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Stephan90
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#61

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:13 PM Edited by Stephan123, 12 May 2013 - 04:19 PM.

QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 16:06)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:52)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:45)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:21)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:17)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 13:46)
Then how do you explain that the Golden Dawn party in Greece (Nazi party 2.0) has gained 18 of 300 parliament seats in the last election?

That's because every other party is absolutely sh*t (including this one too of course) and people don't know who to vote for as the two old prevalent ones turned out to be corrupted. Therefore people who voted for them had no other choice, being disappointed by the other parties, and most probably they do not agree with the their true ideology. Personally, I don't think they will ever take over, there are many people against them.

BnB, could you give us an opinion out of first hand? I would like to hear what you think about the situation.

They say what simple people (lower class) want to hear, they criticize the other parties mostly the two, which pretty much led the country to recession, and the media accusing them of serving the purposes of the government (which is not very far from reality). Also, they offer meals to poor greek people and they support them in general. For example, taking advantage of the inability of the police to deal with criminality, people can call them as they would the police especially for cases involving immigrants and sometimes they are the last resort. As you can see that's a pretty easy way to earn votes. Finally, they accuse the immigrants as the cause of the unemployment, which is not true because most of them work where the greeks will not.

What do you think, if everything goes on the same way? Will there be a point where the government will be overthrown by the people violently?

I don't think this will ever happen to be honest, unless things get a lot worse.

I am totally convinced that the political austerity strategy, that Greece is forced into, is absolutely wrong. So, I don't think anything will become better, as long as your country has to live with an economical wrong currency. The country literally saves itself into the debt crisis, because the economy gets more and more destroyed and the GDP shrinks every single year automatically increasing the debt rate. confused.gif

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#62

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:22 PM Edited by Raavi, 12 May 2013 - 04:25 PM.

The idea of a "closer union" is intriguing, especially in these seemingly bleak times. But is it the solution? The European Union is dealing with ever increasing eurosceptism, unacceptably high unemployment, and impuissant economic prospects. This is worrying, what's even more worrying is the fact that populist parties both extremist and moderate are getting more and more exposure and are gaining popularity every day. Popularity that can be used to score electoral successes. Which may mean nothing serious today but can be devastating in the long run. One thing is certain; Europe needs to change its course, the longer it takes for our well pampered MEPs to acknowledge this and act accordingly, a fortiori drastically the changes will have to be. We, as in Europe are basically living beyond our means. And in the meantime a majority EU Member States are sliding deeper and deeper into a recession. And austerity, supposedly the magic cure, is threatening to destroy the European ideal bit by bit. Needles to say; structural reforms both on European as on regional level are needed now more than ever. However, despite all our "problems" (which are futile in comparison to the rest of this planet), the European Union was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Justifiably so. Europe is the most prosperous continent on earth, Europeans can do as they please, they can live, work, travel were they want. This inconceivable in large parts of this world. So in essence every country in the EU is already working in a European context. But governments prefer to cling onto national sovereignty as that's the only thing they can sell to their respective voter bases. Imagine national politicians saying how it is and say that the EU has the final say. I assure you, water will catch on fire.

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#63

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:33 PM

The capital city will be built on the uninhabited (well mostly) volcanic island of Iceland, and the president will be a huge talking computer which we have to obey or it will destroy the whole of Europe.

It's a sh*t fantasy

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#64

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:13)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 16:06)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:52)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:45)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:21)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:17)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 13:46)
Then how do you explain that the Golden Dawn party in Greece (Nazi party 2.0) has gained 18 of 300 parliament seats in the last election?

That's because every other party is absolutely sh*t (including this one too of course) and people don't know who to vote for as the two old prevalent ones turned out to be corrupted. Therefore people who voted for them had no other choice, being disappointed by the other parties, and most probably they do not agree with the their true ideology. Personally, I don't think they will ever take over, there are many people against them.

BnB, could you give us an opinion out of first hand? I would like to hear what you think about the situation.

