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Pedestrian Life and Interaction

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Fuzzknuckles
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#1

Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:54 PM Edited by Fuzzknuckles, 14 March 2013 - 02:04 PM.

OK, now, before anyone jumps down my throat:

1. This is a long post.

2. This is an old post, recycled, for the purposes of reopening an old discussion.

3. This has been covered to some extent, but raises questions that have not been answered before.

4. This is a really long post.

If there are any outdated references in here, please point them out. This was initially written for IV, but none of it happened. I feel much more of this is now possible. Let me know what you think.

TOPIC BEGINS:

One thing that has always set GTA games apart from all competitors is the free roaming, living breathing city. Even in the early days of GTA, you could walk around for hours just watching the world go by. As the game progressed in to the 3D age, the streets of the city became infested with a further living breathing entity - the pedestrian.

A good source of nutrition, the pedsetrian can be found in most places, though in a stark contrast to the wild life of the real world, they are rarely to be found in rural and wooded areas. Mostly they can be found grazing for fast food in the sub-urban and densely overpopulated city sprawls. These pedestrians provide a useful source of meat to the GTA player.

Without pedestrians, the streets would be empty. There would be no one to rob. There would be no drivers to steal cars from. There would be no one to serve you food. But most importantly, there would be no one to distract you from your run with strange comments, harsh criticisms or gracious compliments. Without pedestrians, the world would suck.

Whilst playing through San Andreas, I have spent many an hour just wandering the streets. Unarmed, save for a camera normally. The pedestrians make the game feel like a real environment, rather than the cold empty streets of your average game, or the dark dirty sci-fi corridors of "FPSExtremeGuts32" or whatever. The pedestrians are a source of humour, fun and money.

I've wandered the streets and stopped to hear the conversations of the people that meet on the street. I've laughed my ass off at these little peds for hours. But one thing has always bugged me...

I want to talk back.

I know, I know, San An lets you talk back, but the next generation game has to take this one step further, by letting you initiate a conversation. In the "Where do we go from here?" thread I've touched on this idea, but I'd like to flesh it out a little more here.

In the same way as you recruit someone to your gang, you target a ped. WHoa there pickle! Instead of licking a shot straight to their dome, why not try to work things out the gentlemanly way? Use that tool between those two shoulders. Perhaps if you were to use the down button on the d-pad you could say Hi, in the same way as peds do when they meet? Sure, this would probably lead to some fairly random conversations about eating from trash cans or whatever, but this could also be a good way of giving out mission information. If you are chasing someone on foot and lose sight of them, you could ask a ped "Which way did he go?" and they point them out - the person you are chasing re-appears on the mini map.

Conversations wouldn't need to be more than the current 6 line exchanges that you already have in San An. It would be a nice little optional extra that lets you engage with the people in the environment more. You could use the response feature that exists (left for negative, right for positive, down to initiate conversation and up to recruit (as previously discussed elsewhere, the ability to recruit peds/cops/military would be influenced by your stats - respect and possibly the introduction of Notoriety and Fear - Notoriety for how well known you are, Respect for how well respected you are and Fear for how afraid of you people are - if Fear is maxed out people join you no questions asked - if its middling, people might abandon you during a fight or whatever)).

It might be nice to see more open interiors - that you can walk straight into with no loading - kind of like the Vice City shops - and have the peds interact in those areas. It was said sometime during the hype-fest preceding San An that you would be able to follow a ped around on their daily routine. Not really fulfilled to its greatest potential as peds don't seem to be able to enter buildings like CJ can. If they could enter buildings, you really could follow someone to work. It would probably take a lot of work at the R* Lab to give every ped-class a job, but then, they are already assigned "rich/poor" type tags, to denote what type of car they drive, so why not? It might sound odd, in a kind-of nasty-stalky kind of way, but I'd really like to watch a ped just go through their day. Start to finish. If they used the same ability to enter houses, as they used in house breaking but for general use, you could follow the ped home etc... not necessarily for any devious intention, I might add.

It would be nice to break into a house and see some sort of family scene that you could either observe from the shadows or bust the whole thing wide open. That would be true freedom in the open ended world. To be able to go truly ANYWHERE at ANY time. This would mean a lot of Generica™ coming into play, which is something a lot of people have had a whinge about - the generic interiors. But really, how different is your house to the one next door to yours? If R* assigned the same method of randomly colouring a car to the walls of an interior as you enter, it would start to make things feel different. But imagine being able to walk in on all those peds in their natural habitats... How cool?

