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Gay rights

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Otter
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#451

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:00 AM

No, sir, I'm suggesting sexual orientation is genetic in nature - (not necessarily a gene, but that's aside). You're suggesting "that means so is child molestation." You're the one making the odd leap here and then trying to loop it back around. We went over this yesterday when I had to tell you the same thing three time in a row.

You're saying if there's a blue eye gene, then there has to be a, say, astigmatism gene. You can see how silly that is, right? Pardon the pun?

Quartercan American
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#452

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:06 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:21)
QUOTE (Quartercan American @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:15)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:14)
You'd think a holy book that is supposed to be god's word would mention at least one female child instead of making it look like random people made up stories that had nothing to do with each other and then they put them together in one collection.

The Bible never said Cain and Abel were the only kids by adam and eve. Read it and youll figure out.....Instead of assuming things dozingoff.gif

Oh, well, I wouldn't want to assume things.


Are you f*ckin' kiddin' me with this Bible sh*t? How do you justify that level of ignorance in this day and age? You're using an ancient book to justify discrimination of a group of people based on their sexual preference. The same book that actually condones incest and slavery and forbids wearing clothes made out of different materials and eating shellfish.

Youre not smart. In the bible, The word "Slave" meant servant, People to do your house work, clean and serve you, Not whipping and giving them new names... dozingoff.gif dozingoff.gif Atheists.......

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#453

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:08 AM

@ GrandMaster Smith and Otter:
Sexuality is a very complex thing, and believe it or not, there are loads of experts who devote a great deal of time and effort researching it.
From what I have read from various Psychiatry and other medical published papers, sexuality is a complex, multifactorial and dynamic aspect of human behaviour. You cannot narrow it down specifically in simplified categories (though I understand the practical and pragmatic need to do so).

As to regards of upbrining vs. genetics - it is infact a bit of both. Though to complicate matters further, it is not a matter of straightforward direct inputs either of these have - rather complex interactions (as is true of most traits in psychiatry, as well as medicine as a whole). And the exact nature of these indirect, interacting factors is not yet fully understood.

Basically, certain life events or inherited genes may not automatically make you, for example, a paedophile. Rather they may predispose you to being affected in a certain way to certain adverse life events or other genes. These in turn may have another indirect effect on other factors, which in the long run may ormay not make you a paedophile.

Regarding the ethical dimensions associated with this - I think that it is safe to say no one really has a conscience choice over their sexuality, and thus it is unethical to discriminate against anyone.
In fact, I think this extends to "sexual deviancy". I do not believe people with zoophilia, necrophilia and even paedophilia are inherently evil - rather the implementation and/or staisfaction of their sexual desires is harmful to themselves, others, and society as a whole.

TC


GrandMaster Smith
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#454

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:09 AM Edited by GrandMaster Smith, 05 September 2013 - 02:14 AM.

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:00)
No, sir, I'm suggesting sexual orientation is genetic in nature - (not necessarily a gene, but that's aside). You're suggesting "that means so is child molestation." You're the one making the odd leap here and then trying to loop it back around. We went over this yesterday when I had to tell you the same thing three time in a row.

You're saying if there's a blue eye gene, then there has to be a, say, astigmatism gene. You can see how silly that is, right? Pardon the pun?

How do you claim sexual orientation is genetic but not necessarily a gene? What makes you believe sexuality is set in stone?


Astigmatism is a refractive error in the eye, it's when the eye stops properly functioning. Are you saying homosexuality is when human sexual orientation starts to malfunction?






\/\/\/\/


QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:09)
Quartercan, you need to go do some research, fella. That may be what Rick the Feelgood Pastor says to keep to from waking up in horror in the middle night, but it doesn't make it true. Do keep in mind that there have been many translations of that ridiculous book, and by some very smart, learned people. They will likely all disagree with you on this.

You really don't know much about our history, do you?

People back then would sell themselves as 'slaves', aka servants to pay off debts. Many would even spend their whole lives being servants as who they were serving would provide a house and food for them.

