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US Gov now recognises LoL pros as athletes

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GunWrath
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#61

Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:55 PM

Wow at some of the people that get asshurt over this subject, lol. I take it they play League of Diamonds and StarBarf. So much hostility towards those who don't agree with the fact that we don't think they're athletes. Relax gents.. ffs. I went from wanting to debate our side against some of yours.. but now I'll just watch in hilarity.

reform
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#62

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:03 PM

Are you actually just trolling? You keep throwing the same accusations and making the same "arguments" repeatedly, even though they have no relation to anything anyone has said.

If you really want to debate why don't you try reading what people are actually saying, instead of arguing against things which nobody has said.

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#63

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:04 PM

Mhm... you're doing it right America, keep up the great f*cking work. icon14.gif

GunWrath
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#64

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Limitless @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 14:04)
Mhm... you're doing it right America, keep up the great f*cking work. icon14.gif

Pretty much this.. US does such a lovely job these days. 'MERICA suicidal.gif

Nice 'stache there Mr. Burgandy.

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#65

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

What happened to real Athletes and the old fashion all american sport teams?
Now all you gotta do is pick up a controller or sit at a key board and you're a professional athlete? Sh*t is a joke.

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 13:07)
Nice 'stache there Mr. Burgandy.

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reform
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#66

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:31 PM

Explain why you guys are so upset by this? Just because they have the same visa rights as anyone else involved in some form of competative activity now doesn't mean they are or aren't an athlete. That term is not even important. It's a technicality, so really, what about this upsets you so much?

GunWrath
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#67

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Limitless @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 14:18)
What happened to real Athletes and the old fashion all american sport teams?
Now all you gotta do is pick up a controller or sit at a key board and you're a professional athlete? Sh*t is a joke. 

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 13:07)
Nice 'stache there Mr. Burgandy.

Veronica Corningstone and I had sex, and now we are in love!

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Burgandy is the man. There's an Anchorman 2 coming soon smile.gif

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#68

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:39 PM

I thought so.

GunWrath
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#69

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (reform @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 14:39)
I thought so.

Told you I'm done arguing with you man, get it through your skull. Quit attacking everyone whose opinion is different from yours. It's beginning to seem desperate on your part to gain some sort of acknowledgement.

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#70

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 20:43)
Told you I'm done arguing with you man, get it through your skull. Quit attacking everyone whose opinion is different from yours. It's beginning to seem desperate on your part to gain some sort of acknowledgement.

No one's attacking anyone, we're just trying to have a discussion because we have differing opinions. That's what makes things interesting. Stop being a child about it.

Jesus, so many people on the forums lately who just shout 'mm..muh opinions!' to avoid discussion and circlejerk with people who agree with them instead.

GunWrath
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#71

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:02 PM

I'm being a child? I'm being the more appropriate one here, guy. He's not looking for discussion, he's looking for an argument, there's a difference.

mmhmm Opinions is what a forum is about.. but when one wants to insult or get argumentative over an opinion is where the discussion needs to stop. He literally battles anyone here who agrees that what they're doing is ridiculous. Not he retorts and says 'oh, technicality, technicality, I didn't say sport, I didn't say sport', when he literally said sport over a dozen times in this topic.

But if you don't mind, I was in a circlejerk with Limitless that you so rudely interrupted. Thanks.

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#72

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:02 PM

Oh for god sake Gun can you not say anything that isn't a red herring fallacy? You claimed you initially wanted to debate but if that was genuine you'd have actually argued with counterpoints instead of fallacy.

You never actually refrenced anything that anyone actually said. Just things you claimed people had said, when they hadn't.

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#73

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:05 PM

I never said I wanted to debate. I was clearly the one trying to end the debate to keep you and I from doing what we're doing now. But no, you couldn't soak up your pride for one reply could you? Call my words fallacy, ignorant, misleading, whatever you wish to make yourself feel better and better guard your stance on this subject. It doesn't affect me man.. I said what I needed to say and clearly this will never end. So you two go on about your eSport revolution. lol.gif I'll leave y'all at it man.

Bravo, reform, bravo.