The next obvious step after expanding the interaction with peds would be to expand the interaction with girlfriends and npcs. And no, when I say expand interaction with girlfriends, I don't mean I want it to be all porno-jiggy-jiggy-sex-f*ck where you can see it "going in and everything". No, I want to be able to talk to the girlfriends, answer their questions. This might be fairly tricky whilst 5 star wanted on a date, but it'd be optional once again. Katie Zhan in particular poses some pretty odd questions about sex/death/amputation so why can't I respond? Another 10 hours in the vocal booth for each actor is probably the main reason but hey, I want it all here so humour me... If you were thinking along the lines of adding the up and down buttons on the keypad for ped interaction, you could use one button to proposition ladies - to offer them out for a date. This would obviously require coding all of the AI (even guys, someone may want to date a guy - you never know. Hey, we might even see a female lead in one of these games one day) to be "dateable" - so that they had a place you could pick them up from once they agree to a date (cue the generica™ - "Why do ALL my girls want to be picked up from the mall?". ((OK, so girlfriends sound like they're out for V, but still an interesting proposition))

To be able to have a chat with an NPC, before taking up their mission from their pink marker. That would be cool. In a lot of games, you can approach a character to talk, even of it just leads to you being told to go away or them reminding you to go start the mission. Why not have a few words about your previous mission? "We kicked those triads asses good huh...?" or something, before you lead in to the mission cut scene.

All in all, I'd like to see the pedestrians play an even bigger role in the everyday goings on, with more to see them do. I'd like to see a pedestrian waiting for a friend to pick them up by the roadside, lean into the window and say Hi, then hop in and speed off. I wanna see beat cops approach people on the streets to frisk them and send them on their way. I wanna see kerb-crawling peds pick up hookers as I walk past on the side walk. I wanna see bums stood around trash-can fires in the wastelands, warming their hands and trading insults whilst they drink from a dirty-brown-bag-mini-bar ((Looks like this is now the case!))

I want to see peds getting in the car and driving out to the countryside and having a walk in all of natures virtual-glory. They need to get out in the country. They need to be everywhere.

And its coming.

One day.

--

Original thread: http://www.gtaforums...opic=168033&hl=

Spiders2410
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#2

Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:39 PM

I agree i th-
(Dan housers face erupts from the earth)


LIVING BREATHING CITY LIVING BREATHING CITY LIVING-

meta187
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#3

Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 12:54)

To be able to have a chat with an NPC, before taking up their mission from their pink marker. That would be cool. In a lot of games, you can approach a character to talk, even of it just leads to you being told to go away or them reminding you to go start the mission. Why not have a few words about your previous mission? "We kicked those triads asses good huh...?" or something, before you lead in to the mission cut scene.

All in all, I'd like to see the pedestrians play an even bigger role in the everyday goings on, with more to see them do

I always enjoy your thoughts on these topics, Fuzz and you're right many of the things we've discussed here for years have been touched on and some are yet to happen but I do think this last quote got my wheels spinning on the subject again.

The Regulars

In all past installments, mission givers have always been very well marked on your Compass and map, in IV they took it down a notch to make it feel like sometimes interesting things would happen on the street outside of a formal mission by adding random encounters, indicated by a little blue ped icon on your compass if I recall correctly. Obviously, they are taking steps towards making you feel like you are in a realistic environment where everyone is consequential to an externt, not just the main mission characters.

So in the thought that at some point we'd see a return to being able to give a negative or positive response to anyone on the street or inside an active interior how about assigning some of those regular scripts to bars and businesses?

Say for example, you have a local dive you frequent for a pint or two. Inside amongst the random peds you have a lot of the locals, the regular faces who appear there. The bartender obviously but also the bar flies and burn outs. People you bump into in the rest room or make a crack at in passing about the local sports or weather. In time, as you frequent the bar more, people acknowledge who you are and you hear, "Eh!? There's Fuzzknuckles the ol'd trouble maker, now! How're things?" as you walk in the door.

