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Ubisoft and open world games

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Happyness
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#31

Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:51 AM

Assassin's Creed franchise sold, 51.72 million copies, not counting Steam sales.
Far Cry franchise sold, 9.27 million copies, according to vgchartz, both. Of course, Steam not included.

Edit, vgchartz is off the chartz, http://n4g.com/news/...over-55-million

Killerdude8
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#32

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 12:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.
And yeah, Ubisoft are doing really well. I loved all of their open-world games so far, even without the "so-called magic" of gta franchise. Which doesn't really exist, its just in people's heads.

Watch Dogs = My favorite game so far of this gen/next-gen, along with The Division.

Well, They do Have Manhunt, Max Payne, Red Dead and Midnight club to name a few, and last I remember those series and or individual titles were fairly successful.

GTA may have made Rockstar, but Rockstar made GTA.

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#33

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE (Killerdude8 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 13:03)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 12:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.
And yeah, Ubisoft are doing really well. I loved all of their open-world games so far, even without the "so-called magic" of gta franchise. Which doesn't really exist, its just in people's heads.

Watch Dogs = My favorite game so far of this gen/next-gen, along with The Division.

Well, They do Have Manhunt, Max Payne, Red Dead and Midnight club to name a few, and last I remember those series and or individual titles were fairly successful.

GTA may have made Rockstar, but Rockstar made GTA.

They aren't even that successful compared to GTA and other games, look at the charts.

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#34

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 04:09)
QUOTE (Killerdude8 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 13:03)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 12:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.
And yeah, Ubisoft are doing really well. I loved all of their open-world games so far, even without the "so-called magic" of gta franchise. Which doesn't really exist, its just in people's heads.

Watch Dogs = My favorite game so far of this gen/next-gen, along with The Division.

Well, They do Have Manhunt, Max Payne, Red Dead and Midnight club to name a few, and last I remember those series and or individual titles were fairly successful.

GTA may have made Rockstar, but Rockstar made GTA.

They aren't even that successful compared to GTA and other games, look at the charts.

Well No sh*t, I never said that, I basically implied that if R* had not made GTA, They still would be pretty successful.

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#35

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Cosmic Gypsy @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 01:07)
QUOTE (Grand Theft Savage @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 14:00)
There attention to detail isn't anywhere near Rokstar's, and I doubt it ever will be.

Actually, i would argue it is equal to or greater than R*'s attention to detail.

Huh? Only on Next Generation consoles, but that's because of such extra power.

@Everyone else.
Sure Rockstar wouldn't be successful without GTA, it could be NOW, but back in the day, no, but every developer starts somewhere obviously.
By the way, you're comparing a publisher/developer to just a developer guys, If you compared say, Take-Two to Ubisoft that would be more of a fair comparison.

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#36

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 09:32)
I beg to differ with the example you posted, one thing is a beverage and another is a game. If Rockstar is so "successful" even without GTA, WHY haven't their other franchises even reached at least 30% (?) of GTA's sales? You claim that Rockstar could make any game aside from GTA. Well. I don't see it done, I only see GTA as their only popular franchise, whilst sure Red Dead Redemption is successful, but not as known as GTA, I asked a lot of people about other Rockstar games, they only know about GTA.

Each has their opinion, I respect yours, but my opinion is different. Rockstar would be nothing without GTA.

Marketing and brand recognition. Like you said, people recognize GTA. You claim this means that other Rockstar games are inferior to GTA and Rockstar would have no success without the GTA franchise being it's flagship product. Red Dead was released without the GTA name and to a smaller audience and still had sales figures that rivaled GTA IV.

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#37

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:31 AM

Ubisoft have done great work lately but they're a very different kind of company to Rockstar. Rockstar have no time limits and don't appear to pay much attention to current trends. I think Ubisoft developers probably have a bit less creative freedom than Rockstar. For those reasons I don't think Ubisoft can make games that quite meet the standards of RDR for example.

Rockstar is unique though. They have faith enough in their creative vision to take quite large risks. Most developers have time limits and are restricted by current trends and pressure to include certain features into their games to ensure minimum risk. Given those limitations I'd say it's impressive that Ubisoft can make the games they make. They've found a nice middle ground that allows them to churn out lots of games that meet current trends yet still allow enough creative freedoms to keep them interesting and fresh. There's a clear desire to take on fulfilling projects.

