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Annoyingly hard missions

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vadTM
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#31

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

The problem with the mission is that Smokes shooting is very inconsistent, so sometimes he will just shoot all over the train, hardly doing damage on the guys standing on top of it. I remember when I first played it on PS2 it took me about 10 tries and it was frustrating as hell. On a recent playthrough the guys on the train were dead before we even entered that first tunnel.

wwinterj
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#32

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:57 PM Edited by wwinterj, 04 July 2013 - 02:00 PM.

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:46)
No at all, I enjoy a good challenge, but GTA games have a habit of crossing the line between fun and frustrating, between skillfully difficult and cheaply difficult.

I'm not sure we play the same games. GTA games have never been difficult. I really hope some of GTA Vs missions offer more of a challenge. The heists seem to provide that at least as you must pull it off perfect. We shall see.

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#33

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE (wwinterj @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 13:57)
QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:46)
No at all, I enjoy a good challenge, but GTA games have a habit of crossing the line between fun and frustrating, between skillfully difficult and cheaply difficult.

I'm not sure we play the same games. GTA games have never been difficult. I really hope some of GTA Vs missions offer more of a challenge.

SA was (in my opinion) the hardest game in the series, and like I said, most of that hardness came from the random nature of the missions. Replaying the same mission over and over stops becoming fun in my opinion.

That's why I am suggesting they add more choices to the missions. Keep them hard for players that are very straightforward in their approach, but also reward those who try to be creative. This IS an open world game after all, choices are everywhere.

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#34

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

Like Death Row in VC. I just spawned a Rhino for that haha.

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#35

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

The only problem I had with all my failures was that you had to go aaaaall the way back to Smoke's house to restart it. This made me change my playstyle to one of saving before each mission, and reloading upon failure.

This was the same with all similar missions - failure left you high and dry. it would have been a lot less frustrating if the game auto saved at the beginning and then asked if you want to retry. IIRC that option in IV came with a patch on the 360 (?)

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#36

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (JOSEPH X @ Friday, Jul 5 2013, 01:11)
The only problem I had with all my failures was that you had to go aaaaall the way back to Smoke's house to restart it. This made me change my playstyle to one of saving before each mission, and reloading upon failure.

This was the same with all similar missions - failure left you high and dry. it would have been a lot less frustrating if the game auto saved at the beginning and then asked if you want to retry. IIRC that option in IV came with a patch on the 360 (?)

GTA IV fixed that problem having a replay option in the phone. wink.gif

wwinterj
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#37

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:02)
That's why I am suggesting they add more choices to the missions. Keep them hard for players that are very straightforward in their approach, but also reward those who try to be creative. This IS an open world game after all, choices are everywhere.

The major heists themselves seem to have one set path but it's your choice how you approach them. I understand where your coming from but don't imagine it will change. I would love it if you could fail a heist and it effect the story.

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#38

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

Difficult is subjective. You can see that from reading this thread. I think that most people approach one mission a certain way and don't think about alternative approaches. having a hard time? Something taking forever?
Watch a speed run of any of these games. There is always a way to do it faster and more efficiently.

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#39

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

I actually think we need hard missions. Since V is based on heists and whatnot, I think every mission is going to be hard in one way or another, much much harder than IV at the least. IV's missions were TOO easy.

GTAaLEX117
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#40

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (wwinterj @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:14)
QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:02)
That's why I am suggesting they add more choices to the missions. Keep them hard for players that are very straightforward in their approach, but also reward those who try to be creative. This IS an open world game after all, choices are everywhere.

The major heists themselves seem to have one set path but it's your choice how you approach them. I understand where your coming from but don't imagine it will change. I would love it if you could fail a heist and it effect the story.

The heists (a.k.a. plan your mission) are something I've been waiting a long time to see. That and the mission replay feature are great additions.
But I was mostly referring to the missions outside the heists, the ones regarding the lives of the characters. Like the one you can see in trailer 2 where Michael has to position his car to catch his son who is hanging from a boat. In that situation, for example, they could let you choose your own car to use. Or even better, tell you where they are heading so you can take the shortest path.

