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GTA IV&EFLC Graphical Bug Fixes

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nkjellman
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#61

Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:33 AM

There are slight changes here and there. Can someone tell me what the differences are between the console version and PC version of the TLAD timecyc.dat?

But I got to admit, this would be much easier to fix things if I had access to the Open IV teams tool, Black. I doubt they will give me access to the tool but it would help BIG TIME.

Deadly Target
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#62

Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:29 AM

TBoGT 360 - Sunny 6PM
user posted image

TBoGT PC - Sunny 6PM
user posted image

QUOTE (nkjellman @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 06:33)
Can someone tell me what the differences are between the console version and PC version of the TLAD timecyc.dat? But I got to admit, this would be much easier to fix things if I had access to the Open IV teams tool, Black. I doubt they will give me access to the tool but it would help BIG TIME.

I couldn't find any differences with TLaD's timecycle, but I hope GooD gives you the files you requested! This is a very cool little project and I'd like to see it continue. icon14.gif

nkjellman
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#63

Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:38 AM Edited by nkjellman, 03 August 2013 - 09:09 AM.

Hope so too. We got Silent working on stuff for the Renderware GTA titles, I figured, why not give the Rage ones the same treatment.

Edit: Boy Rockstar didn't give two sh*ts about TBOGT, did they? I went to get the missing textures from the IV version of Bahama Mamas, and they are all in higher resolution than the TBOGT ones.

KawakSallas
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#64

Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:00 PM Edited by KawakSallas, 03 August 2013 - 03:12 PM.

OpenIV is open project? If you give proper credits to the OpenIV team, I can't see no problem.
By the way, sice you guys are talking about TBOG issues, I would like some help with a little thing...

First of all, take a look at this http://www.gtaforums...c=436606&st=120


QUOTE
The distance blur thingy does not seem to work for TBoGT, other blur fx works fine though.
Is this because of the greater view of distance in TBoGT? Anyway to fix this?
Everything works fine in TLaD. I'm using EFLC version.

It looks like TBoGT dont have FAR BLUR at all. only near, medium, and motion blur is present.
I found how to fix it, by editing original TBoGT timecyc.dat file.

unrar timecyc.dat file to your ...GTA4EFLC\TBoGT\pc\data\ directory. remember to make backup.

http://rapidshare.co...899/timecyc.rar


To get the alternative graphics tweak working with TBOGT, the timecyc needs that FAR BLUR thing.
Problem, the link of Asires timecyc is down.
Anyone can help?

cp1dell
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#65

Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (Deadly Target @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 07:29)
TBoGT 360 - Sunny 6PM
-snip-

TBoGT PC - Sunny 6PM
-snip-

QUOTE (nkjellman @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 06:33)
Can someone tell me what the differences are between the console version and PC version of the TLAD timecyc.dat? But I got to admit, this would be much easier to fix things if I had access to the Open IV teams tool, Black. I doubt they will give me access to the tool but it would help BIG TIME.

I couldn't find any differences with TLaD's timecycle, but I hope GooD gives you the files you requested! This is a very cool little project and I'd like to see it continue. icon14.gif

Is it possible that the console version is brighter because it's meant to be displayed on a television set, whereas the PC version is on an monitor and because of the better graphics and alternate lighting system the timecyc is a bit darker?

nkjellman
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#66

Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE (KawakSallas @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 15:00)
OpenIV is open project? If you give proper credits to the OpenIV team, I can't see no problem.
By the way, sice you guys are talking about TBOG issues, I would like some help with a little thing...

First of all, take a look at this http://www.gtaforums...c=436606&st=120


QUOTE
The distance blur thingy does not seem to work for TBoGT, other blur fx works fine though.
Is this because of the greater view of distance in TBoGT? Anyway to fix this?
Everything works fine in TLaD. I'm using EFLC version.

