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Im sorry atheists are not stupid

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EscoLehGo
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#61

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:37 AM

 

But what if we don't have sin? What if sin is an inherently flawed and unproven concept about human nature? No. The historical Christ died because the Jew's didn't like the chap.

 

I'm not really a Christian, I was conducting an exercise to give GM an idea of what his linear style posts on this subject look like to myself and others.


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#62

Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:07 AM



Just because YOU don't personally see it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Believing in a God is also logical, just because you believe in a higher existence it doesn't mean you're illogical. Does it now?

Atheism is also a sort of belief, since you "believe" that God doesn't exist.

 

Nobody sees it.

 

Saying something exists without any proof is illogical.

 

No, it isn't. "Believing" that Santa Claus does not exist is not belief now, is it? It's not a belief because there is no evidence of his existence. The same logic applies to god.

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BullworthAcademy.
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#63

Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

Like religious people, atheist can be pretty arrogant.


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#64

Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:44 PM

Like religious people, atheist can be pretty arrogant.


I think just about anyone can get arrogant about their own opinions at times, especially with subject matter like this. Everyone just wants to think they've got it figured out but the truth is not one of us knows more than any other, and the only way we'll truly find out is when we die ourselves.

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#65

Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

I think just about anyone can get arrogant about their own opinions at times, especially with subject matter like this. Everyone just wants to think they've got it figured out but the truth is not one of us knows more than any other, and the only way we'll truly find out is when we die ourselves.

I can't help but wonder how the world would react if they were offered conclusive proof of the nonexistence of an afterlife.

Part of me would like for humanity to create their own Heaven in which the consciousness of a man can exist past his death. I've heard a Russian oligarch is trying just such a thing and wants to put a human mind onto a computer.

 

It's a hard concept to grasp, isn't it? Part of me thinks that any absolute certainty one way or the other would kill a little bit of the wonderful imagination humans have exhibited over the ages. Death is a darkness and all we've ever tried to do is fill it up with light, whether that be Jesus or a child with an Elephant head riding atop a mouse.

 

Wouldn't it be rather dull if we ever found out all the answers to these intriguing little questions?

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gtaxpert
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#66

Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:06 PM

my view on religion is that if it has yet to be scientifically proven, it didn't happen.

So things that will be scientifically proven in the future didn't happen either?

 

 

I'm not sure people understand what empirical proof means.. 

Yeah, I don't think you understand. What is needed for empirical proof is an assumption of cause and effect, and an an assumption of constant conjunction of these obects that formed this cause and effect chain. David Hume figured that out.

 

According to your logic the law of gravity is not empirical, because tomorrow objects might start falling up. So according to your logic empirical is that which we see right now. That's an extremely narrow and awkward definition of empirical.

 

I understand how the word faith carries a lot of baggage and people avoid using it in fear of being associated with being a believer but in reality faith is used on a daily basis much more than many realize. Empirical science is actually extremely limiting and to assume it can tell us everything there is to know about the universe it insane.

It's true that people use faith on a daily basis. But these are all articles of faith that are useful and are also experienced by others. The religious articles of faith have no practical use whatsoever and differ in each individual. Considering the first test to check wether you are delusional is wether other people have the same experience, religion based on experience falls into delusion quite easily.

 

Now you might also go for religion based on reasoning in stead of experience, but I'm quite sure that'll fail even more significantly.


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#67

Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:30 PM Edited by Banana., 06 September 2013 - 04:32 PM.

I can't help but wonder how the world would react if they were offered conclusive proof of the nonexistence of an afterlife.
Part of me would like for humanity to create their own Heaven in which the consciousness of a man can exist past his death. I've heard a Russian oligarch is trying just such a thing and wants to put a human mind onto a computer.
 
It's a hard concept to grasp, isn't it? Part of me thinks that any absolute certainty one way or the other would kill a little bit of the wonderful imagination humans have exhibited over the ages. Death is a darkness and all we've ever tried to do is fill it up with light, whether that be Jesus or a child with an Elephant head riding atop a mouse.
 
Wouldn't it be rather dull if we ever found out all the answers to these intriguing little questions?


I feel like it would be sort of a double-edged sword. The fear of death and not knowing what comes after can be so crippling for some people while the mystery of it keeps others going. Like you said I think that fully knowing would kill the mystery of life and death and more than likely would shatter so many people who have devoted their lives and beings to their religion.

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#68

Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:33 PM Edited by elanman, 06 September 2013 - 04:37 PM.

I can't help but wonder how the world would react if they were offered conclusive proof of the nonexistence of an afterlife.

Part of me would like for humanity to create their own Heaven in which the consciousness of a man can exist past his death. I've heard a Russian oligarch is trying just such a thing and wants to put a human mind onto a computer.

