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Should Paedophilia be Seriously Defended?

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Sting4S
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#211

Posted 28 December 2014 - 02:17 PM

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.
Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?

eroch
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#212

Posted 28 December 2014 - 07:20 PM

 

 

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.
Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?

 

I think the biggest question you and Doc should be asking is "Is it worth risking the odds that a pedophile will not act on their impulses, in the case that they do act on it?" You seem to be skating around this question, and it's really important to your argument. Personally, I don't know. I don't have the statistics to make that choice, but you should before you make a claim.


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#213

Posted 29 December 2014 - 10:09 AM Edited by Doc Rikowski, 29 December 2014 - 10:10 AM.

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.

Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?


Cause if you don't have facts then you are just theorizing things with no base in reality and such facts would certainly matter in backing up your point substantially.
I'm sorry but your common sense is based only on your very personal and subjective opinion hence the assumption that a lot of pedophiles do not engage in child porn or worse cannot be confirmed in any logical or factual way.
On the other hand the reality of facts confirms that most pedophiles do engage in child porn or worse.
That is something backed up by numbers.

@eroch: no it is not worth and that's why zero tolerance should be applied.
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Irviding
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#214

Posted 29 December 2014 - 09:00 PM Edited by Irviding, 29 December 2014 - 09:01 PM.

 

 

 

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.

 

Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?

 


Cause if you don't have facts then you are just theorizing things with no base in reality and such facts would certainly matter in backing up your point substantially.
I'm sorry but your common sense is based only on your very personal and subjective opinion hence the assumption that a lot of pedophiles do not engage in child porn or worse cannot be confirmed in any logical or factual way.
On the other hand the reality of facts confirms that most pedophiles do engage in child porn or worse.
That is something backed up by numbers.

@eroch: no it is not worth and that's why zero tolerance should be applied.

 

Agreed. It's inherently clear that pedophiles have a sexual attraction to children. I have a sexual attraction to women. I like to have sex with women, desire more sex with women, and I like to look at porn with women in it. I know it sounds elementary and almost stupid at first glance, but if a pedophile has that same attraction I do but to children, why would he/she not want to have sex with children or look at pornographic images with children? You can't cure them, but they can be made to not want to act on their urges. If that cannot be done and documented, then they cannot be in society.


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#215

Posted 01 January 2015 - 04:55 AM


 

 

 

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.
 
Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?
 
Cause if you don't have facts then you are just theorizing things with no base in reality and such facts would certainly matter in backing up your point substantially.
I'm sorry but your common sense is based only on your very personal and subjective opinion hence the assumption that a lot of pedophiles do not engage in child porn or worse cannot be confirmed in any logical or factual way.
On the other hand the reality of facts confirms that most pedophiles do engage in child porn or worse.
That is something backed up by numbers.

@eroch: no it is not worth and that's why zero tolerance should be applied.
 
Agreed. It's inherently clear that pedophiles have a sexual attraction to children. I have a sexual attraction to women. I like to have sex with women, desire more sex with women, and I like to look at porn with women in it. I know it sounds elementary and almost stupid at first glance, but if a pedophile has that same attraction I do but to children, why would he/she not want to have sex with children or look at pornographic images with children? You can't cure them, but they can be made to not want to act on their urges. If that cannot be done and documented, then they cannot be in society.

sorry dude, but just because someone gets aroused by children, does not mean he wants to molest children

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#216

Posted 01 January 2015 - 06:12 AM

there's this thing called abstinence

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#217

Posted 01 January 2015 - 06:13 AM

there's this thing called abstinence

and that has worked so well to prevent teenagers having sex

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#218

Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:06 AM

...teenagers? who said anything about teens?


Sting4S
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#219

Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:25 AM

But not all pedophiles are like that. Believe it or not, there are a lot of pedophiles out there that nobody even knows about and most of them know that it is wrong and don't act upon it by watching porn or watching children and getting off to them or, even worse, taking action on their sexual wants.