It looks like TBoGT dont have FAR BLUR at all. only near, medium, and motion blur is present.
I found how to fix it, by editing original TBoGT timecyc.dat file.

unrar timecyc.dat file to your ...GTA4EFLC\TBoGT\pc\data\ directory. remember to make backup.

http://rapidshare.co...899/timecyc.rar


To get the alternative graphics tweak working with TBOGT, the timecyc needs that FAR BLUR thing.
Problem, the link of Asires timecyc is down.
Anyone can help?

That isn't a bug. Rockstar did that intentionally. It makes the game look more crisp.

Wesser
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#67

Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:38 PM

Most likely, features are cut purposely (I tend to exclude engine's limitations). The bugs are the result of a bad porting.

nkjellman
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#68

Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:16 PM

QUOTE (Wesser @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 19:38)
Most likely, features are cut purposely (I tend to exclude engine's limitations). The bugs are the result of a bad porting.

I think Shadow Density/Night Shadows don't work on cars because it caused bugs, hence no shadows in the Booth Tunnel.

The Clansman
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#69

Posted 03 August 2013 - 09:45 PM

That alternative graphics tweak is very nice. I use a setting that remove the near or full screen blur and the medium blur, leaving only far blur, plus it keeps motion blur. It creates a nice depht of field illusion.

However, not works in Ballad Of Gay Tony. The issue is on the timecyc then? I don't know if there's a easy fix, I mean, I used to play around with EditIV, but I don't know...

nkjellman
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#70

Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:49 PM

Right now I'm trying to sort out the issue with Bahama Mamas.

Unfortunately, I never can get GIMS to import models. It always says the file is encrypted on 3D Max 2012, and 3D Max 2010 always tries to download a configuration file, even when it's been downloaded. Shadows Plugin is the only one that can actually load anything, and that is old so it won't work right. 3D Max is worse than Photoshop, as far as overwhelming the user with many tools, 80% of which they won't ever use. It would be nice if GIMS could break away from 3D Max, and become its own modeling program, designed for GTA IV only so you don't have a million tools there that would have no use for GTA IV modeling. plus you would be able to have a better interface to make the process faster and more efficient.

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#71

Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (nkjellman @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 23:49)
3D Max is worse than Photoshop

Both Photoshop and 3DS Max are fine for me, it's just you who doesn't use them properly and things like that tounge.gif

nkjellman
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#72

Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:35 PM Edited by nkjellman, 04 August 2013 - 07:49 AM.

QUOTE (ManDog @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 23:05)
QUOTE (nkjellman @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 23:49)
3D Max is worse than Photoshop

Both Photoshop and 3DS Max are fine for me, it's just you who doesn't use them properly and things like that tounge.gif

Photoshop works fine. It just has a lot of tools. Now, 3D Max is a bitch.

GIMS is installed, but its useless because it can't import models for some unknown reason. I will try to reinstall it all.

Edit: Wish the GTAForums admins would remove the stupid request timeout when posting that has been happening recently.

Edit: New update. Bahama Mamas texture bug fixed. It turned out that Rockstar made a typo on the water damage texture. Half of the name was missing in the shader section of the OFT lol.
user posted image
Big thanks to Blaster_nl for finding the problem. smile.gif

Now I need to figure out whats going on with the sign. The black outlines of the martini glass with the girl and palm tree disappear at a distance and only the white and pink lights remain.

I'd also like to point out two minor audio bugs in the game that I will look into fixing.
1. One issue is with the NUCA Museum radio commercial. Every once in a while, you hear a tiny buzz sound come out of the right speaker. It happens several times through out it. I believe the issue is in the right side audio channel.
2. The loading screen music in The Ballad of Gay Tony is a little messed up. If you pay attention closely, you may notice small changes in the audio as it plays. At some parts it sounds slightly more muffled. This isn't supposed to happen.

