just because it's the Law whether I agree with it or not, if it's my job to do so.

Reading Agreements, yes I do, looking for that little bit of out of the ordinary. And, they are nothing more than the Releases you are forced to sign under duress in medical centers. If you don't sign you don't get the service.

So (we) Deal with it.


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#43

Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:35 PM

ok but why should email/chat be private?

 

it's an instantaneous, global, anonymous form of communication which means it's ideal for all things good or bad which means it's an ideal place to scan for threats in the 21st century. the government should absolutely have the ability to pull up your online correspondences if they ping a red flag. the government shouldn't (and doesn't) have the ability the openly query or read anyone's communications for any reason; due process is still involved.

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lil weasel
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#44

Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:58 PM Edited by sivispacem, 01 October 2013 - 05:55 PM.

ok but why should email/chat be private?

Due process is what? It is what the Government employees say it is. Need a Warrant? It's what the Employee puts on paper and a 'Judge' agrees to (without personal knowledge) on the Oath of that employee. Oath=word. Would you trust the word of someone with an agenda? Do you know that that person doesn't have an agenda, and is 'just doing his job'?

It seems the word Government implies some dutiful, honest body. Few view Government as a bunch of Individuals working for the "Eagle's" droppings.

I looked around and found this tiny list of what some agencies consider RED FLAG words. Print the list and cross off the ones you have used recently.:

The mention of any governmental organization, or title. plus words such as:

 

Assassination, Attack, Domestic security, Drill, Exercise, Cops, Law enforcement, Authorities, Disaster assistance, Disaster management, DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office), National preparedness, Mitigation, Prevention, Response, Recovery, Dirty Bomb, Domestic nuclear detection, Emergency management, Emergency response, First responder, Homeland security, Maritime domain awareness (MDA), National preparedness initiative, Militia, Shooting, Shots fired, Evacuation, Deaths, Hostage, Explosion (explosive), Police, Disaster medical assistance team (DMAT), Organized crime, Gangs, National security, State of emergency, Security, Breach, Threat, Standoff, SWAT, Screening, Lockdown, Bomb (squad or threat), Crash, Looting, Riot, Emergency Landing, Pipe bomb, Incident, Facility

Hazmat, Nuclear, Chemical Spill, Suspicious package/device, Toxic, National laboratory, Nuclear facility, Nuclear threat, Cloud, Plume, Radiation, Radioactive, Leak, Biological infection (or event), Chemical, Chemical burn, Biological, Epidemic, Hazardous, Hazardous material incident, Industrial spill, Infection, Powder (white), Gas, Spillover, Anthrax, Blister agent, Exposure, Burn, Nerve agent, Ricin, Sarin, North Korea,

Outbreak, Contamination, Exposure, Virus, Evacuation, Bacteria, Recall, Ebola, Food Poisoning, Foot and Mouth (FMD), H5N1, Avian, Flu, Salmonella, Small Pox, Plague, Human to human, Human to ANIMAL, Influenza, Center for Disease Control (CDC), Drug Administration (FDA), Public Health, Toxic, Agro Terror, Tuberculosis (TB), Agriculture, Listeria, Symptoms, Mutation, Resistant, Antiviral, Wave, Pandemic, Infection, Water/air borne, Sick, Swine, Pork, Strain, Quarantine, H1N1, Vaccine, Tamiflu, Norvo Virus, Epidemic, World Health Organization (WHO and components), Viral Hemorrhagic Fever, E. Coli,

