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US Gov now recognises LoL pros as athletes

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GunWrath
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#31

Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (reform @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 14:48)
The article is misleading being as it is LoL-centric, but the "athlete" status applies to professional eSports players across the board, not just LoL. And the fact that Chess, Poker, and "eSports" don't fit the traditional definition of sport doesn't actually matter in the slightest.

eSports are becoming bigger and bigger, and the revenue they generate is the reason this is happening. America apparently wants in on that revenue and as such has elected to make it easier for professional players to travel there for events.

I still feel that you're missing the crucial point of "athlete" status being a technicality. There's no point in the US Gov creating a whole new catagory for the purposes of visas. Pro Chess players, Pro Poker players, etc. are all afforded the same privileges .

No, gaming is becoming bigger and bigger and they want to capitalize on the opportunity to generate tax income, like Darrin mentioned. Not 'eSports' .. the casual gamer is the larger majority of gaming period not the hardcore gamers into tournaments and competitive gaming. I don't think them using the term 'athlete' is a technicality. They wouldn't throw that word out there if they didn't mean it. They use the term athlete because it refers to a competitive activity and believe they are in fact 'athletes', when they truly aren't. Anyone can become a master of gaming. Not anyone can become a master of physical sport such as football, soccer, discus, javelin, etc. Which is why when they use the term athlete, I develop spit in my mouth out of disgust.

Gamers looking into a screen playing a game that uses buttons as manipulation is in no form a sport nor are they athletes. But I'm done debating, we'll just agree to disagree man. icon14.gif

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#32

Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (GunWrath @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 21:09)
Anyone can become a master of gaming.

If only.

reform
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#33

Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

Wow you just don't get it Gun.


By the way, if playing eSports professionally is so easy, why don't you try to get into the next big starcraft event? I'm sure you'll win it.

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#34

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

I don't play StarCraft and I have a family man, don't have that type of time on my hands.

Gaming is easy though.. It's not like a 80's Pac-Man game where you have to master the arts of paths to get the highest score. Why are you so hooked on this being a sport or something? Are you one of the adult-kids that play this type of sh*t?

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#35

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:49 PM Edited by reform, 13 July 2013 - 10:52 PM.

Well I thought you were done debating, but I guess in retrospect you never really started.

No, I'm just kind of astounded at your na´vety regarding the topic. I find it rather anoying when people have strong and vocal opinions on a subject when they clearly don't understand the first thing about it.

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#36

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

I absolutely understand it but like you say, it's an opinion. If it affects you that much, you're in the wrong place my friend.

Chalk this up as experience and move on and let someone else share their opinion on the discussion. Discontinue the argument.

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#37

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:56 PM

They are not athletes, they are competitors. It is like a sport, minus the athleticism. Sounds like this journalist put in a buzzword to get more readers.

They put Halo 3 on one of the sports channels a couple years back, must have been a dead night in arenas around the world.

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#38

Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

I don't recall bringing opinions into this Gun.

I can factually state that pro esports players (that is, people who play a certain game for a living), are certainly skilled. Bear in mind this is competitive play. They play against other people, not a predictable AI.

If anyone could do it, everyone would be doing it.

With a traditional sport, in most cases anyone can play it. So by your logic, almost all major sports aren't a sport because they are "easy", but that is just on the surface. Just because I can play football, doesn't mean anyone can play professionally. The same applies to eSports.

So no, it's not opinion vs. opinion, it's you being wrong vs. me being right on a fundamental level.

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#39

Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:19 PM

QUOTE
It doesn't offend me.. but this is just beyond ridiculous. If anything, why League of Legends? Lmfao. We might as well have a 'eSport' for every genre/game then eh? Next thing you know, it'll be in the Olympics as well? Since it's a'sport' and provides the world with 'athletes'. Let's add Texting as a sport too since it involves electronics.


