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No More President Morsi (Egypt President)

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Chris Fromage
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#91

Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE
Wouldn't smaller companies be easier to manipulate because there is less people to hide information from/manipulate.


I thought that too first. But I think now that smaller companies would rather tell more real/true stories and less lies. If big companies would do this, most people would believe them immediately. If small companies do it, (and the viewer notice that big companies don't talk about it), they might lose a lot of viewers.

BTW, it is hard to keep believing a channel (CNN) that said multiple lies about your home city in one week.

For example, There was a small protest a few months ago in my village. According to CNN, 25 000 people of the village joined the protest, while the total amount of habitants in the village is less then the half of that... dozingoff.gif

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#92

Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

Your point would be vaguely relevant if you weren't trying to use it to claim intellectual superiority over everyone else in the thread based on the presumption that their sources of evidence are incorrect, despite not actually knowing what their sources are. I just about get the "I don't trust the mainstream media" rhetoric, even though the "they got xyz facts wrong, therefore all their statements must be wrong" is pure hogwash, but what about those of us who don't derive our analyses of the events from media but from organisations who employ subject matter experts whose technical knowledge and analytical capability is usually superior to just about every domestic citizen below a cabinet minister? I don't think your local news has the same level of credibility by any means.

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#93

Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:21 PM

Egypt's future seems promising..



I can confirm that the translation is genuine. He's actually saying those words.

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#94

Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Mockage @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 15:31)
It's party time in Egypt.

user posted image

The problem is that this happens all too often when people should really be thinking about who should actually run the government after overthrowing it. Ousting the ruler is only half the revolution. Good news and congratulations nonetheless. The Egyptian people have just won a major victory for humanity.

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#95

Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:15 AM

Nothing would surprise me if there would be another protest. Although nobody can know this yet but still a great day for Egyptians.

Chris Fromage
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#96

Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:29 AM

QUOTE (LifeWithScissors @ Tuesday, Jul 9 2013, 09:15)
Nothing would surprise me if there would be another protest. Although nobody can know this yet but still a great day for Egyptians.

new protest started days ago already

http://www.guardian....orsi-supporters
http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_t2
http://www.guardian....erhood-military

but with a lot more deaths this time...

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#97

Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Monday, Jul 8 2013, 23:21)
Egypt's future seems promising..



I can confirm that the translation is genuine. He's actually saying those words.

Wow that kid is one intelligent mf'er! wow.gif

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#98

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:41 PM

Unfortunatlly,situation in Egypt exploded with multiple deaths. Hope they won't become another Syria,there is enough suffering in the world:

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c1

QUOTE
Cairo (CNN) -- Egypt's interim interior minister blamed supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy for violence Saturday that left dozens dead and hundreds more wounded.
The statement appears to signal a rapidly waning tolerance of Morsy's Muslim Brotherhood by the military-backed government.
The comments by Minister Mohamed Ibrahim followed clashes overnight between Morsy's supporters and those opposed to his rule that left dozens dead, an escalation of violence that has raised concerns among Western leaders about the stability of a key ally in the region.
Ibrahim did not outright disavow claims by Muslim Brotherhood protesters that police fired on them. But interim Vice President Mohamed ElBaradei condemned the "excessive use of force" that resulted in deaths, state-run EGYNews reported.
Tensions between the sides were likely to be further inflamed after Ibrahim told reporters in a televised news conference that Morsy would probably be moved to the same prison where ousted dictator Hosni Mubarak is being held.
The decision, according to Ibrahim, will be made by an investigative judge. Morsy has been ordered jailed by a judge for 15 days on allegations, predating his election, that he had collaborated with the Palestinian group Hamas, according to state media.
Morsy has not been seen publicly since he was forced from office. But an attorney who has visited with Morsy's former chief of staff, who also is being detained, told CNN that the former president is being "treated with the utmost respect."
"He is treated like a statesman," Nasser Amin said after meeting with Refa'a al-Tahtawi.
But the problem, Amin said, is that Morsy and others who are being held "can't contact the outside world or lawyers."
Morsy has been interrogated twice, once on July 17 and again on July 24, according to al-Tahtawi, Amin said. Egyptian law does not require an attorney be present for initial interrogations.
Rival rallies draw thousands
Since the Egyptian military pushed Morsy from office on July 3, supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood and its political arm, the Freedom and Justice Party, have staged mass rallies and sit-ins across the country. In Cairo and elsewhere, rival rallies have drawn hundreds of thousands, with sometimes deadly results.
It is unlikely Morsy's supporters will end their demonstrations without resistance -- leaders of the movement refuse to recognize the interim government or cooperate with it -- despite Ibrahim's pledge that the rallies will be brought to an end soon.
"We have complete coordination between the police and the armed forces to end the protests at the proper time," Ibrahim said. "... But we are waiting for the prosecutor's office to issue orders so can we have the legal cover for it."
There were conflicting casualty tolls Saturday from clashes between Morsy's supporters and Egyptian security forces. The clashes ensued when protesters attempted to block a major bridge in the Cairo neighborhood of Nasr City, considered a Morsy stronghold.
Conflicting casualty counts are common in the chaotic aftermath of violence, and Egypt's Ministry of Health did not return CNN's repeated calls for comment.
Dr. Khaled Al Khatib, the health ministry's head of central emergency and critical care, said late Saturday on state-run Nile TV that 65 people had been killed in the Nasr City violence.

