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R3AL1Z3
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#1

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:31 AM

Seeing as this is a mature rated title, I thought I would bounce a few things off you guys/girls and get your input on video-game violence and its place in the news.

First things first...

- Go ahead and just hit that little back button in your browser if you lack the ability to hold an intelligent conversation and/or have the attention span of a goldfish.




That being said, I found this article cruising the interwebs.


VIA The Associated Press
SLAUGHTER,La.[Yes, that is the REAL name of the city] — 'Authorities in Louisiana say an 8-year-old boy intentionally shot and killed a 90-year-old woman who was his caregiver after watching a video game with violent themes.

[Say this 5 times fast] East Feliciana Parish sheriff's deputies said the juvenile was playing the video game Grand Theft Auto IV — a realistic game that's been associated with encouraging violence and awards points to players for killing people — just minutes before the fatal shooting.

Authorities are calling the shooting a homicide.

Sgt. Kevin Garig told The Advocate that the identities of both the shooter and the victim are being withheld.

Garig said the woman died after suffering at least one gunshot wound to the head. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

Louisiana law prohibits authorities from charging the child with a crime because of his age.'


The thing that I'm sure most if not all of you scoffed at, is the statement.....

"Grand Theft Auto IV — a realistic game that's been associated with encouraging violence and awards points to players for killing people"

"awards points to players for killing people"

"awards points to players for killing people"



The fact that the largest news organization in the world is so completely out of touch with the gaming scene blows my mind. Of course AP has a history of blatant sensationalist stories and public misdirection, but for them to be ignorant to the recent iterations of GTA is astounding. Yes, in the first two games you were awarded points for causing mayhem and killing pedestrians, the series has evolved by leaps and bounds from the murder simulator/media black sheep into an adult narrative filled with well crafted social and political commentary that gives almost every other form of media a run for its money. You havent gotten points for random [That being the key word here, side-missions being excluded] acts of violence since GTA 2. This just seems as if its just REACHING for click-throughs as GTA 5's release draws near, because who doesnt want a piece of that GTA attention.

Another angle that was completely dismissed in favor of demonizing the franchise; how did the child get a hold of the game? Any time a person dies outside of natural causes is indeed a tragedy, but the way it was written makes it seem as if the kid turned on his system, launched GTA IV, shot some people in the face, and just got up and re-enacted what he saw. There has to have been a history of him playing this game, and, for certain with an adults consent.

I have been playing violent video games since Texas Chainsaw Massacre on the Atari 2600. I'm 25 years old now, and after decades of almost certainly slaughtering EASILY a googolplex-wiki- of polygonal characters, I havent once thought to myself, "You know what self? *I drink the leftover milk out of my cereal bowl* "Today is a good day to murder some people in cold blood."


In short, I like to think of it like this; we are all the ambassadors of the gaming scene and its up to us to show the uneducated masses that we are not all psychopaths who are just one broken pencil lead away from driving down the wrong side of the road, tossing grenades out the window as we laugh maniacally.
Should there be age restrictions on media such as GTA? Of course. Is the ESRB rating system capable of keeping such content out of children who are not fully capable of processing the difference between fantasy and reality? Not in the slightest. But, in the end it is the job of the parent to reinforce morals and a basic understanding of reality VS fantasy. Otherwise, its like me blaming porn for making me masturbate.





Boozexlightyearxx
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#2

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:38 AM

Sadly blaming video games is the easy answer for them.

There's plenty off issues such as why didn't the caretaker kept the gun in a secure place?
Or better yet have one.... i'm not against owning guns but still?

There's been alot of tragedy occurring with little kids killing someone nd why? Irresponsible parents and on one case....a idiot father giving his five year old son a gun as a gift....

Ashbringer45
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#3

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:39 AM

Before the word video game was even made up there was murder aswell. What did they blame it on in that time?

TheCrewGeneral
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#4

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:41 AM

...... So GTA gets the blame for everything right? Remind you, it's the guardians fault for having a gun around in a reach of a 8 year old. And having possesing of a rated M for mature game. There's games out there that puts violence in the GTA franchise to shame. Shame on people for blaming games for stupidity and shame on that 8 year old for being stupid. He's not 5. He's f*cking 8 years old.

iddqdvie
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#5

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

news always tries to provoke, to get people fighting over topics they wouldn't even care about. stop reading the news is my suggestion.