EA seem to have no such desire and appear largely unable to differentiate between market research and creative design. Their games are frustratingly compromised and generic as a result.

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#38

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 18:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.

How when Red Dead Redemption sold ~15 million copies and is regarded by so many as the best game this gen? Max Payne 3 is a fantastic game as well.

Always funny seeing people bashing Rockstar to make other developers appear better than they actually are. Why can't you praise Ubisoft without sh*tting on Rockstar, huh?

I love Ubi. Maybe not as much as I used to because AC3 was complete garbage, but I still really like them. See? No need to bash another developer while praising one.

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#39

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 00:27)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.

really? what about Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, Bully, LA Noire, are you telling me that Rockstar is famous because of GTA? of course not, sure they won't be a very popular franchise as they are now but they'd still be a well known franchise like Ubisoft.

also the think I like about Ubisoft is that they do not make an Open-World GTA clone, for example: Saints Row and True Crime. It's different, take far cry for example an open-world fps on an island or Assassins Creed an action open world game set in 1500 AD or upcoming games like The Division, a co-op RPG open world game or The Crew an open-world racing game, well there are many open-world racing games but this is unique IMO because you have the whole USA as your map, which is massive and tons of features beside.

AC III isn't garbage, it's still better than many games out there, garbage isn't the right word, it was disappointing more like.

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#40

Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 13:49)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 18:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.

How when Red Dead Redemption sold ~15 million copies and is regarded by so many as the best game this gen? Max Payne 3 is a fantastic game as well.

Always funny seeing people bashing Rockstar to make other developers appear better than they actually are. Why can't you praise Ubisoft without sh*tting on Rockstar, huh?

I love Ubi. Maybe not as much as I used to because AC3 was complete garbage, but I still really like them. See? No need to bash another developer while praising one.

How am I praising Ubisoft? I fail to see in one of my posts praising Ubisoft. Bashing Rockstar, sure. I am, I hate them lately. But praising Ubisoft? I am not.

Also, yes, AC3 was a disaster.

@Ace Yes, Rockstar are famous because of GTA, can't one form an opinion on Rockstar without getting trashed?

meta187
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#41

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:15 PM Edited by meta187, 17 June 2013 - 01:18 PM.

QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 11:03)
can't one form an opinion on Rockstar without getting trashed?

Well an opinion is one thing, you certainly don't have to be a veracious fanboy of all things Rockstar to contribute to these forums, some of the staff members I've known here for years have a few cutting criticisms of style and creative choices on a few of their games and we still get on well enough but when you make a broad generalization like:

QUOTE (Happy Gilmore)

without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.


You're only stating the truth of your opinion. Rockstar were making games prior to GTA III such as Smuggler's Run, Oni and Wild Metal. Were any of them runaway hits? No. But I could point to Ubisoft and rattle off quite a few false starts in their early years that were just paying the bills or barely until they found a hit concept or two. There's nothing wrong with that, just part of finding your feet as an early gaming company.

When you register here within the year (at a GTA forum no less), refer to your negative opinion as fact and call into question the creative integrity of a game that is the focus of an entire forum with statements that are fashioned to elicit disagreement and provocation it could only be expected that you get what you were after. Was that your goal here?

Happyness
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#42

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

Right, it is my opinion, and it is not a fact. I acknowledge it. icon14.gif

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#43

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

Really you listed them all.

Fallout/Skyrim
GTA
Far Cry
etc

Easily the top ones.

With Ubisoft's current lineup, if they could add Far Cry: Blood Dragon 2 and Rainbow Six: Vegas 3 (f*ck that patriots sh*t) Then I would be seriously just bowing down to them.

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#44

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 11:03)
How am I praising Ubisoft? I fail to see in one of my posts praising Ubisoft. Bashing Rockstar, sure. I am, I hate them lately. But praising Ubisoft? I am not.

I wasn't specifically talking about you. There's just many people that feel the need to bash Rockstar while praising another developer (or thier games) in this section, always make fun of the majority of GTAF's users' fanboyism whenever a Rockstar game wins a poll here, etc. It is annoying because fanboyism is nothing new and it exists on every forum. Yet they make it seem like GTA/R* fanboys are the worst, when they're far from it. confused.gif

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#45

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 12:43)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 11:03)
How am I praising Ubisoft? I fail to see in one of my posts praising Ubisoft. Bashing Rockstar, sure. I am, I hate them lately. But praising Ubisoft? I am not.

