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No More President Morsi (Egypt President)

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sivispacem
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#121

Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:44 PM

So all your information on this is from citizens on the ground, complete with biases and subjectivity. And yet you think this is more valid than analysis by people whose sole role is to analyse events like this, provided by organisations whose sole purpose is to provide their clients with assessments of events like these-by which I'm referring to the various private intelligence providers and strategic forecasters as opposed to the media of any kind. Some of us don't depend on media or vague allusions to hearsay for our information you know.

Oh, and yours are hypotheses because they're unsupported, and to be frank make absolutely no sense for reasons I've already disclosed.

Chris Fromage
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#122

Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:18 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 14:44)
So all your information on this is from citizens on the ground, complete with biases and subjectivity. And yet you think this is more valid than analysis by people whose sole role is to analyse events like this, provided by organisations whose sole purpose is to provide their clients with assessments of events like these-by which I'm referring to the various private intelligence providers and strategic forecasters as opposed to the media of any kind. Some of us don't depend on media or vague allusions to hearsay for our information you know.

Oh, and yours are hypotheses because they're unsupported, and to be frank make absolutely no sense for reasons I've already disclosed.

Read again:

QUOTE
I got these things from contacts in Egypt, the news, politic discussion I see here and there, etc


Just a part of the information I got is from citizens in Egypt. I don't concentrate on just one source.
But sometimes they are more valid then what the big guys say. If you hear on the news that the army had to shoot on people because of self-defense, but then see a video where the army attacks a group in a mosque while they were praying, you should be able to make out whose information is more valid.

And my sources are just as supported as yours. The only difference is that mine are not from CNN, BBC or any other big Western news-channel. But what can I say...? Some people still think that bigger is better...

K20
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#123

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:03 PM

Mubarak is needed.

sivispacem
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#124

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

Chris, a rational human being completely disregards videos hosted on the Internet unless they can reasonably demonstrate the veracity of their source. Even then they don't exactly make a great source of informative evidence. You're also totally missing the point. I'm not asking you to quantify the army's shooting of unarmed protesters, I'm asking you how you can claim that the army are siphoning off international funding with the opposition when it was the ruling political party who were in charge of use and distribution of overseas contributions. Because that's the bit of your argument that smacks of Islamist desperation and political scapegoating the hardest.

Also, in case you weren't paying attention, I made it pretty clear that I don't use Western media as my primary source of information on this issue, but whatever straw man helps you sleep best at night...

OchyGTA
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#125

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 16:14)
Chris, a rational human being completely disregards videos hosted on the Internet unless they can reasonably demonstrate the veracity of their source. Even then they don't exactly make a great source of informative evidence. You're also totally missing the point. I'm not asking you to quantify the army's shooting of unarmed protesters, I'm asking you how you can claim that the army are siphoning off international funding with the opposition when it was the ruling political party who were in charge of use and distribution of overseas contributions. Because that's the bit of your argument that smacks of Islamist desperation and political scapegoating the hardest.

Also, in case you weren't paying attention, I made it pretty clear that I don't use Western media as my primary source of information on this issue, but whatever straw man helps you sleep best at night...

So out of curiosity, what do you use as a primary source?

sivispacem
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#126

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 17:36)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 16:14)
Chris, a rational human being completely disregards videos hosted on the Internet unless they can reasonably demonstrate the veracity of their source. Even then they don't exactly make a great source of informative evidence. You're also totally missing the point. I'm not asking you to quantify the army's shooting of unarmed protesters, I'm asking you how you can claim that the army are siphoning off international funding with the opposition when it was the ruling political party who were in charge of use and distribution of overseas contributions. Because that's the bit of your argument that smacks of Islamist desperation and political scapegoating the hardest.

Also, in case you weren't paying attention, I made it pretty clear that I don't use Western media as my primary source of information on this issue, but whatever straw man helps you sleep best at night...

So out of curiosity, what do you use as a primary source?

StratFor, RUSI, various university publications, Chatham House, IHS/Janes, ect ect.

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#127

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:57 PM

I just don't get it, all that's happening there.