MrSpooge
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#6

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

You must love this kid -

King Of Monra
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#7

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:45 AM

QUOTE (Ashbringer45 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 06:39)
Before the word video game was even made up there was murder aswell. What did they blame it on in that time?

Before video games it was violent movies, before violent movies it was books, before books it was "I want your land" or as the kids say these days, because #yolo#swag.

LaDispute
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#8

Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:49 AM

QUOTE (Ashbringer45 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 14:39)
Before the word video game was even made up there was murder aswell. What did they blame it on in that time?

They blamed murder on violent boardgames back then.

R3AL1Z3
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#9

Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (Boozexlightyearxx @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 06:38)
There's plenty off issues such as why didn't the caretaker kept the gun in a secure place?
Or better yet have one.... i'm not against owning guns but still?

Valid point. How did this child, who was playing a video-game, understand the mechanics of a gun unless someone had taught him previously or he spent extensive time with games of this nature.

rela82me
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#10

Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:07 AM

I wrote an entire research paper that was actually published in college on this, here is a draft http://db.tt/CELrqSa2

dhuyd
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#11

Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:15 AM Edited by dhuyd, 24 August 2013 - 08:19 AM.

QUOTE (R3AL1Z3 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 01:14)
QUOTE (Boozexlightyearxx @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 06:38)
There's plenty off issues such as why didn't the caretaker kept the gun in a secure place?
Or better yet have one.... i'm not against owning guns but still?

Valid point. How did this child, who was playing a video-game, understand the mechanics of a gun unless someone had taught him previously or he spent extensive time with games of this nature.

1. The child shouldn't of had the gun more than he shouldn't of had an M rated game. (He shouldn't have either anyways. Both are for people who are old enough and can handle them responsibly.)
2. A child doesn't need to know how to fire a gun to be able to shoot it. Kids love to experiment and try new things. That's how they learn. There are toddlers who have shot others without any concept of what a gun is or does, or how to work it.

pubisboy
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#12

Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE (King Of Monra @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 06:45)
QUOTE (Ashbringer45 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 06:39)
Before the word video game was even made up there was murder aswell. What did they blame it on in that time?

Before video games it was violent movies, before violent movies it was books, before books it was "I want your land" or as the kids say these days, because #yolo#swag.

Don't forget Rock Music! Rock has created alot of killers during the years too.

Toshio_maxoS
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#13

Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:25 AM

Why don't you tell it Gaius Julius Caesar???
He may played GTA: Rome Edition and killed some black slaves when he was in the age of 12?

Video Games arn't responsible for crime, murder and all this other stuff.
Its... honestly... humanity. It's nature.

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#14

Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

#1. The parents can simply adjust the "parental control level" in the PS3's security settings preventing stupid kids from playing M rated games.
#2. Why did this kid have an M rated game?
#3. Why was having access to a gun with bullets so easy for this kid to gain access to it?
#4. If anyone (doesn't matter who you are) can't see the difference from fantasy or reality then they need to be in a mental institute.
#5. He probably just asked his granny if she could make him a sandwich and when she didn't he said, "f*ck it what good is the ol' bag if she can't plop her walker down and creep her ass to the kitchen, and make me a damn sandwich?".

Parents always blame video games as to why their kid did this or that and they always say, "I had no idea they were doing this or that their was a problem". NO sh*t DUMB PHUCKS, BECAUSE YOU SUCK AS PARENTS!



Anyways sorry about number five... it could happen though.

feestaap1
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#15

Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:06 AM

Belgian auto-news site is picking up the hype by posting this: http://www.autokanaa...epage_blokonder

title: gta in real life

translation text:
A person who walks on the street, a driver who honks at him and the next thing that happens is that the driver is being shot at by the walker! These are typical scenes from the game gta but now in real life.

Maybe the leading character in this video couldn't wait longer to get the game that comes out in september...

R3AL1Z3
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#16

Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE (rela82me @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 08:07)
I wrote an entire research paper that was actually published in college on this, here is a draft http://db.tt/CELrqSa2

Excellent piece, man.