This one isn't really an audio bug but more intentional. For LCHC on TLAD, on the PC version (I think PS3 too), some dialogue is cut. Max Cavalera, (LCHC DJ in TLAD) mentions that Jimmy Gestapo (LCHC DJ in GTA IV) is coming up next, then he complains about him throwing up all over the studio. If you bought TLAD as a DLC, this audio would make sense because after the TLAD portion, the GTA IV portion would play. However on EFLC, it just loops back around and starts playing the TLAD portion, so it wouldn't make sense. This goes to show that ether Rockstar was planning on including the GTA IV songs in EFLC, or that they were not planning on making EFLC, and only releasing them as DLC at the time TLAD came out on the Xbox 360 only as a DLC. Anyways, as this extra dialogue would be irreverent on EFLC, I may decide to include it as an add on.

Also I thought I'd make this clear as well. I am only patching bugs and mistakes Rockstar made when porting the game to PC. I won't fix bugs like glitches where your able to get under the map through holes or inside buildings your not supposed to be in.

Edit: I'm a little suspicious that the stipple.wtd feature exclusive to the PC version is the cause of the Z-Fighting from a distance. The console versions lack the stipple.wtd. Let me explain why I think the stipple.wtd may be at fault for regular models, LODs and SLODS having a fight to the death at a distance. Say you spawn a large object with the Simple Native Trainer. More noticeable up in the sky. When you move away from it, it starts to disappear. Now, if you don't have DexX's stipple, and you got the default one, the model will look like static. I think its more noticeable with Definition On. With DexX's stipple.wtd it fades. Now, if you had a LOD there, technically, the game isn't making the object transparent it self, it is doing it with the stipple.wtd. On the console version, if you ISO mod, and spawn an object, you will notice that it fades. However there is no stipple file on the console. So this means the object is actually fading, and it isn't using a texture to fade. I read somewhere that transparency is the way to remove z-fighting, and the Stipple may just be a filter, and not actually making it transparent.

Tested my theory. The game still relies on the file. If I delete it, the game crashes. If I put a blank one in there, many textures are missing from the game to include your player model. The z-fighting was still there. But I believe it is because the game isn't fading the textures with out relying on the stipple.wtd. Do you guys think this might be a possibility?

MajesticNL
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#73

Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:13 PM

I'm pretty certain stipple isn't involved at all in LODs.

QUOTE
and the Stipple may just be a filter, and not actually making it transparent.


It does make it transparant, if you look at the original texture you will notice it's black and white. Full black means 100% transparency and full white means 0% transparency, then grey is anything in between. Because of all those little dots in this texture, that's the effect you get with it.

nkjellman
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#74

Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:21 PM

QUOTE (Blaster_nl @ Sunday, Aug 4 2013, 16:13)
I'm pretty certain stipple isn't involved at all in LODs.

QUOTE
and the Stipple may just be a filter, and not actually making it transparent.


It does make it transparant, if you look at the original texture you will notice it's black and white. Full black means 100% transparency and full white means 0% transparency, then grey is anything in between. Because of all those little dots in this texture, that's the effect you get with it.

Yes but remember the console doesn't have it. The z-fighting occurs between normal models and LODs.

65536
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#75

Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:38 PM Edited by 65536, 3 weeks ago.

Hi, @nkjellman! You could can try to fix a one dawn bug? I have the PC version of GTA IV, patched it to last version 1.0.7.0 and I encountered a strange bug - while I played the game (I only playing in free roam using a savegames, not doing a missions and the only mod is Simple Native Trainer 6.5), I often receive any weird floating horizontal / vertical objects that aren't supposed to appear. These objects are not solid and Niko can walk through them. For example, when I go into the abandoned factory in Tudor:

On first floor, when I look through window located to west side of the factory next to staircase there are no errors:

tfl3.jpg

But on second floor, when Niko is near the two windows on the north side of the building located near to staircase, where you try look using these windows on most camera positions, the landscape outside gets replaced by these (probably) floating objects:

1aax.jpg

 

czja.jpg

 