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#99

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:47 PM Edited by NYC PATROL, 27 July 2013 - 08:49 PM.

A guy at my job that I became friends with went back to Egypt back in November for Winter break. He was
supposed to return earlier this year but because of the riots looks like he has been stuck. Haven't been in contact with him since. Hope
he's been alright out there. confused.gif

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#100

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:47 PM

user posted image

Poor, poor President Morsi. He won't be missed.

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#101

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

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#102

Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:50)
And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

Morsi barely had any support. The majority of his support comes from the Islamist camp, take that away and his camp dwindles to a few hundred thousands. His tenure as President was always met with skepticism by majority of the population and the Military & Intelligence establishments because of the Muslim Brotherhood ties to the "Caliphate" Ideology, the constant preaching of "jihad" in Syria, the opening of un-checked trade with Gaza (Arms), and the lack of attention for the Sinai peninsula "Militant" groups, his constant attempt to take over all institutions and place them under "Islamist" control, combine that with is attempts to gain absolute power, and it becomes a powder keg of turmoil.

Most Egyptians rather have had a "Military coup" than sit back and watch the country sink into a dust.

The events that transpired last night are unjustifiable by any means, and this not something Egyptians enjoy and certainly not the Military.

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#103

Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:32 AM

QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 23:38)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:50)
And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

Morsi barely had any support. The majority of his support comes from the Islamist camp, take that away and his camp dwindles to a few hundred thousands. His tenure as President was always met with skepticism by majority of the population and the Military & Intelligence establishments because of the Muslim Brotherhood ties to the "Caliphate" Ideology, the constant preaching of "jihad" in Syria, the opening of un-checked trade with Gaza (Arms), and the lack of attention for the Sinai peninsula "Militant" groups, his constant attempt to take over all institutions and place them under "Islamist" control, combine that with is attempts to gain absolute power, and it becomes a powder keg of turmoil.

Most Egyptians rather have had a "Military coup" than sit back and watch the country sink into a dust.

The events that transpired last night are unjustifiable by any means, and this not something Egyptians enjoy and certainly not the Military.

If he had hardly any support then how is it that he was elected into to power with 51.7% of the vote? The way I see it, Morsi supporters have every right to be protesting about his removal from power as he was legitimately elected and held the majority of the public support. His opponents, who instigated the coup, seemed to mainly consist of the youth and those in urban areas. This is not representative of the entire nation as one must consider the Islamist camp, as you so put it, the uneducated and the people who dwell in rural areas all of whom no doubt supported Morsi.
I don't wish to patronize you but the 'Islamist camp' has had a strong presence in Egyptian politics since the 1930's when the Muslim Brotherhood were formed in opposition to the occupying British forces. Since then, they have been used and abused by those seeking political power, most memorably by Nasser during the coup of 1956 (need to double check date). To simply cast aside a President whom represents an organisation which have deep roots in many Egyptian communities is not only insulting but down right inexcusable.
I'm glad that you are not excusing the actions of the Army and I hope we see an end to the bloodshed soon. Egypt is a nation with a wonderful culture and history and it is a shame to see it experiencing such turmoil.

