199 replies to this topic

[The New Blueguy]

As a male gamer who's been gaming for about 25 years now, this is issue really truly bothered me. I couldn't understand why there wasn't at least one female lead out of the three. Recently in games with Samus Aran, the new take on Lara Croft in Tomb Raider, and dearest to my heart, the female version of Commander Sheppard as played by the amazingly talented Jennifer Hale, I thought we'd see the start of a renaissance for female leads in gaming. Of the games I mentioned, the Mass Effect series in particular looked to champion this movement because both my wife and I felt that not only was "Femshep"'s version of the story the better acted and more convincing of the two (though I have yet to beat ME3 and my wife has done so), I found myself subconsciously feeling like her story was the one Bioware's team wanted to tell, but that their marketing department felt there had to be a male counter part.

What bothers me a bit more is when I hear male gamers make assumptions on coolness and whether or not a feat is believably possible for a female character in comparison to a male. Many times have I seen male and female leads compared like, "you think a girl would be able to fall ten feet, crash through glass and keep shooting all while not flinching?" Newsflash, son... Most men couldn't do such fantastical things either. That's why it's fantasy. Why can't women live vicariously through their own gender-appropriate avatars as us guys have had the luxury of doing for almost three decades?

Circling back GTA V as the topic at hand, one of the funnier responses to such a proposal when specifically applied to the settings and characters of the Grand Theft Auto franchise is, "well, women aren't as interesting. It's not like some soccer mom is gonna go shooting up a bank or some sh*t! How often are women seen as mass murdering psychos?" Well, here's the thing, gentlemen. History has shown that while recorded history doesn't show or portray women as having the killer instinct in numbers, the fact is they have been known to be just as if not more vicious than than male serial killers. Also, a lot of the time, they're just smarter about it than we are.

I remember even posting on GTAV.net and coming up with a plausible backstory of three female protagonists to serve as oppositon to the three known male leads in GTA V where what I would like to see as downloadable content, they would been an opposing team of thieves looking to score a big heist of their own with the two teams eventually clashing over a score. I had one character who was a military wife who had recently lost her partner in Iraq, who had been denied support from the military raising their adopted daughter under the unwritten "don't ask, don't tell" code in regards gay and lesbian members of the military. So her motivation for setting up smaller heists to eventually hit the federal reserve was to get what she felt she and her child were owed because her partner had died for her country.

Cliché? Sure, but it's no less a credible back story than the unsatisfied former criminal, young black former thug or insane lifelong criminal. Heck, why couldn't there be crazy Trevor's female equal? I think those would make for some interesting scenes of the two together.

Look as a male gamer who's been playing and watching games evolve as long as I have, this shouldn't even be an issue in 2013 in my opinion but even if GTA V isn't the game to do it, something needs to change.

[Twiggy123]

Can we not have another one of these threads?

[TH3B055]

I think Rockstar is not ready to make that jump to put a female as the lead character is just that simple.

[Dope_0110]

Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death.

[MaddFool]

I agree on how women can be badass like Elizabeta in IV(her missions were the sh*t) but I couldn't see myself playing as a female.Oh and just wait for all the virgins to hop in here and bitch about how women aren't as bad as men.

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:07)

Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death.

Oh man, don't get me wrong. I'm down with whatever Rockstar decide and my feelings were nothing like that. I just figured why the hell not? It's a change and traditonal players who don't feel that way would have had two other characters to use anyway. It just bugged me a little when I kept seeing people say it couldn't work because she'd be a soccer mom or some crap. So I came up with that character profile off the top of my head and I think it's pretty decent.

Let's not go nuts, I'm not trying to nor do I want to demand anything of Rockstar. I was simply expressing my opinion and not really not looking to convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just looking for actual healthy discussion and while I know there are a lot people on here who will throw out the same tired sexist jokes, I don't mind. There were a small minority of people who took the last topic seriously so while not everyone may want it; I know there are some people on the board willing to be civil in discussing it.

