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No More President Morsi (Egypt President)

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Ibrahimhassounah
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#31

Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE (fgcarva1 @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 22:20)
QUOTE (Ibrahimhassounah @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 19:04)
QUOTE (fgcarva1 @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 22:00)
Ah, as I said in another topic... got home from work, sat back and watched the "coup" (if you can call it that) unravel on CNN. Morsi and the MB were a terrible choice for Egypt. Religion has no place in politics and hopefully the Middle East (and to some extent, the US) will start understanding this. I wish all the best to Egypt and its people.

The Islamic Religion didn't even say to kill people like Morsi does and he call him self a Muslim but I call him a corrupted guy

I'm not talking about the Muslim religion, but any religion. No religion should be involved with the way a country runs. If countries like Egypt want to accept the freedoms and liberties that come with a democracy (which is what they called themselves with Morsi), they have to discredit religion within their laws... something MB can't do as they are a religiously-affiliated/led party.

I agree with you

The_Black_Baron
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#32

Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:30 PM

Why doesn't the military just stay in power this time? They seem to know what the people want.

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#33

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (natethegreatforlife @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 17:18)
Another corrupt president will just take his place, sadly.

Yeah. How long was Morsi in after the last revolution/coup? Was it even a solid year? I'm really bad with time and too lazy to look anything up.

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#34

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

This is what America needs to do. Hopefully you're taking notes.

Ibrahimhassounah
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#35

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (J32T3R @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 23:39)
This is what America needs to do. Hopefully you're taking notes.

Riots ? why ? is President Obama bad ?

trip
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#36

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

QUOTE (J32T3R @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 19:39)
This is what America needs to do. Hopefully you're taking notes.

Oh gosh no. That would be disastrous. The American government may have its ups and downs, but it has been that way since the 1700's...usually if you wait out the bad times the good times are pretty fun.

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#37

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE (J32T3R @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 23:39)
This is what America needs to do. Hopefully you're taking notes.

America needs to hold its leaders to account, I'll agree with that, but a massive Revolutionary movement is unecessary.
All America needs is to know that a President can be punished for their wrongdoings, they were cheated out of seeing Nixon go to jail and Bush will never face justice for his lunacy - I think seeing bad leaders punished when it is convenient to punish them is vital for a democracy.

Look at the Roman Republic, a corrupt system, yes, but they understood how to punish failure and corruption. Tiberius Gracchus was a popular demagogue who crippled the legislative system when he didn't get his way, he abused his position and would have continued to do so in order to become King - what happened? The senators beat him to death in the streets.
Revolution averted, everyone goes home happy.

A good democracy simply needs to give people the illusion of power every so often, and I think America isn't doing that, neither is the UK, but we're not technically a democracy.

Tyler
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#38

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 14:03)
Egypt needs to go back to Pharaohs and sh*t. Build some pyramids as well. Good times.

It worked for, what, 3,000 years? Sounds a lot better than 2 years to me.

trip
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#39

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:17 AM

QUOTE (Tyler @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 20:15)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 14:03)
Egypt needs to go back to Pharaohs and sh*t. Build some pyramids as well. Good times.

It worked for, what, 3,000 years? Sounds a lot better than 2 years to me.

f*ckin A answer right there.

The Yokel
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#40

Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:49 AM

QUOTE (Tyler @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 01:15)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Wednesday, Jul 3 2013, 14:03)
Egypt needs to go back to Pharaohs and sh*t. Build some pyramids as well. Good times.

It worked for, what, 3,000 years? Sounds a lot better than 2 years to me.

It's not about how long the president lasts. They had Pharaohs that didn't last a full year and one that lasted a lifetime. Pepi II I think.

They just had an awesome empire. Ancient Egypt was basically like a social media website. People wrote sh*t on the walls and worshiped cats. We've come full circle.

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#41

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:11 AM

Here's a nice little blog entry on the future.. http://geopoliticalc...fter-morsi.html

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#42

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:32 AM

Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

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#43

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 02:32)
Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

Egyptians may not care now but what happens when the Army place its own backed representative in power permanently or install a general as leader much like Nasser in 1952. Don't get me wrong, Morsi needed to be replaced but it should have happened without military intervention. Now the situations very messy and I for one believe that the turmoil isn't over yet.

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#44

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:23 PM

A video has emerged of President Morsi in custody. Thankfully, they don't seem to have tortured the man or otherwise physically assaulted him, but there was a crowd heckling him and at times in the video seem to be getting dangerously close to overpowering those guarding him:


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#45

Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 03:58)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 02:32)
Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

Egyptians may not care now but what happens when the Army place its own backed representative in power permanently or install a general as leader much like Nasser in 1952. Don't get me wrong, Morsi needed to be replaced but it should have happened without military intervention. Now the situations very messy and I for one believe that the turmoil isn't over yet.

