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Gay rights

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Burbalade
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#421

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:24 PM Edited by Burbalade, 04 September 2013 - 11:27 PM.

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:17)
The government should, actually, drop ALL reference to the word marriage and just go with "civil union". We'd all be better off.

Now this I can agree with entirely. It leaves no room for anyone to be reasonably offended based on their personal beliefs.

QUOTE
but being picked on for something you didn't choose always leaves a mark

Since when are people picked on for something that's chosen or can be easily changed? That would defeat the point of bullying.

Being bullied over something you can't change is not exclusive to homosexuals. Heterosexuals have been dealing with it since the beginning of civilization and most have turned out just fine.

QUOTE
gay couples don't enjoy the same civil protections (on a national basis) as straight couples.
this needs to change.

Then look to change that in a way that doesn't offend others in the same way that you're currently offended. Fight for equal benefits rather than changing a definition of a word. You'd be amazed by the number of people that would show more support if you went about this in a more respectful manner.

El Diablo
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#422

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:24)
Then look to change that in a way that doesn't offend others

that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
who is offended by gay marriage other than homophobes?

QUOTE
Fight for equal benefits rather than changing a definition of a word.

what do you think gay people are doing??
they're fighting for equal benefits through marriage. they're not changing the word.

marriage is the socially and legally recognized union between 2 people who love each other with all of the social and legal benefits that apply in any state in the Union.
currently this does not apply to gay people across the country.

that's what we're working to change. it has nothing to do with the definition or straight people.
when you bring up this Straw Man bullsh*t about "change that in a way that doesn't offend others," you're just showing that you don't really understand what is going on here.

Burbalade
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#423

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:40 PM Edited by Burbalade, 04 September 2013 - 11:42 PM.

QUOTE
that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
who is offended by gay marriage other than homophobes?

Homophobes opinions should be valued just much as yours. What gives you any more right to change the laws than them? There are plenty of Christians that are offended by what you're fighting for, that wouldn't be if you abandoned the fight over a word. The fact that you don't give two sh*ts how they feel is why your opinion, and your fight, is worthless.

Your problem is that you divide the world by their complex opinion on this matter. But rather than fighting to make everyone happy, you care only for one group.

Rather than fighting for something that everyone can agree on, you fight for something to rub in the faces of those you don't agree with.

THAT is why you will fail.

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#424

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 14:40)
QUOTE
that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
who is offended by gay marriage other than homophobes?

Homophobes opinions should be valued just much as yours. What gives you any more right to change the laws than them? There are plenty of Christians that are offended by what you're fighting for, that wouldn't be if you abandoned the fight over a word. The fact that you don't give two sh*ts how they feel is why your opinion, and your fight, is worthless.

Why do they even care though?

Burbalade
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#425

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE (TEoS @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:41)
Why do they even care though?

The same could be asked of anyone that cares one way or another, because in the end it doesn't matter. The right answer would be because they're given the right to care, just as everyone else. That's equality. But it's bypassing the point that many homophobes support gay marriage. If you think otherwise, you're misusing the word.

Shenmue18
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#426

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:45 PM

Homophobes and Christians need to get their damn noses out of sh*t that's none of their business then. Explain exactly how gay marriage effects ANYTHING in the life of a Homophobe or a Christian?

Sorry Burbalade, but you're losing this argument badly.

Burbalade
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#427

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Shenmue18 @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:45)
Homophobes and Christians need to get their damn noses out of sh*t that's none of their business then. Explain exactly how gay marriage effects ANYTHING in the life of a Homophobe or a Christian?

How does the word used by the government to describe the relationship affect the lives of homosexuals? (assuming equal benefits, which is what you should really be fighting for, as it would go a lot further a lot faster.)

It doesn't. Other than bragging about getting married. It rolls off the tongue easier than civil union.

It still doesn't change the fact that you're just looking to flip flop which group is offended.

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#428

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:59 PM

QUOTE (_____ @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 21:43)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 23:41)
QUOTE (Kirsty @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 20:11)
I love boobs much as any guy

That must be so awesome. To like boobs and to have them. Gays probably don't have it as good as lesbians. They can't give themselves a blowjob, but you can grope yourself all you want. That's a huge plus.

You reminded me of something I've always wondered about. Are lesbians\female bisexuals attracted to their own body?

I'd imagine people aren't attracted to their own bodies in the same way people aren't normally attracted to their own mothers or children.

Shenmue18
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#429

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:00 AM

Because if being married to one another is what will make them happy, then what's the big f*cking deal? Let them marry if they want to, that's their prerogative just like straight people. They should get all the collection of rights that straight people get when they get married.

El Diablo
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#430

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:06 AM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:40)
Homophobes opinions should be valued just much as yours.

no they shouldn't.

a homophobe is a bigot and a sexist.
it's like asking a racist if black people should be allowed to vote; their opinion doesn't count.

QUOTE
rather than fighting to make everyone happy, you care only for one group.

you're an idiot.

how am I fighting for only one group?
I'm not treading on the rights of straight people.