Do they have no boundaries? don't they fricking care about themselves?
Morsi was going full retard on his own country, he was trying to steer the country for a temporary dictatorship, that's a goddamn reason to throw him rolling down the stairs of his own office.
Treating the people as if they were idiots, and now there are these mindless [moderate size] hordes of people, marching towards army bases wanting him back.
What are they expecting? I'm not surprised they were shot and I think neither should have they. Egypt is not a country known for tolerating violent or intimidating protests "for the sake of human rights".
They just should've known better.

OchyGTA
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#128

Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 16:49)
StratFor, RUSI, various university publications, Chatham House, IHS/Janes, ect ect.

Ah ok fair enough. Can't fault those really.

acmilano
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#129

Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

This doesn't sound good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-23522642

QUOTE
Egypt's military-backed government has ordered police to end sit-ins by supporters of ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in the capital Cairo.

"The cabinet has decided to take all measures necessary to confront these risks and put an end to them," an official said in a televised statement.

The statement termed the continued rallies "a national security threat".

Three top Muslim Brotherhood leaders have also been referred to court on charges of inciting violence.

The movement's supporters have been staging sit-ins for several weeks since President Morsi was removed on 3 July, after just one year in office.

They have defied previous threats of removal from their sit-in protests, despite deadly clashes with security forces.

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#130

Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:41 PM

user posted image

These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace.

QUOTE
Shocking footage has emerged of Egyptian children being dressed in white ‘death shrouds’ in preparation for their ‘martyrdom’ by pro-Morsi families in a large demonstration at Rabaa al-Adaweya.

The children were heard chanting pre-rehearsed lines and were seen carrying posters that say “I am ready to die!” during a short march.

Chris Fromage
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#131

Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:46 PM

QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 19:41)
These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace.

Those are not the only fanatics who puts there children on street for a man.
(or against in this case)

http://l.yimg.com/os...t-celebrate.jpg

RoadRunner71
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#132

Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:46)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 19:41)
These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace. 

Those are not the only fanatics who puts there children on street for a man.
(or against in this case)

http://l.yimg.com/os...t-celebrate.jpg

For god sake, it's not the same... Some are almost sacrifing their kids while the others are just in celebration with the soldiers confused.gif

Chris Fromage
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#133

Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:51)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:46)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 19:41)
These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace.  

Those are not the only fanatics who puts there children on street for a man.
(or against in this case)

http://l.yimg.com/os...t-celebrate.jpg

For god sake, it's not the same... Some are almost sacrifing their kids while the others are just in celebration with the soldiers confused.gif

Well, looking around on the internet, I always hear stories about the army getting attacked by protestors.
So those kids are just as much in danger as the kids who joining are protests..

RoadRunner71
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#134

Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:07 AM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:54)
QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:51)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 23:46)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 19:41)
These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace.  

Those are not the only fanatics who puts there children on street for a man.
(or against in this case)

http://l.yimg.com/os...t-celebrate.jpg

For god sake, it's not the same... Some are almost sacrifing their kids while the others are just in celebration with the soldiers confused.gif

Well, looking around on the internet, I always hear stories about the army getting attacked by protestors.
So those kids are just as much in danger as the kids who joining are protests..

user posted image

sighs...

EgyptianStar
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#135

Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 17:46)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 19:41)
These fanatics will martyr their own children for a man. What a disgrace. 

Those are not the only fanatics who puts there children on street for a man.
(or against in this case)

http://l.yimg.com/os...t-celebrate.jpg

Lets see kids celebrating with their national army who clearly aren't in any dangerous situation , is the same as kids put out by their lunatic parents who march towards military intelligence HQ and other sensitive government buildings with knowledge that trespassing will not be tolerated and knowledge that the possibility of getting shot is extremely high while on these idiotic stunts.


acmilano
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#136

Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-23700044

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-23700663

QUOTE
Egypt's presidency has declared a state of emergency after scores of people were killed when security forces stormed protest camps in Cairo.

The camps had been occupied by supporters of former president Mohammed Morsi, who was deposed in early July.

Security forces say 95 people have been killed. But the Muslim Brotherhood, which backed the protests, says hundreds have died.