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#74

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:12 PM

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 20:05)
I never said I wanted to debate. I was clearly the one trying to end the debate to keep you and I from doing what we're doing now. But no, you couldn't soak up your pride for one reply could you? Call my words fallacy, ignorant, misleading, whatever you wish to make yourself feel better and better guard your stance on this subject. It doesn't affect me man.. I said what I needed to say and clearly this will never end. So you two go on about your eSport revolution. lol.gif I'll leave y'all at it man.

Bravo, reform, bravo.

Oh really?

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 18:55)
Wow at some of the people that get asshurt over this subject, lol. I take it they play League of Diamonds and StarBarf. So much hostility towards those who don't agree with the fact that we don't think they're athletes. Relax gents.. ffs. I went from wanting to debate our side against some of yours.. but now I'll just watch in hilarity.


And please, go ahead and quote where I said that I thought eSports were a sport. Seeing as according to you I've said it multiple times, it shouldn't be too hard.


That's how you counter-point, sister.

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#75

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:43 PM

Enough of the arguing so we can get back on topic here. If you really feel the need to keep argueing with each other, take it to PM's please.

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#76

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:47 PM

I'm pretty sure we're both done, but we were on topic.

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#77

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE (reform @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 21:47)
we were on topic.

Yeah, and there's nothing much to be said on this topic and this disagreement/debate is the only hope it has to create some interesting conversation. Doesn't really matter though.

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#78

Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 12:55)
Wow at some of the people that get asshurt over this subject, lol. I take it they play League of Diamonds and StarBarf. So much hostility towards those who don't agree with the fact that we don't think they're athletes. Relax gents.. ffs. I went from wanting to debate our side against some of yours.. but now I'll just watch in hilarity.

Your "debating" was strait up ignorant sh*t-talking. I have no clue what the f*ck is going on in your head to convince you that the sh*t you've spouted can in any world be considered debate.

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#79

Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 13:37)
QUOTE (Limitless @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 14:18)
What happened to real Athletes and the old fashion all american sport teams?
Now all you gotta do is pick up a controller or sit at a key board and you're a professional athlete? Sh*t is a joke.†

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 13:07)
Nice 'stache there Mr. Burgandy.

Veronica Corningstone and I had sex, and now we are in love!

"Oh, I can barely lift my right arm cause I did so many. I donít know if you heard me counting. I did over a thousand."

Burgandy is the man. There's an Anchorman 2 coming soon smile.gif

Don't you know I'd never say f*ck. f*ck.

Yea, I can't wait! I love Will Ferrell. biggrin.gif

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#80

Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:54 AM Edited by AceKingston, 15 July 2013 - 10:56 AM.

QUOTE (reform @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 20:59)
QUOTE (AceKingston @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:17)

You're forgetting it's a virtual video game

There is a difference between virtual and reality.

So you're trying to say that they can be called athletes? Really? turn.gif

Did you read anything he just wrote?

For your information I did read what Doom wrote, some please think a little bit before typing a strong worded post later.

QUOTE
Why are people getting so bogged down in the terminolgy/semantics. It's just a f*cking technicallity. Whether you think they are athletes or not or whether you think eSports are sport of not DOESN'T f*ckING MATTER.

Sounds like people are just jealous that some folks out there are getting paid to play games.


Your stupidity continues to amaze me.

QUOTE
You know you're not making a good point at all here. Yeah the playing field is virtual, but the people playing are in reality. They are real people competing against each other and just because it's in a virtual setting doesn't mean a damn thing.


Now, the people playing are real yes, but you can call yourself a 'athlete' is going to far. They are gamer's not athletes

QUOTE (Definition for athlete)
A person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise


Endurance. When you play in Real-Life it takes a lot of your stamina. For example the 100 M relay. Do games consume your stamina? No. Do games test your endurance? No. A player can only be called an athlete unless it's physical. I can become a Pro by playing against guys who are incredibly sh*t and call myself 'Oh yeah I'm a Pro, I'm an athlete'. It's different in real-life. Real-Life requires endurance, stamina and much more skill. Even the players who are not so good in real-life are a challenge.

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#81

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Monday, Jul 15 2013, 10:54)
Now, the people playing are real yes, but you can call yourself a 'athlete' is going to far. They are gamer's not athletes

Haha, you did it again! Keep bringing up the terminology. So according to you they have to make a special recognition for gamers (same applies to board game players, NASCAR racers, hockey players, football players, soccer (lol) players, golf players, etc) because they all require different skills and only the handfull of skills you like to see can be labeled as athlete according to the dictionary in your mind?