Otter
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#455

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:09 AM

Quartercan, you need to go do some research, fella. That may be what Rick the Feelgood Pastor says to keep to from waking up in horror in the middle night, but it doesn't make it true. Do keep in mind that there have been many translations of that ridiculous book, and by some very smart, learned people. They will likely all disagree with you on this.

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#456

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:10 AM Edited by blitz, 05 September 2013 - 02:18 AM.

QUOTE (the7ftmidget)
Admit it tho. Homosexuality is a birth defect, plain and simple. And to me this particular birth defect is as normal as a baby being born with autism or a third foot growing out its head. The human genepool does not need more of these defect carriers. Thats another thing i havent brought up about gays that is just insulting to the human race: gay people who get pregnant or get a girl pregnant just to have a baby they can share with their partner. Disgraceful.

What. The. F u ck.

Homosexuality is not a birth defect. It is not a problem. It is simply an orientation. Because of bigots like you who fail to see the logic in the matter, issues such as bullying based on gender occur, like previously stated by yourself. Gay people are not genetic f*ck ups. They are people just like you and me.

QUOTE
f*ck your "god". Im a perfectly secure man, im a prime example of genetic greatnes and proud of it. Thats why im so defensive about it, there arwnt enough genetically correct and strong people in the world.


No. Sounds like you're an insecure pathetic little man, fooling yourself into believing gay people are abnormal and alien in order to give yourself a dose of superiority.

QUOTE
Im done with this thread, you people are rediculous.

Congratulations, you're an idiot.

QUOTE (CallTheCoroner)
QUOTE (the7ftmidget @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 13:31)
And its sad to see a world that is so accepting of these genetic f*ck-ups as being normal.

And you are normal? I'd rather have a world full of gay people than have a world full of assholes like you.

I concur.

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#457

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:15 AM

It appears your last quote is missing an "=" which is f*cking the whole thing up.

Otter
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#458

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:15 AM

Grandmaster, allow me to make an observation here, without running away with it and using it somehow "refute" it. Please, tell me your favorite color. Then explain to me why it your favorite color. Now try explaining to my why that's a choice, and not something that just "is" about you?

There may be no "gay" gene but you know as well as I do that we living beings are more emergent than a series of flipped switches on the microcosmic scale.

This is entirely separate from your position that somehow equates child molestors to homosexuals, by the way, and I think you know that. You also know that in my allegory about an astigmatism, I was relating it to child molestation. Many an astigmatism are thought to be the result of aggressive forceps usage in birth.

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#459

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:18 AM

QUOTE (TEoS @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:15)
It appears your last quote is missing an "=" which is f*cking the whole thing up.

You were right, thank you kind sir. smile.gif

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#460

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:23 AM

QUOTE (Quartercan American @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:06)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:21)
QUOTE (Quartercan American @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:15)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:14)
You'd think a holy book that is supposed to be god's word would mention at least one female child instead of making it look like random people made up stories that had nothing to do with each other and then they put them together in one collection.

The Bible never said Cain and Abel were the only kids by adam and eve. Read it and youll figure out.....Instead of assuming things dozingoff.gif

Oh, well, I wouldn't want to assume things.


Are you f*ckin' kiddin' me with this Bible sh*t? How do you justify that level of ignorance in this day and age? You're using an ancient book to justify discrimination of a group of people based on their sexual preference. The same book that actually condones incest and slavery and forbids wearing clothes made out of different materials and eating shellfish.

Youre not smart. In the bible, The word "Slave" meant servant, People to do your house work, clean and serve you, Not whipping and giving them new names... dozingoff.gif dozingoff.gif Atheists.......

If you read the earliest Greek and Aramaic versions, I assure you the word used was referring to the type you own, whip and sell.
Old near eastern cultures didn't really have the obligatory slave name-changing to make it in line with their master's surname (thus the "Mamluks" of Ottoman times).

Also, I think there are some nice graphic descriptions in the Old Testament on how to deal with enslaving and genocide. A nice story of committing a genocide against a people, then enslaving what remains can be found in the story of Gideon and the Midianites (Book of Judges).