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#104

Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Sunday, Jul 28 2013, 01:32)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 23:38)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:50)
And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

Morsi barely had any support. The majority of his support comes from the Islamist camp, take that away and his camp dwindles to a few hundred thousands. His tenure as President was always met with skepticism by majority of the population and the Military & Intelligence establishments because of the Muslim Brotherhood ties to the "Caliphate" Ideology, the constant preaching of "jihad" in Syria, the opening of un-checked trade with Gaza (Arms), and the lack of attention for the Sinai peninsula "Militant" groups, his constant attempt to take over all institutions and place them under "Islamist" control, combine that with is attempts to gain absolute power, and it becomes a powder keg of turmoil.

Most Egyptians rather have had a "Military coup" than sit back and watch the country sink into a dust.

The events that transpired last night are unjustifiable by any means, and this not something Egyptians enjoy and certainly not the Military.

If he had hardly any support then how is it that he was elected into to power with 51.7% of the vote? The way I see it, Morsi supporters have every right to be protesting about his removal from power as he was legitimately elected and held the majority of the public support. His opponents, who instigated the coup, seemed to mainly consist of the youth and those in urban areas. This is not representative of the entire nation as one must consider the Islamist camp, as you so put it, the uneducated and the people who dwell in rural areas all of whom no doubt supported Morsi.
I don't wish to patronize you but the 'Islamist camp' has had a strong presence in Egyptian politics since the 1930's when the Muslim Brotherhood were formed in opposition to the occupying British forces. Since then, they have been used and abused by those seeking political power, most memorably by Nasser during the coup of 1956 (need to double check date). To simply cast aside a President whom represents an organisation which have deep roots in many Egyptian communities is not only insulting but down right inexcusable.
I'm glad that you are not excusing the actions of the Army and I hope we see an end to the bloodshed soon. Egypt is a nation with a wonderful culture and history and it is a shame to see it experiencing such turmoil.

But at the time he was taken out, he obviously didn't hold 50% support.
Infact, more people signed against Morsi than against Mubarack.
Morsi lost support quickly and right now the Islamic Camp in Egypt has become quite isolated there, and definitely starting to hit rock bottom in terms of strength.
I think a "turmoil" as you call it would be, and be far worse if Morsi's reign wasn't interrupted. Arabic/Islamic countries are usually enormous dictator fests. it's fascinating and sad how each new dictator their countries just sink more, and Islamic laws [with no offense to muslims] are huge factors in the countries' decline in whatever.
Every change is better now, despite the unnecessary bloodshed that's currently going on there

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#105

Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:04 PM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 19:32)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 23:38)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:50)
And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

Morsi barely had any support. The majority of his support comes from the Islamist camp, take that away and his camp dwindles to a few hundred thousands. His tenure as President was always met with skepticism by majority of the population and the Military & Intelligence establishments because of the Muslim Brotherhood ties to the "Caliphate" Ideology, the constant preaching of "jihad" in Syria, the opening of un-checked trade with Gaza (Arms), and the lack of attention for the Sinai peninsula "Militant" groups, his constant attempt to take over all institutions and place them under "Islamist" control, combine that with is attempts to gain absolute power, and it becomes a powder keg of turmoil.

Most Egyptians rather have had a "Military coup" than sit back and watch the country sink into a dust.

The events that transpired last night are unjustifiable by any means, and this not something Egyptians enjoy and certainly not the Military.

If he had hardly any support then how is it that he was elected into to power with 51.7% of the vote? The way I see it, Morsi supporters have every right to be protesting about his removal from power as he was legitimately elected and held the majority of the public support. His opponents, who instigated the coup, seemed to mainly consist of the youth and those in urban areas. This is not representative of the entire nation as one must consider the Islamist camp, as you so put it, the uneducated and the people who dwell in rural areas all of whom no doubt supported Morsi.
I don't wish to patronize you but the 'Islamist camp' has had a strong presence in Egyptian politics since the 1930's when the Muslim Brotherhood were formed in opposition to the occupying British forces. Since then, they have been used and abused by those seeking political power, most memorably by Nasser during the coup of 1956 (need to double check date). To simply cast aside a President whom represents an organisation which have deep roots in many Egyptian communities is not only insulting but down right inexcusable.
I'm glad that you are not excusing the actions of the Army and I hope we see an end to the bloodshed soon. Egypt is a nation with a wonderful culture and history and it is a shame to see it experiencing such turmoil.