I wasn't specifically talking about you. There's just many people that feel the need to bash Rockstar while praising another developer (or thier games) in this section, always make fun of the majority of GTAF's users' fanboyism whenever a Rockstar game wins a poll here, etc. It is annoying because fanboyism is nothing new and it exists on every forum. Yet they make it seem like GTA/R* fanboys are the worst, when they're far from it. confused.gif

COD fanboys are definitely the worst, that's true. But GTA fans should be on the top ten list, you should see the amount of people complaining inside and outside of the GTA community.

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#46

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 23:43)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 11:03)
How am I praising Ubisoft? I fail to see in one of my posts praising Ubisoft. Bashing Rockstar, sure. I am, I hate them lately. But praising Ubisoft? I am not.

I wasn't specifically talking about you. There's just many people that feel the need to bash Rockstar while praising another developer (or thier games) in this section, always make fun of the majority of GTAF's users' fanboyism whenever a Rockstar game wins a poll here, etc. It is annoying because fanboyism is nothing new and it exists on every forum. Yet they make it seem like GTA/R* fanboys are the worst, when they're far from it. confused.gif

Bias is and should be expected on a forum like this. I'd imagine the same would be true on a COD forum or the like. I'm not saying R* should get sucked off at every opportunity, but there's nothing wrong with praising a developer for the creation of a series this site is dedicated to.

OT: Ubisoft's open world games in general have been pretty good. ACIII was a bit disappointing (though still a good game), but I like FC3. Like R* in their early years Ubisoft have improved in more ways than one with their open world titles.

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#47

Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

Definitely one of the best. I think a lot of that credit should go to their engines as well. The AC engine is easily one of the best in the industry: gorgeous, crazy field of view, and crazy amounts of NPCs.

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#48

Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (meta187 @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 12:15)
QUOTE (Happyness @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 11:03)
can't one form an opinion on Rockstar without getting trashed?

Well an opinion is one thing, you certainly don't have to be a veracious fanboy of all things Rockstar to contribute to these forums, some of the staff members I've known here for years have a few cutting criticisms of style and creative choices on a few of their games and we still get on well enough but when you make a broad generalization like:

QUOTE (Happy Gilmore)

without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.


You're only stating the truth of your opinion. Rockstar were making games prior to GTA III such as Smuggler's Run, Oni and Wild Metal. Were any of them runaway hits? No. But I could point to Ubisoft and rattle off quite a few false starts in their early years that were just paying the bills or barely until they found a hit concept or two. There's nothing wrong with that, just part of finding your feet as an early gaming company.

When you register here within the year (at a GTA forum no less), refer to your negative opinion as fact and call into question the creative integrity of a game that is the focus of an entire forum with statements that are fashioned to elicit disagreement and provocation it could only be expected that you get what you were after. Was that your goal here?

I'm sorry but he has a point. Rockstar is known for their GTA game. That is their only AAA title up until recently with RDR. Now they got another one. But what help RDR so much was its GTA style. If Rockstar didn't make GTA they wouldn't be on top. Max Payne 3 was a flop and LA Noire was hated cause it wasn't GTA. Everyone knows Rockstar as the people who made GTA and most buy it expecting a GTA type game with them. That's why I consider Rockstar one of the best at open world games.

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#49

Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

It's affected me personally as well, I've been gaming for a number of years and now Ubisoft are appealing to me almost as much as R* now, who have appealed to me for at least eight or so years.

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#50

Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (JBanton @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 20:19)
It's affected me personally as well, I've been gaming for a number of years and now Ubisoft are appealing to me almost as much as R* now, who have appealed to me for at least eight or so years.

They are pulling out some big guns, The Division is looking quite appealing. They've had some rough patches in the past, but I believe this game might just hit some strong notes and sell a sh*t load in the long run. If you haven't seen the Gameplay Video of the Division you should defz give it a a good look. Looks absolutely amazing.

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#51

Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:26 PM Edited by Zancudo, 17 June 2013 - 08:33 PM.

QUOTE (JBanton @ Monday, Jun 17 2013, 20:19)
It's affected me personally as well, I've been gaming for a number of years and now Ubisoft are appealing to me almost as much as R* now, who have appealed to me for at least eight or so years.

