Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

DC Cinematic Universe (Batman, Supes, Aquaman, and more)

2,053 replies to this topic
Leftist Bastard
  • Leftist Bastard

    Like tears in rain

  • Members
  • Joined: 3 weeks ago
  • Syria

#2041

Posted 2 weeks ago

It might be slightly unfair I suppose, when it comes to both dissent and praise but in the end a director's job is to use all the pieces to make a great cohesive whole. Snyder should have seen the problems and tried to repair what was broken.

 

Also I think BvS is hot garbage outside of Affleck but I actually liked the Martha moment. It made sense to me.

  • Natz_83 likes this

darthYENIK
  • darthYENIK

    Godfather

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2002
  • United-States
  • Best Poster [Movies/TV] 2016
    Best Poster [Movies/TV] 2015
    Best Poster [Movies/TV] 2014
    Most Knowledgeable [Movies/TV] 2013

#2042

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by darthYENIK, 2 weeks ago.

I still find it insane that they made Batman kill. POOF one of the most important parts of his character, crucial to his morality and so many facets of his character and the world of Batman just gone for a bit more edge. This is not an Elseworlds scenario or anything either, its the one we're stuck with for the duration of this DCU!

Supposedly he kills because he's lost his way. Jason Todd or whichever Robin was killed by Joker, and he's gone apesh*t on crime ever since. Which is something that he does when a Robin dies. He goes ballistic on crime, and goes overboard, generally stopping at killing. But, BvS does a terrible job of pointing that out, and it's an arc that isn't resolved by the end of the movie, which makes Batman just look homicidal. He's killing killers so it's not as bad as it looks, but Batman should be better than that, and if he's going overboard on crime fighting, he needs to at least acknowledge that, or have Alfred tell him that, or have something to point out very blatantly to the audience that he's lost his way, and isn't just always a killer.

Edit: as for Snyder taking the heat, as the director, it's his job to look at the script and translate it to film. That includes seeing something like the "Martha" moment and realizing that it's a horribly tacky and thin excuse for Batman and Superman to find a balance, or at least make it work with proper dialogue that takes away tackiness. The director is the right person to blame for bad filmmaking 99% of the time.
  • The Deadite likes this

Leftist Bastard
  • Leftist Bastard

    Like tears in rain

  • Members
  • Joined: 3 weeks ago
  • Syria

#2043

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

I still find it insane that they made Batman kill. POOF one of the most important parts of his character, crucial to his morality and so many facets of his character and the world of Batman just gone for a bit more edge. This is not an Elseworlds scenario or anything either, its the one we're stuck with for the duration of this DCU!

Supposedly he kills because he's lost his way. Jason Todd or whichever Robin was killed by Joker, and he's gone apesh*t on crime ever since. Which is something that he does when a Robin dies. He goes ballistic on crime, and goes overboard, generally stopping at killing. But, BvS does a terrible job of pointing that out, and it's an arc that isn't resolved by the end of the movie, which makes Batman just look homicidal. He's killing killers so it's not as bad as it looks, but Batman should be better than that, and if he's going overboard on crime fighting, he needs to at least acknowledge that, or have Alfred tell him that, or have something to point out very blatantly to the audience that he's lost his way, and isn't just always a killer.

Edit: as for Snyder taking the heat, as the director, it's his job to look at the script and translate it to film. That includes seeing something like the "Martha" moment and realizing that it's a horribly tacky and thin excuse for Batman and Superman to find a balance, or at least make it work with proper dialogue that takes away tackiness. The director is the right person to blame for bad filmmaking 99% of the time.

 

I get that its meant to be him losing his way and what not but that's just not how you should introduce your Batman. Maybe down the line in the DCU that could have been interesting to see but him not killing is just so important to him, I feel. So many interesting moral dilemmas are raised by his reluctance to kill that are just gone when he goes psycho. 


Zello
  • Zello

    Hired gun

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#2044

Posted 2 weeks ago

http://www.ign.com/a...and-johns-draft

 

Well umm I guess...

Spoiler

Lamarz
  • Lamarz

    Definitely Maybe

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Feb 2016
  • Brazil

#2045

Posted 2 weeks ago

BvS doesn't even seem to be a movie to me. It's just easter eggs, character presentation and cinematic universe preparation stuff. Batman and Superman only fight because they have to. The "Martha" thing makes sense but it was poorly executed in my opinion. The way it came out seemed ridiculous.

It's a shame because the movie had a lot of potential. I seriously hope that the DC team is going to get things straight for the Justice League film.


gtaoplayer
  • gtaoplayer

    null

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2016
  • United-States

#2046

Posted 2 weeks ago

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible
  • That Guy There, SmokesWithCigs and Natz_83 like this

HaythamKenway
  • HaythamKenway

    Rebellions are built on hope

  • Zaibatsu
  • Joined: 30 Jan 2012
  • Czech-Republic

#2047

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by HaythamKenway, 2 weeks ago.

Supposedly he kills because he's lost his way. Jason Todd or whichever Robin was killed by Joker, and he's gone apesh*t on crime ever since. Which is something that he does when a Robin dies. He goes ballistic on crime, and goes overboard, generally stopping at killing. But, BvS does a terrible job of pointing that out, and it's an arc that isn't resolved by the end of the movie, which makes Batman just look homicidal. He's killing killers so it's not as bad as it looks, but Batman should be better than that, and if he's going overboard on crime fighting, he needs to at least acknowledge that, or have Alfred tell him that, or have something to point out very blatantly to the audience that he's lost his way, and isn't just always a killer.


