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Annoyingly hard missions

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GTAaLEX117
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#1

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:35 AM

While many threads around here seem to be about mission types that people dislike, I though I'd discuss about missions that annoy me as well:

Those missions would have to be the incredibly hard ones that only allow you only ONE single, restrictive and hard way of completing them. Case in point: the Zero missions, Wrong side of the tracks, and many others.
These types of missions basically punish player for trying to be creative, involve a lot of luck and they offer no other ways of completing them. Failing them and having to replay through them in the same way time and time again proves to be incredibly annoying.
It always astounded me how a game series as open as GTA can have such restrictive missions, and how the barrier between main missions and free roaming can be so large.

Now I understand that some people like a good challenge, the problem is when that challenge turns into frustration. When that fine line is broken and you just want to get the missions over with so you can find out the rest of the story or access the rest of the map.

What I would suggest is not to make the missions easier, but to have alternate paths. That way, they reward creativity, and when players aren't creative, they reward sheer gaming skill. For me, finding a creative way to finish a mission is JUST as rewarding as finally managing to finish a very restrictive and hard mission.

Ex: If they ever implement a "Wrong side of the tracks" type mission, they could also include some extra ways of finishing the mission. How about adding some hidden ramps (where you need to drive ahead of the train and arrange them) which you could use to jump onto the train (and stay there) so your AI partner can kill the enemies faster. In return, the AIs on the train may bail out and the mission will then be about hunting them down on-foot in the countryside. Or how about having a hidden cache, where you can drive your motorbike and your passenger will then be equipped with a high powered weapon and he can kill the AIs on the train much easier and faster.

Basically, I am suggesting they implement a bit more creativity into all of the missions, and to abandon the restrictive, "only one way to complete" types of missions.
What do you guys think?

highnrich
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#2

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:43 AM

i dont liek hard gams because im no pro and i have real life so r* better make that game not that hard icon14.gif

GTAaLEX117
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#3

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE (highnrich @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:43)
i dont liek hard gams because im no pro and i have real life so r* better make that game not that hard  icon14.gif

No at all, I enjoy a good challenge, but GTA games have a habit of crossing the line between fun and frustrating, between skillfully difficult and cheaply difficult.

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#4

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:49 AM

There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

Dale Nixon
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#5

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

All he had to do was follow the damn train! I agree.

GTAaLEX117
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#6

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

It's actually easy to follow the train (it goes pretty slow even though sometimes it accelerates out of the blue). I can't control Sweet's horrible aiming AI though...

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#7

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:52 AM

Wrong Side Of The Tracks was frustrating because Smoke couldn't shoot for sh*t. Though I hear what you're saying.

More freedom for every mission is welcomed. Not just the hard ones.

Dale Nixon
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#8

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:52)
QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

It's actually easy to follow the train (it goes pretty slow even though sometimes it accelerates out of the blue). I can't control Sweet's horrible aiming AI though...

Damn, Sweet gained some weight, man.

locnessscotland
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#9

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

Oh I hated that mission

OT: But I hope they reduce the amount of difficult mission

GTAaLEX117
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#10

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

QUOTE (locnessscotland @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:55)
OT: But I hope they reduce the amount of difficult mission

Well, not necessarily reduce them, just make them more creative.

G.S.T
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#11

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

I actually managed to complete Wrong Side of the Tracks on the first try, I guess I was lucky.

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#12

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

If you don't want challenge, go play Assassins Creed 2, Brotherhood, Revelations and 3.
All you need to do is push one button and watch. YAY!

There has not been a _hard_ mission in GTA, ever.
Reason you fail is that you don't know how to play. And learning is part of the fun.

For example this "notorious" Wrong side of the track.
Usually problem is, that you drive too close to the train and Smoke can't smoke'em. Leave room between you and train -> insta-success.
Or be creative, drive ahead, shoot the train driver -> train stops -> kill enemy.
Or be creative, jump on the train -> kill enemy.

Zero's missions? Naah, only challenging one was the last, and that because I had not mastered controlling the helicopters.


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#13

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

QUOTE (YukiEiri @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:33)
If you don't want challenge, go play Assassins Creed 2, Brotherhood, Revelations and 3.
All you need to do is push one button and watch. YAY!

There has not been a _hard_ mission in GTA, ever.
Reason you fail is that you don't know how to play. And learning is part of the fun.

For example this "notorious" Wrong side of the track.
Usually problem is, that you drive too close to the train and Smoke can't smoke'em. Leave room between you and train -> insta-success.
Or be creative, drive ahead, shoot the train driver -> train stops -> kill enemy.
Or be creative, jump on the train -> kill enemy.

Zero's missions? Naah, only challenging one was the last, and that because I had not mastered controlling the helicopters.

got ourselves a badass over here

ProTrainFollower
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#14

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:38 AM

We need more stupidly hard missions.

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#15

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:39 AM

For the most part I agree with OP
There are many missions that are simply impossible for the average gamer to complete .
There are so many skill levels of gamers it would be impossible to cater to them all . IDK this subject has such a thin line ... you want a challenge but yes you want it to be fun .. after 20 attempts on a mission the fun is completely gone . fun turns to anger and frustration and that sucks .
Only dedication has gotten me as far along as I am in this series . Whether it takes me 1 attempt or 100 attempts I do not give up .
Perhaps they could implement a system where if a mission is failed so many times that AI could adapt to the individual gamer and lessen the difficulty of the mission.

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#16

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE (Dale Nixon @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:51)
QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

All he had to do was follow the damn train! I agree.

This was one of the easiest missions in San Andreas. Don't know what the problem was/is. yawn.gif

On-Topic: I like hard missions.

vivalavendredi
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#17

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (Simon_V @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:39)
QUOTE (Dale Nixon @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:51)
QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

All he had to do was follow the damn train! I agree.

