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TBOGT's Vibe Ruined the Series

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GtaIvFanboy
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#31

Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:42 AM

i liked the Glitzy club scene it Showed Another Side To LC which i liked as far as the missions go well its quite clear R* were just trying to please the San Andreas Fans Who thought the mission Structure In IV  Was to Repetitive like it or not Tbogt Is Generally more   Popular than the Tlad (and its for that reason IMO) I Still Personally think IV And The lost and Dammed are Both Better.

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foxararma
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#32

Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

Well, Rockstar did take a massive swing with TBoGT. It went against the usual grain in most violent games and added a more...partyish type vibe. The game felt like it added the elements in a serious game which softened the mood. It wasn't entirely a kill-joy nor did it go over the top in fancy design or plot.

 

What fans didn't expect was a more...brighter side to such a dark city. It slapped people in the face in a good way. Some describe it as a subliminal attempt at bringing back the ridiculous gameplay that San Andreas offered.


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#33

Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

W/o considering storyline (that for me was very well done) and missions, TBOGT offered everything that GTAIV should of had in the first place, if you think of it (this also applies to tlad to some extent) tbogt has better and more extended gameplay, more choices when it comes to weapons, exploration and movility in general, it heavily compensates what gtaiv lacked.
Tbogt needed to exist, in order to make gtaiv more decent and competent among others gta's, gtaiv by itself was and is very limited, i would say as limited as gta3 after completion that is, and that, for being 8 years older, wouldnt be good at all.
The vibe, on the other hand was a nice change, remember that NYC its all about the glam and luxury too, so R* wanted to potray that this time, and they did it very well actually.

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#34

Posted 16 November 2013 - 01:56 PM

It always felt weird to me. Like they forcibly tried to make IV feel more vibrant and it just didn't work because Liberty City looks at it's best when its gloomy.

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Grievous
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#35

Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:14 AM

It's not as much as the vibe or setting as it is the fact that it under delivers, therefor creating the sensation that an alternate and more dramatic setting in the same vein as IV and Lost and Damned would have fitted better. An example would have been a tale with the irish mob.

 

Of course I would have preferred to not only have the irish mob tale but that Ballad also fulfills its original premise of delivering the big send-off to Liberty City, instead I found it to be a contradicting experience, where the action doesn't match the setting and reversely, the setting hinders the action. Ballad attempts to implement gameplay idea that is best suited for another terrain than Liberty City, whereas IV and Lost and Damned worked greatly on the Liberty City sandbox, using its actual locations rather than to take place in newly designed interiors or other such confined environment as Ballad did.

 

I've responded to this issue rather lengthily in another topic if anybody else can bare to criticize Ballad.

 

In the meantime I can copy paste an alternative of what I believe to be a more satisfying manner in keeping the Ballad's same setting along with IV's same pessimism, and by making Tony as the actual playable character instead while letting a highly efficient npc Luis take care of all the linear action:

 

 

I would have made Tony as the playable protagonist and Luis as the always-efficient npc ally. Tony is not a killer or a car-jacker, he would be extremely inefficient in shooting even a handgun. The game therefor turns itself into a more strategic experience where management is key. You handle the club management business from the inside, you send Luis out on missions, you order him to protect you or to kill the targets for you as you stay put and avoid getting shot. Only on few occasions do you get to control Luis, notably when dealing with heavy arsenal weaponry and vehicles. This in turn makes the action scenes less frequent and consequently more memorable.

At the end of your journey, the same scene where Luis is asked to kill Tony occurs. Albeit this time the gameplay perspective shifts and instead of controlling Tony, you control Luis. Throughout the game you've been influencing and managing your club business as Tony, and only Tony could perform this task.

If Luis kills Tony, the club business as promised by Rocco, will be saved. You still get your income from the success or failures of your management, but you won't be able to improve it anymore, you just reap your reward of it, but only through Luis, never with Tony again.

Alternatively, you can refuse the offer, stick by Tony and protect him from the mafia onslaught, however Tony's business will be effectively ruined and can never be rebuilt. Both Tony and Luis survives, but they will loose all of their fortune, and no reward whatsoever to reap other than this 'friendship no matter what angle'.

Additional possible outcome from this second ending comes depending on whom your club business has been profiting with. Yusuf Amir will perhaps promise to take care of Tony in the future if Yusuf was satisfied with Luis' help. Alternatively Luis might not even survive the mafia onslaught and Tony will be left alone in Liberty City. Whichever the case, this was not going to end well and cheaply. Everything indeed, has its price.

 

 

 

 

 


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#36

Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:59 AM

TBOGT had a great feel, it reminded me of that feeling I would get from playing the III era games. I'd even go as far as to say it's up there with VC and SA when it comes to that. it was a great escape from the dark and gritty vibes of IV and TLAD.


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#37

Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:47 AM

I liked changes made in TBOGT like Weather,Weapons,Parachute,etc

But I Hate Luis


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#38

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:48 AM

I liked TBOGT's vibe, it shows that Liberty City isn't limited to one side/atmosphere, but I hated the story.