I feel as if people are quicker than flies on crap to blame any form of media and not their lack of parenting skills. Were living in a digital age, with my generation being the last to have any semblance of distinction between reality and fiction. Kids nowadays, staring from about '95 and onward, are so consumed by all things internet that it has started to reflect in their speech patterns and behaviors. Consider the devolution of speech through text lingo.

Secura
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#17

Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:04 AM Edited by Lightning Strike, 24 August 2013 - 11:08 AM.

These people absolutely sicken me, they think that for some reason or another they can pick on videogames and gaming in general because it's a 'new medium' because they're still things directed solely at children and are sill their infancy. The fact is it isn't, to put this into perspective the first Mario game (Donkey Kong) Released nearly thirty three years ago. That's insane amount of time since that game released only six years after the Vietnamese War ended. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, the fact is that videogames aren't new anymore, they are a well-established form of entertainment and some of us need to realise that the industry isn't solely marketed to the under ten crowd.

There are games out there that fit every single age group; for example: Brain Training for the Nintendo DS is directed towards a more adult crowd whereas games like Call of Duty: Black Ops II and Battlefield 3 attract a teenage to young adult crowd. There's simply no way that you could make the argument that videogames and gaming in general is still in its infancy since that's a complete and utter logical fallacy. Well this is where it gets tricky seeing as when you treat gaming like a proper form of entertainment you have to start forcing the blame for situations onto the people that play them rather then the games themselves. So then you have the issue of parental responsibility, when I was younger (I'm talking around about the age of nine or ten) I had a number of friends that honestly weren't allowed to play videogames that had an ESRB rating over twelve.

The whole reason for this is that their parents believed that videogames could have adverse effects on a child's mind or some other bullcrap like that and thought that for some reason or another I was going to end up as a very messed up individual due to my mother not caring about the age rating on the box, in her mind it worked like this: Can my child differentiate between fantasy and reality? Yes. Then he or she should be able to play whatever videogame they want to, regardless of the damn age rating. You see it's my personal opinion that videogames don't do anything to a person psychologically, or rather they don't do anything psychologically damaging to said person, the only thing that it's possible for them to do is desensitize us to virtual violence, does that mean that we're no longer affected when we see real violence? Of course not.

For some reason or another a number of people seem to think that by playing videogames that are quite graphic, violent or explicit in nature can have adverse effects on the person playing them, the only way that I can see that happening is if there's something already wrong with the person in the first place. That's not to say that videogames don't impact people or have an affect on them, what it means is that I highly doubt videogames are the cause of any person going completely insane because there's simply not enough evidence to support it, and in most cases it's later found that the person who went absolutely crazy after playing a videogame already had a lot of underlying psychological issues that they weren't dealing with correctly leading to the breakdown.

Simply put people do pay attention to the ESRB ratings (as much as I personally disagree with the things) but for all the wrong reasons, misinformation is never a good thing, neither is fear and that's not really what you want to feel when you're purchasing a videogame for yourself or someone else. Some people have been brainwashed by the media to think that videogames are the devil, when in actuality it seems that videogames are just the 'new' Rock and Roll.

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#18

Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:10 AM

Well whoever gave the child a game is downright stupid. Children of a young age have difficulty separating reality from fiction. So for all the child knew, he would have thought there was no big trouble for doing it. A child would not know anything really about violence major punishment, drugs, gambling in fact any of the features in the game. Its not the games fault, its not really the childs either. Its the person who decided to allow them to play the game.

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#19

Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

100% agree with OP. But even if you ignore the fact that an 8-year old played a mature-rated game, there still has to be something wrong with a kid that just goes around and guns down a human being. When I watched Harry Potter as a kid, did I run into walls afterwards to find the hidden train station? No! Someone who confuses videogames with reality, being it a child or not, has some serious problems... And let's just not talk about the fact that an 8-year-old had acces to guns....

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#20

Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:14 PM

This is NOT an honest discussion. Because again we're forced to reacted to slanted reporting without any substance. To defend gaming as a whole against incidents, poorly reported. I mean, jesus.. where is the causality here? Nobody asks why the kid CAN EVEN get to a gun? I knew Louisiana was a f*cked up, backwards place.. but.. damn.