Edited by The New Blueguy, 26 July 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[greenrock]

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 19:15)

QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:07) Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death. Oh man, don't get me wrong. I'm down with whatever Rockstar decide and my feelings were nothing like that. I just figured why the hell not? It's a change and traditonal players who don't feel that way would have had two other characters to use anyway. It just bugged me a little when I kept seeing people say it couldn't work because she'd be a soccer mom or some crap. So I came up with that character profile off the top of my head and I think it's pretty decent. Let's not go nuts, I'm trying to nor do I want to demand anything of Rockstar. I was simply expressing my opinion and not really not looking convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just looking for actual healthy discussion and while I know there are a lot people on here who will throw out the same tired sexist jokes, I don't mind. There were a small minority of people who took the last topic seriously so while not everyone may want it; I know there are some people on the board willing to be civil in discussing it.

because Michael, Trevor and Franklin are more realistic type criminals then any female criminal

[theomenofficial]

Sexist dickheads will ruin this topic like they always do.
I fully support a female protagonist.

[Ermac.]

inb4kitchenjokes

I'm betting that the next GTA will feature a female protag. It only seems like the next step for GTA.

[TakinThyBacon]

Do we really need this topic again? Nobody cares, its all been said before here on these forums

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (greenrock @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:18)

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 19:15) QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:07) Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death. Oh man, don't get me wrong. I'm down with whatever Rockstar decide and my feelings were nothing like that. I just figured why the hell not? It's a change and traditonal players who don't feel that way would have had two other characters to use anyway. It just bugged me a little when I kept seeing people say it couldn't work because she'd be a soccer mom or some crap. So I came up with that character profile off the top of my head and I think it's pretty decent. Let's not go nuts, I'm trying to nor do I want to demand anything of Rockstar. I was simply expressing my opinion and not really not looking convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just looking for actual healthy discussion and while I know there are a lot people on here who will throw out the same tired sexist jokes, I don't mind. There were a small minority of people who took the last topic seriously so while not everyone may want it; I know there are some people on the board willing to be civil in discussing it. because Michael, Trevor and Franklin are more realistic type criminals then any female criminal

Trust me, that's not entirely true. As a matter of fact the exact description I gave was based on a true story about a woman in that exact situation. She was in a lesbian relationship raising their adopted two year old daughter and her partner was killed in Afghanistan. The bank foreclosed on the house because even though they were legally married in another state, it wasn't recognized in her home state. The woman then put together a job to rob the bank in retaliation. It was the basis for an episode of Criminal Minds I believe except that they changed it so that she was manipulated into it by the psycho of the week in that episode.

[Backfire6]

QUOTE (theomenofficial @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 11:19)

Sexist dickheads will ruin this topic like they always do. I fully support a female protagonist.

Same.
The last topic about this was spammed to death with begets

[Twiggy123]

No, I'm serious. There have been two seperate topics about this already. Leave it alone we have discussed it to death already.

[Dope_0110]

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 19:15)

QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:07) Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death. Oh man, don't get me wrong. I'm down with whatever Rockstar decide and my feelings were nothing like that. I just figured why the hell not? It's a change and traditonal players who don't feel that way would have had two other characters to use anyway. It just bugged me a little when I kept seeing people say it couldn't work because she'd be a soccer mom or some crap. So I came up with that character profile off the top of my head and I think it's pretty decent. Let's not go nuts, I'm trying to nor do I want to demand anything of Rockstar. I was simply expressing my opinion and not really not looking convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just looking for actual healthy discussion and while I know there are a lot people on here who will throw out the same tired sexist jokes, I don't mind. There were a small minority of people who took the last topic seriously so while not everyone may want it; I know there are some people on the board willing to be civil in discussing it.

Here's a simple though:

When more females are actually working on the games, and most of all in the writers and producers department, that's when there will be more female protagonists. At Rockstar you have a standard team of guys who come together and when a couple of guys are trying to come up with a story about a criminal chances are high that they will come up with a male criminal.
They've seen a lot of criminals in popular culture, plus they feel they can understand a guy better being that they're all guys.

When a team of women sits down to write a story for a game, chances will be much higher for a female protag to come to life.

[Crashbombs]

I'm sticking with my theory that the fourth character slot is for another protagonist. I also think it will be a female.