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#39

Posted 29 November 2013 - 07:55 AM

GTA IV and TLaD focused purely on the repercussions of criminal life, while TBoGT did not. That alone is what started the death of the IV era. Though the DLC did expand on IV's story (and it DID do it in a good way), it purely didn't fit with the other two stories. Having such an atmosphere crash actually can butcher both the DLC and the base game.


Grievous
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#40

Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:43 PM

The thing is, to me, Ballad was precisely disappointing because it Did Not expanded on IV's story, nor did it contributed to anything interesting on its own.

 

They basically tried to make it relevant by turning Bulgarin into the 'big bad'. But even that felt too brief and under-developed.

I would rather have more screentime for Ray Bulgarin than Mori Kibbutz. Not the least of which is that Mori remains, in the eyes of Luis, a "orange midget". So it was a dead-end development there to begin with.

 

They also tried to make it relevant by showing us 'who' is the one who finds the diamonds. And they did so by forcing an awkward ret-con in the diamonds placement.

 

All of it just feels forced, the Ballad could have reached the greatness it so desperately wishes to convoy if only it took place in a context that suited such loads of artificiality.

Ballad would have made for a more entertaining piece as a GTA V DLC for example, because that game at least shares the desire to go for over the top, unrepentant criminal mayhem entertainment.


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#41

Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:37 PM

I like to play things in canon order and TBOGT always leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to finishing IV. Something about it just felt... off. Can't quite put my finger on it though.


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#42

Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:51 AM

In Liberty City, which is based on New York, there are two sides. We explored the darker side in TLaD and IV, but we never got to see the lighter and more joyous side that involved bright lights, nightclubs, partying, money and outright crazy fun. TBoGT gave us that vibe while still being heavily involved in the criminal activity that the other two were built on. Were we supposed to have 3 games with a depressing vibe and be expected to call it fun?

Grievous
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#43

Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:18 PM

But who says it had to had a "fun" vibe in the first place?

Also, the depressing vibe were considerably 'fun' to some of us, so a third piece of depressing environment would still have been entertaining.

 

And while we're at it, outright crazy fun situations could have also took place under a more grounded and less 'everybody high five' atmosphere. IV and Lost and Damned had their fair share of crazy chases and shootouts while retaining its pessimistic vibe, so it works.

 

But I guess the question of what is fun and what isn't is entirely subjective, so Ballad was mostly made to cater those who didn't had fun with IV.

What's bothersome is that they could have simply let the GTA IV trilogy carry out on its own, and only bring back the good old fashion outrageous events for GTA V.

 

Which they inevitably did ... somewhat.


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#44

Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

TBoGT and IV balanced each other.  One dark and serious, the other more light hearted.

 

TLaTD was the worst of the 3 for me.  It was just depressing and a lot less enjoyable.


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#45

Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:57 AM

I agree with you, GTA IV and TLAD where my favorites, but TBOGT had some good guns like the M249, Still it could never compare to the Cobray Street Sweeper in TLAD.


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#46

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:23 AM

The street sweeper is definitely one of the best weapons in the iv era, but the aa-12 with explosive rounds is superior (at least for me) , since its more powerful and have a veeery long range (for a shotgun that is).

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#47

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:46 AM Edited by BBQ RIBS, 12 December 2013 - 04:46 AM.

I f*cking loved TBOGT. Definitely didn't ruin anything for me. It wasn't over the top at all.

I remember coming to this site and seeing the countdown. I was going crazy.

Coming from the grey IV and TLAD (which I loved too), TBOGT felt like a cool breeze.

Great way to wrap up GTA IV.


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#48

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:00 PM

The Ballad of Gay Tony is very good, it is just a shame that i had to play 2 boring stories before it. TBOGT should have been GTA4.


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#49

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:40 PM

I enjoyed TBoGT and the vibe didn't bother me at all.  Liberty City is a huge place with different social/cultural aspects. TBoGT showed what was actually happening in the city when Niko and Johnny were doing their thing.  The same can be said for Luis.    While Luis was managing the club, Niko could have been working on kidnapping Gracie.

 

The city is shown to be fuller and more diverse than just a place of crime.  Niko, Johnny, and Luis are very different people and see the city and what it can offer in a totally different way.  I loved how each of them didn't know each other but their paths crossed just briefly as to not affect their own way of life.

 

Great VIBE and made LC look and feel like a place for tourist.

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Black & White
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#50

Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

Hmm.. I don't think it completely ruined and destroyed the DLC pack, but it was slightly a downfall. Atleast I didn't like it. The storyline didn't make sense and Luis was portrayed as some superman-like figure. The extreme missions came in too fast and forced the player to get involved too soon.


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#51

Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:37 PM

It does seem different, but for the better IMO.