And we as reasonable people are supposed to go into a debate with THAT? We can probably segue nicely into a debate about "intelligent design" too. f*ck off, I refuse.. get your ass, morals and opinions into the 21st century and we'll talk, maybe.

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#21

Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

A mature intelligent thread. Thanks OP (and those who have posted intelligent replies)

QUOTE
Another angle that was completely dismissed in favor of demonizing the franchise; how did the child get a hold of the game?


A bigger question... How the hell does an 8 year old get access to a gun?!?

The fact that minors can access an 18 rated game is a concern, but in this age of digital downloads, Internet access etc it is difficult to control (as a parent I am acutely aware of this) - however, to enable my child to have access to a gun is downright abhorrent. The issue is not the accessibility to a game/film/tv/book - it's the lack of parental guidance and supervision.

Shocking.

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#22

Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

Yea blame video games instead parents (?) Who left the gun on such a place that 8yr old can get it...

R3AL1Z3
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#23

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE (theworldfamous @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 12:14)
This is NOT an honest discussion. Because again we're forced to reacted to slanted reporting without any substance. To defend gaming as a whole against incidents, poorly reported. I mean, jesus.. where is the causality here? Nobody asks why the kid CAN EVEN get to a gun? I knew Louisiana was a f*cked up, backwards place.. but.. damn.

And we as reasonable people are supposed to go into a debate with THAT? We can probably segue nicely into a debate about "intelligent design" too. f*ck off, I refuse.. get your ass, morals and opinions into the 21st century and we'll talk, maybe.

In case you missed the point entirely, I was arguing against the article itself. I present all my questions and present statements that are the basis for the topic. Could we segue into intelligent desgin? Yes, but then we would be going into an area of religious views based on books that are thousands of years old.


I'm not personally invested in the article in the sense that I believe video games are a contributing factor to violent outbursts; more so in the fact that video games are not a catalyst for acts of violence.

R3AL1Z3
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#24

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:25 PM

@Lightning Strike


I strongly agree with everything you've said. However, I still feel that the industry as a whole needs the ESRB just as the movie and music industry need their respective ratings boards. Its good that video games police themselves in such a manner to avoid any government oversight or backlash from backwards parents who choose to blame video games for their lack of parental skills. If the game sports a mature rating, parents can gauge how they feel about their child consuming such a product. On the contrary, I do not feel that anyone can simply catagorize certain media into age groups. Whose to say that, for example, 13 year olds can or cannot handle most of the things in PG-13 movies. Every child has a different viewpoint, upbringing and mental capacity; to lay claim to the fact that there is a magical transition from 12 to 13 granting the viewer the ability to process what is being shown to them is absurd. It al comes down to the way a child is raised and the role a parent has in their childs development process.

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#25

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (R3AL1Z3 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 13:14)
QUOTE (theworldfamous @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 12:14)
This is NOT an honest discussion. Because again we're forced to reacted to slanted reporting without any substance. To defend gaming as a whole against incidents, poorly reported. I mean, jesus.. where is the causality here? Nobody asks why the kid CAN EVEN get to a gun? I knew Louisiana was a f*cked up, backwards place.. but.. damn.

And we as reasonable people are supposed to go into a debate with THAT? We can probably segue nicely into a debate about "intelligent design" too. f*ck off, I refuse.. get your ass, morals and opinions into the 21st century and we'll talk, maybe.

In case you missed the point entirely, I was arguing against the article itself. I present all my questions and present statements that are the basis for the topic. Could we segue into intelligent desgin? Yes, but then we would be going into an area of religious views based on books that are thousands of years old.


I'm not personally invested in the article in the sense that I believe video games are a contributing factor to violent outbursts; more so in the fact that video games are not a catalyst for acts of violence.

Don't worry I'm not attacking you. Just really sick of getting dragged into this discussion because some nitwit journo from a backwater somewhere needs something to write about. It's cool you want to discuss it, but in my mind that whole topic has long been settled. Just because some idiot wants to bring it up, doesn't mean we have to reply.

