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Overrated Games This Generation

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#121

Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

Even though I do not have it, I doubt the last of us is a perfect game like most people say it is.

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#122

Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 00:00)
As overrated as Call of Duty is, NOTHING beats the Zombies mode in my opinion. I don't know, I just find it really fun trying to survive relentless hordes of zombies that get more deadly with each level you pass.

For me, all of the maps released after the last one on COD:WaW have been overcomplicated and lack strategy. All of the ones I've played and seen anyway

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#123

Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (josephene123 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 13:47)
QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 00:00)
As overrated as Call of Duty is, NOTHING beats the Zombies mode in my opinion. I don't know, I just find it really fun trying to survive relentless hordes of zombies that get more deadly with each level you pass.

For me, all of the maps released after the last one on COD:WaW have been overcomplicated and lack strategy. All of the ones I've played and seen anyway

It's weird for me, i have liked the majority of the maps that come as default, apart from the occasional 1 or 2. But i have never played a Call Of Duty DLC map that I've thought "yeah i like this map"

I'm not sure if it's because you grow used to the default maps and then the DLC ones seem strange, or simply because the DLC ones are always wank. But personally, I'm going with the latter.

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#124

Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (tms_junk @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 14:43)
QUOTE (josephene123 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 13:47)
QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 00:00)
As overrated as Call of Duty is, NOTHING beats the Zombies mode in my opinion. I don't know, I just find it really fun trying to survive relentless hordes of zombies that get more deadly with each level you pass.

For me, all of the maps released after the last one on COD:WaW have been overcomplicated and lack strategy. All of the ones I've played and seen anyway

It's weird for me, i have liked the majority of the maps that come as default, apart from the occasional 1 or 2. But i have never played a Call Of Duty DLC map that I've thought "yeah i like this map"

I'm not sure if it's because you grow used to the default maps and then the DLC ones seem strange, or simply because the DLC ones are always wank. But personally, I'm going with the latter.

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#125

Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:27 PM Edited by Thamuz, 21 July 2013 - 08:30 PM.

QUOTE (bluetops @ Wednesday)

Mass Effect. I just don't like it. Too many conversations, with choices what to say and sh*t. It's just not my cup of tea maybe.

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Imo there were too few conversations and dialogue options in the Mass Effect games(especially in ME 3 were there was usually only two dialogue responses)

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#126

Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (thegtaman531 @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 13:43)
Even though I do not have it, I doubt the last of us is a perfect game like most people say it is.

Don't misunderstand me but for what The Last of Us strives to be it hits every nail there is right, smack bang on the head. The game is perfect for what it is, sure there are improvements that could be made but I cannot, try as I might find an actual fault with the game. Yes the enemy artificial intelligence not paying attention to Ellie and your other companions does get a tad irritating at times but it saves you a whole boatload of frustration if you bother to sit down and think about it.

Regardless though, I'd make the argument that since you've never "played" the game you've really no right to comment on it. Unless you yourself have experienced the game why should you have the right to brand it anything other than perfect? I'm not saying that it is perfect, to clarify I said that it has no identifiable flaws and that's pretty damn perfect to me, someone who's played through and completed the game several times.

OT: I'd have to say that a REALLY overrated game, though not from this generation is The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. To all of you nuts who would defend it claiming that it's limitations offered more choice and that the characters in it were more interesting and fleshed out, I call bullsh*t. The game's great that's true, but the best game in the Elder Scrolls series is without a doubt Skyrim, the game is simply more developed, more advanced and technologically superior.

As for Morrowind a lot of its danger was really only skin deep, yes you could kill every character in the game but there are mods in Skyrim that allow you to do the same, and while Skyrim does in fact have some semblance of radiant AI, it isn't smart enough to construct entirely new questlines on the go so that you can kill the Jarl's son or Maven Black-Briar. Not only that, but the whole point of them having these characters be immortal was to ensure that the player go to experience these quests as with Skyrim's advanced dynamic nature, one of these NPC's could've taken a gentle stroll down and out of their respective city, and then immediately be swallowed by a thirty-meter long dragon who's feeling a bit peckish.

Morrowind didn't have this dynamic nature that Skyrim or even Oblivion had, and as a result you the player were the only one that could really bring any harm to people of that world. Therefore any fault was on you and you alone. You decide to kill the head of house Telvanni? That's fine, but you'll pay the price for that by not being able to continue with the main quest, and as I've already stated the same rule wouldn't work in Skyrim due to the NPC's having lives of there own that they will, whether you like it or not go out and live.

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#127

Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:32 PM

I have a few more.

The Last of Us
NFS: Shift (everyone said it would be amazing, it wasn't that bad, still overrated)
Halo 4 (343i's worst, don't get me started)
NFS Undercover (it was a pathetic mix of Most Wanted + Underground 2)

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#128

Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:39 PM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 21:13)


OT: I'd have to say that a REALLY overrated game, though not from this generation is The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. To all of you nuts who would defend it claiming that it's limitations offered more choice and that the characters in it were more interesting and fleshed out, I call bullsh*t. The game's great that's true, but the best game in the Elder Scrolls series is without a doubt Skyrim, the game is simply more developed, more advanced and technologically superior.