Athlete in this case is just another word for pro, for the best, for being paid to play, nothing else.


QUOTE
Do games consume your stamina? No. Do games test your endurance? No.


Holy jesus sh*tballs captain, did I just read that?

Do you know how much brain activity you have when playing competitive games, your reactions have to be faster than someone who sees the ball coming from a mile away and you can't drop your concentration for a f*cking second or you lose. Is that enough physical proof to be labeled as an athlete?

For me it is, but no, you want them to run around or sometimes stand on a patch of grass, waiting for something to happen. You want them to swing sticks at a ball or put their foot on a pedal (driving a car, pro athlete), before someone can be called an athlete, because that meaning is stuck in your head (maybe because you were denied to a certain sport when you were a child because of lack of ability or something)

Did you ever see this clip?:

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#82

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:21 AM Edited by reform, 15 July 2013 - 11:25 AM.

@ AceKingston

All you've proven is that you've missed the point. Nobody is suggesting they ARE athletes. (at least not in the classical sense)

Besides, there's plenty of traditional sports which require no stamina. Darts, Pool/Snooker, Bowling, Bowls, Shooting. You may be of the persuasion that none of these are sports either, and that's fine, nobody really minds that you have that opinion and lots of people share it. There are "sports" which I don't consider as sports too, like that horse dancing they always do at the olympics.

But they all still have athlete "status" as far as visas go. If The US Gov. changed the visa classification to "Competes in something that may be a sport but it may also be something other than a sport", would you still have something against this new ruling?

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#83

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:21 AM Edited by AceKingston, 15 July 2013 - 11:28 AM.

QUOTE
Haha, you did it again! Keep bringing up the terminology. So according to you they have to make a special recognition for gamers (same applies to board game players, NASCAR racers, hockey players, football players, soccer (lol) players, golf players, etc) because they all require different skills and only the handfull of skills you like to see can be labeled as athlete according to the dictionary in your mind?


Good, very good. Seeing your post I can easily say that you didn't even read a single word in my post. Excellent.

QUOTE
Do you know how much brain activity you have when playing competitive games, your reactions have to be faster than someone who sees the ball coming from a mile away and you can't drop your concentration for a f*cking second or you lose. Is that enough physical proof to be labeled as an athlete?


By far the most ignorant post I've read here, you should have good concentration yes, no denying that but you simply fail to understand the meaning of Stamina. Plus you have once again ignored the rest of my post.

Edit @reform: Well you do have a point there yes no denying that but In my opinion calling a video gamer an athlete is downright pathetic. It just does not feel right.

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#84

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:42 AM Edited by Fireman, 15 July 2013 - 11:48 AM.

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Monday, Jul 15 2013, 11:21)
QUOTE
Haha, you did it again! Keep bringing up the terminology. So according to you they have to make a special recognition for gamers (same applies to board game players, NASCAR racers, hockey players, football players, soccer (lol) players, golf players, etc) because they all require different skills and only the handfull of skills you like to see can be labeled as athlete according to the dictionary in your mind?


Good, very good. Seeing your post I can easily say that you didn't even read a single word in my post. Excellent.

QUOTE
Do you know how much brain activity you have when playing competitive games, your reactions have to be faster than someone who sees the ball coming from a mile away and you can't drop your concentration for a f*cking second or you lose. Is that enough physical proof to be labeled as an athlete?


By far the most ignorant post I've read here, you should have good concentration yes, no denying that but you simply fail to understand the meaning of Stamina. Plus you have once again ignored the rest of my post.


Bitch, please, I quoted you, ofcourse I read it. But as said, your label of athlete is the one in your mind.

Oh so endurance isn't the ability to keep up an activity for a long period of time, and brain activity isn't physical according to you? And neither is using your hands, because we all know, hands are just weird things and you don't use them in any real sports. And it's not like pro gamers actually use their hands differently than new players, unlike pro football players who use they legs differently and better than amateur football players.