Out of some 53 Million Eligible voters. Only 24 Million Participated in the run-off elections, where Morsi went up against former prime minster Ahmed Shafiq. Morsi gained about 13 million votes, a number disputed by many who say Morsi actually lost the election by some 400,000 votes but because of vote rigging and threats to set the country a flame by his supporters if he lost, the victory was given to him. You are correct the "Islamist" due have history in Egypt since the 1930s they actually teamed up with the Free officers of Gamal abdel Nassar & Anwar Sadat in the 1952 revolution against British occupation, but later had a falling out due to the Brotherhood instance of a "Islamic" state based strict interpretation of "Sharia law", and strong religious institutions. When they attempted to assassinate Gamal( a costly mistake), he ordered a harsh crackdown and the entire group( also a costly mistake) which led them underground and made them more militant in ideology.

The June 30th "Rebel" movement gained 22 million signatures of "No confidence" and demanded early "elections" he could have still been President had he accepted those demands. Many of Morsi mistakes could have been prevented had he just listened and not antagonized the population by simply ignoring them for over a year.

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#106

Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

http://worldnews.nbc...adquarters?lite

QUOTE
CAIRO -- Supporters of Egypt's ousted Islamist president marched toward a military facility in defiance of an army warning in the early hours of Monday, risking a new confrontation after dozens were shot dead at the weekend.
The Muslim Brotherhood said the destination was the military intelligence headquarters, despite an army statement warning protesters to steer clear of military installations.
A Reuters reporter saw several thousand marchers leaving the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in northern Cairo, where they have been staging a weeks-long vigil to demand the reinstatement of deposed Mohammed Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected president.
At least 72 Brotherhood supporters were shot dead by security forces on Saturday near the vigil, deepening the turmoil convulsing the country since the army shunted Morsi from power on July 3.

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#107

Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE (acmilano @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 16:30)
http://worldnews.nbc...adquarters?lite

QUOTE
CAIRO -- Supporters of Egypt's ousted Islamist president marched toward a military facility in defiance of an army warning in the early hours of Monday, risking a new confrontation after dozens were shot dead at the weekend.
The Muslim Brotherhood said the destination was the military intelligence headquarters, despite an army statement warning protesters to steer clear of military installations.
A Reuters reporter saw several thousand marchers leaving the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in northern Cairo, where they have been staging a weeks-long vigil to demand the reinstatement of deposed Mohammed Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected president.
At least 72 Brotherhood supporters were shot dead by security forces on Saturday near the vigil, deepening the turmoil convulsing the country since the army shunted Morsi from power on July 3.

And still, Sisi is seen as a hero... dozingoff.gif

Here I got a picture a friend of me sent from Egypt:

user posted image
This one is the not so graphic pictures. According to witnesses, the army attacked a mosque just when they started praying.
No violence, no demonstrations, no signs, no shouting,... Just a pray.

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#108

Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:13 PM

I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.


Chris Fromage
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#109

Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:13)
I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.

Don't believe it. I saw the same video during the revolution against Mubarak started.

That's also why comments and rating are disabled on this video. People came with multiple links to the same video uploaded a year ago.

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#110

Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:17)
QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:13)
I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.

Don't believe it. I saw the same video during the revolution against Mubarak started.

That's also why comments and rating are disabled on this video. People came with multiple links to the same video uploaded a year ago.

I believe it. The video came out a few weeks ago, and at least one of the guys who are in the roof is confirmed as an Al Qaeda member.

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#111

Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 12:17)
QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:13)
I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.

Don't believe it. I saw the same video during the revolution against Mubarak started.

That's also why comments and rating are disabled on this video. People came with multiple links to the same video uploaded a year ago.

Actually that video is real from about 3 weeks ago . And those are Morsi fanatics throwing kids off the roof of the building. The Egyptian traitor carrying the Al Qaeda, was later arrested and is facing the death penalty in his case.

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#112

Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 19:32)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 12:17)
QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:13)
I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.

Don't believe it. I saw the same video during the revolution against Mubarak started.

That's also why comments and rating are disabled on this video. People came with multiple links to the same video uploaded a year ago.

Actually that video is real from about 3 weeks ago . And those are Morsi fanatics throwing kids off the roof of the building. The Egyptian traitor carrying the Al Qaeda, was later arrested and is facing the death penalty in his case.

I am glad he is getting the death penalty. But when is Sisi getting his for the hundreds of deaths that he made only today?