As for Morrowind a lot of its danger was really only skin deep, yes you could kill every character in the game but there are mods in Skyrim that allow you to do the same, and while Skyrim does in fact have some semblance of radiant AI, it isn't smart enough to construct entirely new questlines on the go so that you can kill the Jarl's son or Maven Black-Briar. Not only that, but the whole point of them having these characters be immortal was to ensure that the player go to experience these quests as with Skyrim's advanced dynamic nature, one of these NPC's could've taken a gentle stroll down and out of their respective city, and then immediately be swallowed by a thirty-meter long dragon who's feeling a bit peckish.

Morrowind didn't have this dynamic nature that Skyrim or even Oblivion had, and as a result you the player were the only one that could really bring any harm to people of that world. Therefore any fault was on you and you alone. You decide to kill the head of house Telvanni? That's fine, but you'll pay the price for that by not being able to continue with the main quest, and as I've already stated the same rule wouldn't work in Skyrim due to the NPC's having lives of there own that they will, whether you like it or not go out and live.

The beauty about Morrowind was its uniqueness. The landscape was unique. The guilds (at least the Dunmer ones) were unique. The lore was unique. The creatures were unique. Even the loot was hand placed. I guess you can say Oblivion and Skyrim are more polished, but when Bethesda were polishing they rubbed of some of the things that made Morrowind great. Skyrim and Oblivion may have been easier to play than Morrowind, but that doesn't make them better games. The sheer size and variety of Morrowind wins out in my mind

BTW, I played Oblivion first, so I'm not looking at things nostalgically.

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#129

Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:58 AM

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
The beauty about Morrowind was its uniqueness.

Please, go on.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
The landscape was unique.

While this argument may have worked against Oblivion's endless green fields Skyrim's landscapes range from icy tundra, to lush grassland to swamps, to mountain tops, to hidden coves and autumn woods. It was confirmed by Bethesda themselves that Skyrim has the most varied landscapes in the game, please tell me another game that has terrain matches the awesomeness of Blackreach, even Morrowind can't attest to having something that good.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
The creatures were unique.

Yet for the first time in ANY Elder Scrolls game we have dragons. Let me repeat that very slowly for you, D.R.A.G.O.N.S. Y'know the race of the Gods, the species who's very language causes massive, adverse effects on world around them from summoning lightning storms to burning down entire forests, just from a whisper of a single syllable.

Though if dragons don't interest you (Christ knows why they wouldn't) there's also a plethora of other creatures including but not limited to wolves, bears, foxes, lich's, draugr, sabretooth tigers, giants, mammoths, slaughterfish, spiders, charaus, Falmer, vampires, hawks, seagulls, sparrows, ice wraiths, witches, celestial beings and MOTHERf*ckING TRANSFORMERS. Yeah, I'd say that Skyrim has its fair share of "unique" creatures, lands and items, more so than any Elder Scrolls game to come before it.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
Even the loot was hand placed.

A lot of Skyrim's loot is hand placed, well not entirely but it's given a very specific list to choose from which adds randomisation to whatever chest you choose to open. Whether you're on your first playthrough your five hundredth you'll never know what lies beyond that golden locked chest unless you pry it open to find it out, and in a game all about adventure, exploration and uniqueness what could possibly be better than that?

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
I guess you can say Oblivion and Skyrim are more polished, but when Bethesda were polishing they rubbed of some of the things that made Morrowind great.

You've yet to mention anything that Bethesda did "great" with Morrowind, not to say that it wasn't great because of course it was and it remains my second favourite Elder Scrolls title to this day, but it's seemed to have affected you in the way that it does many others, seeing greatness where there is none. If you fail to mention anything regarding the point you're about to bring up, may I ask why you bothered to bring it up in the first place?

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
Skyrim and Oblivion may have been easier to play than Morrowind, but that doesn't make them better games.

Depending on how you played either game it could've been astonishingly easy, or blisteringly hard, Skyrim with Frostfall, Sky Re, realistic needs and diseases and Deadly Dragons alone adds to fear you feel when traversing the landscape itself, having to account for the weather, your hunger, your clothing, your sleep and your surroundings is far more immersive and challenging then anything I found in Morrowind.

Yet as I'm sure you'd agree those modifications wouldn't fit Morrowind, yet they do Skyrim because the world in which it is set simply its denizens more prone to a life of survival then one of luxury like house Telvanni for example. The game worlds are drastically different and Skyrim itself, based on its landscape and lore alone is the far more dangerous and deadly one of the bunch, where as Morrowind's a far more alien but also colonised and advanced world with the Dunmer going so far to build floating cities, but we all know how that turned out eh?