So, what would be your suggestion for replacing him? He didn't look like he was going to step down anytime soon. So what, wait until his term is up, let him ruin the country more, and then hope to replace him in an election? Which could also be rigged, specially if he continued with his style of giving himself ridiculous powers.

Sometimes you have to do it by force. Hopefully, they will just call new elections (didn't the election that put him in place end at like 51% to 48%? How can you elect someone if half the country does not want them?) and get the thing done. The military had said they have no intention of ruling the country, so who knows.

Chris Fromage
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#46

Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:10 PM

Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.

Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.

The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).
It's the same story as Turkey a few weeks ago. Some called it a revolution, but according to the latest surveys, more then 60% of Turkey supports Erdogan (this was less before the protests started...). While the media mostly acted like the whole world was against him...
Same story...

Besides of that, a coup has never been good for a country. No matter what country or when, a coup has more negative sides then positive sides.

And another thing. Isn't it amazing how a country lived for years under control of a dictator (who killed hunderds of people), did nothing for more then 30 years. While people started protesting at Morsi after a few months while he didn't kill or hurt anyone....?
Something more amazing is the fact that those protest started right the day after Morsi made a truce between Palestine and Israel... sarcasm.gif

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#47

Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

Chris, I don't think the objections many have were to do with the fact Morsi wanted to steer Egypt in a more political-Islam-driven direction. More to do with the fact he undermined the fledgling democratic process by trying to award himself sweeping and deeply unconstitutional powers, crossing a red line by basically calling for a religiously-driven violent intervention in Syria, economic mismanagement, the use of police snipers against demonstrators in Port Said, and the appointing of violent Islamists historically linked to mass-casualty attacks against civilians and foreign nationals as regional governors.

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#48

Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:34 PM Edited by Raavi, 04 July 2013 - 09:51 PM.

QUOTE
Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.


Good man? What good man appoints a member of a former islamist armed group that was responsible for many massacres as region leader?

QUOTE
Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.


He also stood for 'freedom' or at least in the minds of the majority, unfortunately islam and the muslim brotherhood doesn't agree with freedom. The cabinet Hisham Qandil apointed was filled to the brim with islamists and technocrats. They purposely excluded secular and liberal voices to have free reign. Not to mention the constitution pretty much 'expelled' freedom of speech.

QUOTE
The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).


Had a look at Tahrir Square lately? Those people don't want to live in a very restrictive history book, they want freedom.

Non the less I agree that ousting him like that wasn't the best decision.

Ibrahimhassounah
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#49

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 21:10)
Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.

Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.

The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).
It's the same story as Turkey a few weeks ago. Some called it a revolution, but according to the latest surveys, more then 60% of Turkey supports Erdogan (this was less before the protests started...). While the media mostly acted like the whole world was against him...
Same story...

Besides of that, a coup has never been good for a country. No matter what country or when, a coup has more negative sides then positive sides.

And another thing. Isn't it amazing how a country lived for years under control of a dictator (who killed hunderds of people), did nothing for more then 30 years. While people started protesting at Morsi after a few months while he didn't kill or hurt anyone....?
Something more amazing is the fact that those protest started right the day after Morsi made a truce between Palestine and Israel... sarcasm.gif

I'm from the Islam religion and I don't support him , it wasn't the problem , the problem was that he didn't give the people there rights , they were literally eating bread and living on that , he didn't give people the rights so why would even Muslims support him

Ibrahimhassounah
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#50

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Raavi @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 21:34)
QUOTE
Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.


Good man? What good man appoints a member of a former islamist armed group that was responsible for many massacres as region leader?

QUOTE
Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.


He also stood for 'freedom' or at least in the minds of the majority, unfortunately islam and the muslim brotherhood doesn't agree with freedom. The cabinet Hisham Qandil apointed was filled to the brim with islamists and technocrats. They purposely excluded secular and liberal voices to have free reign. Not to mention the constitution pretty much 'expelled' freedom of speech.

QUOTE
The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).


Had a look at Tahrir Square lately? Those people don't want to live in a very restrictive history book, they want freedom.

Non the less I agree that ousting him like that wasn't the best decision.

I'm muslim and a lot of people that went to Tahrir Square were muslims , he didn't give the rights for freedom , he promised but didn't do what he promised , The Islamic Group was supporting him cause he was from them once

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#51

Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:11 PM

Another good post Raavi icon14.gif

Islamism and democracy don't get along, well any religion in general and democracy don't get along after all.