They say what simple people (lower class) want to hear, they criticize the other parties mostly the two, which pretty much led the country to recession, and the media accusing them of serving the purposes of the government (which is not very far from reality). Also, they offer meals to poor greek people and they support them in general. For example, taking advantage of the inability of the police to deal with criminality, people can call them as they would the police especially for cases involving immigrants and sometimes they are the last resort. As you can see that's a pretty easy way to earn votes. Finally, they accuse the immigrants as the cause of the unemployment, which is not true because most of them work where the greeks will not.

What do you think, if everything goes on the same way? Will there be a point where the government will be overthrown by the people violently?

I don't think this will ever happen to be honest, unless things get a lot worse.

I am totally convinced that the political austerity strategy, that Greece is forced into, is absolutely wrong. So, I don't think anything will become better, as long as your country has to live with an economical wrong currency. The country literally saves itself into the debt crisis, because the economy gets more and more destroyed and the GDP shrinks every single year automatically increasing the debt rate. confused.gif

I agree, but violence will not be the first reaction especially a coup.

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#65

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:40)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:13)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 16:06)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:52)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:45)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:21)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:17)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 13:46)
Then how do you explain that the Golden Dawn party in Greece (Nazi party 2.0) has gained 18 of 300 parliament seats in the last election?

That's because every other party is absolutely sh*t (including this one too of course) and people don't know who to vote for as the two old prevalent ones turned out to be corrupted. Therefore people who voted for them had no other choice, being disappointed by the other parties, and most probably they do not agree with the their true ideology. Personally, I don't think they will ever take over, there are many people against them.

BnB, could you give us an opinion out of first hand? I would like to hear what you think about the situation.

They say what simple people (lower class) want to hear, they criticize the other parties mostly the two, which pretty much led the country to recession, and the media accusing them of serving the purposes of the government (which is not very far from reality). Also, they offer meals to poor greek people and they support them in general. For example, taking advantage of the inability of the police to deal with criminality, people can call them as they would the police especially for cases involving immigrants and sometimes they are the last resort. As you can see that's a pretty easy way to earn votes. Finally, they accuse the immigrants as the cause of the unemployment, which is not true because most of them work where the greeks will not.

What do you think, if everything goes on the same way? Will there be a point where the government will be overthrown by the people violently?

I don't think this will ever happen to be honest, unless things get a lot worse.

I am totally convinced that the political austerity strategy, that Greece is forced into, is absolutely wrong. So, I don't think anything will become better, as long as your country has to live with an economical wrong currency. The country literally saves itself into the debt crisis, because the economy gets more and more destroyed and the GDP shrinks every single year automatically increasing the debt rate. confused.gif

I agree, but violence will not be the first reaction especially a coup.

I agree there is only a very small percentage of people that are actually willing to fight and potentially get hurt or worse. You won't be seeing a European Spring anytime soon.

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#66

Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (Raavi @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 16:43)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:40)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:13)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 16:06)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:52)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:45)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 17:21)
QUOTE (BnB @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 15:17)
QUOTE (Stephan123 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 13:46)
Then how do you explain that the Golden Dawn party in Greece (Nazi party 2.0) has gained 18 of 300 parliament seats in the last election?

That's because every other party is absolutely sh*t (including this one too of course) and people don't know who to vote for as the two old prevalent ones turned out to be corrupted. Therefore people who voted for them had no other choice, being disappointed by the other parties, and most probably they do not agree with the their true ideology. Personally, I don't think they will ever take over, there are many people against them.

BnB, could you give us an opinion out of first hand? I would like to hear what you think about the situation.

They say what simple people (lower class) want to hear, they criticize the other parties mostly the two, which pretty much led the country to recession, and the media accusing them of serving the purposes of the government (which is not very far from reality). Also, they offer meals to poor greek people and they support them in general. For example, taking advantage of the inability of the police to deal with criminality, people can call them as they would the police especially for cases involving immigrants and sometimes they are the last resort. As you can see that's a pretty easy way to earn votes. Finally, they accuse the immigrants as the cause of the unemployment, which is not true because most of them work where the greeks will not.

What do you think, if everything goes on the same way? Will there be a point where the government will be overthrown by the people violently?

I don't think this will ever happen to be honest, unless things get a lot worse.