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Sunday, Jul 21 2013, 22:39)
The sheer size and variety of Morrowind wins out in my mind

Despite it being significantly shorter and more linear then both of its successors, as you've said it's all in your mind and not the actuality of the situation. You are in fact, whether you choose to accept it or not looking at the game through biased eyes and not through an open mindset that can appreciate what each game really and is judge each one on their individual flaws, failings, triumphs and successes.

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#130

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

All RPG games are also overrated IMO but Fallout and Skyrim seem pretty good haven't played them though. Those two are the only RPG's that seem interesting to me.

Oh and Angry Birds are overrated as hell, yes I played them didn't like them one bit. Sure it can be fun but it does not deserve all the attention it gets 40 million plus views on youtube. Really?

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#131

Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 03:58)



While this argument may have worked against Oblivion's endless green fields Skyrim's landscapes range from icy tundra, to lush grassland to swamps, to mountain tops, to hidden coves and autumn woods. It was confirmed by Bethesda themselves that Skyrim has the most varied landscapes in the game, please tell me another game that has terrain matches the awesomeness of Blackreach, even Morrowind can't attest to having something that good.








I enjoyed Skyrim's landscape, but Morrowind's were better. From the ashlands to the bitter coast to Azura's coast, Morrowind boasted huge variety. Skyrim's landscape may have been various, but none of it was necessarily alien. It can't claim to have something as interesting as mushroom trees.

QUOTE
Yet for the first time in ANY Elder Scrolls game we have dragons. Let me repeat that very slowly for you, D.R.A.G.O.N.S. Y'know the race of the Gods, the species who's very language causes massive, adverse effects on world around them from summoning lightning storms to burning down entire forests, just from a whisper of a single syllable.
I like dragons. The thing is, almost every fantasy RPG has them. Morrowind's fauna was entirely alien. Not to mention the dwemer centurions and deadra the game introduced, and don't forget the ash creatures.


QUOTE
A lot of Skyrim's loot is hand placed, well not entirely but it's given a very specific list to choose from which adds randomisation to whatever chest you choose to open. Whether you're on your first playthrough your five hundredth you'll never know what lies beyond that golden locked chest unless you pry it open to find it out, and in a game all about adventure, exploration and uniqueness what could possibly be better than that?
It kinda takes the thrill of exploration out of them game, doesn't it? I'm sure you remember finding your first deadric item in morrowind, I bet you delved into more than a few ruins in your attempt to search for it. When the loot levels up with you, it takes any sort of achievement of exploration out of the game. The beauty of hand placed loot is that you only have a finite amount of high ed items in the game, so your going to covet the ones you have.

QUOTE
Depending on how you played either game it could've been astonishingly easy, or blisteringly hard, Skyrim with Frostfall, Sky Re, realistic needs and diseases and Deadly Dragons alone adds to fear you feel when traversing the landscape itself, having to account for the weather, your hunger, your clothing, your sleep and your surroundings is far more immersive and challenging then anything I found in Morrowind.
My PC can't handle Skyrim, so I've only played the 360 version. I'm sure Skyrim is more difficult with mods, but so was Oblivion, but it doesn't change the difficulty of the vanilla version.


QUOTE
Despite it being significantly shorter and more linear then both of its successors, as you've said it's all in your mind and not the actuality of the situation. You are in fact, whether you choose to accept it or not looking at the game through biased eyes and not through an open mindset that can appreciate what each game really and is judge each one on their individual flaws, failings, triumphs and successes.
I never said Oblivion and Skyrim were bad games. They are brilliant games. (unmodded Oblivion is pretty bland though) I only said Morrowind was the best Elder Scrolls game. All the Elder scrolls games are flawed, Morrowind included, but I can overlook it's flaws because I've never played a game quite like it

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#132

Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE (DeafMetal @ Saturday, Jul 20 2013, 21:20)
Half Life 2 (technically it's this gen because of Orange Box) - the most overrated game in existence imo. It's a GOOD game, but f*cking hell, people treat it like the second coming of Jesus. It innovated absolutely nothing that the original Half Life had not already done, and yet people point at it like it was groundbreaking.

Half-Life 2 is not a current-gen game.

And the reason people say it was ground breaking IMO was because it revolutionized PC gaming since it was a PC exclusive and it was a fantastic PC exclusive. It was also the first Steam game ever released so it really was a revolution for PC gaming. And I love HL-2 myself.

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#133

Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 14:18)
QUOTE (DeafMetal @ Saturday, Jul 20 2013, 21:20)
Half Life 2 (technically it's this gen because of Orange Box) - the most overrated game in existence imo. It's a GOOD game, but f*cking hell, people treat it like the second coming of Jesus. It innovated absolutely nothing that the original Half Life had not already done, and yet people point at it like it was groundbreaking.

Half-Life 2 is not a current-gen game.