Mursi haven't improved anything at all, but he has worsen the things. From what they say and just as an example, now there are more attacks against women, something that should be inconceivable in a democratic state. There's a lot of poverty in Egypt which, added to the religious thinking developes into ignorance.

By other hand, experts had been saying that the situation of these last days was almost about to develope into a civil war, this military intervention, despite of being a military coup was the best choice and for the moment has avoided the thing turn worse (let's wait, anyway, it's still early to confirm anything).

Personally, even if I'm not Egyptian, I hope Elbaradei is choosen president; just seeing his internationally applauded career he has to be better and more democratic president than a bunch of religious guys.

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#52

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:10)
Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.

Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.

The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).
It's the same story as Turkey a few weeks ago. Some called it a revolution, but according to the latest surveys, more then 60% of Turkey supports Erdogan (this was less before the protests started...). While the media mostly acted like the whole world was against him...
Same story...

Besides of that, a coup has never been good for a country. No matter what country or when, a coup has more negative sides then positive sides.

And another thing. Isn't it amazing how a country lived for years under control of a dictator (who killed hunderds of people), did nothing for more then 30 years. While people started protesting at Morsi after a few months while he didn't kill or hurt anyone....?
Something more amazing is the fact that those protest started right the day after Morsi made a truce between Palestine and Israel... sarcasm.gif

The man was on the verge of altering Egypt's constitution to include virtual Sharia law. I think it's safe to say, every single Arab nation's future is better off with him gone.

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#53

Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Tchuck @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 16:54)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 03:58)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 02:32)
Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

Egyptians may not care now but what happens when the Army place its own backed representative in power permanently or install a general as leader much like Nasser in 1952. Don't get me wrong, Morsi needed to be replaced but it should have happened without military intervention. Now the situations very messy and I for one believe that the turmoil isn't over yet.

So, what would be your suggestion for replacing him? He didn't look like he was going to step down anytime soon. So what, wait until his term is up, let him ruin the country more, and then hope to replace him in an election? Which could also be rigged, specially if he continued with his style of giving himself ridiculous powers.

Sometimes you have to do it by force. Hopefully, they will just call new elections (didn't the election that put him in place end at like 51% to 48%? How can you elect someone if half the country does not want them?) and get the thing done. The military had said they have no intention of ruling the country, so who knows.

To be honest I don't know if there would have been a better option but you can't deny that this coup has undermined democratic values in Egypt just as much as Morsi appeared to have done. It took three days of protest to force the military to overthrow the President. Is that not shocking to you?

QUOTE
How can you elect someone if half the country does not want them?


How can you overthrow them if half the country does?

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#54

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:04 AM Edited by Raavi, 05 July 2013 - 12:09 AM.

Middle-Eastern countries seem to be more willing and able to defy the very grounds of psychology of authority (our invisible shackle), which is something that I applaud, and us westerns should draw a lesson from. Unfortunately due to lack of knowledge and that same principle of psychology of authority they only do so to a certain extent. While this may seem like a major victory and is celebrated as such - in essence they're merely swapping one evil for an evil with unknown boundaries, the military. They haven't given themselves any more say or power, to the contrary - they've put their lives in the hands of an authority that is constructed on violence and often times used as an instrument to knock down the very thing they so desperately crave and are willing to give their lives for.

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#55

Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:22 AM

I agree Raavi, whilst the nature of Morsi's government was exclusionary, corrupt and potentially dangerous it was, nonetheless democratically elected. This coup does not garantee that a more progressive regime will be installed comprised largely of the organisers of the protest movement. We can hope, but the historical pattern of military coups makes his seem unlikely.

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#56

Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:28 AM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:34)
Chris, I don't think the objections many have were to do with the fact Morsi wanted to steer Egypt in a more political-Islam-driven direction. More to do with the fact he undermined the fledgling democratic process by trying to award himself sweeping and deeply unconstitutional powers, crossing a red line by basically calling for a religiously-driven violent intervention in Syria, economic mismanagement, the use of police snipers against demonstrators in Port Said, and the appointing of violent Islamists historically linked to mass-casualty attacks against civilians and foreign nationals as regional governors.

100% Correct. Those were the things that really pushed the people against his government.

EgyptianStar
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#57

Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:39 AM

QUOTE (Chris Fromage @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 15:10)
Morsi was a good man, with good thoughts for his people.

Morsi won with 52% during the elections. Before the elections started, he did say what he wanted like changing the law, making the country more based on Islam, etc. . So the people knew what he would do.