R3AL1Z3
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#26

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:31 PM Edited by R3AL1Z3, 24 August 2013 - 01:44 PM.

QUOTE (Nobitos @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 12:50)
Yea blame video games instead parents (?) Who left the gun on such a place that 8yr old can get it...

Exactly my point. Also, being a firm advocate of gun rights but not a complete nut job in the sense that I feel the need to stockpile weaponry; I believe a child of almost any age can be taught to respect guns. Parents are in a position to teach their children that guns are not a toy and should be respected in the utmost sense. My nephew loves to go shooting with me, and has shot myriad forms of guns, but he understands the power they hold and does not take them lightly. He's been taught how to use guns in case of a need of self defense and only then if there is absolutely no other option than to fire the gun at another human being.





@Kemo66

The age qualification they put on video games and how they classify them are perfectly fine. However, I believe it is the job of the parent to research what they are putting in their childs hands. Can a minor play a mature rated title? Yes; only if they have the mental capacity to carry the weight of said content without adopting the behaviors of the information they are receiving. Again, that lays on the upbringing of the child and how involved a parent is in the shaping of a childs ability to process information.

R3AL1Z3
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#27

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE (theworldfamous @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 13:26)
QUOTE (R3AL1Z3 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 13:14)
QUOTE (theworldfamous @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 12:14)
This is NOT an honest discussion. Because again we're forced to reacted to slanted reporting without any substance. To defend gaming as a whole against incidents, poorly reported. I mean, jesus.. where is the causality here? Nobody asks why the kid CAN EVEN get to a gun? I knew Louisiana was a f*cked up, backwards place.. but.. damn.

And we as reasonable people are supposed to go into a debate with THAT? We can probably segue nicely into a debate about "intelligent design" too. f*ck off, I refuse.. get your ass, morals and opinions into the 21st century and we'll talk, maybe.

In case you missed the point entirely, I was arguing against the article itself. I present all my questions and present statements that are the basis for the topic. Could we segue into intelligent desgin? Yes, but then we would be going into an area of religious views based on books that are thousands of years old.


I'm not personally invested in the article in the sense that I believe video games are a contributing factor to violent outbursts; more so in the fact that video games are not a catalyst for acts of violence.

Don't worry I'm not attacking you. Just really sick of getting dragged into this discussion because some nitwit journo from a backwater somewhere needs something to write about. It's cool you want to discuss it, but in my mind that whole topic has long been settled. Just because some idiot wants to bring it up, doesn't mean we have to reply.

Yes, we could ignore the fact that the journalist has no clue as to what the state of the games industry is like. I firmly believe that video games are such an important piece of social commentary and an art form as a whole. The method of content delivery through video games presents an amazing way of becoming more invested into a story and it attributes to the allowance a deeper personal connection to the subject at hand.


However, if we were to just ignore the topic at hand, then how many people outside of our field of interest would read such an article and upon only receiving one side of the story take that as truth? As I stated before, we are the ambassadors of gaming and it is our job to defend it in an intelligent and well-thought manner so as to educate people on the current state of video game culture.

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#28

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:40 PM

First question that needs to be asked is not 'how did the kid got his hands on the game' because that's redundant, numerous studies have set in stone that violent video games do not cause people to commit heinous acts of violence, at least not when no underlying mental issues are at play. No, the first and only question that needs to be asked is "how did an 8 year old (with a possible underlying violence-inducing mental condition) get his hands on a working firearm?"

z06z33
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#29

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:41 PM

The true cause of murder is that it is a very human thing to kill. For over 200,000 years we were forced to kill eachother to survive and that has only stopped in the last 200 years. We need time to stop killing you cant break 200,000 years of adaptation over night

R3AL1Z3
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#30

Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

QUOTE (z06z33 @ Saturday, Aug 24 2013, 13:41)
The true cause of murder is that it is a very human thing to kill. For over 200,000 years we were forced to kill eachother to survive and that has only stopped in the last 200 years. We need time to stop killing you cant break 200,000 years of adaptation over night

Killing to survive; yes. Thrill killing? No. That is a behavioral issue and presents a problem on a deeper level mostly due to underlying conditions and experiences a person has been made to endure.




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