On the opposite site of the abandoned factory again on second floor, on south side below the hole of the third floor, there is a single window, as there the bug doesn't appear and there you can see landscape outside normally:
v1tc.jpg

 

blg8.jpg

 

Another place where you can reproduce that bug with a floating objects is to one of the set of the three high enterable +-shaped buildings near Vespucci Circus. If I enter on the most north building on that can climb up all its floors using staircase to its roof (because the other two buildings located south of noted one you can access only the ground floor), I climb one floor after entering its interior, enter the reddish door located little left opposite staircase and enter the room in end, there are two windows - big and small located opposite the room's door. If I stay close to the big window and I rotate the camera to southeast or northwest while Niko stays on that spot, a vertical floating object will appear every time when the camera is in these positions:

50uy.jpg

 

y980.jpg

 

nm7x.jpg

Several times while playing GTA 4, I get these dawn objects like the one shown on last three screenshots and I have no idea what to do to stop them from appearing. dozingoff.gifThis is probably most irritating graphic bug in the game for me. You could can find a fix for it?


nkjellman
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#76

Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:56 PM Edited by nkjellman, 04 August 2013 - 10:12 PM.

Maybe.

They could be caused by one of two things.
1. They are simply pop ins. This is a bug that is on all versions of Rage, on all platforms and can not be fixed. I think it can be reduced by simply playing the game on a faster HD.
2. Its an MLO problem. This could be fixed.

Edit: I need someone to do something for me. Anyone who has the DLC version of TBOGT on the Xbox 360, can you go in the Lost Club House, and tell me if there is a stripper pole in the cage? You can get in there if you go in Free Mode, because in TBOGT free mode, all the doors are unlocked from all three games. NOTE: Needs to be TBOGT DLC for GTA IV, not EFLC,, or TLAD DLC. Why I ask? When I did my EFLC Map Updates mod for GTA IV a while back, I noticed that if I converted the Lost Club House interior from TBOGT, it had no stripper pole in there. The TLAD one did, and the pole is missing in TBOGT.

@Blaster_nl: The flickering objects in the distance occurs when your at the distance where the normal object and the lod are both showing. Normally, its supposed to look like the normal object transitions into the lod, because one gets more transparent, and the other gets less transparent depending on the way your going. However this is handled differently on the PC because of the stipple.wtd. However, I'm not sure if this is the cause of the water flickering.

I found this on fixing a similar issue in Skyrim. Might be able to be applied to GTA IV.
http://forum.step-pr...ead.php?tid=154

Deadly Target
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#77

Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:05 PM Edited by Deadly Target, 04 August 2013 - 11:09 PM.

QUOTE (cp1dell @ Saturday, Aug 3 2013, 18:25)
Is it possible that the console version is brighter because it's meant to be displayed on a television set, whereas the PC version is on an monitor and because of the better graphics and alternate lighting system the timecyc is a bit darker?

That's definitely possible. The 360 version was also released 5 months before the PC & PS3 version though. It could be that Rockstar updated it a bit while working on the other versions. Only way to find out for sure is to see if TBoGT PS3 has the 360 or PC timecycle.

@nkjellman That Bahama Mamas fix makes it look so much better! nice work blaster and nk!

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#78

Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:30 PM Edited by nkjellman, 04 August 2013 - 11:35 PM.

I've come to another conclusion as to fixing the z-fighting issue. Depth perception, or in any case, field of view.

So if you go in the Cinematic camera, you will notice that there is little to no flickering at all. Some cinematic camera modes are zoomed in, well others are zoomed out. I know that the older wide screen fixes that were for GTA III and GTA VC adjusted the field of view, so I'm sure its possible to make an ASI script to do it with an ini to configure it. (No .net script. I don't want the rain bug in interiors. It would go against the goal of the mod.) Now, in GTA IV we know that when you fly higher up, the FOV increases. But if you air break high enough, it goes back to the FOV when your on the ground. Z fighting is worse though because everything is farther away. I think the console version might have a slightly higher FOV, so objects in the distance look slightly farther. I tend to notice that some PC games have a lower FOV than their console version.