Yes, it is.
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#134

Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:39 PM

Halo,COD and Battlefield series.I addmit that i'm more SP than MP guy. I could play COD 4 multiplayer for 1 hour and get bored and then play GTA or Fallout for 5-6 hours. I just get bored jumping around and shooting enemies with no purpose.

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#135

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 12:23)
I enjoyed Skyrim's landscape, but Morrowind's were better. From the ashlands to the bitter coast to Azura's coast, Morrowind boasted huge variety. Skyrim's  landscape may have been various, but none of it was necessarily alien. It can't claim to have something as interesting as mushroom trees.  

Did you even playthrough Skyrim? Because Skyrim can in fact claim to have something better than mushroom trees. Those things being Blackreach's gigantic, glowing, mushrooms.

user posted image


QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 12:23)
I like dragons. The thing is, almost every fantasy RPG has them. Morrowind's fauna was entirely alien. Not to mention the dwemer centurions and deadra the game introduced, and don't forget the ash creatures.

You sound to me like you've been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series for quite some time, so I have to ask if you realise just how big of a deal adding dragons into the actual gameworld is? Dragons haven't shown up in Elder Scrolls lore in any game prior to Oblivion and even then there was a very specific reason one showed up and why. Had Mehrunes Dagon not tried to invade Tamriel by slaughtering Uriel Septim and all of his known descendants Martin may not have ever known he was the Emperor's bastard son and as a result he'd never have obtained the Amulet of Kings causing him to use it as a last ditch attempt to stop Mehrunes Dagon's attack.

Akatosh's spirit being released from the amulet is quite possibly one of the most, if not the most important moment in Elder Scrolls history since Anu and Padomay created existence. This is the first time a divine has ever, interacted directly in the affairs of mortal men since the days of St Alessia, and even then Akatosh never fought for the Aedra he simply closed shut the jaws of Oblivion and prevented the Akaviri from attacking the mortal Aedra with endless, undying, Daedric hordes. Here however he personally killed and sent one of the most powerful Daedric Princes back to his realm of Oblivion.

So it's fair to say that the dragons in the Elder Scrolls series mean a fair bit, whether you view them as new to Fantasy/RPG genre is irrelevant as we're discussing a specific franchise here and not the entire genre itself. Though if we were to be discussing that I could just as easily use the same argument to suggest that Morrowind wasn't too unique with its creatures or creations, but of course you make an acception for that game and not for Skyrim's dragons. Please don't misunderstand me, I know that dragons are overused in the specified genres but there is just such a massive difference between dragons from other fictional universes to the Elder Scrolls' ones.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 12:23)
It kinda takes the thrill of exploration out of them game, doesn't it?

No, in fact I'd argue the presence of the randomly generated loot system on serves to make the game even more thrilling seeing as you never quite know what you're going to get. Hell I remember the first time I found Meridia's Beacon in a chest south of Solitude, I was shocked, intrigued and scared sh*tless the moment I heard her talking to me, and though the quest remains the same, where and when you find the object is entirely random and as a result of that the gameworld feels more alive, random and dynamic then Morrowind's.

The moment things become scripted, they become boring, if I know where to go to get the Uber Sword of Mega Awesome twenty minutes into the game where's the fun? I mean I remember the first time I found Luke Skywalker's lightsaber in Morrowind and it was great, but now I know exactly where to go to find the item and there's no doubt in my mind that if I wanted I could become the ultimate death machine in Morrowind because I know the game too well. I can find that sword, I can find whatever armour I want and I can find all the hidden glitches and spots that after about forty minutes will make me the literal "God of Death", in Skyrim such a thing is impossible and it's what's kept going back to that game again, and again, and again.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 12:23)
but it doesn't change the difficulty of the vanilla version.

That might be true, but the difficulty slider in all games allows vanilla adjustability. While Oblivion was evidently one of the most annoying RPG's for level progression (seeing as unless you were level thirty odd creatures would scale with you instantly making you weaker by leveling up until really late in the game) but Skyrim wasn't, there were creatures in Skyrim that would rip me apart if I screwed with them at a lower level (giants, centurions, sabretooth cats, et cetera) but as I advanced I felt stronger, more confident in my abilities and most of all a sense of progression.

Now, while Oblivion goes to the far left in this situation Morrowind is on the far right, the game's enemies never advance with the player often leaving me jarred at how I've become the "God Killer" and yet have nothing else to do in the game since no-one could possibly match my combat abilities. This is was fine for its time, but when playing Morrowind I can feel its age due to the evident lack of a scaling feature, the game became too easy at points and overly difficult at others which for some may have felt great, but to me became more of a nuisance than anything else.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 12:23)
I never said Oblivion and Skyrim were bad games. They are brilliant games. (unmodded Oblivion is pretty bland though) I only said Morrowind was the best Elder Scrolls game.