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#113

Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:55 AM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 19:36)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 19:32)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 12:17)
QUOTE (RoadRunner71 @ Monday, Jul 29 2013, 18:13)
I can't a believe a word of these people who throw kids off the roofs, and I don't either feel compassion for them.

Don't believe it. I saw the same video during the revolution against Mubarak started.

That's also why comments and rating are disabled on this video. People came with multiple links to the same video uploaded a year ago.

Actually that video is real from about 3 weeks ago . And those are Morsi fanatics throwing kids off the roof of the building. The Egyptian traitor carrying the Al Qaeda, was later arrested and is facing the death penalty in his case.

I am glad he is getting the death penalty. But when is Sisi getting his for the hundreds of deaths that he made only today?

When a thorough investigation is completed, I'm confident those who were complicit in the killings will be brought to justice.

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#114

Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Sunday, Jul 28 2013, 21:04)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 19:32)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 23:38)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:50)
And this is exactly why I said a military coup was not the right way to go about things. Fact of the matter is, Morsi had, and still has, the support of a very significant part of the population of Egypt and now the military have effectively placed Cairo under martial law. The Army seem free to do what they want at the moment and if that includes murdering civilians, then whose there to stop them? Certainly not the President they themselves installed that's for sure.

Morsi barely had any support. The majority of his support comes from the Islamist camp, take that away and his camp dwindles to a few hundred thousands. His tenure as President was always met with skepticism by majority of the population and the Military & Intelligence establishments because of the Muslim Brotherhood ties to the "Caliphate" Ideology, the constant preaching of "jihad" in Syria, the opening of un-checked trade with Gaza (Arms), and the lack of attention for the Sinai peninsula "Militant" groups, his constant attempt to take over all institutions and place them under "Islamist" control, combine that with is attempts to gain absolute power, and it becomes a powder keg of turmoil.

Most Egyptians rather have had a "Military coup" than sit back and watch the country sink into a dust.

The events that transpired last night are unjustifiable by any means, and this not something Egyptians enjoy and certainly not the Military.

If he had hardly any support then how is it that he was elected into to power with 51.7% of the vote? The way I see it, Morsi supporters have every right to be protesting about his removal from power as he was legitimately elected and held the majority of the public support. His opponents, who instigated the coup, seemed to mainly consist of the youth and those in urban areas. This is not representative of the entire nation as one must consider the Islamist camp, as you so put it, the uneducated and the people who dwell in rural areas all of whom no doubt supported Morsi.
I don't wish to patronize you but the 'Islamist camp' has had a strong presence in Egyptian politics since the 1930's when the Muslim Brotherhood were formed in opposition to the occupying British forces. Since then, they have been used and abused by those seeking political power, most memorably by Nasser during the coup of 1956 (need to double check date). To simply cast aside a President whom represents an organisation which have deep roots in many Egyptian communities is not only insulting but down right inexcusable.
I'm glad that you are not excusing the actions of the Army and I hope we see an end to the bloodshed soon. Egypt is a nation with a wonderful culture and history and it is a shame to see it experiencing such turmoil.

Out of some 53 Million Eligible voters. Only 24 Million Participated in the run-off elections, where Morsi went up against former prime minster Ahmed Shafiq. Morsi gained about 13 million votes, a number disputed by many who say Morsi actually lost the election by some 400,000 votes but because of vote rigging and threats to set the country a flame by his supporters if he lost, the victory was given to him. You are correct the "Islamist" due have history in Egypt since the 1930s they actually teamed up with the Free officers of Gamal abdel Nassar & Anwar Sadat in the 1952 revolution against British occupation, but later had a falling out due to the Brotherhood instance of a "Islamic" state based strict interpretation of "Sharia law", and strong religious institutions. When they attempted to assassinate Gamal( a costly mistake), he ordered a harsh crackdown and the entire group( also a costly mistake) which led them underground and made them more militant in ideology.

The June 30th "Rebel" movement gained 22 million signatures of "No confidence" and demanded early "elections" he could have still been President had he accepted those demands. Many of Morsi mistakes could have been prevented had he just listened and not antagonized the population by simply ignoring them for over a year.

I'm not trying to defend Morsi for the actions undertaken during his Presidency, nor am I arguing that he should be in power at the moment. However, I am trying to argue that he still has a sizable amount of support from the Islamist community, as we have seen over the past week or so, and that the actions taken by the Army are politically are morally wrong.