That's an immediately cool feeling of earned familiarity based on the time you invested interacting with these specific people. And that could apply to so many others. Ted, who you buy food from, the angsty, awkward teenager working at the Burgershot who can't quite work up the nerve to talk to the cute cheerleaders who always come there for shakes after practice. Sarah, who you buy clothes from, the department store clerk who's being constantly sexually harrassed by her perv of a shift manager but hasn't worked up the guts to say anything about it.

The possibilities are endless really. Obviously that all goes to cost and scripting as to avoid a generic feel but lets say you work in around 20 or 30 of those with subtlety amongst a ton of failry generic and general conversations and interactions and we have a nice compromise for both the players and the game developers.

Fuzzknuckles
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#4

Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (meta187 @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:15)

Say for example, you have a local dive you frequent for a pint or two. Inside amongst the random peds you have a lot of the locals, the regular faces who appear there. The bartender obviously but also the bar flies and burn outs. People you bump into in the rest room or make a crack at in passing about the local sports or weather. In time, as you frequent the bar more, people acknowledge who you are and you hear, "Eh!? There's Fuzzknuckles the ol'd trouble maker, now! How're things?" as you walk in the door.

That's an immediately cool feeling of earned familiarity based on the time you invested interacting with these specific people. And that could apply to so many others. Ted, who you buy food from, the angsty, awkward teenager working at the Burgershot who can't quite work up the nerve to talk to the cute cheerleaders who always come there for shakes after practice. Sarah, who you buy clothes from, the department store clerk who's being constantly sexually harrassed by her perv of a shift manager but hasn't worked up the guts to say anything about it.

I knew I could count on your to add something of actual worth, bro.

This is exactly the sort of thing I want - to be recognised within the city - the reputation/fear/influence stats (that currently only exist in my head and this thread) would count towards this. So, as you say, you enter a building where these stats make a difference and the way you're greeted and treated differs. This could even be extended to different boroughs or, on an even smaller scale, neighbourhoods, where you're recognised and interacted with in a different way.

If peds are specific to certain areas, as they always have been before, this could again be extended. The people that are often found on the street your safe house is on would begin to recognise you and greet you. But if you're switching to one of the other characters and in that same area, they might not know who you are yet.

Really, there's just so much I could say on this... but I'd really love to see what others can input.

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#5

Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

Maybe a little chat and more realistic NPC AI

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#6

Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

More interactions, more dialogues and more ped models. I hated how the same peds met each other and walked past each other in the previous GTAs. IV better ..

hot_ur_n
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#7

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

In regards to the last paragraph, I want to follow them to the countryside murder them!

Fuzzknuckles
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#8

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Chekoloco @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:54)
Maybe a little chat and more realistic NPC AI

Interested to hear what you mean here - care to expand and get the chins wagging?

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#9

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

Read all if it and I like your Ideas! Especially the one with the ability to talk.

That said, Bums (Reveal trailer) and A.I having a "life" and waiting on the Bus station to go to work(Gameinformer) are pretty much confirmed for GTA V.

The Scottish Guy
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#10

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:24 PM

Nice thread.

A high quality ped interaction system in V is a must for me. I'm not asking for any book-long exchanges of vocabulary, but I want to see the peds holding a decent conversation with each other, as well as with my character. A simple positive/negative selection control would not be asking too much of the devs, and it would be an effective way to reflect how you want your response to be directed. It worked in SA, and it would work in V.

I liked how in IV whenever you walked past some non-desirables, you'd get some kind of threatening dialogue thrown your way. Little Italy was my favourite place for f*cking around in, simply for this reason. I loved pissing off all the mob-type-guys who were standing about in little groups. Some of the lines - "ya mams bax", "this guy thinks he's some big swinging dick" - were f*cking hilarious!

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.

Little things like this bring back hype for sure.

Fuzzknuckles
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#11

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (The Scottish Guy @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:24)

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.


I'd love to see what could be done with Kinect or Move (next gen versions) in this sort of situation. Perhaps there could be some room for actually speaking to peds - using your own voice.

WHOA. HANG ON. This isn't the future, Fuzz!

Isn't it? Well it should be.

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#12

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (The Scottish Guy @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:24)

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.


I'd love to see what could be done with Kinect or Move (next gen versions) in this sort of situation. Perhaps there could be some room for actually speaking to peds - using your own voice.

WHOA. HANG ON. This isn't the future, Fuzz!

Isn't it? Well it should be.