Edit: Odd. After minimizing my game, and maximizing it, after using the Cinematic Camera, the Z-Fighting was greatly decreased. However its still there when I use the look behind button.

CHILLI
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#79

Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:59 PM

One thing I'd like to point out is that some things on the fixed vehicles have been changed for the worse.
Those 2 that bug me are:

* Normals for the wheels are messy. This can be noticed when letting the sun or another light shine at the wheels and do a burnout or slowly drive. at certain angles the normal map becomes invisible or inverted, I'm assuming that the mesh normals all point in one direction.

* Sudden crash after player for a while. I pretty much only play online and I know model mods can cause SMPA50/60 to others, but as far as I can tell nobody crashes near me. It's rather the opposit, but I dont get any error codes. Windows simply tells me that the application has stopped working. I have no idea what could cause it but I thought I'd get it out there.

Note: I was only using the vehicle.img, nothing else. Not a single mod apart from that file being replaced.

nkjellman
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#80

Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:27 AM Edited by nkjellman, 05 August 2013 - 01:57 AM.

Any differences between vehicles? Also are you sure that no one else had vehicle mods? I haven't had any crashing in MP and I haven't really noticed what your talking about for the wheels. Can you show a comparison screen of the wheels?

As for the z fighting. I found that it isn't minimizing that reduced it. It was cycling through the camera modes. I do have the first person mod installed, and I have my Negative LOD basis set to Clamp in Nvidia Inspector. I'll have to test some more. But in cinematic cam, z fighting is reduced.

Edit: After doing some testing, I now found out what it is. The hood camera in vehicles is what is reducing z fighting. It still occurs, but much less. The hood camera has a high FOV so objects look further away. After you switch out of the hood camera to 3rd person camera, the z-fighting decreases.

So to fix the z fighting, I suppose a asi script could be a work around. The script would increase the FOV, quickly, then put it back to normal. But here is the thing. The FOV on the hood camera does minimize the z fighting. So I'm thinking that it could go to an even higher setting. It might allow it to work even better and decrease z fighting even more. Now there is a catch to this. The cinematic camera doesn't fix it in normal camera mode. But the hood camera does. So there is a chance the script won't work. Now here is the other issue. It will look retarded if the FOV is increased and goes to normal when you start the game. So it might work if the script has a black texture over the screen when it does it, so it looks like part of the loading screen.

More information about the less z fighting trick. It only works in Helicopters. If you switch the camera to the hood cam in a heli, it will lessen z fighting in 3rd person. However as soon as you exit the heli, the trick will stop working until you enter the hood cam in a helicopter again.

CHILLI
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#81

Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:51 AM Edited by CHILLI, 05 August 2013 - 02:24 AM.

Here you go. let me know if this is too much of a page stretcher
Stallion, APC and Buffalo examples
Dark grey is the neutral color, the light grey is the highlight.
Notice how it lights up weirdly depending on the direction of the light source and its own rotation. That's why I assumed the normals of the tyre are all pointing in one direction.
On the APC picture the sun is nearly coming from straight above. I found it really strange seeing it being dark at the top of the tyrewall instead of the bottom, or it simply doesnt light up at all.

nkjellman
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#82

Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:59 AM Edited by nkjellman, 05 August 2013 - 02:22 AM.

That, I have noticed. But I think if I'm not mistaking, happens on the normal cars too.

And your pic is stretching the page a little bit.

Edit: I'm not an asi script programmer, so I was wondering if someone could make a Field of View editor script. I'd like to do some more testing and see how the FOV affects the z fighting.

