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Question about diferent universe

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HugoMoreira
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#1

Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

Different universe?How?Because GTA 5 it's in HD and SA int's?Why can't CJ be on GTA 5? "He dont exists in HD universe" don't exist?Because they are pretending make us think that we never played in SA?Or they can't make CJ in HD?I don't get it O.o

NikoBellic1993
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#2

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE (HugoMoreira @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 21:44)
Different universe?How?Because GTA 5 it's in HD and SA int's?Why can't CJ be on GTA 5? "He dont exists in HD universe" don't exist?Because they are pretending make us think that we never played in SA?Or they can't make CJ in HD?I don't get it O.o

No,it's because it wouldn't make sense. GTA IV didn't have any references to the Leones or the like so why should V do it ?

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#3

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:05 PM

I hope you are trolling, you can't be this stupid suicidal.gif

Garganda
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#4

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

I personally think it is kind of stupid to have to pretend that none of the previous events of GTA III, VC, and SA happened within this "universe"

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#5

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

Different eras, different city layouts, different console generation.

Really it was just Rockstars choice and I think it was a good one. If SA and V where in the same era GTA V would be influenced by it. This way GTA 5 can be it's on game and can ignore the legacy CJs story might have left behind.

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#6

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

I think it's kinda dumb as well, but it is what it is.

jordanator88
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#7

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE (NikoBellic1993 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:04)
QUOTE (HugoMoreira @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 21:44)
Different universe?How?Because GTA 5 it's in HD and SA int's?Why can't CJ be on GTA 5? "He dont exists in HD universe" don't exist?Because they are pretending make us think that we never played in SA?Or they can't make CJ in HD?I don't get it O.o

No,it's because it wouldn't make sense. GTA IV didn't have any references to the Leones or the like so why should V do it ?

GTA 4 had references to CJ....

RoadRunner71
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#8

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE (jordanator88 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:15)
QUOTE (NikoBellic1993 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:04)
QUOTE (HugoMoreira @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 21:44)
Different universe?How?Because GTA 5 it's in HD and SA int's?Why can't CJ be on GTA 5? "He dont exists in HD universe" don't exist?Because they are pretending make us think that we never played in SA?Or they can't make CJ in HD?I don't get it O.o

No,it's because it wouldn't make sense. GTA IV didn't have any references to the Leones or the like so why should V do it ?

GTA 4 had references to CJ....

Afaik they were just Easter Eggs...

GTA-Addicted
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#9

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:21 PM

PS2 era GTA's were cartoony, over the top
Modern "next gen" era is more realistic, it isn't the same it was on PS2

An over the top PS2 protag would not fit in the GTAs we have nowdays
Afaik, the catch is there

HARBUJAHN THE GREATEST
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#10

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:24 PM

flogging a dead horse comes to mind only cameo appearances or radio,mentioned

meson1
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#11

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:24 PM

Two ways to look at it. Both are valid:
  1. Cities are different. Cities from the 3D era and the HD era cannot be reconciled because they are too different. The locations where 3D era events took place don't exist in the HD versions of the cities. Therefore the 3D events never happened and therefore the participants in those events don't exist either.
  2. Rockstar wanted to reboot. Fresh start. New stories. 3D era story is done. HD era here to stay ... for now. Get used to it.

NikoBellic1993
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#12

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE (GTA Adicted @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:21)
PS2 era GTA's were cartoony, over the top
Modern "next gen" era is more realistic, it isn't the same it was on PS2

An over the top PS2 protag would not fit in the GTAs we have nowdays
Afaik, the catch is there

Also what these people don't seem to get is that R* is sort of rebooting the franchise so it doesn't become stale that's why there are different universes and characters.You have to move forward to progress not stay the same .
Edit:The guy above already said it before me.

Gunslinger_GK
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#13

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:43 PM

Two main reasons

1) They can't make characters live up from 3D era to HD era, because of their style and character design very cartonnish in 3D era while realistic in the HD era.
They would have to redesign the characters and you would'nt even be able to recognize them.
Just look at the differences between Claude Speed and the HD characters, HD Claude would not even look like the original.

2) Cities are different. How could you explain that a 3D character used to live in one version of the City and then drop him in the HD one that has nothing to do with the original.