And before anyone says "The fourth slot, is for your online character." I have not seen that confirmed, and until the online trailer comes out it is just as much a guess as what I have suggested.

[Polish_Trucker]

Bit late for a female protag now.. since there is already 3.. maybe DLC tho

[Alenko]

I'm all for Femshep, in fact, I never play as Male Shepard but I can't stomach the idea of a female lead in a GTA game. It just wouldn't seem right or believable. Can't people just make their slutty female lead on the next SRIV?

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:34)

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 19:15) QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:07) Protagonists should be determined by the story and not by ''oh we've had 10 games with male protags, next one should be female'' or ''oh, well with three protags we should make one female''. Story determines a protag. That's how it should be. They obviously get a lot of their inspiration from movies, and I'll name 10 heist or gang movies of the top of my head, and each and every one will have a male lead role or roles. So no wonder. And this has been discussed to death. Oh man, don't get me wrong. I'm down with whatever Rockstar decide and my feelings were nothing like that. I just figured why the hell not? It's a change and traditonal players who don't feel that way would have had two other characters to use anyway. It just bugged me a little when I kept seeing people say it couldn't work because she'd be a soccer mom or some crap. So I came up with that character profile off the top of my head and I think it's pretty decent. Let's not go nuts, I'm trying to nor do I want to demand anything of Rockstar. I was simply expressing my opinion and not really not looking convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just looking for actual healthy discussion and while I know there are a lot people on here who will throw out the same tired sexist jokes, I don't mind. There were a small minority of people who took the last topic seriously so while not everyone may want it; I know there are some people on the board willing to be civil in discussing it. Here's a simple though: When more females are actually working on the games, and most of all in the writers and producers department, that's when there will be more female protagonists. At Rockstar you have a standard team of guys who come together and when a couple of guys are trying to come up with a story about a criminal chances are high that they will come up with a male criminal. They've seen a lot of criminals in popular culture, plus they feel they can understand a guy better being that they're all guys. When a team of women sits down to write a story for a game, chances will be much higher for a female protag to come to life.

I get what you're saying because I've taken game design and a male is always the first thing that came up in our group discussion of what type of game we'd make but I kind of feel like that mentality stunts the growth of the industry in the long run. Imagine if Sakamoto and Miyamoto said, let the women create female characters instead when creating Metroid. Or if Lara Croft was just another macho Indiana Jones rip off. Or if Bioware decided to make MaleShep the face of Mass Effect without giving the option for creating a female character?

A lot of things would be different in the industry right now. While guys in 1996 might have just went 'Mmmm... 3D tits!', Lara Croft actually inspired a lot of women to get into game design. Even Amy Henning at Naughty Dog played a huge part in creating Nathan Drake and the Legacy Kain universe.

[carl turtle]

women can't even hold a gun, how would they kill a lot of mobsters and rob banks?

[SlapEmLikeFloyd]

Why are you feminists trying to ruin the game ? Why dont you go make your own f*cking game, dont try and f*ck up everyone else's experience with your stupid "women are equal bullsh*t" GTFOH. You're not even smart enough to know those female characters you talked about were starring in fantasy games, not games based on real life get a proper education before you start posting dumb bullsh*t fool, and stay away from TV.

[hesgone]

QUOTE (carl turtle @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 19:56)

women can't even hold a gun, how would they kill a lot of mobsters and rob banks?

If your mother can't do that it doesn't mean other women can't either.

[03silverbullet]

i'd play a gta game as a female protag. i have no problems with it.

i never got into the tomb raider series, but i liked the vita version of AC3 with the chic.

women can be just as destructive as men. after all, it comes down to creators and writers of the game.

[davetopper]

Might as well kill it now Kirsty, you know how these raging adolescent hormones get. OP, this topic has been tried many times. They all end the same, badly.

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (davetopper @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 15:15)

Might as well kill it now Kirsty, you know how these raging adolescent hormones get. OP, this topic has been tried many times. They all end the same, badly.

It's all good, I'm just ignore the negative, sexist, ignorant people. I don't expect nor am I trying to get people to agree with me so they can rage all they want. I won't give them the time of day.

