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Commercial Exploit of GTA Mods

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pedro2555
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#1

Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:57 AM Edited by pedro2555, 15 August 2013 - 07:28 AM.

Recently I've standed against commercial exploitation of mods for GTA IV and I was nicely putted way by GTA4-mods.com website administration.

I would like to emphasize to every developer, that commercial exploit of any software that derives, requires and/or makes use of software by Take Two Interactive Software, Inc., is a violation of the End User License Agreement License Conditions (EULA for short). You agree to these conditions when installing GTA IV or any of the available Downloadable Content (DLC).

Take Two Interactive Software, Inc states under LICENSE CONDITIONS :

QUOTE

...
You agree not to:
Commercially exploit the Software;
...

QUOTE

...
USER CREATED CONTENT: The Software may allow you to create content, including but not limited to a gameplay map, a scenario, screenshot of a car design or a video of your game play. In exchange for use of the Software, and to the extent that your contributions through use of the Software give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant Licensor an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services, including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Licensor’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law. This license grant to Licensor, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination of this License.
...


Please read carefully the above conditions, and note that most mods require violation of software protection, hence a violation of the EULA in question too. Although it is not completely illegal to create script mods for GTA IV, it is illegal to commercially make use of any modification independently from the creator. As all modifications for GTA IV are indirectly granted an exclusive license to Take Two Interactive Software, Inc you don't hold the right to sell it. In court, a good lawyer can state you are producing allowed user created content that happens to require protection violation and get away with it, but not if you are making money out of it.

Rockstar Games is very nice to the modding community because they know it makes their game sell for a longer period, so be nice to them as well and don't sell mods and/or mod development.

I would like to ask respect for me and others when replying to this post, there will be very different opinions on this matter, so don't hate each other because of that, rather respect everyone's will.

Sure of everyone's comprehension and without any more subject on this matter.

Sincerely,
Pedro Rodrigues.

The Loot
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#2

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

Selling content that you didn't make is completely unnacceptable, of course, but don't try to use EULAs as an argument; They are laughable, and blatantly violate consumer, property, and intellectual property rights.

pedro2555
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#3

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:10 AM Edited by pedro2555, 14 August 2013 - 11:14 AM.

QUOTE (The Loot @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 10:27)
Selling content that you didn't make is completely unnacceptable, of course, but don't try to use EULAs as an argument; They are laughable, and blatantly violate consumer, property, and intellectual property rights.

I'm not trying anything.

EULAs, whether you like them or not, are there and you should follow them, for at least respect for the game developers. If you don't agree with them kindly refuse to install the game and return it where you bought it.

Selling products that require non given permission for usage of others software is a clear violation of property and intellectual rights.

I would like to point out that this is not my opinion. Is the opinion of Take Two Interactive Software, Inc. If you have something to say you should contact them at:

TAKE-TWO INTERACTIVE SOFTWARE, INC.
622 BROADWAY, NEW YORK, NY 10012.

If you want my opinion then, I think no one should sell software. They should rather give the software to the public domain, to allow others to evolve person or product related. That is the only way for us (as a whole) to be better and live better. And that I apply to any technology, technology rules your life, and that is not a bad thing, under contrary. Technology allows you to focus on being a better individual rather than surviving (whether it is by working for food and/or necessities or for money to buy food and/or necessities), and hence improve technology, for the benefit of those who are to come and those who are here now and also for respect to the ones who left us this world.

I myself have violated countless EULAs, by providing access to payed software for free, and I don't regret it. But selling without all the permission I do think is unacceptable.

Me and countless others have given free contributions to the world and that just makes our world better. Even this platform is provided to you using free products (PHP and HTML are free, aswell as Apache and other HTTP Servers).

I do think selling slows down our development. But I do sell my knowledge for a living though.

With all respect for yours, this is my opinion.