Though you've yet to provide me with anything substantial that would prove it to be the "best Elder Scrolls game" other than your own personal, nostalgic feelings towards the game, something you denied openly with your first post. So please, tell me why Morrowind is the best game and give actual, empirically provable reasons, not something like "Skyrim doesn't have giant mushrooms" even though it evidently did.

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#136

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:58 PM

^ tldr, didn't read.
Seriously guys, don't get your butt hurt over something simple. It was his opinion, if you don't agree with it, just get over it. No need to write a novel about it

on topic, Can't believe i'm saying this, but Bioshock Infinite. I enjoyed everything in it, but it wasn't that great like a lot of people said.
And GTA IV. Boring as f*ck. SA is a lot more awesome.

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#137

Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:03 PM

Bioshock Infinite
The Last of Us
Skyrim
The Walking Dead
Uncharted 2

and GTA IV is admittedly a bit overrated. It's like, I would give it a 9/10, but the fact there wasn't a single reviewer who scored it below the 90's range was a little absurd.

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#138

Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (69_black_69 @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 22:58)
^ tldr, didn't read.
Seriously guys, don't get your butt hurt over something simple. It was his opinion, if you don't agree with it, just get over it. No need to write a novel about it

I'm not "butt hurt" as you so eloquently put it, I'm simply trying to understand how someone could prefer the weaker game on all fronts, we're not moaning or acting childishly so I'd guess that unless you do bother to read what I wrote down, you'll continue looking like an idiot.

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#139

Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:31 AM Edited by 69_black_69, 23 July 2013 - 01:25 AM.

^ Em, you know, GTA VC is "weaker" than GTA IV, yet i love VC compared to IV. Heck, i even like GTA II compared to IV.
I like Dead Space 1 with its simple story and simple gameplay, than Dead Space 3, with it's more action sequence, improved graphic, upgradeable weapon and so on.
I played Oblivion a lot, and i think it's definitely much better than Skyrim for me. (i have played Skyrim, just letting you know)
I enjoyed NES game alot, where you just jump n sh*t with no story at all, compared to nowadays game with complex gameplay and mindblowing graphics.

It's a matter of taste. Is it really hard to understand?
Okay then, i'll continue with my idiocy. It's definitely much better than reading those wall of text of your "butthurt".

Or if you really need to discuss whatever you're talking about on your post, take it to PM. I'll just gtfo from here, since there are no need to discuss this again.

down:
So the problem here is the word 'the best'? you think before we said the word 'The Best', we need to take a look at every aspect of it? Ignoring about our preferences?
an example

Me : My father is the best person in the world!
you : What the hell are you talking about, clearly the best person here is Bill Gates! He's rich, a lof of people know him, without him, the world won't be the same place as it is now, he's a lot more important than your father. Your father is the best person? Hell noo. Your dad is your favorite person.

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#140

Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:51 AM

QUOTE (69_black_69 @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 00:31)
^ Em, you know, GTA VC is "weaker" than GTA IV, yet i love VC compared to IV.

Yes, but that's exactly what I was trying to prove, nothing more.

He specifically stated that it was an "unbiased view" as he'd played Oblivion before either game, he's clearly biased as are you. The superior game is Skyrim, but we can all have our favourites; for example my favourite game of the last generation was Shadow of The Colossus, was it the best? Hell no. But it was my favourite.

Please before commenting in future read what you're criticising, that it what makes you look imbecilic, not the fact that you have a different opinion than I do, but rather that you came into this conversation and decided to give your views on the subject without even bothering to read about it first.

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#141

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 22:38)
You sound to me like you've been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series for quite some time, so I have to ask if you realise just how big of a deal adding dragons into the actual gameworld is? Dragons haven't shown up in Elder Scrolls lore in any game prior to Oblivion and even then there was a very specific reason one showed up and why. Had Mehrunes Dagon not tried to invade Tamriel by slaughtering Uriel Septim and all of his known descendants Martin may not have ever known he was the Emperor's bastard son and as a result he'd never have obtained the Amulet of Kings causing him to use it as a last ditch attempt to stop Mehrunes Dagon's attack.

Akatosh's spirit being released from the amulet is quite possibly one of the most, if not the most important moment in Elder Scrolls history since Anu and Padomay created existence. This is the first time a divine has ever, interacted directly in the affairs of mortal men since the days of St Alessia, and even then Akatosh never fought for the Aedra he simply closed shut the jaws of Oblivion and prevented the Akaviri from attacking the mortal Aedra with endless, undying, Daedric hordes. Here however he personally killed and sent one of the most powerful Daedric Princes back to his realm of Oblivion.

So it's fair to say that the dragons in the Elder Scrolls series mean a fair bit, whether you view them as new to Fantasy/RPG genre is irrelevant as we're discussing a specific franchise here and not the entire genre itself. Though if we were to be discussing that I could just as easily use the same argument to suggest that Morrowind wasn't too unique with its creatures or creations, but of course you make an acception for that game and not for Skyrim's dragons. Please don't misunderstand me, I know that dragons are overused in the specified genres but there is just such a massive difference between dragons from other fictional universes to the Elder Scrolls' ones.