CHILLI
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#83

Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:19 AM

Nah, the original vehicles only do it very very slightly, barely noticable unless you look at the reflections as the wheels rotate.
I took a few pictures of the original APC because it's the easiest vehicle to see it on.
user posted image
Notice how the contrast of the light is nowhere near as strong and the shaded side of the centre is always in the same general direction.

nkjellman
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#84

Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:38 AM Edited by nkjellman, 05 August 2013 - 03:36 AM.

So you trying to say that the lighter part, and the darker part of the tires lighting rotate with the tire?

Edit: Now I see it. No matter what I try, nothing seems to fix it.

CHILLI
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#85

Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:46 AM

Well... sort of. I'll try to explain what a Normal in a Mesh is, so here it goes:

A "normal" is the direction of a surface the renderer uses when calculating light and a few other effects.
In a "mesh" these normals are stored in Vertices (Vertex). Here's a picture to illustrate the normals of a correct mesh:
user posted image
The blue lines indicate which direction it will react to light from. If the light comes from the opposit direction it will become dark, while if one line points at a light it will become bright.

So what happens in GTA IV is that the game thinks the normals of the wheels all point in one direction, and not around matching the shape. Even though it is round it will only react to light in one single direction, if it comes from behind it looks inverted.

EDIT: Just saw your post as I was writing this. What program are you using when you are modifying the vehicles?

MajesticNL
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#86

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:24 AM

CHILLI, how much knowledge do you have of this?

This is a line of one vertex from the original APC:

0.92382820 -2.54101600 1.03515600 / 0.00000000 -1.00000000 0.00000000 / 0.00000000 0.00000000 1.00000000 0.00000000 / 36 36 36 36 / 107 107 107 0 / 1.00000000 0.00000000 0.00000000 / 0.49964900 0.55456540 / 0.11933900 0.19316100

Then this is the one from the edited APC, that went through Zmodeler

0.92382820 -2.54101600 1.03515600 / 0.00000000 -1.00000000 0.00000000 / 0.00000000 0.00000000 1.00000000 0.00000000 / 0 0 36 0 / 107 107 107 255 / -0.70703130 0.00000000 -0.70312500 / 0.49964900 0.55456540 / 0.11933900 0.19316100

I highlighted the differences. I know that / 107 107 107 0 / is vertex color, and probably the first 3 are coordinates of the vertex, the rest i have no clue what it is.

CHILLI
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#87

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:39 AM

Well I know how all the vertex normal stuff works but never figured out or found any software that would allow me to edit them myself.
I've noticed that R* tweak their normals to achieve certain effects while keeping the polycounts quite low, like the tiny bevels on the cars where, say, a wheel well sticks out some like on the Banshee.
Also the vehicle deformation screws with the normals to enhance the dents aswell as far as my observations go.

As a side note I also know how to paint normal maps by hand but I'm guessing that's offtopic for the time being lol

MajesticNL
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#88

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:43 AM

Oh, you are talking about normal maps now? Those are unedited, so the problem has to be in the model.

cp1dell
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#89

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:53 AM

Man, I don't know what's up, but ENB completely destroys my FPS. I know it's optional, but I like that it fixes the vehicle reflections.

But geez, the game doesn't even start yet and my FPS gets lowered from 40 to 27 once the Rockstar logos play, and during the menu where you select TLAD or TBoGT. But once the loading screen starts, everything is back to normal, but when I step out of the safehouse I lose ~10 FPS.

I don't understand why my framerate takes such a hit. It's not like ENB is using some crazy effects or anything, right? It's only there to fix the reflections because apparently the vehicle polygons don't line up or something? I don't know, it's really strange.

CHILLI
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#90

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:58 AM

Everything apart from my last sentence was about actual mesh normals, not normal maps.

Anyway, I hope the problem can be solved because, for some reason, visual things like that have the potential to bug me for a loooong time. Like the fact that the original TBOGT cars didnt have functional lights in the first dang place apart from the corona thingy. Was so happy when I found this mod but that normal problem on the wheels really bug me for some reason.




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