Michael Wojtanis
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#4

Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

Yep, i know what You mean.
The russia page sell ... free mods. The administrator was invited me to give mods on page. I thought "He mayby have some contact with R*". While i waiting for reply i made account and... i could not login because i do not got any password to write.
He said "Oh, okey, there is Your password : xxxxxxxxx" ... That was sad. He just wanted earn money for free mods and i think he will never give any $ for developers of mods.

This is very bad... Mods MUST be free.
There are others ways to earn some $ - like me and JulioNIB - adf.ly. Not much frustating but we can handle the pages and keep work on mods. smile.gif


pedro2555
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#5

Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (Michael Wojtanis @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 12:21)
Yep, i know what You mean.
The russia page sell ... free mods. The administrator was invited me to give mods on page. I thought "He mayby have some contact with R*". While i waiting for reply i made account and... i could not login because i do not got any password to write.
He said "Oh, okey, there is Your password : xxxxxxxxx" ... That was sad. He just wanted earn money for free mods and i think he will never give any $ for developers of mods.

This is very bad... Mods MUST be free.
There are others ways to earn some $ - like me and JulioNIB - adf.ly. Not much frustating but we can handle the pages and keep work on mods. smile.gif

I don't want to point fingers at anyone, but I don't think my case was with the same person, I might be wrong though.

But yeah it looks like you would have worked for free.

Making money out of programming is a very easy deal nowadays. You can even become a millionaire all by yourself. The recent cases of simple iOS apps, selling for less than $3 for instance, some have made millions. ENIGMO is one great example, it serves no purpose costs $2.99 making a whopping $5.000.000 in the first 15th months. And they are very easy to develop, specially Android apps. You just need luck.

Adf.ly works, but you don't make that much money out of it, I'm pretty sure. And for instance, ad-blockers prevent you from making money. I have an ad-blocker I've been developing by myself and works great, it is just a bunch of DNS entries in the Windows IP Configuration DNS list, it has around 15.000 web servers all pointing to my local network card instead of the their real IP. Most Adf.ly ads are blocked in my machine using this technique and you won't make money if I don't see the ad, because they count views using the HTTP referee header field and if the request does not reach the server, neither does the referee field of course and no money in your pocket, sadly. Also Youtube serves me for free because of this, no ads at all, it took me like 2 months to realize that there was video ads on Youtube, because they don't show for me.

Before someone asks, I will not share that list in here, sorry.

Michael Wojtanis
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#6

Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:41 PM

Yep, adf.ly can be blocked but... You still visit my page. 1/4 of my $ from page [page are new, www.wojtanis.com] is from visitors.
I calculated, if I will keep this moving, then in 3 months i can get back money from my page [i bought www adress, server etc].

Also i a HTML programist, so in future i want to add some comments and others things to hold people on my page. smile.gif
I do not want earny money for that. I just want to hold page. Nearly i will go search some work in Poland. This is hard in my country...

I did not have any IOS. In future mayby i will add some PayPal donation button, but i do not know how it is with my law [in my country].

My idea is on - give players fun. smile.gif

julionib
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#7

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:02 PM

Selling mods? thats not so good for people, but is hard obtain some $ reward after one month of work to develop something new and just "thanks", "awesome", "amazing" words don't pay my bills sad.gif

This is why i use and will keep using Ads in my blog, videos and adf.ly system, this keep this "free" service going on and makes me forget any idea of selling mods, at least for me, without the actual $$$ i would stopped months ago or did only few mods. I guess that waste 6 seconds of your time waiting for adf.ly count down is nothing compared to the time that i used developing the mod.

And about the Ads on blog, i guess that they are interesting, a lot of people click and i never asked they to click.

sorry, for my english smile.gif

pedro2555
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#8

Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:28 AM

QUOTE (julionib @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 22:02)
Selling mods? thats not so good for people, but is hard obtain some $ reward after one month of work to develop something new and just "thanks", "awesome", "amazing" words don't pay my bills sad.gif

This is why i use and will keep using Ads in my blog, videos and adf.ly system, this keep this "free" service going on and makes me forget any idea of selling mods, at least for me, without the actual $$$ i would stopped months ago or did only few mods. I guess that waste 6 seconds of your time waiting for adf.ly count down is nothing compared to the time that i used developing the mod.