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#461

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:25 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:15)
Grandmaster, allow me to make an observation here, without running away with it and using it somehow "refute" it. Please, tell me your favorite color. Then explain to me why it your favorite color. Now try explaining to my why that's a choice, and not something that just "is" about you?

There may be no "gay" gene but you know as well as I do that we living beings are more emergent than a series of flipped switches on the microcosmic scale.

This is entirely separate from your position that somehow equates child molestors to homosexuals, by the way, and I think you know that. You also know that in my allegory about an astigmatism, I was relating it to child molestation. Many an astigmatism are thought to be the result of aggressive forceps usage in birth.

Are you saying humans have no free will or choice in their favorite color? I personally find it very simplistic to say there's only one favorite color to each human being, I like a lot of colors, I've liked a lot of different colors throughout my life. As a child I would change my favorite color on a near weekly basis.

There is no gene that forced to me like a certain color, theres never been a set in stone color for me that I've always identified with.

Human beings are born completely blank slates. If I were to have lived through all your own personal life experiences I essentially would be you. Who we are and what we become is the product of our upbringing and free will.

Otter
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#462

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE (GrandMaster Smith @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:25)
Human beings are born completely blank slates. If I were to have lived through all your own personal life experiences I essentially would be you. Who we are and what we become is the product of our upbringing and free will.

Oh. That's a tragically romantic outlook.

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#463

Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:54 AM

Gay by birth or choice or both or whatever - that has nothing to do with rights. We have two consenting adults. I don't even know how anyone can equate a child, a dog, a corpse, or a trumpet to a consenting adult.

And this "sanctity of marriage" crap, according to what? New Testament teachings? I don't see divorcees getting as much flak because what they do tarnishes the "sanctity of marriage."

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#464

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:01 AM

What about hay rights though? No not hay rides, I'm talking hay rights. Dried straw. It gets crammed into bales, moved around by sharp hooks, fed to goats, horses sh*t on it. People even stick needles in large stacks of them just for fun, and then try, and inevitably fail, to retrieve it. This leaves the hay under prolonged suffering with the unremoved needle constantly poking and stabbing it. We're talking severe abuse on an industrial, well actually I suppose it's agricultural. We're talking about abuse on an agricultural scale here.

I mean where's the haymanity?

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#465

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:04 AM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:50)
Homophobia is a lot closer to arachnophobia than segregation is to civil unions.

And homophobia is a fear, not a choice. It can't be reversed by a simply choice any better than homosexuality. Homosexuality in itself is more irrational than homophobia.

And because there will be a few straglers that aren't happy no matter what, you should make no effort to not offend those that would support your cause if you pursued it in a manner that didn't offend them?

lol.
you're not very good at forming a coherent argument.

this thread is about gay rights.
this thread is a non sequitur because there's no such thing as gay rights.

gay people are people which means that there's only human rights.
they deserve the exact same treatment, opportunities, and legal protections as anyone else. period.

there's nothing else to say.

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#466

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:01)
What about hay rights though? No not hay rides, I'm talking hay rights. Dried straw. It gets crammed into bales, moved around by sharp hooks, fed to goats, horses sh*t on it. People even stick needles in large stacks of them just for fun, and then try, and inevitably fail, to retrieve it. This leaves the hay under prolonged suffering with the unremoved needle constantly poking and stabbing it. We're talking severe abuse on an industrial, well actually I suppose it's agricultural. We're talking about abuse on an agricultural scale here.

I mean where's the haymanity?

I pride myself on my exactitude. As you'll see from this letter, I provide copious detail and try to be as precise as possible when describing the ways in which the Hay Rights movement thumbs its nose at some of the very things I treasure. It is worth noting at the outset that the Hay Rights movement's put-downs are a mere cavil, a mere scarecrow, one of the last shifts of a desperate and dying cause. What is the milieu in which virulent, anal-retentive chuckleheads gag free speech? It is the underworld of conspiracy theory, a subculture in which subversive finks share fantasies of fighting heroically against a huge conspiracy that will undermine the current world order any day now.