I'd say they're only calling it a sport because of a lack of a better word/To fit it into the pre existing visa requirements rather than making a new gaming category summit like that.

QUOTE
They wouldn't throw that word out there if they didn't mean it. They use the term athlete because it refers to acompetitive activity and believe they are in fact 'athletes', when they truly aren't. Anyone can become amaster of gaming. Not anyone can become a master of physical sport such as football, soccer, discus, javelin, etc.


while I agree that physical sports require far more training and practice and skill, I don't agree anyone can become a master gamer, just like physical athletes some people are better than others regardless of play time, perhaps some players are smarter, or others simply have nimbler hands that allow for more precision movements.


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#40

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:11 AM

f*ck all of you archaic sh*tbags saying this is dumb. If you for one second followed and understood the work and talent that goes into being a world-class League or Starcraft player I might be willing to take your opinion seriously, but you don't and you never will. We're in the god damn twenty first century, our world is digital, the fact that this didn't happen sooner is an absolute travesty.

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#41

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (The-King @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 00:11)
f*ck all of you archaic sh*tbags saying this is dumb. If you for one second followed and understood the work and talent that goes into being a world-class League or Starcraft player I might be willing to take your opinion seriously, but you don't and you never will. We're in the god damn twenty first century, our world is digital, the fact that this didn't happen sooner is an absolute travesty.


Well, that was pretty angry...

But I agree.

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#42

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:45 AM

QUOTE (Mr.Mister @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 22:56)
They are not athletes, they are competitors. It is like a sport, minus the athleticism. Sounds like this journalist put in a buzzword to get more readers.
This.

They get recognized for being professional (lmao) gamers wich is ok, but calling them athletes is perhaps a step too far.

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#43

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE (tuareg @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 18:45)
QUOTE (Mr.Mister @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 22:56)
They are not athletes, they are competitors. It is like a sport, minus the athleticism. Sounds like this journalist put in a buzzword to get more readers.
This.

They get recognized for being professional (lmao) gamers wich is ok, but calling them athletes is perhaps a step too far.


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#44

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (Mr.Mister @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 22:56)
They are not athletes, they are competitors. It is like a sport, minus the athleticism. Sounds like this journalist put in a buzzword to get more readers.

I didn't even see Mr. Mister's post and I simply would of 'This.' posted myself. Totally agree and nicely put.

QUOTE
recognized for being professional (lmao) gamers


Exactly.

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#45

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:00 AM

QUOTE (The-King @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 00:49)
QUOTE (tuareg @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 18:45)
QUOTE (Mr.Mister @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 22:56)
They are not athletes, they are competitors. It is like a sport, minus the athleticism. Sounds like this journalist put in a buzzword to get more readers.
This.

They get recognized for being professional (lmao) gamers wich is ok, but calling them athletes is perhaps a step too far.


I don't get it. Does that prove why they are considered athletes and not just competitors?

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#46

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:01 AM

QUOTE (Fireman @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 05:13)
QUOTE (GunWrath @ Saturday, Jul 13 2013, 21:09)
Anyone can become a master of gaming.

If only.

Still waiting for Video Game College

reform
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#47

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

Wow, so Gun, all you were arguing over was whether they were athletes or not? I've consistently stated that the term was a technicality, and I now realise you must not have understood what that meant.

I myself don't quite know where I stand on that inconsequential aspect. Is a darts player an athlete? Is a snooker player an athlete? Maybe the problem is that the term "athlete" is not broad enough to deal with all possible competitive activities?

I just don't understand your resentment towards pro-esports players, regardless of the terminology.

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#48

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:26 AM

Because it's not a sport, reform. Of course Darts players aren't athletes, neither are Snooker players. That's like saying a pornstar is an athlete, pretty much sums up this whole entire ordeal. But I would say that a Darts player or Snooker player has more talent than that of someone sitting infront of the television screen all-day or monitor wouldn't you say? Can't argue that.