And about the Ads on blog, i guess that they are interesting, a lot of people click and i never asked they to click.

sorry, for my english smile.gif

Just to reinforce I have nothing against Adf.ly or any similar service, as you say that makes you keep going, which is more than good. But waiting for a super slow connection to load 10 ads to see something that, because of that takes ages to load, or listening to a promotional video of something completely irrelevant on Youtube, that pisses me off. But I understand the reason and have nothing against it, I just work my around the ads, thats it. You could not provide the service they do without the ads, neither can Julio as it seems like.

I would never click an ad anyway, simply for the lack of security they transmit to me. But I am the first to suggest the use of them as an income source.

And thank you for the contribution you've done Julio, not only released mods of yours (which in my personal opinion are the best ones around, even over my own) but, more importantly, the excellent tutorials and articles on modding. I've personally seen the result of such work on a lot of new people starting to develop their own mods.

julionib
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#9

Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:01 PM

thx man, and yes, unfortunatelly some Ads are very bad, people with bad intentions use even google Ads to spread adware (and more) sometimes, that Ad with the big word "Download" its a good example, nothing useful but what we can do, i try to filter my ads to avoid this kind of result but is google system that filters in the end.

i didnt tought about the slow connections yet, but its a good point to consider, even with few people having this issue

pedro2555
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#10

Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (julionib @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 15:01)
thx man, and yes, unfortunatelly some Ads are very bad, people with bad intentions use even google Ads to spread adware (and more) sometimes, that Ad with the big word "Download" its a good example, nothing useful but what we can do, i try to filter my ads to avoid this kind of result but is google system that filters in the end.

i didnt tought about the slow connections yet, but its a good point to consider, even with few people having this issue

Yeah the connections problems I have in here are quite big. I live in Africa....

Send me a PM, I may send you my list. It needs no software, it is just a text file and works on Windows and MAC OSX.

lpgunit
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#11

Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:13 AM

The same goes with the debacle on whether user content for The Sims series should be profited on. Some argued against it based on the EULA, and even went so far as to offering pirated mods like paid hair or objects for free.

Sure, I can make $$$ for programming or making models and other content, but I mostly consider modding as a hobby. If I do want to earn from coding or authoring content for games, I could've either started my own studio, or apply for a job.

pedro2555
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#12

Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (Michael Wojtanis @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 18:41)
Yep, adf.ly can be blocked but... You still visit my page. 1/4 of my $ from page [page are new, www.wojtanis.com] is from visitors.
I calculated, if I will keep this moving, then in 3 months i can get back money from my page [i bought www adress, server etc].

Also i a HTML programist, so in future i want to add some comments and others things to hold people on my page. smile.gif
I do not want earny money for that. I just want to hold page. Nearly i will go search some work in Poland. This is hard in my country...

I did not have any IOS. In future mayby i will add some PayPal donation button, but i do not know how it is with my law [in my country].

My idea is on - give players fun. smile.gif

I missed this comment of yours.

You say you earn money from visitors to your page, how does that work, is it via advertising on the page itself?

If it is, you won't be earning money from someone visiting with an ad-blocker. I'm going to show you why that is and how ad programs count payments.