As I have previously stated, the Muslim Brotherhood has played a significant role in Egyptian politics since the 30's, surviving more than its fair share of turmoil. It's fair to say that both the supporters and members of this organisation have somewhat suffered political persecution over the past 60/70 years. Morsi was the first Egyptian President backed fully by the Ikhwan. All those years of political struggle had finally appeared to have paid off and then, just like that, the Army remove him in a coup and replace him with their own candidate. Are you telling me that if you were a supporter of the Ikhwan, you wouldn't be really angry at this?

Now I'm not saying that Morsi was doing a good job at all and I think it was necessary to replace him, but, a coup was the wrong way to go. In my opinion, the fundamental problem in all of this was the significant involvement of the Army in the Egyptian political system (it was different for Mubarak because he was effectively a dictator and thus military intervention was necessary). The Army have removed a legitimately elected leader (the legitimacy of the election results are inconsequential as there is no solid proof) and installed their own candidate, who will no doubt tow the line that the Generals wish i.e. allowing military to enact marshal law. What's more, although the intervention with Mubarak is excusable, as I've already stated, to intervene a second time when the situation is completely different sets a precedent for the Army to oust any government it sees fit to remove.
As I've said in the second paragraph, Morsi's, and the Muslim Brotherhood's, supporters are bound to be angry at this and have thus taken too the streets in protest. Some of their behavior has been completely inexcusable and deplorable, as we've seen in the video posted above, but by no means justifies a military crackdown on the scale seen over the past week. The violence between the Army and protesters was not nearly this bad upon the removal of Morsi and so it will now appear to the Muslim Brotherhood that they are being victimized. This is not how you want a party with a history of extremist behavior to feel as it will only serve to deepen the divides in Egyptian society. What's more, it also implies that the Army will be more than willing to crack down on opposition supporters in the future, thus installing the fear of a military junta forming.

You're probably thinking "What do you propose should have happened instead then?". To tell you the truth, I don't know. We could sit here all day and argue about what other courses could have been taken and whether they would have been successful but it would be a worthless discussion. However, that does not mean that the course of action taken was the right one, but, it has been taken none the less. Now all we can do is watch the consequences of military intervention in a heated political climate.

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#115

Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:50 PM Edited by Chris Fromage, 30 July 2013 - 10:05 PM.

QUOTE
I'm not trying to defend Morsi for the actions undertaken during his Presidency, nor am I arguing that he should be in power at the moment. However, I am trying to argue that he still has a sizable amount of support from the Islamist community, as we have seen over the past week or so, and that the actions taken by the Army are politically are morally wrong.

As I have previously stated, the Muslim Brotherhood has played a significant role in Egyptian politics since the 30's, surviving more than its fair share of turmoil. It's fair to say that both the supporters and members of this organisation have somewhat suffered political persecution over the past 60/70 years. Morsi was the first Egyptian President backed fully by the Ikhwan. All those years of political struggle had finally appeared to have paid off and then, just like that, the Army remove him in a coup and replace him with their own candidate. Are you telling me that if you were a supporter of the Ikhwan, you wouldn't be really angry at this?

Now I'm not saying that Morsi was doing a good job at all and I think it was necessary to replace him, but, a coup was the wrong way to go. In my opinion, the fundamental problem in all of this was the significant involvement of the Army in the Egyptian political system (it was different for Mubarak because he was effectively a dictator and thus military intervention was necessary). The Army have removed a legitimately elected leader (the legitimacy of the election results are inconsequential as there is no solid proof) and installed their own candidate, who will no doubt tow the line that the Generals wish i.e. allowing military to enact marshal law. What's more, although the intervention with Mubarak is excusable, as I've already stated, to intervene a second time when the situation is completely different sets a precedent for the Army to oust any government it sees fit to remove.
As I've said in the second paragraph, Morsi's, and the Muslim Brotherhood's, supporters are bound to be angry at this and have thus taken too the streets in protest. Some of their behavior has been completely inexcusable and deplorable, as we've seen in the video posted above, but by no means justifies a military crackdown on the scale seen over the past week. The violence between the Army and protesters was not nearly this bad upon the removal of Morsi and so it will now appear to the Muslim Brotherhood that they are being victimized. This is not how you want a party with a history of extremist behavior to feel as it will only serve to deepen the divides in Egyptian society. What's more, it also implies that the Army will be more than willing to crack down on opposition supporters in the future, thus installing the fear of a military junta forming.