In what way do you classify what these people are doing as a sport or should even be in the same category as a sport. Like I said before, then everything we do in life would be categorized as some form of sport then. Masturbating, Eating, Board Games, Graphics, Forums, list goes on and on. We do a number of things in life with a competitive sense but that doesn't classify that I'm engaging in some sort of sport. Like you and I debating your infatuation over 'esports', would you classify us playing a sport then? Since we're being competitive.

I don't care what you say man, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I don't think they're athletes nor do I think competitive gaming should be considered a f*cking sport. You think the opposite. Let it rest already.

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#49

Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:25 AM

You really havn't understood a single thing I've said.

I didn't say is was a sport

I didn't say they were athletes

You said that I'd said that. You're arguing against a position that only exists in your head.

Whether it's a sport or not and whether they're athletes has nothing to do with anything.


Of all the nonsense that you've managed to type, I think the pinnacle is that being a pornstar is as much of a sport as being a pro snooker player...

... With that in mind, I can see that you're really not worth debating with.

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#50

Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

QUOTE
I didn't say is was a sport

I didn't say they were athletes


Dude, seriously? You've stated multiple times that it's a sport.


QUOTE
You're arguing against a position that only exists in your head.


What? I can guarantee I'm not the only one who has the same opinion as myself.. so no, it doesn't only exist in my head though I'm sure you wish that were the case though, yeah? Not only are you not debating correctly or worth reading, you try by being insulting which leads to the conclusion that you're offended or even believing what I'm saying and just have absolutely nothing to say.

I'll go with that last part. Just end the debate man, quit firing it back up or I'll continue to reply. No sense in derailing this topic any further.

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#51

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

Sure we can kill the debate, but just try and find one instance in which I say it's a sport. It didn't happen.

And note: I didn't say your position only exists in your head. I said the position you were arguing against only exists in your head.

Your arguments against me have no relevance to anything I say.

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#52

Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:33 PM

I'm really glad that Society is becoming excepting towords gamers. it's about time gamers got equal rights, damnit!

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#53

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (tuareg @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 01:45)
professional (lmao)

What's with the 'lmao'? They're professional because they get paid.

A lot of people are seeing this as "What? I play games and I'm really good but I don't get called an athlete. This is stupid, games aren't as on the same level as sports".
The only difference between videogames and sports is that one's digital and the other's physical. They're both games, forms of entertainment that require a lot of skill at a professional competitive level.
Yeah, playing StarCraft II's campaign doesn't make you a professional SCII player, in the same way kicking a football about with friends doesn't make you a professional footballer. But to play in tournaments in either football or StarCraft? It requires a lot of skill, and people are willing to watch these competitions. Due to this there are sponsorships and f*ck load of money to be had.

You can argue the semantics of the necessity of physical activity to be a sport or an athlete but at the end of the day professional sports and videogames are both just skillful people playing games that a lot of people like watching.

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#54

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (d0mm2k8 @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:08)
QUOTE (tuareg @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 01:45)
professional (lmao)

What's with the 'lmao'? They're professional because they get paid.

A lot of people are seeing this as "What? I play games and I'm really good but I don't get called an athlete. This is stupid, games aren't as on the same level as sports".
The only difference between videogames and sports is that one's digital and the other's physical. They're both games, forms of entertainment that require a lot of skill at a professional competitive level.
Yeah, playing StarCraft II's campaign doesn't make you a professional SCII player, in the same way kicking a football about with friends doesn't make you a professional footballer. But to play in tournaments in either football or StarCraft? It requires a lot of skill, and people are willing to watch these competitions. Due to this there are sponsorships and f*ck load of money to be had.

You can argue the semantics of the necessity of physical activity to be a sport or an athlete but at the end of the day professional sports and videogames are both just skillful people playing games that a lot of people like watching.

Agreed.