The reason people (from outside Egypt) are misinformed about this, is because of the media. They made it look like whole Egypt was against Morsi while it was just a small part. 52% voted for Morsi and they will vote for him again if possible (mark my words).
It's the same story as Turkey a few weeks ago. Some called it a revolution, but according to the latest surveys, more then 60% of Turkey supports Erdogan (this was less before the protests started...). While the media mostly acted like the whole world was against him...
Same story...

Besides of that, a coup has never been good for a country. No matter what country or when, a coup has more negative sides then positive sides.

And another thing. Isn't it amazing how a country lived for years under control of a dictator (who killed hunderds of people), did nothing for more then 30 years. While people started protesting at Morsi after a few months while he didn't kill or hurt anyone....?
Something more amazing is the fact that those protest started right the day after Morsi made a truce between Palestine and Israel... sarcasm.gif

You're completely misguided. Morsi won an election with 12.5 million votes. barely beating his opponent. The petition for early elections and his resignation gained 22 million signatures from April to June. He alienated the youth who supported him in his campaign when he gave himself sweeping powers. He was basically acting as the head of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branch. He attempted many times to replace Judges with his own Muslim Brotherhood Judges by attempting to put 12,000 judges into early retirement. The Upper house of Parliament (Shura council) was dominated by Muslim Brotherhood members who sought to "ban ballet" make the legal age of marriage to 9 years old, those were laws they debated passing. His cabinet and appointments were all from the Islamist camp He appointed a member of a former Terrorist group that took part in mass shootings against Tourist and Policeman to Governor of Luxor the same State he Terrorized a few decades earlier.

Morsi was bad news for Egypt, the Millions who protested against him in conservative estimates number in the 20 Million. With some saying 33 Million People took part in the protest. The Military had no choice but to issue the Ultimatum and the later removal from office.

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#58

Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:41 AM

I bet people would be afraid to be the next president over there. That's unless conditions are so desperate that there are a lot of people who'd rather experience the few months of power and comfort than experience poverty their whole life.

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#59

Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:47 AM Edited by EgyptianStar, 05 July 2013 - 02:01 AM.

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 05:58)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 02:32)
Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

Egyptians may not care now but what happens when the Army place its own backed representative in power permanently or install a general as leader much like Nasser in 1952. Don't get me wrong, Morsi needed to be replaced but it should have happened without military intervention. Now the situations very messy and I for one believe that the turmoil isn't over yet.

The Army has no intention of ruling the country again. I can understand the fear. But lets look at the facts. When Mubarak was overthrown he was replaced by the Supreme council of the Armed Forces (Military Junta) right now their is an Interim President a Judge from the Supreme Constitutional court. He will form his own cabinet, and a national reconciliation platform will unite the many political parties in drafting a new constitutional convention, new parliamentary laws, and set the date for the new Presidential elections. The Military isn't interested in ruling again especially after the negativity the gained from they Year and a half they ruled.

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#60

Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:49 AM

QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 17:56)
QUOTE (Tchuck @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 16:54)
QUOTE (OchyGTA @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 03:58)
QUOTE (EgyptianStar @ Thursday, Jul 4 2013, 02:32)
Morsi's government was inept and incapable of ruling the country. Whether he won democratically or not. The people spoke out and the military defended the demands of the people. Call it a coup, a takeover, or whatever you want. Egyptians simply don't care what the world thinks.

Egyptians may not care now but what happens when the Army place its own backed representative in power permanently or install a general as leader much like Nasser in 1952. Don't get me wrong, Morsi needed to be replaced but it should have happened without military intervention. Now the situations very messy and I for one believe that the turmoil isn't over yet.

So, what would be your suggestion for replacing him? He didn't look like he was going to step down anytime soon. So what, wait until his term is up, let him ruin the country more, and then hope to replace him in an election? Which could also be rigged, specially if he continued with his style of giving himself ridiculous powers.

Sometimes you have to do it by force. Hopefully, they will just call new elections (didn't the election that put him in place end at like 51% to 48%? How can you elect someone if half the country does not want them?) and get the thing done. The military had said they have no intention of ruling the country, so who knows.

To be honest I don't know if there would have been a better option but you can't deny that this coup has undermined democratic values in Egypt just as much as Morsi appeared to have done. It took three days of protest to force the military to overthrow the President. Is that not shocking to you?

QUOTE
How can you elect someone if half the country does not want them?


How can you overthrow them if half the country does?

Morsi's rule was far from Democratic. This is actually a step into the Democratic process.




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