[needhaje]

QUOTE (SlapEmLikeFloyd @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:11)

Why are you feminists trying to ruin the game ? Why dont you go make your own f*cking game, dont try and f*ck up everyone else's experience with your stupid "women are equal bullsh*t" GTFOH. You're not even smart enough to know those female characters you talked about were starring in fantasy games, not games based on real life get a proper education before you start posting dumb bullsh*t fool, and stay away from TV.

God f*cking damn it. This is a legitimate discussion. Get your blatantly incorrect and biased opinion out of here.

[davetopper]

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:19)

QUOTE (davetopper @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 15:15) Might as well kill it now Kirsty, you know how these raging adolescent hormones get. OP, this topic has been tried many times. They all end the same, badly. It's all good, I'm just ignore the negative, sexist, ignorant people. I don't expect nor am I trying to get people to agree with me so they can rage all they want. I won't give them the time of day.

You never can tell. Me I am all for it. In all actuality as I have mentioned in all these threads on this topic that the gal from "My name is Earl", or a character like her would have been a hoot.

Michael's been done, Franklin has been done, Trevor can be anyone. But a tough as nails good looking male member crunching of the opposite sex is new territory.

But the kiddies just aren't ready.

[Alenko]

QUOTE (SlapEmLikeFloyd @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:11)

Why are you feminists trying to ruin the game ? Why dont you go make your own f*cking game, dont try and f*ck up everyone else's experience with your stupid "women are equal bullsh*t" GTFOH. You're not even smart enough to know those female characters you talked about were starring in fantasy games, not games based on real life get a proper education before you start posting dumb bullsh*t fool, and stay away from TV.

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (03silverbullet @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 15:12)

i'd play a gta game as a female protag. i have no problems with it. i never got into the tomb raider series, but i liked the vita version of AC3 with the chic. women can be just as destructive as men. after all, it comes down to creators and writers of the game.

Trust me man, if you played any of the Mass Effect series as the female Commander Sheppard, it's a totally different experience. Personally, I feel like the female version of the story is the better story. There are subtle changes in how you respond to the other characters and how they respond to you yet your character seems totally believable. I believe it could be the same for GTA with the right approach to the character. Good voice direction (which Rockstar already has a great history of) and the right actor. And I think Jennifer Hale would do a great job as a female GTA lead.

[Sleepy187.]

QUOTE (Crashbombs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 22:34)

I'm sticking with my theory that the fourth character slot is for another protagonist. I also think it will be a female. And before anyone says "The fourth slot, is for your online character." I have not seen that confirmed, and until the online trailer comes out it is just as much a guess as what I have suggested.

Just because YOU have not seen it confirmed it doesn't mean it wasn't, it was also exained by reviewers and especially in the latest GI news that the fourth slot is for MP, they (R*) specifically explained what is the 4th slot, go google it because i am on my hpone and I can't be bothered.

Your theory is really... With all due respect, dumb.

[The New Blueguy]

QUOTE (davetopper @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 15:24)

QUOTE (The New Blueguy @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:19) QUOTE (davetopper @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 15:15) Might as well kill it now Kirsty, you know how these raging adolescent hormones get. OP, this topic has been tried many times. They all end the same, badly. It's all good, I'm just ignore the negative, sexist, ignorant people. I don't expect nor am I trying to get people to agree with me so they can rage all they want. I won't give them the time of day. You never can tell. Me I am all for it. In all actuality as I have mentioned in all these threads on this topic that the gal from "My name is Earl", or a character like her would have been a hoot. Michael's been done, Franklin has been done, Trevor can be anyone. But a tough as nails good looking male member crunching of the opposite sex is new territory. But the kiddies just aren't ready.

When I had come up with the character description as I have it in the original post, my wife wondered why I'd have to change the character(s) so speifically. Like why couldn't it work the exact same way, same character descriptions but it's three girls named Mickey (Michelle), Frankie (Francesca) and Tina. I mean I think of how much more messed up that random scene would have sounded if it was a crazy chick named Tina waking up on a beach with a bunch of dead bikers?