Maybe it's because Rockstar didn't have any new IPs/innovative ideas this generation, apart from Grand Theft Auto IV and L.A. Noire; all they did were games based on what they have already accomplished in the past. Ubisoft tries to produce something fresh, like WATCH_DOGS or Tom Clancy's The Division, or even this Assassin's Creed franchise which at least tries to go into completely different themes and gameplay abilities, like the whole sea fights in ACIV, a thing we haven't seen much in games before.

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#52

Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

QUOTE (Happyness @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 14:57)
For the love of God, keep Rockstar out of this, without GTA they'd be nothing. That's the truth.
And yeah, Ubisoft are doing really well. I loved all of their open-world games so far, even without the "so-called magic" of gta franchise. Which doesn't really exist, its just in people's heads.

Watch Dogs = My favorite game so far of this gen/next-gen, along with The Division.

...Yes, the magic exists in people's heads. That's a fact. You say this, yet it seems as if you don't understand it. Also, you really do seem cynical and resentful towards the hardcore GTA fans. My theory is because it scares you to see bigger GTA fans for whatever reason.

And a lot of you guys are utterly laughable lol.gif Comparing GTA's detail to games like The Division. I'm not a mean guy, but how idiotic can you get? The last GTA that we've had a chance to explore its detail was GTA IV back in 2008 (R*s first PS3 game) and you're comparing the detail to that of next-gen games. Gee, big f*cking surprise that these games like WD and The Division look to have better detail. facedesk.gif If you're going to fairly compare detail to GTA, then compare GTAV's detail to the dumbed-down PS3 version of Watch Dogs. That is a fairer comparison.

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#53

Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (meta187 @ Sunday, Jun 16 2013, 13:14)
Red Dead Redemption, LA Noire, Bully Scholarship Edition - I could easily point to any one of those and see that Rockstar Games isn't a one trick pony when it comes to applying detail, functionality and depth to an open world game. That said, others are catching up and moving forward with the next gen tech so obviously that's something they have to consider when moving forward. The one thing none of these next gen open world games are going to be able to do is capture the flavor, humor and style of a Grand Theft Auto game. That's fully organic, done in house and can only be imitated, never duplicated or surpassed. Many have tried, many have failed.

I have to disagree a bit with that. I'm going a generation backwards instead of forwards, but the Scarface game practically mimicked the atmosphere of a GTA III era GTA game, it's very humorous, and it still has a lot of style (in a way that still makes it unique). I'd go as far as saying that game is better than the majority of GTA III era games. It's probably not as good as GTA SA, but it's arguably better than GTA VC (especially on consoles where GTA III and GTA VC have horrible cameras).

As for Ubisoft (mainly Ubisoft Montreal), I can safely say that they're now kingpins of the sandbox genre. They are definitely up there with R* and Bethesda. Not only do they make quality sandbox games, but they release quality sandbox games in quick succession (which is a difficult feat). My expectations for Far Cry 3 weren't that high (probably due to the relatively bad multiplayer reveal), but I really enjoyed the game. It was easily one of 2012's best titles.

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#54

Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:14 AM Edited by Futo, 30 June 2013 - 06:19 AM.

I thought AC2, AC Brotherhood and FC3 were outstanding open worlds but the only thing is they have no replay value to me. Once your finished them they're done. The last 2 AC games have been mediocre though and i think i'm done with that series. I rushed through Revelations and didn't finish the woefully boring AC3. I like the premise for Black Flag but my expectations are low.

So yeah Ubisoft do make nice worlds but NOT ones that u want to stick around in once you're finished the campaign. Don't get me wrong i absolutely loved the 3 games i mentioned first and was totally absorbed while playing them but once you reach the end the world becomes redundant. Watchdogs looks good but i get the feeling the same thing will happen with that. Ubisoft have turned super greedy these days too, which i feel hinders their titles. Too many similar menu's and hud's across their games.

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#55

Posted 30 June 2013 - 07:36 AM

I absolutely loved FC3, very much looking forward to playing Watch Dogs, but probably won't for quite some time.

I can't wait for a next gen Far Cry.. that may be when I finally get a new gen system (assuming of course another GTA doesn't come out first).. which is when I will probably get WD for the first time as well too.

Rockstar wouldn't be anything without GTA? Sure they would, because they are some great developers.. but the fact of the matter is that they are indeed the ones responsible for making it.
That's something said that could be totally interchangable with anyone and their great works.

Spielberg wouldn't be **** without Jaws.
Hendrix wouldn't be anyone without Are You Experienced.
[Insert a list of irrational assumptions of a skewed reality here]




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