No thanks, something like that would not contribute to the immersion since charachters have their own voice actor.

Would only make sense in a GTA where you can create your own Individual character.

The Scottish Guy
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#13

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (The Scottish Guy @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:24)

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.


I'd love to see what could be done with Kinect or Move (next gen versions) in this sort of situation. Perhaps there could be some room for actually speaking to peds - using your own voice.

WHOA. HANG ON. This isn't the future, Fuzz!

Isn't it? Well it should be.

Hey, don't rule anything out.

Soon we'll be able to recieve virtual blowjobs from the hookers in GTA!

Fuzzknuckles
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#14

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Versous @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:38)
QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (The Scottish Guy @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:24)

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.


I'd love to see what could be done with Kinect or Move (next gen versions) in this sort of situation. Perhaps there could be some room for actually speaking to peds - using your own voice.

WHOA. HANG ON. This isn't the future, Fuzz!

Isn't it? Well it should be.

No thanks, something like that would not contribute to the immersion since charachters have their own voice actor.

Would only make sense in a GTA where you can create your own Individual character.

So... for multiplayer, then? Have your actions repeated on screen... that would be pretty sweet!

There's also nothing stopping the use of speech synthesis, to take the words you speak and synthesise them into a different voice. So anything you say could be translated and repeated in that characters tone of voice.

It might not sound exactly right, but baby steps will get us there... eventually. Right?

K20
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#15

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE (hot_ur_n @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:02)
In regards to the last paragraph, I want to follow them to the countryside murder them!

Nothing shocking about this, it should be, but i know i'll do the same.

Versous
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#16

Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:58 PM Edited by Versous, 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:43)
QUOTE (Versous @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:38)
QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (The Scottish Guy @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:24)

But I'd love the ability to respond with my own dialogue, which, with R*'s sense of humour, would give me hours upon hours of fun. And considering we've already been told about the 'flicking off' feature to see how peds react, I'd say I'm pretty optimistic those of us in this thread will be served our hunger regarding this level of gaming immersion in V.


I'd love to see what could be done with Kinect or Move (next gen versions) in this sort of situation. Perhaps there could be some room for actually speaking to peds - using your own voice.

WHOA. HANG ON. This isn't the future, Fuzz!

Isn't it? Well it should be.

No thanks, something like that would not contribute to the immersion since charachters have their own voice actor.

Would only make sense in a GTA where you can create your own Individual character.

So... for multiplayer, then? Have your actions repeated on screen... that would be pretty sweet!

There's also nothing stopping the use of speech synthesis, to take the words you speak and synthesise them into a different voice. So anything you say could be translated and repeated in that characters tone of voice.

It might not sound exactly right, but baby steps will get us there... eventually. Right?

It's funny that I thought about the exact same Thing when I wrote my comment but no, that wouldn't work fine.

-. If the char is actually repeating what you say, it wouldn't be
Immersive enough.

-. If the char would speak with his own voice in real time @ the same time, it would only make sense if you wouldn't be able to hear by wearing headphones for example (that would actually be pretty cool)

-. A.I would still not be able to react to your random words. If there were specific sentences
you could chose from and speak them into the mic, it might work and it would be somewhat immersive as long you don't hear your own voice.

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#17

Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Versous @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:58)
It's funny that I thought about the exact same Thing when I wrote my comment but no, that wouldn't work fine.

-. If the char is actually repeating what you say, it wouldn't be
Immersive enough.

-. If the char would speak with his own voice in real time @ the same time, it would only make sense if you wouldn't be able to hear by wearing headphones for example (that would actually be pretty cool)

-. A.I would still not be able to react to your random words. If there were specific sentences
you could chose from and speak them into the mic, it might work and it would be somewhat immersive as long you don't hear your own voice.

Yeah, actually, I see the limitation now. That's good though - that's the whole point of this thread.

Let's move on from this one.

How about the physical interaction only? Some way of actually interacting with the characters on a more physical level, such as shoving, tripping up... would be great for MP, definitely.

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#18

Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

This is somehow what I want after IV. I bet the protagonist needs more a bit of interaction rather than just peds always reacting to your actions like bumping on them, they should somehow argue with the protagonist when actions were taken upon them.