The state of emergency is scheduled to last for a month.

Shortly after dawn on Wednesday morning, armoured bulldozers moved deep into the main protest camp outside the eastern Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque.

Officials say the other protest camp, at Nahda Square, has also been cleared.


Unfortunatelly,situation in Egypt escalates again.

K20
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#137

Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:35 PM

BBC are pro Morsi. pro muslim brotherhood. so they're pro extremism. so they're pro al qeuda and taliban.

all they do is talk about how great the morsi supporters are, and poor morsi supporters getting killed, the army are murdering the innocent morsi supporters ... bla blaa bla.

the army trying the eradicate these cockroaches. so i'm all for the army. hope they squash them all.

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#138

Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

I could admit that the Army may have killed unarmed people, but I don't feel any compassion for these killed ones.

Just look at how, after this incident, the Mursi followers have attacked and burned christian churches, which have nothing to do with the incidents. This, again, have proved that too many of the Mursi followers are just a fundamentalism crockoaches that don't deserve any compassion.

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#139

Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

QUOTE (kb2084 @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 15:35)
BBC are pro Morsi. pro muslim brotherhood. so they're pro extremism. so they're pro al qeuda and taliban.

all they do is talk about how great the morsi supporters are, and poor morsi supporters getting killed, the army are murdering the innocent morsi supporters ... bla blaa bla.

the army trying the eradicate these cockroaches. so i'm all for the army. hope they squash them all.

Or how about, and just bear with me hear, the BBC are an impartial news broadcaster and are simply reporting the fact that the Army are killing pro-Morsi protesters; whilst getting the opinions of Muslim Brotherhood supporters whom are based in the UK as they are likely to have a greater insight into the situation which is currently occurring.

sivispacem
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#140

Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:08 PM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 16:56)
QUOTE (kb2084 @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 15:35)
BBC are pro Morsi. pro muslim brotherhood. so they're pro extremism. so they're pro al qeuda and taliban.

all they do is talk about how great the morsi supporters are, and poor morsi supporters getting killed, the army are murdering the innocent morsi supporters ... bla blaa bla.

the army trying the eradicate these cockroaches. so i'm all for the army. hope they squash them all.

Or how about, and just bear with me hear, the BBC are an impartial news broadcaster and are simply reporting the fact that the Army are killing pro-Morsi protesters; whilst getting the opinions of Muslim Brotherhood supporters whom are based in the UK as they are likely to have a greater insight into the situation which is currently occurring.

Quoted for posterity. Your have to be a xenophobic zealot to actually genuinely believe that the BBC supports the MB. All the more amusing to see such opinions expressed in such a slapdash and haphazard manner, replete with randomly placed full stops and one of the stranger misspellings of al-Qaeda I've seen.

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#141

Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

These sit-ins lasted for over 50 days. The interim government invited them to numerous reconciliation talks but they rejected. An international medition effort was rejected by the brotherhood. Numerous times the protesters were warned that an impending dispersal was going to occur and that a peaceful exist was recommended but again they rejected. And when police entered they were met with AK-47's can't blame police for returning fire.

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#142

Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 16:08)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 16:56)
QUOTE (kb2084 @ Wednesday, Aug 14 2013, 15:35)
BBC are pro Morsi. pro muslim brotherhood. so they're pro extremism. so they're pro al qeuda and taliban.

all they do is talk about how great the morsi supporters are, and poor morsi supporters getting killed, the army are murdering the innocent morsi supporters ... bla blaa bla.

the army trying the eradicate these cockroaches. so i'm all for the army. hope they squash them all.

Or how about, and just bear with me hear, the BBC are an impartial news broadcaster and are simply reporting the fact that the Army are killing pro-Morsi protesters; whilst getting the opinions of Muslim Brotherhood supporters whom are based in the UK as they are likely to have a greater insight into the situation which is currently occurring.