Lorewise, adding dragons made perfect sense, and I enjoyed the fact that they were in the game. Doesn't change the fact that they're not unique. Bethesda did make them interesting by having them have violent debates, but the troupe of intelligent dragons is not an uncommon one.


QUOTE
No, in fact I'd argue the presence of the randomly generated loot system on serves to make the game even more thrilling seeing as you never quite know what you're going to get. Hell I remember the first time I found Meridia's Beacon in a chest south of Solitude, I was shocked, intrigued and scared sh*tless the moment I heard her talking to me, and though the quest remains the same, where and when you find the object is entirely random and as a result of that the gameworld feels more alive, random and dynamic then Morrowind's.

The moment things become scripted, they become boring, if I know where to go to get the Uber Sword of Mega Awesome twenty minutes into the game where's the fun? I mean I remember the first time I found Luke Skywalker's lightsaber in Morrowind and it was great, but now I know exactly where to go to find the item and there's no doubt in my mind that if I wanted I could become the ultimate death machine in Morrowind because I know the game too well. I can find that sword, I can find whatever armour I want and I can find all the hidden glitches and spots that after about forty minutes will make me the literal "God of Death", in Skyrim such a thing is impossible and it's what's kept going back to that game again, and again, and again.
Why should I be interested in entering any dungeons if I know the best loot I will find is an enchanted steel sword? I guess I'm not against random loot as much as I am against leveled loot. It takes the thrill of exploration out if I know the best items I will find are leveled.

QUOTE
That might be true, but the difficulty slider in all games allows vanilla adjustability. While Oblivion was evidently one of the most annoying RPG's for level progression (seeing as unless you were level thirty odd creatures would scale with you instantly making you weaker by leveling up until really late in the game) but Skyrim wasn't, there were creatures in Skyrim that would rip me apart if I screwed with them at a lower level (giants, centurions, sabretooth cats, et cetera) but as I advanced I felt stronger, more confident in my abilities and most of all a sense of progression.

Now, while Oblivion goes to the far left in this situation Morrowind is on the far right, the game's enemies never advance with the player often leaving me jarred at how I've become the "God Killer" and yet have nothing else to do in the game since no-one could possibly match my combat abilities. This is was fine for its time, but when playing Morrowind I can feel its age due to the evident lack of a scaling feature, the game became too easy at points and overly difficult at others which for some may have felt great, but to me became more of a nuisance than anything else.
In both Morrowind and Skyrim you were basically a god at higher levels. Skyrim was challenging at lower levels, but I never felt any immediate threat of danger like I did in Morrowind.

And some enemies did level up with you in Morrowind. It was just a lot more subtle than in Oblivion.

QUOTE
Though you've yet to provide me with anything substantial that would prove it to be the "best Elder Scrolls game" other than your own personal, nostalgic feelings towards the game, something you denied openly with your first post. So please, tell me why Morrowind is the best game and give actual, empirically provable reasons, not something like "Skyrim doesn't have giant mushrooms" even though it evidently did.
I can't. It was the best because I enjoyed it the most. Just like you think Skyrim is the best because you enjoyed it the most. Are there any reasons why Skyrim was objectively the best game?

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#142

Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 01:04)
Lorewise, adding dragons made perfect sense, and I enjoyed the fact that they were in the game. Doesn't change the fact that they're not unique.

Though once again I'd like to remind you that we're not discussing the series in terms of the RPG/Fantasy genre, rather we're discussing the series itself and not any elements outside of it, as for Skyrim's dragons, they were more than likely the most unique in a videogame for a long time. I've not seen an entire language constructed from the ground up just for dragons in a fantasy genre. Yes, I do realise that there are dragon languages in other pieces of fantasy, but Skyrim's is one that the player, should they wish to can actually pick up and learn.

Not only that, but as I've mentioned dragons in Skyrim are the species of the Nine Divine's themselves, the proverbial sons of Akatosh, God of time and space. These dragons have far more going for them than you realise, from dragon's being able to absorb on another's souls to flying not because of their wings but because of the magical auras that surround their immortal bodies. This is without me even starting mention to that Tosh Raka, leader of the Tiger people of Ka Po' Tun in Akavir, has succeeded in transforming himself into a dragon, or the religious complexity behind the First Era's dragon-based religious groups and followings.

Dragons also have rather interesting histories, take for example Durnehviir; in the Merethic Era when dragons ruled Tamriel, Durnehviir took part in many battles against other dragons for control of the skies. Instead of fighting, he delved into "alok-dilon", or necromancy. Like many great necromancers, he contacted the Ideal Masters in an attempt to gain their favor. They granted him the power to summon armies of undead from the Soul Cairn, but in return he had to guard a vampire named Valerica who had been trapped in the Soul Cairn by the Ideal Masters. The Masters neglected to inform Durnehviir of Valerica's immortality, and essentially tricked him into eternal servitude. In time, his body became accustomed to the Soul Cairn, making it impossible for him to ever permanently return to Tamriel.