Then it's easier to tell new stories this way, Rockstar can create a new set-up that deserve their new ideas.

Edit: the two guys above me said it before me haha

Chekoloco
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#14

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

SH***T!! Because Dan and Sam Houser don´t wanna make it!!!

Angelic
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#15

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE (death killer860 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:05)
I hope you are trolling, you can't be this stupid suicidal.gif

Leave him alone, he's just asking a question.

HugoMoreira
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#16

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:06 PM

QUOTE (Mariselia @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:50)
QUOTE (death killer860 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:05)
I hope you are trolling, you can't be this stupid suicidal.gif

Leave him alone, he's just asking a question.

Gracias hermano smile.gif no se porque esta gente es tan ignorante -.-

Thanks bro smile.gif i don't know why there are so many ignorant people -.-

jordanator88
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#17

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Gunslinger_GK @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:43)
Two main reasons

1) They can't make characters live up from 3D era to HD era, because of their style and character design very cartonnish in 3D era while realistic in the HD era.
They would have to redesign the characters and you would'nt even be able to recognize them.
Just look at the differences between Claude Speed and the HD characters, HD Claude would not even look like the original.

2) Cities are different. How could you explain that a 3D character used to live in one version of the City and then drop him in the HD one that has nothing to do with the original.

Then it's easier to tell new stories this way, Rockstar can create a new set-up that deserve their new ideas.

Edit: the two guys above me said it before me haha

Going by this logic metal gear solid 4 shouldn't exist.....

ivarblaauw
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#18

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:11 PM

okay simply said:
there are 3 universes:
- The 2D (GTA 1, GTA 2)
- The 3D SD (GTA III, GTA VC, GTA SA)
- The 3D HD (GTA IV, GTA IV EFLC, GTA V)
(I haven't included GTA London, GTA CW and GTA LC stories, never played those)

2D enough said,
3D SD: Cartoony, not realistic world etc. only fun and havoc.
3D HD: not cartoony, serious input, based on realistic countryside and cities. Based on real events.

Angelic
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#19

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (HugoMoreira @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:06)
QUOTE (Mariselia @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:50)
QUOTE (death killer860 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:05)
I hope you are trolling, you can't be this stupid suicidal.gif

Leave him alone, he's just asking a question.

Gracias hermano smile.gif no se porque esta gente es tan ignorante -.-

Thanks bro smile.gif i don't know why there are so many ignorant people -.-

Soy una mujer, pero eres bienvenido anuj_cop.gif

Lock N' Stock
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#20

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:30 PM Edited by Gst0395, 23 July 2013 - 11:34 PM.

QUOTE (Gunslinger_GK @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:43)
1) They can't make characters live up from 3D era to HD era, because of their style and character design very cartonnish in 3D era while realistic in the HD era.
They would have to redesign the characters and you would'nt even be able to recognize them.

Well going by that logic, how come GTA IV and Chinatown Wars are in the same timeline yet the character designs in both games have different art styles? That part just doesn't make sense to me.

That being said though, the only things that connect these "universes" together though is placenames, fictional brands (Sprunk, Cluckin Bell e.g) and radio personalities (Lazlow). Other than that, their timelines are pretty much separate. I don't know why Rockstar did this, but I'm used to it by now.

man dragon
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#21

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:36 PM Edited by man dragon, 23 July 2013 - 11:38 PM.

QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:30)
Well going by that logic, how come GTA IV and Chinatown Wars are in the same timeline yet the character designs in both games have different art styles? That part just doesn't make sense to me.

Chinatown Wars is still set in HD Liberty City. As far as I know, none of the characters cross over anyway, which means their design and art style doesn't really matter.

2001:

user posted image

2012:

user posted image

What I'm trying to illustrate here, is that characters look completely different after a decade of graphical improvement anyway. If we were to see a modern Tommy Vercetti, he'd likely look like Michael (but about 20 years older).

Lock N' Stock
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#22

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (man dragon @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:36)
Chinatown Wars is still set in HD Liberty City. As far as I know, none of the characters cross over anyway, which means their design and art style doesn't really matter.