Gta III was really flexible, most missions allowed you to be very creative. With SA and IV, the missions became a lot more rigid. I wish they'd go back to how they used to do things.

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#41

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

You could always just do this:


GTAaLEX117
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#42

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

QUOTE (michaelpece @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:51)
You could always just do this:

Nice. I tried this with the bike since I was afraid that if I left smoke behind the mission would auto fail, and the bike just couldn't stay on top of it.

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#43

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:00)
QUOTE (michaelpece @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:51)
You could always just do this:

Nice. I tried this with the bike since I was afraid that if I left smoke behind the mission would auto fail, and the bike just couldn't stay on top of it.

Actually you can get the bike on top of the train.



@2.10

michaelpece
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#44

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

I wonder if those ramps were put there on purpose.. It seems very likely.

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#45

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

How was Wrong Side Of The Tracks hard?


Smoke says it himself. All you have to do is follow the damn train. If his bullets hit the train, then move further away, and he kills them instantly. It can be done first time every time.

As for Supply Lines, that's not hard. Line up your plane at the front, shoot the engine, and it'll be on fire then explode. Same with the bikes except for the plane guns instantly kill.

Rewards for being "creative" are mostly rubbish tbh. Anyone can spawn a Rhino with a cheatcode and just drive through the mission, or have an unlimited ammo rocket machine pistol and fire one shot and get mission complete.

And for the record, IV rewarded creativity. For one mission, they actually laid out a way to climb up on to the rooftop, take down a sniper, and take everyone down from up there. It's the one where you have to destroy a bunch of vans.

GTAaLEX117
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#46

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:24 PM Edited by GTAaLEX117, 04 July 2013 - 03:35 PM.

QUOTE (Deacon Bosco @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:04)
QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:00)
QUOTE (michaelpece @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:51)
You could always just do this:

Nice. I tried this with the bike since I was afraid that if I left smoke behind the mission would auto fail, and the bike just couldn't stay on top of it.

Actually you can get the bike on top of the train.
@2.10

That makes it look very easy but trust me, it's not. If you don't hit the train properly, you'll bounce of. And if you hit the edge, it's pretty hard to recover.

@LazyboyEight: The Smoke mission can be either very easy, or incredibly hard. It's all down to the random AI that you simply cannot control. Even in the perfect circumstances, Smoke could still miss.

Also, the reward for being creative is being able to finish the mission in an easier way, so creativity itself is a reward. By creativity I don't mean cheats, I mean true alternate paths and methods created by the developers.
I just don't understand how a game this open can have such restrictive missions. I mean, the barrier between free roaming and "doing missions" is absolutely huge.
Both SA and IV had very few missions that actually encouraged you to be creative, the rest were pretty strict. By comparison, III was very flexible.

godforgivesthelostdont
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#47

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:37 PM

I loved Wrong Side of the Tracks. It provided a perfect amount of difficulty without being unfair. The only part I didnt like was driving all the way back to BS's house if I failed it.


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#48

Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

all of gta missions are really easy. it is definitely a game for casual gamers.

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#49

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:12 PM

I hate it when you finally figure out how to beat a mission and when your close some stupid porgaming problem causes you to f*ck up and pretty much makes you fail the mission.

I also hate those missions that are supposed to be easy but are hard as constipated sh#t because of a poor design. Just look at AC1. I only know 2 people out of 10 who finished that devil game. I was one and I'm sure that I got lucky at some point after attempting a mission soo many times.

The last brotherhood mission also was dificlut but I think it was my fault.

Anyways, point is I have a habbit of finishing games now(not 100%) but when a mission impossible blocks me then I get angry and can't think straight so. Still fail. Only after I calm down can I do it after a few more tries.

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#50

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (22ka @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 18:12)
Anyways, point is I have a habbit of finishing games now(not 100%) but when a mission impossible blocks me then I get angry and can't think straight so. Still fail. Only after I calm down can I do it after a few more tries.

biggrin.gif Same here. They usually become so aggravating that I just want them to be over so I can progress, at that stage I'm no longer having fun.

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#51

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

I love hard/ Challenging games and missions myself.

Guess one reason i love Killing Floor, IL2 1946 missions etc.