I am totally convinced that the political austerity strategy, that Greece is forced into, is absolutely wrong. So, I don't think anything will become better, as long as your country has to live with an economical wrong currency. The country literally saves itself into the debt crisis, because the economy gets more and more destroyed and the GDP shrinks every single year automatically increasing the debt rate. confused.gif

I agree, but violence will not be the first reaction especially a coup.

I agree there is only a very small percentage of people that are actually willing to fight and potentially get hurt or worse. You won't be seeing a European Spring anytime soon.

Not sure if it would be a "Spring" or an "Autumn", depends on what comes after.

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#67

Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:02 PM

It won't be London or English as most of us want to leave the EU now so I doubt we would join the United Europe.

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#68

Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:17 PM Edited by Stephan123, 12 May 2013 - 05:30 PM.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Greece could be a very rich country. All around Greece under the sea, there are oil and natural gas sources, at least worth 300 billion €, which is almost as much as the whole Greek debt.

http://www.zeit.de/w...riechenland-oel

The problem is Greece is not capable of mining it. Also, the EU doesn't even talk about getting mining licences for other European companies, although it would give Europe cheap energy for decades and solving the debt problem of Greece to a certain degree. Instead the USA and Russia do everything to get the mining licences...

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#69

Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:41 PM

Language: English
Capital: New York

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#70

Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

Dublin, because we're all mad bastards.

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#71

Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:02)
It won't be London or English as most of us want to leave the EU now so I doubt we would join the United Europe.

I'm pretty sure that the vaguely accurate and impartial polls that don't use loaded questions tend to show general support for the EU. I don't think I've seen a single impartial poll which shows a majority against EU membership.

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#72

Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

The capital would be Brussels, because it is the citiy that has the most influence on the EU.
The officail languages would be French and English because they are the most talked languages in the EU.

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#73

Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 19:26)
QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:02)
It won't be London or English as most of us want to leave the EU now so I doubt we would join the United Europe.

I'm pretty sure that the vaguely accurate and impartial polls that don't use loaded questions tend to show general support for the EU. I don't think I've seen a single impartial poll which shows a majority against EU membership.

Well then you've been looking at the wrong polls.

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#74

Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:27)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 19:26)
QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:02)
It won't be London or English as most of us want to leave the EU now so I doubt we would join the United Europe.

I'm pretty sure that the vaguely accurate and impartial polls that don't use loaded questions tend to show general support for the EU. I don't think I've seen a single impartial poll which shows a majority against EU membership.

Well then you've been looking at the wrong polls.

Wrong by what metric, may I ask? Your personal opinion? I've not seen a single wide ranging poll conducted by a polling organisation that asks the question "should Britain leave the EU" in which the answer is majority "yes". Does such a poll exist, and if so care to reference it?

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#75

Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:53 PM Edited by El Zilcho, 12 May 2013 - 08:56 PM.

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:47)
QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:27)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 19:26)
QUOTE (LewisMiller @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 18:02)
It won't be London or English as most of us want to leave the EU now so I doubt we would join the United Europe.

I'm pretty sure that the vaguely accurate and impartial polls that don't use loaded questions tend to show general support for the EU. I don't think I've seen a single impartial poll which shows a majority against EU membership.

Well then you've been looking at the wrong polls.

Wrong by what metric, may I ask? Your personal opinion? I've not seen a single wide ranging poll conducted by a polling organisation that asks the question "should Britain leave the EU" in which the answer is majority "yes". Does such a poll exist, and if so care to reference it?

Would you consider generally Euro-favourable publications such as the Guardian reliable? You should do, considering their question is as unloaded as a water pistol.

I don't agree with the sentiment, but considering the propensity for trash publications such as the Sun or the Daily Mail (popular with many for some reason) to perpetuate Euromyths and play to the prejudices of many, why wouldn't many Brits want to leave? I wouldn't be surprised if the 50 - 55% results from many polls are accurate, because how often do you see the facts about the EU laid out?

I don't think people would genuinely vote to leave if, in the run up to a vote, they were finally properly educated on the facts, but for voting intention I don't think it's absurd at all to see majorities in favour of exit.