Quoted for posterity. Your have to be a xenophobic zealot to actually genuinely believe that the BBC supports the MB. All the more amusing to see such opinions expressed in such a slapdash and haphazard manner, replete with randomly placed full stops and one of the stranger misspellings of al-Qaeda I've seen.

do you even watch the bbc news coverage on egypt with unbias view? haven't you noticed that everyone they interview is pro-Muslim brotherhood or pro-morsi? they way they always seem to be against the army. compare their coverage to the likes of Channel 4 News.

and ... .. . . . . . . .. . . .... . ... ................ .. . . . .....

and al'questda . . . .. . .. . . .


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#143

Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE
The move comes a day after security forces broke up Brotherhood protest camps, leaving hundreds dead.

Brotherhood members had been protesting for weeks about the army's overthrow of President Mohammed Morsi in July.

The Egyptian government says 525 people were killed on Wednesday, but scores of bodies have not been registered.

Supporters of President Morsi say more than 2,000 died.

The BBC's Khaled Ezzelarab has reported seeing at least 140 bodies wrapped in shrouds at the Eman mosque, close to the main protest camp at Rabaa al-Adawiya Square.

The Muslim Brotherhood, the main source of Mr Morsi's support, is planning marches on Thursday in Cairo and the second city, Alexandria, to protest at the deaths.

A state of emergency has been imposed by the interim government, which took power after the army removed Mr Morsi on 3 July.

The US and several other countries have condemned the Egyptian security forces' actions, which Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan described as a "very serious massacre".


http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-23711534

This is reaching Tiananmen level of casualties.

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#144

Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:15 PM

Another brutal civil war beginning in the Middle East anyone? Egypt must have a much better security infrastructure than Syria (probably thanks to US aid) I'm surprised jihadists haven't started blowing sh*t up yet in an attempt to take advantage of the turmoil like they did with Al-Assad.

sivispacem
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#145

Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (kb2084 @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 14:50)
do you even watch the bbc news coverage on egypt with unbias view?

I have watched, read and listened, yes.

QUOTE (kb2084 @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 14:50)
haven't you noticed that everyone they interview is pro-Muslim brotherhood or pro-morsi?

No I haven't. I've noticed a lack of interviews with people affiliated with the Egyptian military, but that's not particularly surprising given that members of the armed forces of developing nations with histories of military coups tend to have other things on their mind than giving interviews for the benefit of a primarily Western audience, not least when they're engaged in reading the riot act to their own citizenry. They've had numerous experts on in recent days from the likes of the UN, Chatham House and several other think tanks; foreign policy and regional experts as well, and I'd hardly call their contributions pro-Morsi or pro-Muslim-Brotherhood.

QUOTE (kb2084 @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 14:50)
they way they always seem to be against the army

Respectfully, I disagree. But given that I've heard supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood claiming that the BBC is biased against them for exactly the same coverage, I don't assign to much value to such accusations.

QUOTE (kb2084 @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 14:50)
compare their coverage to the likes of Channel 4 News.

About the same, except more reporting from their own correspondents and less use of subject matter experts.

acmilano
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#146

Posted 15 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (EscoLehGo @ Thursday, Aug 15 2013, 14:15)
Another brutal civil war beginning in the Middle East anyone? Egypt must have a much better security infrastructure than Syria (probably thanks to US aid) I'm surprised jihadists haven't started blowing sh*t up yet in an attempt to take advantage of the turmoil like they did with Al-Assad.

Moslem Brotherhood doesn't have foreign support except Turkey. If they go to civil war they would be isolated and under pressure from both US and Russia,and other big players like EU and China,and in no circumstances big countries won't allow blocking Suez cannal,even if they have to intervene. That might push MB to accept compromise and save people of Egypt from a bloody civil war. Also it is a country with 80 milion people,Europe couldn't take refugies from a such a big country.

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#147

Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:16 PM


Now the MB and their supporters will act as the poor victims of the evil egyptian military. They got exactly what they wanted to happen

acmilano
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#148

Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

Now they started using helicopters:

http://www.aljazeera...1757821877.html

QUOTE
Fresh clashes in Egypt have resulted in dozens of deaths as calls for a "day of rage" by opponents of the military-led regime turned to bloodshed.