 
 You keep repeating this but can you base it on any relevant study or factual statistic?
Cause so far it seems that this is just your personal general assumption.
While the reality appears quite different judging by the large amounts of pedophiles caught so far.
Common sense. How would I back that up with facts and why would it matter?
Cause if you don't have facts then you are just theorizing things with no base in reality and such facts would certainly matter in backing up your point substantially.
I'm sorry but your common sense is based only on your very personal and subjective opinion hence the assumption that a lot of pedophiles do not engage in child porn or worse cannot be confirmed in any logical or factual way.
On the other hand the reality of facts confirms that most pedophiles do engage in child porn or worse.
That is something backed up by numbers.
@eroch: no it is not worth and that's why zero tolerance should be applied.
Agreed. It's inherently clear that pedophiles have a sexual attraction to children. I have a sexual attraction to women. I like to have sex with women, desire more sex with women, and I like to look at porn with women in it. I know it sounds elementary and almost stupid at first glance, but if a pedophile has that same attraction I do but to children, why would he/she not want to have sex with children or look at pornographic images with children? You can't cure them, but they can be made to not want to act on their urges. If that cannot be done and documented, then they cannot be in society.

sorry dude, but just because someone gets aroused by children, does not mean he wants to molest children
Dude if you haven't noticed, I've been trying to say that this whole time but clearly that points not going to get across.

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#220

Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:38 AM

^good point


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#221

Posted 01 January 2015 - 06:14 PM

sorry dude, but just because someone gets aroused by children, does not mean he wants to molest children

there's this thing called abstinence

if you don't understand why "abstinence for pedophiles" is a horrible campaign, then I'm afraid you're not equipped to participate in this discussion....


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#222

Posted 01 January 2015 - 09:50 PM

...teenagers? who said anything about teens?

Did you really not get that point?

 

I'm suggesting that abstinence does not work.


Niobium
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#223

Posted 02 January 2015 - 05:59 AM


...teenagers? who said anything about teens?

Did you really not get that point?
 
I'm suggesting that abstinence does not work.

ok, i got it.

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#224

Posted 02 January 2015 - 06:07 AM


there's this thing called abstinence

and that has worked so well to prevent teenagers having sex

i'm not saying that abstinence-only policies work. i'm saying that there are people who willingly choose not to have intercourse.

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#225

Posted 02 January 2015 - 08:23 AM

 

 

there's this thing called abstinence

and that has worked so well to prevent teenagers having sex

i'm not saying that abstinence-only policies work. i'm saying that there are people who willingly choose not to have intercourse.

 

Yeah, and those people are few and far between. Sex is human nature, we all crave it. Pedophiles crave it with children. It's really that simple.

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Doc Rikowski
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#226

Posted 03 January 2015 - 02:25 AM Edited by Doc Rikowski, 03 January 2015 - 02:31 AM.

I'm not saying it is impossible for a pedophile to consciously decide to not get any "action" for ever or in his/her lifetime and actually stoically sticking to such decision... I'm just saying that statistically/logically he/she might be part of a very rare (and repressed) tiny minority. 

And even if such tiny minority indeed exists and manages to stick to a lifetime of abstinence then they're certainly not a problem for society. This doesn't mean though that the rest and much larger amount of pedophiles are following that same path of abstinence. Usually they are not and are a serious threat for society.

 

And by abstinence I don't mean abstinence from actual  sexual intercourse with children but abstinence from everything related to sex which children which includes child porn, an abuse and a crime itself.

 

---

 

In that line of thought you can understand how small would become this idealised bunch of pedophiles that live only of their own sex fantasies with children without engaging ever in direct abuse or in "indirect" abuse via child porn.

 

Personally I don't even believe such small bunch exists.

 

If it does then prove me wrong. Show me even one innocent/never looking at child porn/never abusing a child /never desiring sexually children met in the street pedophile and I'll shut up for good.


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#227

Posted 03 January 2015 - 03:29 AM

there are people who willingly choose not to have intercourse.

and that's great when you're a healthy, normal, adult.

 

but pedophiles are usually pedophiles because they want to have intercourse with children.

you find me a pedophile who just wants to look, but not touch, and I'll be the f/cking Queen of England...

 

whatever point you're trying to make about pedophilia and abstinence will not work.

you should stop while you're not too far behind.


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#228

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:13 AM Edited by nobum62, 04 January 2015 - 04:14 AM.

maybe pedophiles who refuse to have intercourse with children are incredibly rare, but they exist.

it's nearly impossible for me to find a pedophile who does not want to f*ck kids, because no pedophile would want to tell people their orientation (for fear of losing friends, not being able to get a job, etc.)