Infrastructure security, Airport, CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources), AMTRAK, Collapse, Computer infrastructure, Communications infrastructure, Telecommunications, Critical infrastructure, National infrastructure, Metro, WMATA, Airplane (and derivatives), Chemical fire, Subway, BART, MARTA, Port Authority, NBIC (National Biosurveillance Integration Center), Transportation security, Grid, Power, Smart, Body scanner, Electric, Failure or outage, Black out, Brown out, Port, Dock, Bridge, Canceled, Delays, Service disruption, Power lines, Drug cartel, Violence, Gang, Drug, Narcotics, Cocaine, Marijuana, Heroin, Border, Mexico, Cartel, Southwest, Juarez, Sinaloa, Tijuana, Torreon, Yuma, Tucson, Decapitated, U.S. Consulate, Consular, El Paso, Fort Hancock, San Diego, Ciudad Juarez, Nogales, Sonora, Colombia, Mara salvatrucha, MS13 or MS-13, Drug war, Mexican army, Methamphetamine, Cartel de Golfo, Gulf Cartel, La Familia, Reynose, Nuevo Leon, Narcos, Narco banners (Spanish equivalents), Los Zetas, Shootout, Execution, Gunfight, Trafficking, Kidnap, Calderon, Reyosa, Bust, Tamaulipas, Meth Lab, Drug trade, Illegal immigrants, Smuggling (smugglers), Matamoros, Michoacana, Guzman, Arellano-Felix, Beltran-Leyva, Barrio Azteca, Artistics Assassins, Mexicles, New Federation, Terrorism, Al Queda (all spellings), Terror, Attack, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Agro, Environmental terrorist, Eco terrorism, Conventional weapon, Target, Weapons grade, Dirty bomb, Enriched, Nuclear, Chemical weapon, Biological weapon, Ammonium nitrate, Improvised explosive device, IED (Improvised Explosive Device), Abu Sayyaf, Hamas, FARC (Armed Revolutionary Forces Colombia), IRA (Irish Republican Army), ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna), Basque Separatists, Hezbollah, Tamil Tiger, PLF (Palestine Liberation Front), PLO (Palestine Libration Organization), Car bomb, Jihad, Taliban, Weapons cache, Suicide bomber, Suicide attack, Suspicious substance, AQAP (Al Qaeda Arabian Peninsula), AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb), TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan), Yemen, Pirates, Extremism, Somalia, Nigeria, Radicals, Al-Shabaab, Home grown, Plot, Nationalist, Recruitment, Fundamentalism, Islamist, Emergency, Hurricane, Tornado, Twister, Tsunami, Earthquake, Tremor, Flood, Storm, Crest, Temblor, Extreme weather, Forest fire, Brush fire, Ice, Stranded/Stuck, Help, Hail, Wildfire, Tsunami Warning Center, Magnitude, Avalanche, Typhoon, Shelter-in-place, Disaster, Snow, Blizzard, Sleet, Mud slide or Mudslide, Erosion, Power outage, Brown out, Warning, Watch, Lightening, Aid, Relief, Closure, Interstate, Burst, Emergency Broadcast System, Cyber security, Botnet, DDOS (dedicated denial of service), Denial of service, Malware, Virus, Trojan, Keylogger, Cyber Command, 2600, Spammer, Phishing, Rootkit, Phreaking, Cain and abel, Brute forcing, Mysql injection, Cyber attack, Cyber terror, Hacker, China, Conficker, Worm, Scammers, Social media

 

Now keep in mind that anyone you communicate that has used a word from this list, and anyone you have talked to, and anyone they have talked to, et cetera is now on the Watch List for 'investigation' for possible Government action.

Got To Keep The World (U.S.) Safe, regardless of the co$t.

No one should fear enforcement investigation, when 'they' haven't done anything wrong, but then again, ... maybe 'they' are planning something... all criminals have to start somewhere, sometime.

Better everyone wear the shackles, than let one criminal walk around free.

 

-There, I fixed it so normal people can read it without getting severe eye strain. SVP-

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sivispacem
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#45

Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:57 PM Edited by sivispacem, 01 October 2013 - 05:57 PM.

That list of ECHELON trigger words was bullsh*t when it first got posted in the 80s, bullsh*t in the 90s when the advent of new threats resulted in people adding lots of sh*t to it, and is bullsh*t today. If you seriously think that intelligence agencies give a sh*t about phreaking or conficker you clearly don't have much of an understanding of their priorities. And "DDOS" doesn't stand for "dedicated denial of service", so whoever compiled the list clearly has no idea what they're talking about anyway.