In the worst of the violence, a correspondent for Al Jazeera said at least 41 people were killed in Cairo's Ramses Square on Friday as anti-coup protesters were fired on by government forces. The Muslim Brotherhood put the toll in the square at 45 killed, and more than 250 injured.

A protester, Said Mohammed, told Al Jazeera that the crowds were shot at by men in helicopters.

"Helicopters started to shoot us as we were walking. My friend took a shot in the neck and he died," he said. "This was the first time we saw helicopters shooting. There were people shooting from the windows."


I only don't understand why the demonstrants take women and children with them. If I'm married I will sure say my family to stay at home.

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#149

Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:08 PM

Since this topic discusses the advantages and disadvantages of Dr. Morsi, And I'm Egyptian , I came here to discuss this thing.
Morsi as any president in the world has his mistakes, But he has advantages, Since the beginning of the period of his rule more than 40 protests raged , The Black Block was formed , Media , Social networks and people was against him , Some say that his speeches was terrible and he is "stupid".
Despite all of this , He doubled the country's budget (which over 60 years no body made it) , He opened a lot of factories , He made contracts with a lot countries to open factories and to help Egypt stand up, For example , He signed a contract with Brasil to open the world largest cement factory in Egypt , Another thing that he signed another contract with German for applying The solar energy for generating electricity and such in Egypt , Other than that contracts with Russia and America and a lot of countries.
he was the first president that made our soldiers stand in Sinai with their full power and weapons , Some will laugh and say that our army always been standing their Full weapons , It's untrue , My father had served in the army and said to me that they was standing at the Borders with wood , No guns , Nothing.
Some will say , He didn't do a thing , But please , Look at our economy after the military coup , Such a fall in the economy and even the Media minister is now looking for lands that she is allowed to sell to get the money for her staff. 
some will say , It's normal for the economy to fall down , And it will rise up again , That's only in dreams , The Coup's government borrowed 200 Billion pounds for the workers' salaries , Add to that , Sisi gave 100 milion pounds (or 600 , I don't remember exactly) as a reward for the soldiers and the cops , Now that have to make every one think of it as it's planned. and it is.
now , Even look at our supply of oil and rice , The oil for the first time came in a plastic bag , What a joke. as there is no supply , They will use Dr. Bassem ouda's Supply of the oil and the rice. after it's finished , They will say "Sorry , There is no supply for this month ".
and don't say it's not a coup , When a Military minister removes a president and arrests him , It's clear that it's called a coup.
Now Mubarak has been set free , While Morsi is going to be jailed , And they say he has 2 Billion pounds fortune , What the ....? , Even the Finance minister said that Morsi hadn't taken any money even his salary. explain to me how did he get that fortune? Even as a criminal , He has the right for meeting a lawyer and his family , Why didn't they give him that right?
It's Clear that this is Mubarak's system which had returned to rule Egypt.
And The UAE and Saudi Arabia had also taken part , They paid to Sisi for doing the coup , why? because the Suiz's Canal Axis Project would make Egypt gain Billions of pounds a year(which Morsi signed a contract with China to help him with such a huge project) , While their countries would have to deal with a lot of loses in trading.
if you're satisfied with such a situation for just hating the Muslim Brotherhood, Then , We, Egyptians, Won't rise up again.
I'm not a part of Muslim BrotherHood , I only support Dr.Morsi as a president
When you people , Laughing at dead people , Even if they are MB , You're no more human-being.
Go ahead, Follow them , And let them convince you that we , Morsi's followers , Are terrorists , And should be killed.
Please , Morsi has given you democracy for the first time , you even sometimes cursed him , while these days , who even think of making a song that makes Sisi's image bad , is arrested.
Morsi has the right to rule Egypt for four years.
Don't blame Morsi , who only ruled one year , on the mistakes of the military's judge all over the past 60 years. 
As for the Pro-Morsis who were , and are protesting till now , They don't have any weapon , Or anything except their shouts , Don't get fooled and believe that Pro-Morsis are terrorists , As people who were against Morsi had the right to protest , These people too have this right as they are Egyptians.
Here is a picture of Rabaa's protests , Convince me that all these people were terrorists.
60f4fe274964358.jpg 




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