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#229

Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:40 PM

This is the thing I don't get - if it's so easy for almost all, for example, straight men to be within the confines of morality and law (i.e. not committing rape) even if they can look at a woman and acknowledge that they really want to have intercourse with her, why is it thought of as so extraordinarily rare or even impossible for a pedophile to do the same? They're just normal adults apart from the pedophilia; normal adults abide by standard morals and law, and pedophilia has no effect on the decision making of a person, as it's concerned with a completely different thing.


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#230

Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:39 AM

Because the issue is it's wholly illegal for them to engage in sexual conduct with who they are attracted to. Even if the child somehow consents or whatever it is still illegal because a child can't consent to a sex act. A straight man( or gay men for that matter) can engage in consensual sex and enjoy pornography of what they are attracted to legally and in a morally correct way. Pedophiles never have that outlet, legally at least.
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#231

Posted 05 January 2015 - 11:09 AM

They're not normal adults exactly cause they are pedophiles.

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#232

Posted 05 January 2015 - 04:54 PM

But the point was that they recognise that such an act would be wrong in all ways - it doesn't matter what their natural impulse may be, however small or large, most of them will be able to do what they know is right. It's not like there's some natural paedophilic instinct that overrides basic thought processes upon proximity to minors or anything...


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#233

Posted 05 January 2015 - 05:29 PM

But the point was that they recognise that such an act would be wrong in all ways - it doesn't matter what their natural impulse may be, however small or large, most of them will be able to do what they know is right. It's not like there's some natural paedophilic instinct that overrides basic thought processes upon proximity to minors or anything...


I know this sounds very "gotcha" but if that were the case why do we see close to 75,000 reported cases of child sexual abuse in the US, with perhaps three-four times that actually occurring since sexual abuse is estimated to only be reported 30% of the time?

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#234

Posted 05 January 2015 - 06:07 PM

That just says how many people committed that crime - it says nothing on how many people, to put it simply, didn't commit that crime. 

 

Although that may be suggesting a fairly large amount of people are paedophiles, it's very difficult to know how many there are, plus it largely depends on the definition. I know I said this before in this thread, but when people talk about paedophiles, they might not be talking about the same definition. 


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#235

Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:00 PM

That just says how many people committed that crime - it says nothing on how many people, to put it simply, didn't commit that crime.

but it's totally beside the point.

 

the question you were asking is this: if we can trust a 'normal' person not to rape the object of his desires, why can't we also trust that a pedophile wouldn't simply rape children the moment they see them? and technically you're correct in the sense that pedophiles also have basic impulse control; they won't grab and molest children in public, obviously. but it's totally beside the point.

 

because the point is that they cannot have the object of their desire.

their fantasy will NEVER be reconciled unless they finally decide to act on it in reality or are somehow cured. we can trust the 'normal' person with this responsibility because even if they screw it up, at least they only had sex with another adult. they might have hurt that adults feelings or played with their emotions but they're both adults. we simply cannot trust the pedophile with the same sovereignty. they have no alternatives. they want to have sex with children and having sex with some other adult doesn't cut it.

 

they either seek out child pornography (which directly encourages the production of more) or they rape an actual child.

pedophiles - like any sexual deviant - are not going to live their entire lives without trying to get ahold of their desire. I will not trust them to simply have willpower. I don't want to live in a society that just trusts pedophiles to be on their best behavior...

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#236

Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:26 PM

But that seems to be painting a sexual interest as far more powerful than it is - it's not some overpowering desire, it's not like being a paedophile necessarily defines the person, like it's their focus; sure, you obviously get the ones where it's certainly affecting their decisions more and they commit a relevant crime, but to me if they weren't a paedophile they'd still be following their sexual urges to the illegal extreme, just having them pointed in a different direction. The fact they're a paedophile doesn't seem to be a major deciding factor there. 

 

Still, I'm not so convinced on my original point anymore; humans - and well, most animals - do have a pretty innate want for sexual gratification. If you give someone their primary focus of sexual interest as prepubescents (i.e. poof! You're now a paedophile!), standing there and being insistent that there is no problem whatsoever and we can just leave it up to them to be perfectly moral is, to put it bluntly, really bloody silly in retrospect. Hell, only 4% of American adults are virgins, and the number will be smaller still if you remove people who have ever looked at porn. Then you're left with a small group that I was expecting paedophiles to just accept to be a part of, which includes heavy abstinence? Yeah, no. 

 

Actually, scrap my first paragraph, if you put it with the second I'm just arguing technicalities that are ultimately meaningless. I'll leave it there just to annoy anyone who initially reads my post. 

See, you can change people's opinions over the internet. 

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