This was one of the easiest missions in San Andreas. Don't know what the problem was/is. yawn.gif

On-Topic: I like hard missions.

You lucky bastard biggrin.gif
But sometimes this happens. In IV I was afraid when reading peoples moaning about "three leaf clover" - I made it at the first try smile.gif

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#18

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:46 AM

QUOTE (Gst0395 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 08:30)
I actually managed to complete Wrong Side of the Tracks on the first try, I guess I was lucky.

I never failed Wrong Side of the Tracks in my attempts, but I would always finish juuust before the bridge to San Fierro. Also, Supply Lines is easy once you figure out that you can glide around without pressing the accelerator button so you don't use up fuel unnecessarily.

GTAaLEX117
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#19

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (YukiEiri @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:33)
If you don't want challenge, go play Assassins Creed 2, Brotherhood, Revelations and 3.
All you need to do is push one button and watch. YAY!

There has not been a _hard_ mission in GTA, ever.
Reason you fail is that you don't know how to play. And learning is part of the fun.

For example this "notorious" Wrong side of the track.
Usually problem is, that you drive too close to the train and Smoke can't smoke'em. Leave room between you and train -> insta-success.
Or be creative, drive ahead, shoot the train driver -> train stops -> kill enemy.
Or be creative, jump on the train -> kill enemy.

Zero's missions? Naah, only challenging one was the last, and that because I had not mastered controlling the helicopters.

Like I said, I like a challenge, and I do think learning is part of the fun. The problem is when you still manage to fail even after you've learned what to do, mostly because of bad luck (stupid car drivers ramming into you, or other factors that you have no control over). Repeatedly failing a mission and becoming frustrated that you can't pass it is a real pain, and it stops becoming fun. Soon, you just want to be done with the mission...and is that really the purpose? You stop enjoying missions when you want them to be over fast.

In WSotT, even if you kept your distance, Smoke's faulty AI could still make you fail the mission. There were very few alternate paths. I did try jumping onto the train...but you couldn't stay there since the physics didn't really allow you (it wasn't really something the game wanted you to do). I didn't try to kill the train driver though, I never imagined that was possible monocle.gif

YukiEiri
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#20

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Dale Nixon @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:34)
got ourselves a badass over here

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#21

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

GTA V needs at least one annoyingly hard mission, and a little harder missions that IV had.

Dale Nixon
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#22

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE (YukiEiri @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 12:11)
QUOTE (Dale Nixon @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:34)
got ourselves a badass over here

YukiEiri
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Uuuuuuu...
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(I know that guy, he's crazy...)

care for some boiled leprechaun heart, my good man?

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#23

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

I consider myself a very average gamer, don't ever play anything on hard except for Skyrim, usually just leave it a normal and if I'm frustrated go down to easy. As such a gamer I've always considered GTA games to be pretty easy. The only missions I ever had problems with are:
- the one with 8 ball where you protect him with a sniper while he plants explosives (due to him running there too soon an dieing until I figured which guys to shoot first and which later)
- stowaway (at times do it in first try, and other times takes 50 damn tries to get it)
- End of the line, just the first time and only because of tha damn Feltzer (was it Feltzer?) that you must drive when chasing Tempenny. It's handling was horrible.

And I hate escort missions. But usually they weren't hard.

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#24

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

How can anyone possibly think "wrong side of the tracks" was difficult? What the hell was so hard about it? All you had to do was stay beside the train, and let Big Smoke do the work. A 5 year old could do it. It astounds me how bad at GTA games people are. Must all be retards.

GTAaLEX117
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#25

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:24 PM Edited by GTAaLEX117, 04 July 2013 - 12:27 PM.

QUOTE (Dope_0110 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 12:18)
- the one with 8 ball where you protect him with a sniper while he plants explosives (due to him running there too soon an dieing until I figured which guys to shoot first and which later)

I personally loved that mission, it was an example of a mission that allowed you to be creative. You could do what the guy told you, or you could just rush into the ship and kill those guys from close range, and fast. And the game didn't punish you for this. GTA III had tons of these creative missions.

@2491cc The problem why people have such different views on that mission is because Smoke's AI is completely random. Even IF you are positioned correctly, he can still miss. You had no real control over what he did. Sometimes you could do that mission right of the bat, sometimes you had to repeat it 10 times (at which point it stopped being fun).

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#26

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:25 PM

"Follow that guy but don't get too close" missions are just plain boring and annoying. They've been in so many games now, i'd hate to see them make a return in GTA V.

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#27

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (2491cc @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 13:24)
How can anyone possibly think "wrong side of the tracks" was difficult? What the hell was so hard about it? All you had to do was stay beside the train, and let Big Smoke do the work. A 5 year old could do it. It astounds me how bad at GTA games people are. Must all be retards.

It's all about luck. Even if you stay close, you can fail.

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#28

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE (GTAaLEX117 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 11:28)
QUOTE (locnessscotland @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:55)
OT: But I hope they reduce the amount of difficult mission

Well, not necessarily reduce them, just make them more creative.

Yeah thats what I was trying to say

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#29

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE (locnessscotland @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:55)
QUOTE (DarrenC1888 @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 10:49)
There is only one good reply to your detailed and thought provoking post;

Follow the damn train CJ!

Oh I hated that mission

OT: But I hope they reduce the amount of difficult mission

I don't see why people have such a problem with that mission, i did it first try.

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#30

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

For me Wrong Side Of The Tracks had a straight forward structure, but it's the fact Smoke had a mind of his own.

Sometimes you could be positioned perfectly and he would miss completely. Others he would be on the money.

Not so much of a difficult mission, but frustrating due to poor design IMO.




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