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#431

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 16:06)

I'm not treading on the rights of straight people.

But...but...but... you're treading on their right to oppress others!!!

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#432

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:21 AM

Like I said, some opinions are stupid and don't deserve respect. Homophobic/racist opinions are an example.

Burbalade
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#433

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE
Because if being married to one another is what will make them happy

If you think the word used by the government to describe your relationship is what makes you happy, then you don't understand relationships and aren't going to be happy either way.

QUOTE
They should get all the collection of rights that straight people get when they get married.

Agreed. That's what really matters and you'd be far better off fighting for that in itself.

QUOTE
a homophobe is a bigot and a sexist.

And I take it an arachnophobe hates nature and their opinions should be ignored too? You don't even know what you're labeling but you sure are quick to judge and treat them differently. Little bit of hypocrisy never hurt anyone though, right?

QUOTE
it's like asking a racist if black people should be allowed to vote; their opinion doesn't count.

You again, don't even know who it is that you're labeling. Why should a Hispanic person that hates Asians not be allowed to vote on whether or not black people should be allowed to vote?

QUOTE
how am I fighting for only one group?

Because you're offended by current laws, and are fighting for laws that would offend other even though you'd get to true equality faster by fighting for something that everyone agrees on.

El Diablo
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#434

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

QUOTE (Burbalade @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:25)
And I take it an arachnophobe hates nature and their opinions should be ignored too?

no of course not.

because arachnophobia is perfectly normal. it's based on actual consequences in the real world.
people are afraid of spiders because evolution taught us to be afraid of things that can kill us.

arachnophobia is MUCH more rational than homophobia.
they're basically 2 completely different things.

homophobia is irrational and based on false beliefs in the imaginary world, not real consequences.

QUOTE
Because you're offended by current laws, and are fighting for laws that would offend other even though you'd get to true equality faster by fighting for something that everyone agrees on.

you will never get "everyone" to "agree on" anything.

people who don't agree that gays should be allowed to get married are just wrong.
they're wrong and they're going to be on the wrong side of history.

it's only a matter of time before marriage is universal.

Otter
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#435

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:43 AM

Lets not forget a few things, relevant or not.

- Arachnaphobia is completely irrational and one should strive to rise above it.
- the "government" doesn't get to define marriage, only how the benefits are applied - at our behest
- Gay marriage has been around as long as the civilized world
- hating any group of people irrationally makes you a pretty scummy person
- macaroni and cheese is way better if you add a handful of Kraft TexMex™ shredded cheese to it.

El Diablo
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#436

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 18:43)
- macaroni and cheese is way better if you add a handful of Kraft TexMex™ shredded cheese to it.

AW SH*T YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT!

TAKE IT BACK OR WE'RE GONNA' FIGHT mad.gif

Burbalade
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#437

Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Thursday, Sep 5 2013, 00:32)
blah blah blah

I'm a moron

Homophobia is a lot closer to arachnophobia than segregation is to civil unions.

And homophobia is a fear, not a choice. It can't be reversed by a simply choice any better than homosexuality. Homosexuality in itself is more irrational than homophobia.

And because there will be a few straglers that aren't happy no matter what, you should make no effort to not offend those that would support your cause if you pursued it in a manner that didn't offend them?

QUOTE
- macaroni and cheese is way better if you add a handful of Kraft TexMex™ shredded cheese to it.

Macaroni and cheese is sh*t either way.

Otter
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#438

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:05 AM

Now you're being extremely pedantic, intentionally myopic. You know that homophobia is a lot more than that.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Homophobia

Read up before you come back. And don't say another god-damned thing about macaroni and cheese, or I will devote my existence on this forum to becoming a moderator and banning you.

Shenmue18
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#439

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:05 AM Edited by Shenmue18, 05 September 2013 - 01:11 AM.

Homophobia, most of the time, is only caused by parents or relatives constantly telling you that being gay is wrong, or that being different then what's normal is wrong. You'll never be inherently Homophobic, you will however be taught to be homophobic if homosexuality is deemed immoral by your parents at a very young age. Why do you think it just so happens that people who's parents hate homosexuality usually will start to hate it too, yet someone born with smart and reasonable parents very seldom hate gay people, because they were never told that it was sinful.

Homosexuality is something that you're born with.

Thus, Homophobia is irrational and being gay is like race or gender, it's something you're born with and can't change.

GrandMaster Smith
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#440

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (Shenmue18 @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:05)
Homophobia, most of the time, is only caused by parents or relatives constantly telling you that being gay is wrong, or that being different then what's normal is wrong. You'll never be inherently Homophobic, you will however be taught to be homophobic if homosexuality is deemed immoral by your parents at a very young age.

Homosexuality is something that you're born with.

Thus, Homophobia is irrational and being gay is like race or gender, you can't change it, you're born with it and it's not weird just because there are less people like you out there.

So tell me, are people also born child molesters, necrophiliacs and beastialitors? Is sexuality as a whole determined solely by genetics?