FPS and RST are often played at professional level, and if you've ever played CS with professional players it becomes obvious that their ability warrants sponsorship. I really don't see why this is causing a fuss.

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#55

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

I can move to america now, I will just have to start playing this game to get in.

It doesn't say you have to be good at the game to be an athlete does it...

Cha-ching.

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#56

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:17 PM Edited by AceKingston, 15 July 2013 - 10:55 AM.

QUOTE (d0mm2k8 @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 20:38)
QUOTE (tuareg @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 01:45)
professional (lmao)

What's with the 'lmao'? They're professional because they get paid.

A lot of people are seeing this as "What? I play games and I'm really good but I don't get called an athlete. This is stupid, games aren't as on the same level as sports".
The only difference between videogames and sports is that one's digital and the other's physical. They're both games, forms of entertainment that require a lot of skill at a professional competitive level.
Yeah, playing StarCraft II's campaign doesn't make you a professional SCII player, in the same way kicking a football about with friends doesn't make you a professional footballer. But to play in tournaments in either football or StarCraft? It requires a lot of skill, and people are willing to watch these competitions. Due to this there are sponsorships and f*ck load of money to be had.

You can argue the semantics of the necessity of physical activity to be a sport or an athlete but at the end of the day professional sports and videogames are both just skillful people playing games that a lot of people like watching.

You're forgetting it's a virtual video game

There is a difference between virtual and reality.

So you're trying to say that they can be called athletes? Really?

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#57

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:29 PM Edited by reform, 14 July 2013 - 03:34 PM.

QUOTE (Daz @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:14)
I can move to america now, I will just have to start playing this game to get in.

It doesn't say you have to be good at the game to be an athlete does it...

Cha-ching.

It does't allow you to just go live there... And you have to be good. Often you need a sponsor or have the money yourself to pay to take part in competition. You only do that if you're good, and if you're not doing that, you're not a pro, and so the new rules don't apply to you...

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:17)

You're forgetting it's a virtual video game

There is a difference between virtual and reality.

So you're trying to say that they can be called athletes? Really? turn.gif

Did you read anything he just wrote?


Why are people getting so bogged down in the terminolgy/semantics. It's just a f*cking technicallity. Whether you think they are athletes or not or whether you think eSports are sport of not DOESN'T f*ckING MATTER.

Sounds like people are just jealous that some folks out there are getting paid to play games.

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#58

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE (reform @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:29)
QUOTE (Daz @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:14)
I can move to america now, I will just have to start playing this game to get in.

It doesn't say you have to be good at the game to be an athlete does it...

Cha-ching.

It does't allow you to just go live there... And you have to be good. Often you need a sponsor or have the money yourself to pay to take part in competition. You only do that if you're good, and if you're not doing that, you're not a pro, and so the new rules don't apply to you...

Everything is open for a scam.

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#59

Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE (Daz @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:32)
QUOTE (reform @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:29)
QUOTE (Daz @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 15:14)
I can move to america now, I will just have to start playing this game to get in.

It doesn't say you have to be good at the game to be an athlete does it...

Cha-ching.

It does't allow you to just go live there... And you have to be good. Often you need a sponsor or have the money yourself to pay to take part in competition. You only do that if you're good, and if you're not doing that, you're not a pro, and so the new rules don't apply to you...

Everything is open for a scam.

Do you have a point or are you just going to keep talking about irrelevent "what if's"? There's plenty of easier and cheaper ways to get into America.

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#60

Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (AceKingston @ Sunday, Jul 14 2013, 16:17)
You're forgetting it's a virtual video game

There is a difference between virtual and reality.

You know you're not making a good point at all here. Yeah the playing field is virtual, but the people playing are in reality. They are real people competing against each other and just because it's in a virtual setting doesn't mean a damn thing.

QUOTE
So you're trying to say that they can be called athletes? Really? turn.gif
No, I'm trying to say it doesn't matter in the slightest if we do call them athletes since it's only terminology.




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