While the Hay Rights movement has a right to its opinion, those of us who are still sane, those of us who still have a firm grip on reality, those of us who still warrant that from my seemingly daily argy-bargy with its sniffish, parasitic hangers-on about whether we're supposed to shut up and smile when it says worthless, cranky things, I've come to the conclusion that the Hay Rights movement is an ostentatious sod trying to get attention for itself by being more audacious than the next ostentatious sod, have an obligation to do more than just observe what the Hay Rights movement is doing from a safe distance. We have an obligation to declare a truce with the Hay Rights movement and commence a dialogue. We have an obligation to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. And we have an obligation to get it to damp down the bellicosity of its musings. As I understand it, the Hay Rights movement's conclusions represent an inseparable mixture of reason and human madness, but always in such a way that only the madness can become reality and never the reason. In this case, one cannot help but recall that it is totally mistaken if it believes that there's no difference between normal people like you and me and reprehensible, shrewish flakes. While I am not attempting to argue openly in favor of any particular position, I like to say that the Hay Rights movement's machinations are not just about terrorism but also about revanchism. It never directly acknowledges such truisms but instead tries to turn them around to make it sound like I'm saying that it commands an army of robots that live in the hollow center of the earth and produce earthquakes whenever they feel like shaking things up a bit on the surface. I guess that version better fits its style—or should I say, "agenda"?

Believe it or not, the Hay Rights movement has come extremely close to glorifying disruptive, suppressive, murderous governments as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. True story. Anyhow, for many people, the Hay Rights movement's biggety, undiplomatic activities have caused substantial pain and suffering, mental anguish, emotional distress, post-traumatic stress, sleeplessness, indignities and embarrassment, degradation, injury to reputation, and restrictions on personal freedom. Whew! The only thing they haven't yet caused, surprisingly, is a greater realization that if the Hay Rights movement had its way, schools would teach students that character development is not a matter of "strength through adversity" but rather, "entitlement through victimization". This is not education but indoctrination. It prevents students from learning about how the Hay Rights movement has convinced a lot of people that truth is whatever your grievance group says it is. One must pause in admiration at this triumph of media manipulation.

The Hay Rights movement frequently sprinkles its speech with the guttural argot of haughty yutzes, but I won't linger on that. The Hay Rights movement has been telling people that it knows 100% of everything 100% of the time. This story has been uncritically swallowed and regurgitated by many half-informed, bitter hell-raisers who find pleasure in believing it. No, I can't explain it either. However, I can say that we can divide the Hay Rights movement's criticisms into three categories: malicious, insensitive, and semi-intelligible. Society must soon decide either to acquire the input of a representative cross-section of the community in a non-threatening, inclusive environment or else to let the Hay Rights movement bamboozle people into believing that everyone who fails to think and act in strict accordance with its requirements is a brutish, oleaginous spalpeen. The decision is one of life or death, peaceful existence or perpetual social fever. I can hope only that those in charge realize that the Hay Rights movement presents itself as a disinterested classicist lamenting the infusion of politically motivated methods of pedagogy and analysis into higher education. It is eloquent in its denunciation of modern scholarship, claiming it favors horny pests. And here we have the ultimate irony because it is becoming ever more audacious in its unappeasable hatred of us. An equal but opposite observation is that I challenge it to point out any text in this letter that proposes that all it takes to start a rabbit farm is a magician's magic hat. It isn't there. There's neither a hint nor a suggestion of such a thing.

The Hay Rights movement's reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, it always begins an argument with its conclusion (e.g., that truth is merely a social construct) and therefore—not surprisingly—it always arrives at that very conclusion. To close, let me accentuate that if we reinvigorate our collective commitment to building and maintaining a sensitive, tolerant, and humane community we shall not only survive the Hay Rights movement's attacks; we shall prevail.

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#467

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:10 AM

I don't care what they do, they have the right to do what they want to each other. If I can kiss my girlfriend in public, Why cant they? I don't care if two males are kissing. It's not like I'm going to sit there and stare at them, with that being said I believe they should be able to marry, if Mr.Hick in Georgia can knock up a 16 year old girl and be legally allowed to marry her, why can't two males or females that actually care about each other and support each other with unconditional love be married? "Sacred" Marriage is gone.