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#76

Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:56 PM

I actually wouldn't mind it if we all joined into some super country. For a start, all the horrible ugly cities in the north of the UK would actually not be that bad compared to some of the armpits that there are in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe. Hull and Middlesbrough may have unemployment and council housing, but at least they don't have communist tower blocks and genocidal mass graves.

We'd dominate in sports as well, and mop the floor at the Olympics and World cups.

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#77

Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

The capital would be Bath, UK because it has a funny name.
And they would speak Latin.

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#78

Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:53)
Would you consider generally Euro-favourable publications such as the Guardian reliable? You should do, considering their question is as unloaded as a water pistol.

Interesting, that wasn't something I had seen or would expect. As you rightly point out, though, it's hard to properly quantify support in isolation and away from the event itself. In fact, the Guardian did a piece on this more recently that makes some pretty strong points. Also interesting to note that according to the YouGov polls cited in that article, the differential between those against the EU and those for it is actually lower now than it has been in much less turbulent times- so hardly the "growing disdain" that Stephan refers to.

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#79

Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 22:18)
QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:53)
Would you consider generally Euro-favourable publications such as the Guardian reliable? You should do, considering their question is as unloaded as a water pistol.

Interesting, that wasn't something I had seen or would expect. As you rightly point out, though, it's hard to properly quantify support in isolation and away from the event itself. In fact, the Guardian did a piece on this more recently that makes some pretty strong points. Also interesting to note that according to the YouGov polls cited in that article, the differential between those against the EU and those for it is actually lower now than it has been in much less turbulent times- so hardly the "growing disdain" that Stephan refers to.

I would agree mostly, but in times of austerity and directionless anger at government and the establishment, it does stand to reason that people would fuel their already latent dislike for the EU, which they do not understand (are bombarded with negativity about). Considering the lack of trust formed by this, I would say that disdain is probably increasing, if only because of a deficit of understanding and a lack of adequate scapegoats - and the EU is a perfect scapegoat for backbench Conservatives. Add to that complicity in austerity and the chaos brewed by it, stir in a sprinkle of genuine fault with Brussels and we can see very quickly how and why this perception has formed.

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#80

Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (lzw3 @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 21:07)
The capital would be Bath, UK because it has a funny name.
And they would speak Latin.

I would say Baden-Baden is funnier.
But I wouldn't mind being from the capital of Europe (I live in Bath), hell I'd love to be the President/Prime Minister/King/Dear Leader/Malevolent Overlord.

I'd imagine French, English and German to be the official languages, and a new capital city to be built, similar to Washington DC. Location-wise, I'd place it on the banks of the River Oder in central Europe, and make it it's own member state.

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#81

Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:24 AM

QUOTE
We see two major trends in the world today: the first is toward a multicultural, scientific, tolerant society; the other, as evidenced by terrorism, is fundamentalist and monocultural.
I believe I read this quote from a Michio Kaku statement awhile back. I think the outcome would become one of those two. Hopefully, it will be the first, but there is a possibility of the world becoming something like that other society. You may think it's impossible for the world to become the latter, but if you viewed this from the people who support that type of society's point of view, they tend to view it as it being more likely to become the second type of society.


Either way, we will find out in these next generations.

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#82

Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:37 AM

A United States of Europe? The day nationalism dies is the day we can give a f*ck to talk about such a thing.

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#83

Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:00 AM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 22:38)
He does have a point, while tension is far from cataclysmic levels, the rise of Eurosceptic parties across Europe, and the newspaper fuelled bile towards the EU in the UK, show just how unpopular it is becoming. Add that to a structure that is fundamentally undemocratic, and one that is pursuing hugely unpopular and ineffective economic policy, and you have a recipe for disdain.

Let's not forget, the majority of people do not understand, or agree with, the EU's programme of further integration. Furthermore, the fact that austerity dominates the agenda has had a chilling effect on growth and only contributes further to the view of European despotism - all too easy for newspapers to spin into further hatred.