Train one was annoying but not hard, RC planes from VC & SA i found incredibly easy and enjoyed a lot. I hope we see some of those again.

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#52

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 12:35)
Those missions would have to be the incredibly hard ones that only allow you only ONE single, restrictive and hard way of completing them. Case in point: the Zero missions, Wrong side of the tracks, and many others.
These types of missions basically punish player for trying to be creative, involve a lot of luck and they offer no other ways of completing them. Failing them and having to replay through them in the same way time and time again proves to be incredibly annoying.

Well said, I agree. Having multiple ways to play through a certain mission does not only make it more simple in certain occasions, it would improve the reply value as well. It's a given that we will be able to play plenty of missions in more than one way, considering that there is not only one protagonist, but even three. So the problem you have just described already will be solved alone because of multiple protagonists. However, it would be nonetheless cool to give each character multiple ways to play through a mission. The more possibilities you have the better it is, if it's done properly.

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#53

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

NOTE: I've finished GTA SA more than 20+ times.

People who failed the mission countless of times; I don't think it's their fault. The game's AI wasn't efficient enough to aim properly. Big Smoke kept on shooting the train when he should have targeted the enemies instead. And seeing that it was a PS2 game, the developers had no intention of realism purposes.

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#54

Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

I actually love those hard missions. But only the ones from the PS2 era. It was so fun trying to find all different kinds of ways to beat that one mission. That's when I called my cousins and friends and asked them if they could help. Good ol days...I think GTA V should have at least 4-6 missions that is annoyingly hard.

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#55

Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

IMO it was always the engine / dumb AI / poor controls that got in the way.

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#56

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (Miamivicecity @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:10)
Like Death Row in VC. I just spawned a Rhino for that haha.

I'm still stuck on that mission. suicidal.gif

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#57

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

I'd rather missions be entertaining than ridiculously challenging.

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#58

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:21 PM

i'm playing TLATD for the first time currently and am tired of annoyingly easy missions.

$900 to steal a slow motorcycle from one guy who doesn't even try to get away from me or fight back? no police chase? could have sent a cab driver to do my "job" meh

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#59

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE (voyager @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 20:21)
i'm playing TLATD for the first time currently and am tired of annoyingly easy missions.

$900 to steal a slow motorcycle from one guy who doesn't even try to get away from me or fight back? no police chase? could have sent a cab driver to do my "job" meh

I'm not suggesting to make the missions easy, they should still have hard missions but just allow us to use some creative strategies in how we can approach them when the standard way starts to get annoyingly difficult.

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#60

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:52 PM Edited by _StackS_, 04 July 2013 - 08:58 PM.

QUOTE (Miamivicecity @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 14:10)
Like Death Row in VC. I just spawned a Rhino for that haha.

Yessss! That personally was one of my hardest missions of all time. My biggest problem was when I was driving out my car would catch on fire so I had to hop out run and steal another one but either three things would happen
1: I get ran over or shot to death before I find a car
2: Lance gets ran over, shot to death, or dies in the explosion of my car because he didn't run away fast enough
3: I would get lucky and be able to switch cars with lance alive but because of all the other cars hitting me and messing me up lance would bleed out and mission fail

Now I know this is going to sound stupid. Out of all the hard annoying missions I have to say while its frustrating and you might break a few controllers along the way... its all worth it. There is just a great feeling once you see the words mission passed. Its so rewarding because of all the difficulty you went through. Its like this really hot chick in highschool and you wanna get with her but she's hard to get so you put time into it. Almost like a project. You don't cheat and just get her drunk but rather actually get to know her and have her want you. Time passes and wala soon you get in her pants and who knows you might actually like her for more than her looks. Maybe not. But yea. That type of rewarding feeling. That's what I got when I passed death row...

But as for hard annoying missions. Well there needs to be more in gta v compared to iv. I have gotta say I can't remember one time in iv where I got frustrated at a mission. Just waay too easy. Seriously. V needs to have 10 times more difficutly. I will be upset if its not. I will write a 10 page essay to R* telling them to update gta v to make it more difficult. Jk. But seriously. More difficulty




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