Fuzzknuckles
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#19

Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

QUOTE (ExtremeLimitations @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 17:08)
This is somehow what I want after IV. I bet the protagonist needs more a bit of interaction rather than just peds always reacting to your actions like bumping on them, they should somehow argue with the protagonist when actions were taken upon them.

Absolutely! Reactions to our actions would give so much more immersion than what we had in IV:

I bump a ped. Ped drops phone. Ped either stands still, runs away, or gets them dukes up.

That's not enough. What about a little slap from the ped? Or it picks up the phone again and just ignores you? Or picks up the phone and throws it at you?

Peds should have a library of possible actions, which could be universal to all peds but randomly selected from that library to either give the most appropriate response... or just something that makes absolutely no sense at all. Like it hugs you or something.

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#20

Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 13:54)
If you are chasing someone on foot and lose sight of them, you could ask a ped "Which way did he go?" and they point them out - the person you are chasing re-appears on the mini map.

Even this, the tiniest feature conceivable, would put the proverbial cream on my cake. I'd love to get into a chase and at some point he disappear down an alley just as you turn the corner. Lost and clueless, you scream at the nearest ped and, after noticing the subtle AK by your side, he points with a shaking hand in the general direction. As you said, this bring him back up on the radar. You then have a choice to continue on foot, sprinting after him until you get close enough to take a shot, or punch some grandma off her peddle bike and ride around to the exit of the alley he went down and wait for him behind a car, unleashing a deadly shower of led as he emerges. Overall, this lovely feature, if done well could be that tiny little thing that makes us go "Ohhhh...Ahhhh!".

On the recent subject of reactions to our actions, one thing I'd love to see is a "chill-the-f*ck-out" option. Whenever I walked the streets of Star Junction, I found that it didn't take long to start trouble. You accidentally knock some dudes coffee out of his hand, he raises his fists, you retaliate and knock him out stone cold. The problem here is that it often attracts the attention of the police, which whilst wanting a bit of tranquillity, is not what I want. So it would be good if after we knock this dudes coffee or we accidentally knock someone down whilst running, we have the option the say "Hey, sorry about that, let me pay for another" or "Let me help you up". This way we can avoid the hassle of being arrested and it adds a subtle amount of immersion to things. I understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea and probably think "f*ck that, I'll just keep running!". Well, that's what you would do, my idea is what I'd like to do.

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#21

Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (TheGreatGig23 @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 17:31)
On the recent subject of reactions to our actions, one thing I'd love to see is a "chill-the-f*ck-out" option.

I like this a lot. While getting people all riled up is always a lot of fun, chilling them down would be so useful in so many situations - even in heists.

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#22

Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:12)
QUOTE (ExtremeLimitations @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 17:08)
This is somehow what I want after IV. I bet the protagonist needs more a bit of interaction rather than just peds always reacting to your actions like bumping on them, they should somehow argue with the protagonist when actions were taken upon them.

Absolutely! Reactions to our actions would give so much more immersion than what we had in IV:

I bump a ped. Ped drops phone. Ped either stands still, runs away, or gets them dukes up.

That's not enough. What about a little slap from the ped? Or it picks up the phone again and just ignores you? Or picks up the phone and throws it at you?

Peds should have a library of possible actions, which could be universal to all peds but randomly selected from that library to either give the most appropriate response... or just something that makes absolutely no sense at all. Like it hugs you or something.

Exactly man! If they can record hundreds of voice clips of each ped then they should be able to create about a hundred different actions and reactions to Peds!

Also last month I even made a topic about how dynamic I want the peds to be in V. Like I even mentioned like how on the first Watch Dogs gameplay trailer, they had a scene where the player caused a pretty bad traffic accident at an intersection and the by standing Peds on the street ran to the scene and helped people out of their cars and asked if they where ok. And also one part when a driver in one of the cars got shot by the crossfire, the passenger in the car was crying trying to bring their loved ones back to life. And the thing about it is that this wasn't scripted at all (as so they claim) so its possible to create a more dynamic ped system.


Also who remembers back in GTA III and VC (can't remember SA had it tho) when your car blew up in the middle of the street or some died and their body was in the middle of the sidewalk, everyone around to run to the scene and crowd around. Wtf happened to that??!! He'll they can even take it up a notch and have Peds take pictures of the scene from their camera phones!