Edit: as for Snyder taking the heat, as the director, it's his job to look at the script and translate it to film. That includes seeing something like the "Martha" moment and realizing that it's a horribly tacky and thin excuse for Batman and Superman to find a balance, or at least make it work with proper dialogue that takes away tackiness. The director is the right person to blame for bad filmmaking 99% of the time.

I think I'll disagree here. Snyder messed a lot of things up, but Batman's arc wasn't one of them, imo. He had Alfred as the voice of reason and conscience throughout the entire movie, we are told from multiple sources that Batman is escalating his war and while Batman doesn't really have an overt moment of clarity and self-reflection like, say, Black Panther did in CA:CW, we can clearly see he's haunted and out of his element throughout the entire picture. I never felt the need for him to turn to the camera and explicitly state what goes on in his head like T'Challa does.

 

But I can see how that might have been insufficient. The problem is similar as with Clark himself in MoS, as I wrote about here before. Snyder puts too much stock in the audience translating their preexisting notions of these characters onto his adaptations, instead of doing the hard work of building them from the ground up. Clark suffered because of how choppy MoS was and also because of how the theme of his fathers grooming him into becoming Superman overshadowed his own personal character development and motivations. He was, part intentionally, part unintentionally, a blank slate for Jor-El, Pa Kent and the audience to project onto. And in BvS he's just a supporting character in The Batman Show 2015.

 

As I've said, I think that BvS's Bats is executed well overall, but true, the foundations of his character are shaky and fasttracked. We know that Bruce is at his lowest here, but we never see how that is different from the normal. We never saw this depiction of Batman. Snyder rushes straight into the territory that Nolan ventured in his final movie - after hours worth of careful character building. We know "Batman", we know how "Batman" should act, but we don't know this Batman. And that's the important bit. Snyder counts on the audience being generally acquainted with Batman's character and carrying that knowledge over to his movie and then just casually subverts everything we expect without properly elaborating on just what makes this version of Batman tick. That can be terribly jarring and misleading.

 

I really don't think Batman Begins 2.0 would be the solution, we don't need to see that all over again and like I said, overall I was satisfied with the result, but a movie with a premise like BvS was just a hard place to introduce a brand new version of Batman.


IDredMan
  • IDredMan

    Dred

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 May 2013
  • None

#2048

Posted 2 weeks ago

http://www.ign.com/a...and-johns-draft
 
Well umm I guess...

Spoiler


It might not be THAT bad.
You'd be surprised how much easier it is to edit/rewrite than it is to write from scratch.

That's why scripts take about 2 or 3 months to write.
And why Suicide Squad and Fant4stic had sh*tty f*cking scripts. The scripts were written in 4 weeks and 3 weeks (If my Google sources were correct), respectively. That's not even enough time to get a first draft out.

And about who to blame.
You'll notice for a lot of movies, the director is also credited as a writer (Not to be confused with a story credit). A lot of Tarentino films. The Nolan trilogy. The Cornetto trilogy.

When the director is in on the writing process, it's almost always better than when the director is delivered a script he's unfamiliar with.

That Guy There
  • That Guy There

    I'm the king of the world

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#2049

Posted 2 weeks ago

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible


Yeah I actually didn't hate it and I watched it a couple times. I liked BVS much more than I liked the suicide one
  • gtaoplayer likes this

gtaoplayer
  • gtaoplayer

    null

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2016
  • United-States

#2050

Posted 2 weeks ago

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible


Yeah I actually didn't hate it and I watched it a couple times. I liked BVS much more than I liked the suicide one

I liked them both.. and Deadpool. But I didn't care for the other ones. The only current Marvel characters I like are Quicksilver/Deadpool. (and of course Black Widow)

Leftist Bastard
  • Leftist Bastard

    Like tears in rain

  • Members
  • Joined: 3 weeks ago
  • Syria

#2051

Posted 2 weeks ago

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible

That's not very good justification IMO. A movie should stand on its own regardless of what comes after it, using it as a stepping stone for other movies is arguably in itself bad writing.

  • The Deadite and gtaoplayer like this

gtaoplayer
  • gtaoplayer

    null

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2016
  • United-States

#2052

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by gtaoplayer, 2 weeks ago.

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible

That's not very good justification IMO. A movie should stand on its own regardless of what comes after it, using it as a stepping stone for other movies is arguably in itself bad writing.
I liked the story.. and the action scenes. But that's also the only thing I didn't like about it. It needed more action scenes. Maybe that's just me tho.. I like long sequences of ass kicking/killing (John Wick, Kingsman, Kickass, Deadpool etc.) I'm hoping for tons of action in Justice League and the solo Batman film. Not too worried about the writing at all

SmokesWithCigs
  • SmokesWithCigs

    recovering addict

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Nov 2014
  • United-States

#2053

Posted A week ago

People were/are way too harsh about BvS. It was clearly just a set up of what's to come in the future. I thought it was good for what it is.. and I really like Affleck as Batman. I hope he plays Batman for as long as possible


for real. shut up internet! just shut the hell up you talk too much and you think you know everything.

Natz_83
  • Natz_83

    Snitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 2 weeks ago
  • United-Kingdom

#2054

Posted A week ago

I like long sequences of ass kicking/killing (John Wick, Kingsman, Kickass, Deadpool etc.) I'm hoping for tons of action in Justice League and the solo Batman film. Not too worried about the writing at all


See I find when the action gets so long, I start losing focus. Several plot twists with 10 minute scenes is cool. But when it's a 40 minute mashup I start to seriously lose interest sadly.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users