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#46

Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:25 PM

I looked around and found this tiny list of what some agencies consider RED FLAG words. Print the list and cross off the ones you have used recently.:

The mention of any governmental organization, or title. plus words such as..............

 

normally I would point out how terrible you are at researching your own point because it's riddled with ignorance.

but Sivis already beat me to the punch.

 

that list you found is bunk. it's garbage. it's a farce. also you didn't really make any point regarding due process. you just sort of mentioned it before rambling into your fake list of fake red-flag words.

please try again.... :turn:


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#47

Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:27 PM Edited by Irviding, 01 October 2013 - 09:27 PM.


It's what the Employee puts on paper and a 'Judge' agrees to (without personal knowledge) on the Oath of that employee. Oath=word. Would you trust the word of someone with an agenda

 

So by those standards when a rape victim takes the oath to tell the truth before a court of law, she should not be trusted as she has an agenda to get justice for herself?


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#48

Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:39 AM Edited by lil weasel, 02 October 2013 - 12:41 AM.

I say you three seem to have  serious tunnel thinking, or is it organized trolling? Any opinion that doesn't agree must be stomped.  

I don't expect any real terrorist is going to use any word that has a hint of what's on that list.

And, I doubt you have ever gone for a search warrant. The pitiful comment about the 'rape victim', she doesn't take the warrant to the magistrate and we're not talking about a 'real' crime here.

This is about a bunch of Government Jokers doing an electronic search and then going for the predated warrant if they are caught.

Agents don't follow the 'rules' because the 'rules' get in the way of the job. It is only a fluke when they do get 'caught'.  Paper protects your rights just as much as any other paper in a file cabinet.

These pings are only an excuse to delve into areas that have been proscribed decades before.

The Authorities aren't interested in following the law/regulations/orders unless there is a possibility of being found out. Which if properly executed won't happen.

All in all, the Government should be using these resources for more useful ends. Like watching the Bankers/Insurance business. (and who's to say they aren't.)

Being pro-Government here isn't going to keep you out of the interview room when the time comes.

 

Being in Government is about two things, amassing power and making money.


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#49

Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:29 AM Edited by sivispacem, 02 October 2013 - 06:31 AM.

I say you three seem to have  serious tunnel thinking, or is it organized trolling? Any opinion that doesn't agree must be stomped.  

 

If you don't like the way I manage my subforum, then kindly f*ck off elsewhere- you won't be missed. This place is bad enough with you filling General Chat with hyperbolic hearsay, deluded bullsh*t and complete nonsense presented with your holier-than-thou, world-weariness that implies you actually have the vaguest clue what you're talking about when it becomes abundantly clear pretty much any time you post that in fact you don't. I've been extremely tolerant of your complete nonsense over the last few months but your blinding hypocrisy and complete ignorance are starting to grate.


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#50

Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:01 PM

To be honest your a bad terroist if you use email with out some thing like a fake IP address or some sort of code

sivispacem
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#51

Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:14 PM

You'd be amazed what kind of things people do with their email accounts. One of the old tricks was to share your password with another person, compose draft messages and then share them instead of sending them. Works great unless you forget to clear your deleted items and get your computer seized on an unrelated charge.

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#52

Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

You'd be amazed what kind of things people do with their email accounts. One of the old tricks was to share your password with another person, compose draft messages and then share them instead of sending them. Works great unless you forget to clear your deleted items and get your computer seized on an unrelated charge.

That's what David Petraeus and his mistress had been doing.. guess he picked up that technique when he was Director of the CIA.


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#53

Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:52 PM Edited by Vlynor, 10 November 2013 - 12:12 AM.

we've already sort of discussed this in the Debates forum.
 

but I don't know why anyone would be worried about the government reading your emai if you've got nothing to hide.
they'll never read your email anyway unless you show up as Red Flag in their system by emailing people who are known terrorists :lol:

 

I have everything to hide. What is in my email, text messages on my phone, etc. are my business and my business alone. If the government would like to procure a warrant to access the information, let them, but I do not like the idea of my private conversations/images/whatever else being looked at by those I did not intend to share it with.