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#468

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:14 AM

QUOTE (Erebos @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 19:10)
I don't care what they do, they have the right to do what they want to each other. If I can kiss my girlfriend in public, Why cant they? I don't care if two males are kissing. It's not like I'm going to sit there and stare at them. I believe they should be able to marry, if Mr.Hick in Georgia can knock up a 16 year old girl and be legally allowed to marry her, why can't two males or females that actually care each other and support each other with unconditional love be married? "Sacred" Marriage is gone.

Because if it were about actual love between two people they couldn't care less whether it'd be called marriage or a civil union.

It's all about tax breaks and all that fun stuff, quite pathetic how marriage is being turned inside out to be revolved around money and legalities rather than harboring love itself to bring new life into this world..

Otter
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#469

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:18 AM

QUOTE (GrandMaster Smith @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 19:14)
harboring love itself to bring new life into this world..

Hahaha, you mean, for a brief period in the 80s?

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#470

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:20 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 19:18)
QUOTE (GrandMaster Smith @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 19:14)
harboring love itself to bring new life into this world..

Hahaha, you mean, for a brief period in the 80s?

What? Why do you keep posting..? most of your posts are just failures of you trying to be funny and add little to nothing at all to the actual conversation..



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#471

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:23 AM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Thursday, Sep 5 2013, 03:04)
they deserve the exact same treatment, opportunities, and legal protections as anyone else. period.

And that's what they receive from the government, but it's not good enough.

It's not the governments fault that a man wants to marry another man to get his tax breaks. Those men have just as much right as anyone else to marry someone of the opposite sex, or even have a civil union between the two of them and in many cases share the exact same benefits as marriage.

But that's not what this is about. So what exactly is it about?

Otter
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#472

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:25 AM

holy sh*t dude can you go around in a circle a few more times?

They DONT have legal civil unions in all states (and hotly contested in those they DO!) and they DONT afford all of the same rights! How hard is it for you to process this?

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#473

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:28 AM

So if same sex civil unions are not legal in all states, why even discuss marriage? Give an inch, take a mile? It's human nature I suppose, but still.

We're running in circles rather than a straight line because you keep dodging side to side to avoid points.

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#474

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:29 AM

Otter I just have to ask out of curiousity, are you yourself gay? I suppose it would explain a lot of your heated posts in here and why you get so easily offended if you are.

As a gay man, have you experienced oppression yourself, and if so in what ways?
Do you have a boyfriend whom you wish to marry but are refused a marriage certificate?
In what ways do you feel your rights are denied as a gay man?


I suppose the same questions could be asked towards El_Diablo since I always see him being very passionate about homosexuality and his keen knowledge of how gay people are mistreated as well.

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#475

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:29 AM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:23)
that's what they receive from the government

no it's not.

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:25)
They DONT have legal civil unions in all states (and hotly contested in those they DO!) and they DONT afford all of the same rights!  How hard is it for you to process this?


Shifty41s_beerhatsmilie2.gif

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#476

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:35 AM

Thanks for that insightful post. Obviously I missed what you quoted there.

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#477

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:38 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 05 September 2013 - 03:42 AM.

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:35)
Obviously I missed what you quoted there.

yes.
your ignorance is obvious.

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#478

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:40 AM

Ignorance? No, I simply didn't see it as I have poor vision. I thought that was obvious. That's why you quoted it, right?

Or are you going to judge me for having poor vision? Does that make me a racist and/or sexist?

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#479

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:43 AM

I mean really.
what do you think all this stuff is for?

user posted image

user posted image

you think these people are standing around for sh*ts and giggles?
you think they're just getting together to show appreciation to the government because they're happy with their rights under the law?

you have to be some kind of stupid.

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#480

Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:45 AM

I'm sh*tting myself reading you ignorant twats trying to come off like the intelligent, rightfully offended parties here.

No, Grandmaster, I'm not gay, but my hips don't lie and the boys tell I'm pretty queer for a straight guy. Does that help you understand anything? Probably not. Understanding things isn't your strong suit.

And as far as revelations go, I just remembered that Burbalage is "liekohemgeez" and everything makes a lot more sense now.




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