So I'd make the argument that not only are the dragons unique to the Elder Scrolls series, but also to fantasy in general as there are just too many elements for us to take into account that'd make them like dragons from any other works of fiction. I could also once again make the argument that the base concepts of all the races in Tamriel aren't unique but it's there backstory, lore and history that serves to make them incomparable to their fantasy equivalents.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 01:04)
Why should I be interested in entering any dungeons if I know the best loot I will find is an enchanted steel sword?

Only in Oblivion was such obvious scaling present where in Skyrim it was more subtle, yes you'd be lucky to find a daedric item in the game at an early level, but it was and is still something that's possible, where in Oblivion it simply wasn't. Skyrim took the scaling from Oblivion and gave it a massive overhaul if you compare the two games' individual loot systems, Oblivion was centered around basing everything to the exact level of the player where in Skyrim you could find an ebony sword and iron boots in the same chest and you'd still be encountering this lower level of armour far into the late game.

I don't know about you, but having two dozen bandits decked out in fully enchanted ebony armour just felt off in Oblivion, you wondered why they were still bandits and not famous, widely acclaimed, warriors of death. In Skyrim scaled loot isn't really present, the system works that as you level up you're more likely to see things that'd be better off for someone of your level, but that still didn't stop the blacksmiths of Skyrim selling iron swords or hide shields now did it?

I suppose what I'm getting at here as that the majority of your arguments are directed solely towards Oblivion and its problems, problems Skyrim later solved and is currently free of. Don't get me wrong I much prefered and still do prefer Morrowind's loot system over Oblivion's but Skyrim trumps them both if only for the possibility of what you could get, in fact I found myself far more prone to opening chests in Skyrim then I ever had been in any of the previous Elder Scrolls games. The reason for that lies solely in random chance, something that presents itself a lot during Skyrim and it's that feeling that what's behind that chest could be insurmountably helpful right now that's kept me picking locks in Skyrim long since I left the sand dunes.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 01:04)
In both Morrowind and Skyrim you were basically a god at higher levels. Skyrim was challenging at lower levels, but I never felt any immediate threat of danger like I did in Morrowind.

I felt far more danger at the beginning of Skyrim then I did in Morrowind, firstly unlike Morrowind where I was being discharged from prison, here I was on my way to my execution with the rebel leader himself Ulfric Stormcloak. The moment I saw that poor Nord's head meet the axe and fall into the basket was the moment I realised I was in far more danger here than I had originally imagined and that was before Alduin himself came in and annihilated Helgen.

In the first twenty minutes of Morrowind I was taken to sign out a few papers and meet the locals of a town, in the first twenty minutes of Skyrim I was going to be executed, saw Alduin (the son of Akatosh himself) come and devour the village and its inhabitants, sneak through a subterranean prison system fighting against rebels, imperials, bears and even giant spiders. Then I had to take a two mile hike with a soldier I wasn't sure I could trust and on the way fought a pack of savage wolves and activated a magical wayshrine that hadn't worked for centuries. Which game was it that you felt the more immediate sense of danger in again?

Evidently Morrowind's strange landscape might put a first time player on the edge, not knowing how anything in this strange and alien land works. But for an experienced player like you or I, surely its threat level decreases drastically, as is true of all games, even Skyrim. The difference being however that Skyrim simply puts the player in a more dangerous situation from the start, whereas Morrowind allows the player to stick around and try to a gasp of the world around them before throwing them straight into death's mouth.

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 01:04)
I can't. It was the best because I enjoyed it the most. Just like you think Skyrim is the best because you enjoyed it the most. Are there any reasons why Skyrim was objectively the best game?

Because Skyrim is simply an improvement on everything in the Elder Scrolls series, the idea of actually leveling by doing is a far more immersive thing and allows me to build the character I want regardless of how abstract he is. The ability to dual wield weapons, spells, staffs makes the game feel more open, my character can balance a shield and a staff and that's fine, in no other Elder Scrolls game was that amount of freedom available.

Then there's the technological aspects of the game, it's simply more advanced. Each and every character is voiced and has their own job, personality and lifestyle. The game is simply more developed, more interesting on a technical level and much, more important in terms of what each individual hero is chosen for, the Dragonborn to save the world from be eating from an angry dragon God and the Nerevarine to defeat Dagoth Ur. Skyrim's just a bigger game on every level, and while it's certainly fine for someone to prefer Morrowind, do not tell me that you do so for any other reason then you have fond memories of playing it.

On every level Skyrim wins out against Morrowind, and the rest simply comes down to personal preference, but when discussing the "best" Elder Scrolls game no-one can deny that Skyrim fits that role better than any other game in the series. Of course, again this doesn't mean it has to be your favourite game (Daggerfall being my favourite Elder Scrolls game) but rather acknowledging that it is the most developed and biggest Elder Scrolls game to date, that is what matters.