You're probably thinking "What do you propose should have happened instead then?". To tell you the truth, I don't know. We could sit here all day and argue about what other courses could have been taken and whether they would have been successful but it would be a worthless discussion. However, that does not mean that the course of action taken was the right one, but, it has been taken none the less. Now all we can do is watch the consequences of military intervention in a heated political climate.


A coup was indeed the wrong way to do this. But I think everyone realize this was the only way.
Most people know Mursi would be elected again next time and that is what they fear. They tried a lot to make people stop supporting him. The day Mursi was elected, Electricity centrals started a strike, public transport refused to work, water pipes to a lot of areas were closed,...
Not only people started protesting in Egypt, the rest of the world refused to work neither.

The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

But Mursi will be elected if he will be free until then. People have now seen how good Mursi actually was instead of the guy that killed twice as much people in 1 week domination then the total amount of deaths in 1 year during Mursi his government...


UPDATE:

Just saw on tv that +- a million people went to Adeviyye square and other important places in Egypt.

It's not as much as the 4 million they during the pro-Mursi protests had a few weeks ago, but I don't think Sisi can find that much support.

sivispacem
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#116

Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:47 AM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Tuesday, Jul 30 2013, 22:50)
The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

Sorry, where on earth do you come up with some of the utter nonsensical bullsh*t you post? The US staked a f*cking huge amount on the idea that a combination of democracy and moderate Islamism in Egypt would be successful. So did a lot of other Western powers who began re-engaging with them wholesale. It's fine for you to support Morsi- I don't personally give a toss who you support and I can pretty much guarantee no-one else does, but turning this into a global conspiracy because your chosen candidate to support got ousted having done a sh*te job and basically turned his fledgling democracy into an illiberal, theocratic borderline-autocracy is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant.

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#117

Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 06:47)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Tuesday, Jul 30 2013, 22:50)
The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

Sorry, where on earth do you come up with some of the utter nonsensical bullsh*t you post? The US staked a f*cking huge amount on the idea that a combination of democracy and moderate Islamism in Egypt would be successful. So did a lot of other Western powers who began re-engaging with them wholesale. It's fine for you to support Morsi- I don't personally give a toss who you support and I can pretty much guarantee no-one else does, but turning this into a global conspiracy because your chosen candidate to support got ousted having done a sh*te job and basically turned his fledgling democracy into an illiberal, theocratic borderline-autocracy is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant.

They did sent money. But the government didn't get a single coin of them.
All money went to the army and anti-Mursi protestors. And this is the first time I heard someone saying that religion and democracy would be successful...

I am not turning this into a global conspiracy. I am just writing some fun facts down.
BTW, I wouldn't really care about him if he wasn't elected in the first place. I just find it unbelievable how a president is pushed from all sides to fall from his place. Mursi was elected on a "legal" way. He will be elected next time too but the world knows that too. Why else would they hold someone in a hidden prison for such a long time? Is it just because he did what he promised to do before his elections...?

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#118

Posted 31 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 12:45)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 06:47)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Tuesday, Jul 30 2013, 22:50)
The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

Sorry, where on earth do you come up with some of the utter nonsensical bullsh*t you post? The US staked a f*cking huge amount on the idea that a combination of democracy and moderate Islamism in Egypt would be successful. So did a lot of other Western powers who began re-engaging with them wholesale. It's fine for you to support Morsi- I don't personally give a toss who you support and I can pretty much guarantee no-one else does, but turning this into a global conspiracy because your chosen candidate to support got ousted having done a sh*te job and basically turned his fledgling democracy into an illiberal, theocratic borderline-autocracy is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant.

They did sent money. But the government didn't get a single coin of them.
All money went to the army and anti-Mursi protestors. And this is the first time I heard someone saying that religion and democracy would be successful...

I am not turning this into a global conspiracy. I am just writing some fun facts down.
BTW, I wouldn't really care about him if he wasn't elected in the first place. I just find it unbelievable how a president is pushed from all sides to fall from his place. Mursi was elected on a "legal" way. He will be elected next time too but the world knows that too. Why else would they hold someone in a hidden prison for such a long time? Is it just because he did what he promised to do before his elections...?