 

It's a hard concept to grasp, isn't it? Part of me thinks that any absolute certainty one way or the other would kill a little bit of the wonderful imagination humans have exhibited over the ages. Death is a darkness and all we've ever tried to do is fill it up with light, whether that be Jesus or a child with an Elephant head riding atop a mouse.

 

Wouldn't it be rather dull if we ever found out all the answers to these intriguing little questions?

Perhaps the lack of an afterlife would act as an impetus for the religiously inclined to make the most out of life.

 

But I do suppose then that life would become pretty meaningless for fervent believers, given that they live simply to prepare for what they think is coming next.

 

 

GMS: Science, specifically neuroscience, actually does quite a good job of quantifying and understanding "love".

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GtaIvFanboy
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#69

Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:19 PM Edited by GtaIvFanboy, 06 September 2013 - 06:02 PM.

i Misread the TITLE! LMFAO im a proud Atheist :lol:  


lloydo
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#70

Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

Hitler and Stalin were atheists, need I say any more.


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#71

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

Hitler and Stalin were atheists, need I say any more.


So was Albert Einstein and almost every great thinker and inventer ever.

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#72

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

Hitler wasn't an Atheist. He held the Christian God with contempt, but repeatedly stated a belief in 'providence' guiding his actions.

On ocassion, this hazy belief manifested itself in appreciation of Roman Catholicism, Germanic Paganism and even Islam - but it is very likely that no one doctrine held sway over him.

 

After the war, he was planning to de-Christianise the Reich and replace established religion with the new German Faith Movement. A process already begun within the Hitler Youth, who were encouraged to remove crucifixes from classrooms due to Christ's Jewish blood.

 

But yes, Stalin was an Atheist through and through, but he relieved restrictions on the Orthodox Church during the war and did not persecute Georgian Orthodox beliefs too stringently out of respect for his Mother.

 

Either way, their religious views or lack thereof in no way contributed to their actions. Hitler was a pathological liar expected to act against the scapegoats he created and Stalin was a quasi-intellectual gangster with the morality of a pirate. With such men at the helm, blood was always going to be spilled.


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#73

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

So was Albert Einstein and almost every great thinker and inventer ever.

And Immanuel Kant was a christian. And so was Isaac Newton. But then again those aren't great thinkers right?


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#74

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

I really want to read Lightning Strike's titanic response, but I genuinely do not have the time. Could someone, preferably Lightning Strike himself, précis it for me?


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#75

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:24 PM

And Immanuel Kant was a christian. And so was Isaac Newton. But then again those aren't great thinkers right?

eh, they're ai'ight :pp


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#76

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:31 PM Edited by Carl CJ Johnsons Brother Brian, 07 September 2013 - 11:42 PM.

<snip>

The length of this post has to be some sort of record. Even if not, this is the by far longest post I have ever seen on this forum. It even puts sivi to shame, and that means something... :p

 

I will maybe bother to read a bit of it when I'm in the mood to do so, but Jesus, that's a whole f*cking book.


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#77

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:34 PM Edited by _____, 06 September 2013 - 08:35 PM.

Hitler and Stalin were atheists, need I say any more.

God and Satan are like the same guy. Need I say more?

 

Edit: I made a mistake. God is way worse.


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#78

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:43 PM Edited by El Zilcho, 06 September 2013 - 11:41 PM.

I've read a little (I emphasis little because it truly is just a scratch on the surface) of Lightning Strike's post, and I have to say while I enjoy greatly the verbosity, I also find your word choice pretentious to an extent. Some words there are so esoteric and so outrageous, it's almost like they've been used simply to flabbergast the casual reader; as if the length didn't do that enough!

 

Aside from the bamboozling effect of the length and lexical choices, I find there are a lot of strange and false points you're making.

 

At 20,000 or so words, it's a dissertation you've churned out for this topic. So I'll try and read a bit more and point out what I think are fallacious parts of your text. I'll edit them into this post.


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#79

Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:59 PM Edited by Bigs, 06 September 2013 - 08:59 PM.



So was Albert Einstein and almost every great thinker and inventer ever.

 

Einstein rejected the label atheist. Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."  http://books.google.com/books?id=cdxWNE7NY6QC&pg=PT390#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against traditional religion as the "opium of the masses"—cannot hear the music of the spheres.” - Einstein

 

Like him, I find several issues with almost every religion, but I can't let that smear the possibility (on some days I would say probability) of a higher power.

 

I feel that the grudge atheists hold towards the historically oppressive reign of the church isn't necessarily unwarranted, but something they need to make peace with.


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#80

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:09 PM

I feel that the grudge atheists hold towards the historically oppressive reign of the church isn't necessarily unwarranted, but something they need to make peace with.

 

Would you not find making that generalisation a little risky? Personally, my atheism stems from a mixture of things: the logical inconsistencies found in the majority of man made ideas of a God / Gods, the lack of evidence, the alternatives available for many previously 'Godly' phenomena, etc. I am open to changing this view if evidence were provided, or if a concept of a God that was fairly logical could be shown to me. The idea of an anthropomorphic, or even simply a benevolent, moral or amoral in the slightest, supreme being, does not chime with me as being one that stands to reason.