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#143

Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:03 AM Edited by theomenofficial, 23 July 2013 - 09:10 AM.

Calm the f*ck down and stop destroying this topic.
No-one wants to read an unrelated essay.

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#144

Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (theomenofficial @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 09:03)
Calm the f*ck down and stop destroying this topic.
No-one wants to read an unrelated essay.

I am calm.

And it is relevant to the topic, a debate on whether or not a specific game is overrated or not. Is that not why this topic exists?

Go home.

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#145

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 08:43)
unique in a videogame for a long time. I've not seen an entire language constructed from the ground up just for dragons in a fantasy genre. Yes, I do realise that there are dragon languages in other pieces of fantasy, but Skyrim's is one that the player, should they wish to can actually pick up and learn.

Pretty sure Ego Draconis had this as well tounge.gif
And of course every D'n'D-based game ever made, which are also pieces of fiction.


Anyway, even though Skyrim has better gameplay. graphics and technical (issues) setup, the lore and storyline can still be worse than in other TES games. For me the Skyrim plot was rather cheesy, but I haven't played the other TES-games, so can't tell if they were just as cheesy as this.







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#146

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:28 PM

To be honest.. Skyrim is probably one of my all time favourite games. I love it quite a lot actually. There's nothing wrong with it, it just needed more polishing.

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#147

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE (theomenofficial @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 14:33)
Calm the f*ck down and stop destroying this topic.
No-one wants to read an unrelated essay.

This is a forum where members are free to question other member's opinions. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

And Nova's post was not un-related, he and Nipperkins were talking about TES, more specifically Morrowind, Skyrim and Oblivion and like he says you really should read or atleast get a gist of what he is trying to say.

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#148

Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 08:43)

Because Skyrim is simply an improvement on everything in the Elder Scrolls series, the idea of actually leveling by doing is a far more immersive thing and allows me to build the character I want regardless of how abstract he is. The ability to dual wield weapons, spells, staffs makes the game feel more open, my character can balance a shield and a staff and that's fine, in no other Elder Scrolls game was that amount of freedom available.

Then there's the technological aspects of the game, it's simply more advanced. Each and every character is voiced and has their own job, personality and lifestyle. The game is simply more developed, more interesting on a technical level and much, more important in terms of what each individual hero is chosen for, the Dragonborn to save the world from be eating from an angry dragon God and the Nerevarine to defeat Dagoth Ur. Skyrim's just a bigger game on every level, and while it's certainly fine for someone to prefer Morrowind, do not tell me that you do so for any other reason then you have fond memories of playing it.

On every level Skyrim wins out against Morrowind, and the rest simply comes down to personal preference, but when discussing the "best" Elder Scrolls game no-one can deny that Skyrim fits that role better than any other game in the series. Of course, again this doesn't mean it has to be your favourite game (Daggerfall being my favourite Elder Scrolls game) but rather acknowledging that it is the most developed and biggest Elder Scrolls game to date, that is what matters.

Besides the ability to dual-wield and living NPCs, Skyrim is a smaller game than Morrowind. In Morrowind you have attributes, more skills, more spells, larger cities, more towns and cities, more guilds, more armors and weapons. You can't tell me Skyrim is a bigger game than Morrowind.

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#149

Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:36 PM

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Thursday, Jul 25 2013, 21:44)

Besides the ability to dual-wield and living NPCs, Skyrim is a smaller game than Morrowind. In Morrowind you have attributes, more skills, more spells, larger cities, more towns and cities, more guilds, more armors and weapons. You can't tell me Skyrim is a bigger game than Morrowind.

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#150

Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:24 PM

QUOTE (Nipperkins @ Thursday, Jul 25 2013, 21:44)
Besides the ability to dual-wield and living NPCs, Skyrim is a smaller game than Morrowind. In Morrowind you have attributes, more skills, more spells, larger cities, more towns and cities, more guilds, more armors and weapons. You can't tell me Skyrim is a bigger game than Morrowind.

Nope, in fact the largest province in Skyrim is larger than anything in Morrowind, with Skyrim being a fraction larger than Oblivion it's fairly obvious it's bigger than Morrowind.

Morrowind has fewer spells than Skyrim too, though many of Skyrim's are similar Skyrim does in fact allow the player more magical freedom than Morrowind, and more armours and weaponry. Yes it lacks medium armour, but it more than makes up with it thanks to the several dozen different armoured factions in the game.

The skills in Skyrim actually hold more variety than Morrowind's, with Morrowind's being simple statistical upgrades rather than noticeable changes in combat that Skyrim has thanks to its vastly expansive perk system. I can customise a character in Morrowind to do many things, but I can't quite do it with the level of freedom that Skyrim provides me with, Morrowind is an older game so on the technical side of things it's not wonder that it's inferior to its ten year younger brother.




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