Using notepad++ download page as example: http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
This web page runs ads from Google AdSense program. If you examine the ad frame on the HTML source:
CODE

<iframe name="oauth2relay598664670" id="oauth2relay598664670" src="https://accounts.google.com/o/oauth2/postmessageRelay?parent=http%3A%2F%2Fnotepad-plus-plus.org#rpctoken=1184772891&amp;forcesecure=1" style="width: 1px; height: 1px; position: absolute; left: -100px;"></iframe>


Note the src attribute
CODE

https://accounts.google.com/o/oauth2/postmessageRelay?parent=http%3A%2F%2Fnotepad-plus-plus.org#rpctoken=1184772891&amp;forcesecure=1

The GET item 'parent' is the referal link to the actual webpage. accounts.google.com points to 173.194.78.84, if I run a local DNS service pointing accounts.google.com to 127.0.0.1, that request makes no sense, the target machine (127.0.0.1) does not know what to do with that request. And more important for the matter, the request never reachs 173.194.78.84, so Google AdSense knows nothing about what happen, consequently there is no income generated from this ad.

I don't know about a single ad service that does not work this way or in a very similar way. And I can tell you I know about more than 15000 ad services domain names.

This is just an educational example, in a IRL scenario I don't have that domain redirected (neither do I advise to do so) but rather a domain within the response, but that is not a good thing to be talking here, this is not the correct forum for that. If you want send me a PM with your webpage I will explain to you the process in your case.

Michael Wojtanis
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#13

Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:40 AM

I do not use AdSense - why? Because after 50 dolars they just made all my videos "not my work" and do not allow me to get up for 70$ to get money back...
AdSense f*ck people how much they can. That is true.
Also - JulioNIB can be banned from google. He use adf.ly and AdSense - AdSense do not like that.

I want to add some bar on top for Adf.ly.

julionib
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#14

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:36 PM

based on my last research i can use adf.ly with blogger, i will research again to see if something has changed

Michael Wojtanis
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#15

Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:21 AM

I was searching in Polish language and they was talking in 2010 nearly. Mayby now it is allowed i do not know.
smile.gif
But You know... i do not much like AdSense :<

quechus13
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#16

Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

The thing is once R* starts sharing videos of mods they actually stop caring about their EULA laws.

Take a look at Bethesda! They released the Creation Kit for Skyrim and strongly support modding.


Plus nobody really sells the mods unless its the russian guys like the one who posted a mod made out google map images..

I myself make 85% of my mods from scratch whenever I have time for GTA.
For Skyrim I do 100% from scratch.

lpgunit
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#17

Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:22 AM

QUOTE (quechus13 @ Tuesday, Aug 20 2013, 08:50)
The thing is once R* starts sharing videos of mods they actually stop caring about their EULA laws.

Take a look at Bethesda! They released the Creation Kit for Skyrim and strongly support modding.


Plus nobody really sells the mods unless its the russian guys like the one who posted a mod made out google map images..

I myself make 85% of my mods from scratch whenever I have time for GTA.
For Skyrim I do 100% from scratch.

Lulz. I would also object to bootlegging, too. I.e. when a total conversion mod ends up getting burned on a DVD and sold at a pirate shop. That was the case with the LCS PC Edition mod, as I've seen what appears to be a plastic-wrapped disc of it being peddled.

AgenBlaze
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#18

Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

I think the ones selling mods are the f*cking chinese and their half-assed VIP cars and ENB. The cars are just sh*t,low quality overhyped crap. ENB is even worse. Anyone with a brain can make an ENB settings. f*ck them


LordOfTheBongs
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#19

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:55 PM

tl:dr so is this basically saying u cant make money off gtaiv scripts u write using the scripthooks?

 

doesnt nixolas try to sell his mods?


pedro2555
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#20

Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

Not exactly. It means you can't sell mods directly, or anything that needs their software or it is based on it. Making money is a bit different, you can get paid for people clicking download links.


Michael Wojtanis
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#21

Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

Yeah.

I found some solution for AdSense + adf.ly.

You must include "nofollow" target for links. That is mean, bots of google WILL NOT include link to adf.ly. Your page just "disappear" in that pleace, google not add the adf.ly into Your page links.

 

If You will be banned from AdSense You must say, You use nofollow link. You should be unbanned because this make You not break law of AdSense. :)





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