 

However; if a business specifically reserves the right to share their information on me and anyone else with government officials regardless of a warrant, I have no problem with that information being shared since I agreed to it.


sivispacem
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#54

Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:00 AM

However; if a business specifically reserves the right to share their information on me and anyone else with government officials regardless of a warrant, I have no problem with that information being shared since I agreed to it.

 

 

That's your email provider, your ISP, and basically any other service provider who supplies this kind of information covered then.

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#55

Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:03 PM

I use encryption, so it doesn't affect me at all.

lol right, because the government can't get passed basic encryption. You probably think that if u talc lik dis they won't be able to decipher the message either.


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#56

Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:23 PM

Terrorists are everywhere, haven't you guys seen all the terrorists attacks in the U.S. since 9/11?? We need to stop these people and start a war against a mindset (a war with no true enemy are the only kind of war$ we like), so please read all my personal emails and messages, texts or even calls.. even store it all in a database just incase you get suspicious of me being a terrorists a few years down the line, just whatever it takes to make me feel secure again.. this is all for my well being afterall and nothing more.

 

As others have said, in this New Age we have no expectation of privacy.. as we shouldn't because terrorists are constantly trying to kill all of us (live in fear, it's the only way to live).. that's why we also spy on our allies, since you never know.. they may secretly be terrorists too. Oh and if you see something, say something. Terrorists are trying to kill you more now than ever. BE ALERT AT ALL TIMES, they could be anywhere, they could be anyone..


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#57

Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

I don't know why you think nations spying on each other, even when they're allies, is anything unusual. The German government only threw a wobbly for public effect; they're complicit in it too. It's been going on for decades. Just this week, we've seen announcements that the UK targeted Belgian telecommunications suppliers in North Africa, Russia targeted the Finnish government, Indian state-sponsored attackers targeted Sri Lanka and Singapore, Brazil spied on the G20 delegation... 


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#58

Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:06 PM

I honestly couldn't care less if everyone's doing it, I still see spying as wrong especially when conducted on your own citizens.

 

We need to get over 9/11, it happened a long time ago and the impact it's had on us is ridiculous.. really, warrantless house searches at gunpoint by the military and militarized police? No thanks..


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#59

Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:07 AM

That's your personal opinion- which is fair enough. Espionage is morally wrong in your view, and there's little that anyone will do to change that belief I would hazard.

 

Some of the rhetoric around the subject is pretty questionable, though. Unfortunately a lot of the detail is largely hidden by the public's unfortunate lack of understanding of how things like the internet backbone work. It also comes down to how one might categorise "spying". The capability to intercept traffic at a node point in the internet backbone or tap into undersea cables effectively makes the data transmitted by everyone using that resource vulnerable, but at what stage does that constitute actual espionage? Is the very act of tapping the cable espionage? Is the collection of the data the espionage, never mind that collating, processing and storing such a quantity of data would be extremely difficult, costly and actually inhibit analysis? Or is it only espionage if the data is used actively? I suppose the same goes for email collection. If, as many people have insinuated (probably incorrectly, might I add), the hardware is in place to permit the decoding and intercepting of TLS and SSL encrypted traffic through MITM attacks via the backbone to obtain the keys, this could be done silently and without any cost other than the hardware and it's associated running costs. You can buy SSL decryptors from a number of vendors for use in smaller networks. So why rely so heavily on abusing the ToC limitations of free and paid-for email and other data service providers when you've got the hardware to enable mass-scale on-the-fly decryption? Doesn't make any sense to me.


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#60

Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:44 PM

I'm not sure what you're getting at.. I'm curious though as to whether you approve or disapprove of government being able to sift through their own citizens personal emails and track their phone calls all without probable cause or a warrant?





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