I suppose you're right. I didn't understand why GTA IV characters didn't appear in Chinatown Wars, even if the character designs were different. Chinatown Wars is definitely part of the HD Universe canon though. The use of GTA IV's Liberty City and names of CW characters on the LCPD database in IV confirm that. It plays more like a 3D Universe game though, considering all the crazy weapons you can obtain and a sheer lack of realism compared to GTA IV.

Gunslinger_GK
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#23

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:51 PM Edited by Gunslinger_GK, 23 July 2013 - 11:54 PM.

QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:30)
QUOTE (Gunslinger_GK @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 22:43)
1) They can't make characters live up from 3D era to HD era, because of their style and character design very cartonnish in 3D era while realistic in the HD era.
They would have to redesign the characters and you would'nt even be able to recognize them.

Well going by that logic, how come GTA IV and Chinatown Wars are in the same timeline yet the character designs in both games have different art styles? That part just doesn't make sense to me.

That being said though, the only things that connect these "universes" together though is placenames, fictional brands (Sprunk, Cluckin Bell e.g) and radio personalities (Lazlow). Other than that, their timelines are pretty much separate. I don't know why Rockstar did this, but I'm used to it by now.

Well, because you don't see any characters from IV in CW and vice versa. This is an exception.
They are set in the same timeline, share the same brands, vehicules but this is only possible because the characters never cross.
Chinatown Wars was developped between TLAD and TBOGT so it made sense to include it in the IV Timeline.

+CW is more like a spin-off than a canonic episode.
Still some minor details differs between IV and CW, like radios or Alderney missing in CW, but since they share a lot more, we assume they're set in the same universe because they never cross so the storylines/set up never interfere with each other.

Flo089
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#24

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:11 AM Edited by Flo089, 24 July 2013 - 01:10 AM.

Who says that the "old universe" does no longer exist?
Or that CJ never have lived?

The city got bigger and much more detailed, but there are also a lot of things which stayed the same.
Rockstar blinks this question with setting up a new story without erasing the old one.
The Grove Street Families won't be the only thing that made it into the new game i think.
The storyline of GTA SA is based 20 years ago.
That's a long time and many things could have changed.
And that's also the reason why their won't be any character from san andreas in GTA V.
They would be nearly 50 years old now or even older.
CJ and the other characters could have died years ago, moved away or spend their old days peaceful somewhere in Los Santos/Liberty/Vice City.
And although CJ did some big things in the past, they weren't that big, that the effects would still last over 20 years since then. Or that the people in the present would be talking about it all the time.
Rockstar gives the player himself the chance to make up what happened in the meanwhile…

Please excuse my bad english. biggrin.gif
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#25

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:16 AM

QUOTE (Gunslinger_GK @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:51)
Well, because you don't see any characters from IV in CW and vice versa. This is an exception.
They are set in the same timeline, share the same brands, vehicules but this is only possible because the characters never cross.
Chinatown Wars was developped between TLAD and TBOGT so it made sense to include it in the IV Timeline.

+CW is more like a spin-off than a canonic episode.
Still some minor details differs between IV and CW, like radios or Alderney missing in CW, but since they share a lot more, we assume they're set in the same universe because they never cross so the storylines/set up never interfere with each other.

That does actually make perfect sense, thanks for clearing that up. Come to think of it, maybe it would be a bit awkward to see GTA IV and CW characters cross over with the different art styles they inhabit. This "universe" talk is interesting. GrandTheftWiki has an interesting page clearing this up.

What about non-GTA Rockstar games as well like Manhunt? That game does share brands, vehicle models and other easter eggs that seem to link it to GTA's 3D Universe in a way, as well as Carcer City's mention in several GTA games.

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#26

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Wednesday, Jul 24 2013, 00:16)
QUOTE (Gunslinger_GK @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:51)
Well, because you don't see any characters from IV in CW and vice versa. This is an exception.
They are set in the same timeline, share the same brands, vehicules but this is only possible because the characters never cross.
Chinatown Wars was developped between TLAD and TBOGT so it made sense to include it in the IV Timeline.

+CW is more like a spin-off than a canonic episode.
Still some minor details differs between IV and CW, like radios or Alderney missing in CW, but since they share a lot more, we assume they're set in the same universe because they never cross so the storylines/set up never interfere with each other.