Or...or...like happens in every 3rd world country or those whose leaders are a bunch of radicals or just worthless, the money gets stuck in the government members and the PEOPLE is who don't get a coin.

See afghanistan. I know it's not at the same level than Egypt, but the western countries have given the government a lot of money and nothing reaches to the people.

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#119

Posted 31 July 2013 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 13:45)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 06:47)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Tuesday, Jul 30 2013, 22:50)
The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

Sorry, where on earth do you come up with some of the utter nonsensical bullsh*t you post? The US staked a f*cking huge amount on the idea that a combination of democracy and moderate Islamism in Egypt would be successful. So did a lot of other Western powers who began re-engaging with them wholesale. It's fine for you to support Morsi- I don't personally give a toss who you support and I can pretty much guarantee no-one else does, but turning this into a global conspiracy because your chosen candidate to support got ousted having done a sh*te job and basically turned his fledgling democracy into an illiberal, theocratic borderline-autocracy is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant.

They did sent money. But the government didn't get a single coin of them.
All money went to the army and anti-Mursi protestors. And this is the first time I heard someone saying that religion and democracy would be successful...

I am not turning this into a global conspiracy. I am just writing some fun facts down.
BTW, I wouldn't really care about him if he wasn't elected in the first place. I just find it unbelievable how a president is pushed from all sides to fall from his place. Mursi was elected on a "legal" way. He will be elected next time too but the world knows that too. Why else would they hold someone in a hidden prison for such a long time? Is it just because he did what he promised to do before his elections...?

Give it a rest Chris, they aren't facts. They're hypotheses that you've either invented to explain something (I don't see you disclosing any information on how this money escaped the political channels through which it was passed initially and went into the hands of opposition fighters and the army, by the way) or you've taken it from some pro-Morsi source that's trying to turn the whole thing into an act of international espionage, as happens every time Islsmists lose ground to moderates and secularists in political discourse. So provide some actual evidence to support your claims please.

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#120

Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 13:48)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 13:45)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Wednesday, Jul 31 2013, 06:47)
QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Tuesday, Jul 30 2013, 22:50)
The day Mursi was elected, Europe and the US stopped a very important contract what had a lot of benefits for Egypt. Only 2 countries (Qatar and Turkey) sent them money to rebuild the country. No other country else did sent a single coin (until the coup. Then suddenly, the world started to donate millions to Egypt.) From the beginning, the big guys in the world tried to stop Mursi, but he just gained more support. The last way of stopping him was a coup...

Sorry, where on earth do you come up with some of the utter nonsensical bullsh*t you post? The US staked a f*cking huge amount on the idea that a combination of democracy and moderate Islamism in Egypt would be successful. So did a lot of other Western powers who began re-engaging with them wholesale. It's fine for you to support Morsi- I don't personally give a toss who you support and I can pretty much guarantee no-one else does, but turning this into a global conspiracy because your chosen candidate to support got ousted having done a sh*te job and basically turned his fledgling democracy into an illiberal, theocratic borderline-autocracy is incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant.

They did sent money. But the government didn't get a single coin of them.
All money went to the army and anti-Mursi protestors. And this is the first time I heard someone saying that religion and democracy would be successful...

I am not turning this into a global conspiracy. I am just writing some fun facts down.
BTW, I wouldn't really care about him if he wasn't elected in the first place. I just find it unbelievable how a president is pushed from all sides to fall from his place. Mursi was elected on a "legal" way. He will be elected next time too but the world knows that too. Why else would they hold someone in a hidden prison for such a long time? Is it just because he did what he promised to do before his elections...?

Give it a rest Chris, they aren't facts. They're hypotheses that you've either invented to explain something (I don't see you disclosing any information on how this money escaped the political channels through which it was passed initially and went into the hands of opposition fighters and the army, by the way) or you've taken it from some pro-Morsi source that's trying to turn the whole thing into an act of international espionage, as happens every time Islsmists lose ground to moderates and secularists in political discourse. So provide some actual evidence to support your claims please.

I got these things from contacts in Egypt, the news, politic discussion I see here and there, etc. Just like you get all your information about most news. Why are mine called hypotheses while others here are talking about facts? The only difference is that I don't watch Western or Arabic channels.

That's also why I can never place some useful links. I don't think most of the users here know those languages. I can still place those links, but I don't think you will understand it unless you have a personal translator.




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