 

A disdain for organised religion is a separate matter, and my oppositional reaction to such institutions does not actually give me any reason to be an atheist - only cause to turn away from authoritative belief systems. To me, atheism is a personal reaction to what I mentioned early.


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#81

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

While I oppose many points of organized religion, I'd hate to see it die from the world. The world would a lot of it's color and diversity if religion was to die.

 

Personally, my religious beliefs lean towards the teachings of Buddhism, Paganism and Sufi Islam, while I reject the idea of a God and largely, the idea of an afterlife.


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#82

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:12 PM Edited by Typhus, 06 September 2013 - 09:14 PM.

I feel that the grudge atheists hold towards the historically oppressive reign of the church isn't necessarily unwarranted, but something they need to make peace with.

I feel that Atheists would have an easier time doing that if men were not expected to be servile to God.

Can anyone deny that life is full of hardships? And if life for a Westerner is difficult, Lord only knows how bad it is in Somalia or Darfur. If there is an omnipotent God, his inaction is a glob of spit in your face, he has spat at you and the Christian and the Muslim and the Jew expect you to shake his hand and kiss his arse.

 

Let us be frank with ourselves, if God is there and he stood by apathetically as babies starved and those we loved withered away to dust, then he owes each and every one of you an apology.

 

I would have less of an issue if God was simply not touted as being benevolent. If you want to tell me that your God is a ruthless, tyrannical maniac, I would respect that, in fact, I think I'd find it worthy of real admiration. But when you claim God loves us even as the world starves and burns, well, it's simply not true. Love cannot be apathetic.

 

Would it be so hard to acknowledge a flawed God? Perhaps if you did, you'd find it easier to forgive the flaws of your fellow man?

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#83

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:17 PM

 

Would you not find making that generalisation a little risky? 

 

 

Yes, of course I did not mean to imply all atheists feel that way, I meant to specifically address the more militant atheists. Many of the ones I know personally are very aggressive with their beliefs, as if they have a chip on their shoulder or something.

 

Perhaps I've just been fortunate to have never been judged nor expected to be servile by anyone because of my lack of faith.


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#84

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

And Immanuel Kant was a christian. And so was Isaac Newton. But then again those aren't great thinkers right?

 

Let me give you a massive benefit of the doubt. I will assume EVERY great scientist was a Christian/Theist - every single one of them.

Are you really going presumptuous enough to say that it means either;

a) Christian teaching/belief in God is what made them great scientists - like reading a 2,000 year old book or believing in something totally unrelated is going to increase their intelligence.

b) It verifies the teaching of Christianity/Theism. As if the the personal unproven beliefs of a person who is an expert in a completely unrelated field are automatically true - so much so, that according to your implication, people should unquestionably follow said beliefs.

 

People need to realise that the likes of Newton, Kant and Einistein were great, and Hitler was the polar opposite, because that is what they are as individuals. What caused them this greatness or infamy is whatmade them who they are - apotentially infinite number of factors. It is quite ridiculous how so many people continue to use such pointless arguements.

 

Also, none of the people you metioned happen to be religious philosophers or theologian, nor did any present any compelling theories using their seperate fields in sciencetoprove the existance of God. So why should anyone give a f*ck about their religion?

 

 

I really want to read Lightning Strike's titanic response, but I genuinely do not have the time. Could someone, preferably Lightning Strike himself, précis it for me?

 

I think those post were meant to be a joke - he copy and pasted other arguements and letters written regarding the subject, replacing some of the names and other details.

I think you have to at least just read the introduction and various other bits in the long text (like what I did) to realise just how funny what he did is.

 

TC

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El Zilcho
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#85

Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

 

I think those post were meant to be a joke - he copy and pasted other arguements and letters written regarding the subject, replacing some of the names and other details.

I think you have to at least just read the introduction and various other bits in the long text (like what I did) to realise just how funny what he did is.

 

TC

 

Yeah half way through this read and I've noticed :p

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MikeMyth
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#86

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:02 PM

Anyone remember that episode of The Boondocks where Uncle Ruckus was saying God doesn't like ni**ers because he's letting the children starve in Africa? This topic is more ridiculous than that...

Spoiler

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#87

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

Hitler and Stalin were atheists, need I say any more.

Hitler Was Catholic 


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#88

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:06 PM

Hitler Was Catholic 

Wrong.


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#89

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:11 PM

Wrong.

Indeed, Nazi mysticism was quite a varied and interesting theology, I find. 


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#90

Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:36 PM Edited by gtaxpert, 06 September 2013 - 10:37 PM.

To be honest, I couldn't give less of a sh*t whether Hitler was a Christian.

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