I didn't quote the rest of the post, because it was something completely offtopic and full of bullsh*t. Let me turn the same bullsh*t against you: I can play football against my nephew and I'll win and I can call myself a pro, but that's real life. It doesn't work like that in online competitive gaming, because you require endurance, patience, quick reactions and much more skill.

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#85

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Monday, Jul 15 2013, 11:21)


Edit @reform: Well you do have a point there yes no denying that but In my opinion calling a video gamer an athlete is downright pathetic. It just does not feel right.

And as I've been saying the whole time, people are entitled to that opinion. But peoples individual perspective on whether shooting, horse dancing, eSports, darts, or whatever are sports is just not relevent to this topic, as the classification of "athlete" (in relation to visas) is just there because no other classification exists.

The US Gov hasn't bothered to spend the time and money in creating another classification, as it would entitle the holder to the exact same rights as the athlete visa, but with another name. I wouldn't want the Gov to waste money on pushing that through when they can just give an athlete visa to people and be done with it.

With that out of the way, it's just down to what level of respect/appreciation people have for eSports and those who participate in them. I can easily understand that some people would think it ridiculous that people can make a career out of playing a certain game professionally, but really that's what all "actual" sports are too - a game played professionally.

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#86

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

''Pro athlete''

user posted image

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#87

Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE (reform @ Monday, Jul 15 2013, 21:21)
But peoples individual perspective on whether shooting, horse dancing, eSports, darts, or whatever are sports is just not relevent to this topic, as the classification of "athlete" (in relation to visas) is just there because no other classification exists.

Yeah it's all about that technicality of the term. Perhaps "eAthlete" because I know playing any game competitive enough professionally takes a lot of skill and dedication, of course some sport athletes 'work' harder than others. There won't be any leg breaking training sessions, years of physical training of your body and/or with injuries or finger breaking finishes in a swimming event dedication while playing on a keyboard and mouse eh? I watch games played competitively like LoL or fighting games and tournaments like EVO 2013 (which was awesome).

I wouldn't call them athletes or dart, snooker, .etc players either. I welcome easier visas and such for international players to come in a play or to depart and go to venues, and that's a good thing. Am I jealous of people getting big money from playing a game, a bit yes; do I hate them for it? No. Would I call them athletes? No, but they're are professionals.

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#88

Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:14 PM

That's about the crux of it yes.


If we do want to get into what is an athlete and what isn't, I honestly don't know where I stand.

I think Fireman & others have given enough evidence to support that professional competative gamers (That doesn't mean they're just good, it means they're good enough to get paid to do it. Pretty big difference) do possess certain mental and physical traits found in other realms of "sport". Quick thinking, tactically minded, highly dexterous, insanely fast hands/fingers... But such traits can also exist in things I wouldn't initially have considered as a sport...

Maybe terms like "sport" and "athlete" aren't broad enough to encompass all forms of competition, or maybe we just don't think broadly enough. Maybe the classical definitions of sport are outdated.

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#89

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

It's just seems that the main reason for objection of calling them athletes isn't due to the fact that the definition of athlete doesn't strictly apply to pro-gamers (but again, this is all semantics of terminology), but is due to people seeing sport as something above gaming and shouldn't be compared to the level of sports.
I'm not sure if this is the case but I don't think people would seriously debate so harshly on something as trivial as the meaning of the words 'sport' and 'athletes'.

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#90

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (d0mm2k8 @ Monday, Jul 15 2013, 11:20)
It's just seems that the main reason for objection of calling them athletes isn't due to the fact that the definition of athlete doesn't strictly apply to pro-gamers (but again, this is all semantics of terminology), but is due to people seeing sport as something above gaming and shouldn't be compared to the level of sports.
I'm not sure if this is the case but I don't think people would seriously debate so harshly on something as trivial as the meaning of the words 'sport' and 'athletes'.

This.

Gaming isn't a sport, atleast not in my eyes, we know how I feel about that but it does require some brain use and effort in some of that games that are out there. I believe gaming is just a separate activity than that of a sport or anywhere near the realm of a sport. Perhaps gaming is or should just stick to being the community that it already is. It's just fine as is.. I don't think that gaming is below sports or vice versa. Yes, gaming is competitive, as a lot of activities in life are, as humans we all have competitiveness in us, it's natural.

To be honest, I've never even heard of League of Legends until recently.




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