It's a bit of a leap from "approval of the EU tends to fluctuate and is far from universal" to saying most of Europe blames the EU for their financial difficulties, hates the EU and the other member-states and are on the verge of armed revolution. Given that I didn't dispute the former, and the latter is the gist of his argument, no I wouldn't say he has a point.

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#84

Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:23 AM Edited by Stephan123, 13 May 2013 - 09:14 AM.

QUOTE (Libertyking @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 20:10)
The capital would be Brussels, because it is the citiy that has the most influence on the EU.
The officail languages would be French and English because they are the most talked languages in the EU.

As for the languages:

Official languages First language Additional language
English 13% 38%
German 16% 11%
French 12% 12%

http://ec.europa.eu/.../ebs_386_en.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/..._386_anx_en.pdf

It's totally stupid to believe that the big countries would adapt to another language. Especially France is very proud of its langauge and has a state agency that is only there to preserve the French language.


As for the most powerful city in Europe, I would dispute that it was Brussel. For everyone outside of Europe, the € crisis is totally not under control, which can be seen because the volume of the ESM and the ESFS gets bigger and bigger, also the European Central Bank plays a major role, in breaking EU law, to resque the €.

So the most important cities are: Frankfurt am Main (headquarter of the ECB) and the headquarters of the government of the countries financing the €.

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#85

Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

QUOTE (Melchior @ Monday, May 13 2013, 08:00)
QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Sunday, May 12 2013, 22:38)
He does have a point, while tension is far from cataclysmic levels, the rise of Eurosceptic parties across Europe, and the newspaper fuelled bile towards the EU in the UK, show just how unpopular it is becoming. Add that to a structure that is fundamentally undemocratic, and one that is pursuing hugely unpopular and ineffective economic policy, and you have a recipe for disdain.

Let's not forget, the majority of people do not understand, or agree with, the EU's programme of further integration. Furthermore, the fact that austerity dominates the agenda has had a chilling effect on growth and only contributes further to the view of European despotism - all too easy for newspapers to spin into further hatred.

It's a bit of a leap from "approval of the EU tends to fluctuate and is far from universal" to saying most of Europe blames the EU for their financial difficulties, hates the EU and the other member-states and are on the verge of armed revolution. Given that I didn't dispute the former, and the latter is the gist of his argument, no I wouldn't say he has a point.

I'm uninterested in his argument, only that there is indeed a shred to truth to his viewpoint - the EU is unpopular at the moment, particularly in Greece, Spain, Italy etc. and even in the UK.

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#86

Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:15 AM

My opinion:

The European Union will become a super state one day in remote future (not this century). They remove our nations slow and steady, so slow that we will will got used to it before the European super state is founded. The official name won't be "United States of Europe", the name "European Union" will stay, one reason (maybe the only one) for this is just to differ from the "United States of America".

The capitol will be and should stay Brussels. Located in a country that lies between the "Big 3" (Germany, France, UK) in a densely populated area, the so called Blue Banana (http://en.m.wikipedi...iki/blue_banana). The headquarters is already in Brussels and everyone got used to it. Small country, no one of the "boss states" gets hurt.

The working languages will be and should stay English, French, German. The states will keep their current national languages.

Needless to say: of course I can be totally wrong with what I expect to happen.

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#87

Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:53 PM

Since Norway, Switzerland, Croatia, Iceland, Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Moldova, Ukraine (May soon be a part of the EU), Belarus and Ukraine are not a part of the EU, I guess those countries would not be a part of it. They of course had to have English, Fench and German as official languages, and it had to be a republic, as no newly formed country is a monarchy anymore. Brussels, London, Paris, Berlin or Geneva may be potenial capitals. I hope that it never happens, though. Let countries be united without literally being it.  


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#88

Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:10 PM

Yup. That would be pretty awesome. Britain, America and Europe VS the Arabs. Some competition right there.


Killerdude8
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#89

Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

I can smell it in the Air, Somethin will happen soon.

 

Rebellion! and for once, it won't be in Mexico!


Pyroshox
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#90

Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:16 AM

I can smell it in the Air, Somethin will happen soon.

 

Rebellion! and for once, it won't be in Mexico!

 

Yeah, you just get that feeling after learning about all this stuff going on in Europe, but the question is when.





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