Otter
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#441

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:19 AM

Oh god, not Grandmaster-I-wanna-dig-up-my-grans-corpse-and-f*ck-it-Smith again. Just when the conversation was getting interesting again.

Shenmue18
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#442

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:20 AM

...Huh? There's a big difference between having things that turn you on and being attracted to a gender. That's why so many child molesters and necrophiliacs have wives and children with those wives. Because they were attracted to adult women/men and children/dead corpses/animals. Usually if you look at child molesters, necrophiliacs and beastialitors, they've had some major trauma caused to them in their past, much like how John Wayne Gacy was beaten by his dad and raped by a friend of his dad as a young boy.

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#443

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE (Shenmue18 @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:20)
...Huh? There's a big difference between having things that turn you on and being attracted to a gender. That's why so many child molesters and necrophiliacs have wives and children with those wives. Because they were attracted to adult women/men and children/dead corpses/animals. Usually if you look at child molesters, necrophiliacs and beastialitors, they've had some major trauma caused to them in their past, much like how John Wayne Gacy was beaten by his dad and raped by a friend of his dad as a young boy.

Wait so are you saying child molesters are a product of their upbringing, and not genetically predisposed to be who they are?

Burbalade
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#444

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:25 AM

QUOTE
There's a big difference between having things that turn you on and being attracted to a gender.


You're attracted to what turns you on. It's all sexuality. You can't say "Well what I agree with is genetic, but what I don't agree with is caused by trauma, is wrong, and deserves death."

Otter
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#445

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:25 AM

Many child molestors, like most chicks who are into anal sex, were molested themselves, yes, this is a commonly known thing, Grandmaster Necro.

And Burbalade, every time I think there's a glimmer of hope from you, you turn around and say something so god-damned stupid like that.

GrandMaster Smith
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#446

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:29 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:25)
Many child molestors, like most chicks who are into anal sex, were molested themselves, yes, this is a commonly known thing, Grandmaster Necro.

And Burbalade, every time I think there's a glimmer of hope from you, you turn around and say something so god-damned stupid like that.

So sexuality is influenced by upbringing, and is not genetically predisposed.


So how are you so positive gay people are not a product of the way they were brought up and rather instead argue that they're just born that way? Are you gay yourself?

Otter
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#447

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:32 AM

You're the moron here who's suggesting that "sexuality" encompasses all orientations and fetishes and the abuse of other human beings. I think you've got to prove that before I even touch your retarded arguments with a ten inch (my diiiiiick) pole.

Seriously, stop having sex with dead people. It's rotting your brain.

GrandMaster Smith
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#448

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:38 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:32)
You're the moron here who's suggesting that "sexuality" encompasses all orientations and fetishes and the abuse of other human beings. I think you've got to prove that before I even touch your retarded arguments with a ten inch (my diiiiiick) pole.

Seriously, stop having sex with dead people. It's rotting your brain.

I'm the moron? Your posts repeatedly showcase your immaturity and that you have zero interest in actually engaging in any real conversation.

Your only tactics are to call those who disagree with you names or purposely distort what people are saying so you don't have to address their questions.

Please, if you have any interest in anything other than shoving your ideologies down people's throats that have shown zero logical backings then just gtfo.

Otter
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#449

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:45 AM

Your posts repeatedly showcase your inability to string two logical thoughts together - that, sir, is why you're a moron. You're ignoring the fact that I - and pretty much all the rest of us! - have trounced your crappy arguments, illogical conclusions, and hare-brained concepts (seriously! Enough with the f*cking necrophilia!) since your very first post on these forums. But you refuse to acknowledge this - and now, look at that. Instead of arguing back, you play the victim.

Here, let me censor the offending bits so you can try and read past them, you poor, poor thing.

QUOTE
You're the moron here who's suggesting that "sexuality" encompasses all orientations and fetishes and the abuse of other human beings. I think you've got to prove that before I even touch your retarded arguments with a ten inch (my diiiiiick) pole.

GrandMaster Smith
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#450

Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:49 AM

QUOTE (Otter @ Wednesday, Sep 4 2013, 17:45)
Your posts repeatedly showcase your inability to string two logical thoughts together - that, sir, is why you're a moron. You're ignoring the fact that I - and pretty much all the rest of us! - have trounced your crappy arguments, illogical conclusions, and hare-brained concepts (seriously! Enough with the f*cking necrophilia!) since your very first post on these forums. But you refuse to acknowledge this - and now, look at that. Instead of arguing back, you play the victim.

Here, let me censor the offending bits so you can try and read past them, you poor, poor thing.

QUOTE
You're the moron here who's suggesting that "sexuality" encompasses all orientations and fetishes and the abuse of other human beings. I think you've got to prove that before I even touch your retarded arguments with a ten inch (my diiiiiick) pole.

Umm, you're the one who's suggesting sexuality is genetically predisposed at all..

I mean if there's a gay gene, then surely there's also a child molester gene, right? And if not explain why you believe there's only a gene for the homosexual sexual orientation and not others.




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