That does actually make perfect sense, thanks for clearing that up. Come to think of it, maybe it would be a bit awkward to see GTA IV and CW characters cross over with the different art styles they inhabit. This "universe" talk is interesting. GrandTheftWiki has an interesting page clearing this up.

What about non-GTA Rockstar games as well like Manhunt? That game does share brands, vehicle models and other easter eggs that seem to link it to GTA's 3D Universe in a way, as well as Carcer City's mention in several GTA games.

Yes Carcer City is part of the GTA Universe (3D Era). As you said Carcer is mentionned several times in GTA 3 and IV, even in San Andreas.
3D Models from San Andreas were even used in Manhunt.

So Manhunt can count as a GTA Spin-off.

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#27

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:13 AM

Sigh, you guys can make the most simple thing so complicated.

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#28

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (Flo089 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 20:11)
Who says that the "old universe" does no longer exist?
Or that CJ and Claude never have lived?

There are no evidences in GTA IV which prove that…
The cities got bigger and much more detailed, but there are also a lot of things which stayed the same.
At least in Los Santos…
Rockstar blinks this question with setting up a new story without erasing the old one.
The Grove Street Families won't be the only thing that made it into the new game i think.
Don't forget, that the storyline of GTA SA is based 20 years ago.
That's a long time and many things could have changed.
And that's also the reason why their won't be any character from san andreas in GTA V.
They would be nearly 50 years old now or even older.
CJ, Claude, Tommy, etc. could have died years ago, moved away or spend their old days peaceful somewhere in Los Santos/Liberty/Vice City.
And although CJ did some big things in the past, they weren't that big, that the effects would still last over 20 years since then. Or that the people in the present would be talking about it all the time.
Rockstar gives the player himself the chance to make up what happened in the meanwhile…

Please excuse my bad english.  biggrin.gif



Because Rockstar said so. It's a different universe where none of the major character of the GTA III era existed in the "HD Universe's" world. GTA IV was essentially a reboot of the series.

QUOTE
There are many references to GTAIII characters and brands (El Burro graffiti in LC for example) in GTAIV, but do any characters (other than Lazlow) actually exist within both 'universes'? Is that where Donald Love went? Did he hop dimensions into the GTAIV universe?! Plot twist!! Are the two universes completely separate? I understand it'd make almost no sense having two Liberty City's but is there any way we'll see characters from GTAIII return? GTAIV has some amazing characters, but some of the characters in the III era are just unforgettable.

Rockstar says:
El Burro is referenced as he was also referenced in GTA 1, so it felt appropriate that he should cross “universes” – the “universes” are the worlds interpreted at different definitions, 2d, 3d and high definition, so we felt brands and radio / back ground characters would exist in both, but 3 dimensional characters would not. This is the logic (as far as it could be considered logical) behind it – so no, we don’t believe any GTA3 characters could exist in the GTA4 universe.



http://www.rockstarg...claude-dar.html



The GTA III era is over and has been for seven years now with the release of Vice City Stories. People need to get over it.

QUOTE (man dragon @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 19:36)
QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 23:30)
Well going by that logic, how come GTA IV and Chinatown Wars are in the same timeline yet the character designs in both games have different art styles? That part just doesn't make sense to me.

Chinatown Wars is still set in HD Liberty City. As far as I know, none of the characters cross over anyway, which means their design and art style doesn't really matter.

2001:

user posted image

2012:

user posted image

What I'm trying to illustrate here, is that characters look completely different after a decade of graphical improvement anyway. If we were to see a modern Tommy Vercetti, he'd likely look like Michael (but about 20 years older).


I dunno I imagine Tommy would be harder looking, given the tech advancements he'd probably look more like Ray Liotta.

The main reason for Max's changes in appearance from MP1 to MP2 to MP3 were budget and creative. Technology of course had a role but in each game they had someone else as the "face model", though the voice remained consistent. It took until MP3 and Rockstar deciding to have James McCaffrey do both where as in MP1 Max's face was modeled after Sam Lake due to Remedy not having the budget to hire someone outside the company to do it and MP2 Remedy used another guy to give Max the rugged look they wanted but they're undoubtedly the same universe.

The universe of the GTA III era "3D Universe" games simply doesn't fit the "HD Universe" and its general tone.




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