I thought the IV and TLATD felt serious and the environment reflected. I thought TBOGT felt more cheerful and vibrant. Almost sort of like Los Santos, but still maintaining that east coast feel. I may be in the minority, but TBOGT is my favorite to freeroam in based on those environmental factors.

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#52

Posted 26 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

It really ruined the HD Universe vibe, similiar to GTA5. LC is a dark and gritty city, not a happy go-lucky city where everyone dresses up in flowers.


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#53

Posted 26 March 2014 - 03:37 PM

It really ruined the HD Universe vibe, similiar to GTA5. LC is a dark and gritty city, not a happy go-lucky city where everyone dresses up in flowers.

People did not dress up in flowers in TBOGT. It showed the glitzy side of criminal life which does exist. I swear some people here have never been to NYC if they think this side of it doesn't exist. I used to tend bar in a place like Bahama Mamas so I have seen it myself.


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#54

Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:32 PM

 

It really ruined the HD Universe vibe, similiar to GTA5. LC is a dark and gritty city, not a happy go-lucky city where everyone dresses up in flowers.

People did not dress up in flowers in TBOGT. It showed the glitzy side of criminal life which does exist. I swear some people here have never been to NYC if they think this side of it doesn't exist. I used to tend bar in a place like Bahama Mamas so I have seen it myself.

 

As a native New Yorker who used to go clubbing back in the day, I agree with you 100%. It shows a different side of LC, not as dark as GTA IV & TLAD.


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#55

Posted 11 May 2014 - 01:38 PM

 

 

It really ruined the HD Universe vibe, similiar to GTA5. LC is a dark and gritty city, not a happy go-lucky city where everyone dresses up in flowers.

People did not dress up in flowers in TBOGT. It showed the glitzy side of criminal life which does exist. I swear some people here have never been to NYC if they think this side of it doesn't exist. I used to tend bar in a place like Bahama Mamas so I have seen it myself.

 

As a native New Yorker who used to go clubbing back in the day, I agree with you 100%. It shows a different side of LC, not as dark as GTA IV & TLAD.

 

Blah, blah, blah... but it's LIBERTY CITY! It can be much different from NYC  :sarcasm:


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#56

Posted 11 May 2014 - 05:04 PM Edited by JeffreyDahmer, 11 May 2014 - 05:04 PM.

no for me it just showed another side to Liberty city it cant all Be Gloom if it was  the city would be Pretty 1 dimensional IV And tlad showed the Darker side of the Liberty city Underworld TBOGT Showed the More Upper Class Glamorous  side of the LC Underworld for me it gives the city More Charterer. 


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#57

Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:16 AM

It always felt more like this. GTA IV is the middle ground, the war vet turned criminal in a timeless revenge story. TLAD is the Low Ground dirty life filled with disgust, betrayal, and grit. TBoGT is the High Ground of comedy and glitzy, glamorous clubs. Three perspectives of the same city. TBoGT was just more light hearted for being the high road.

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#58

Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:18 AM

The vibe was a little over the top. Originally I assume Tbogt was meant to be on a level with IV and Tlad. But Rockstar put in more reasons to buy that game....parachutes, tank, explosive shells, sticky bombs, bblowing up helicopters. Stealing a train ..lots of destruction. As if Luis would be capable of all this. Tbogt is a fun game. But Rockstar put in too much for this rather short ballad. Tlad and tbogt should have been a bit longer. Like 30 missions each. Side stories and missions alright. But a little bit more on the antagonist.
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#59

Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:18 AM

The whole 'vibe' of The Ballad was over-the-top and entertaining. Everything was IN YOUR FACE and explosions were everywhere. There seems to be a split of people who like it vs. the people who don't. I'm kinda in between. I don't mind the rich and colorful atmosphere and the random crazy missions, but I don't necessarily like it being saturated. I really like the contrasts of all 3 protagonists stories.

 

In regards to it ruining the series, I think that it ruined the creativity of the art styles and atmosphere. GTA V is really colorful, but it lacks an overall atmosphere and underlying point to it. Rockstar decided to put in fast vehicles and have 94% of the missions explosive and dramatic for no reason.

 

Ah, there's so many points I wish to iterate, but a few people have already gotten to it already. Essentially, yes, TBoGT did ruin the series IMO. Too many explosions, fast vehicles, and not enough emphasis on character development is what it's guilty of.

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#60

Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:03 AM

I think it just gave us a sight into what R* could do with storylines and game content. Like everyone else said, the entire GTA IV era and all 3 games gave us 3 different views to the same city and the same universe. All 3 games were different from one another. GTA 3 was the standard GTA game, TLAD was more of a biker version, and TBoGT was a higher end, more white collar type of crime scene. It seemed so irregular and out there because it wasn't something we hadn't really be exposed to. All previous games were street criminals, they weren't club owners, they weren't personal bodyguards to a regular player. It felt like the most different because when looking at it compared to the entire series it was, but when looking at it compared to just TLAD and GTA4 it wasn't so out of place.





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