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#23

Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:40 AM

to be able to have full conversations with NPCs would be amazing, like every pedestrian has a different thing to say.

and if you annoy them, they attack you.

saintsrow
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    I thought I would only need this meme for a few weeks...or so

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#24

Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:49 AM

QUOTE (Fuzzknuckles @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:04)
QUOTE (Versous @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 16:58)
It's funny that I thought about the exact same Thing when I wrote my comment but no, that wouldn't work fine.

-. If the char is actually repeating what you say, it wouldn't be
Immersive enough.

-. If the char would speak with his own voice in real time @ the same time, it would only make sense if you wouldn't be able to hear by wearing headphones for example (that would actually be pretty cool)

-. A.I would still not be able to react to your random words. If there were specific sentences
you could chose from and speak them into the mic, it might work and it would be somewhat immersive as long you don't hear your own voice.

Yeah, actually, I see the limitation now. That's good though - that's the whole point of this thread.

Let's move on from this one.

How about the physical interaction only? Some way of actually interacting with the characters on a more physical level, such as shoving, tripping up... would be great for MP, definitely.

Let's just do it like this, since we will generally be online all the time - do a kind of hybrid multiplayer thing where players can chose to appear in someone else's single player game, completely randomly, as an NPC / ped.

The person playing in this mode can see where the protag is, in the game he has "invaded." He tracks down the protag on the street and actually talks to him through his microphone, something like, "Hey, bitch, I don't like your face." The protag player answers back through his microphone. From there, the conversation quickly goes downhill, just like many forum threads (not this thread) and degenerates into a flame war and shooting.

This would not put the burden on AI that is not yet ready for good face-to-face street interactions.

One thing that I don't want, by the way, is the contrived, fixed view, fixed script interactions like in Fallout and Skyrim. I hate those - they kill the game continuity and immersion.

Racecarlock
  • Racecarlock

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#25

Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:02 AM

See this? This is the kind of realism I like. This is the kind of realism I want to see more of.

This stuff, in my opinion, would do a hell of a lot more for the game than hunger or fuel or bills ever could. This kind of stuff is what makes me feel immersed and what generally makes a game better. Instead of filling it with virtual chores, which is what some other people seem to be interested in.

superhobo666
  • superhobo666

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#26

Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:23 AM Edited by superhobo666, 15 March 2013 - 07:26 AM.

this is the sort of interaction a GTA game needs. More interaction with the world, the people, the things.

Pick up anything and use as a weapon, talk to anyone (expanding on the icon14.gif / icon13.gif responses, have icon14.gif and icon13.gif greetings (Insult, or polite hello) with random topics, and greetings/insults.

things like:

Hello, I like your shoes!
F**k you.
Yo, sweet car man.
s**tty weather today huh?
man that's an ugly shirt bro.
DO YOU EVEN LIFT FIGHT ME 1V1
shut the f**k up
hey that's pretty cool
yeah, I like x (or) y

little random conversation topics, insults, greetings, and replies would be wonderful. you could even have them relevant to a location, a mission, or a minigame. AND protag specific. so with each protag you can have a lot of random conversations.
I particularly liked an idea on the first page, approaching a civvy and asking if they saw the guy you where chasing.
Walking up to them and asking where x house is.
if they've seen a certain car
if they know where a certain character is.

the beauty is not every civvy will have the answer you want, it's random! but once that civy gives you the answer, they won't give the same one. (preventing cornering a civy and asking where a mission guy is 30 times until they tell you randomly.)

the same goes for conversations.

Also, keeping the random encounter system from IV, but maybe expanding on it, VIA rewards, amount of people, hell even just more events for fun.

see some guy sitting around holding a Frisbee? Walk up and join him for a game of Frisbee.
guess what. you come by and play Frisbee with him again, he'll like you more. maybe he owns a hardware store, you guys get pretty good friends. you go to that hardware store with the particular protag, suddenly 5% off melee weapons there.

you're walking around as Trevor, you see a random guy standing at the entrance to an alley, you watch as pedestrians walk up, they pass hands between each other, ped walks away.
this guy is a dealer. you approach, and offer a business deal. Bam new dealer sells for you, now you get X amount of cash per day just for that.
but not every dealer will agree. some may try to kill you, some may run, some may call their protectors, some might just refuse and walk away.
Hell, some might even f**k off with your product and not pay you. and again, they remember, and will react accordingly to how they did before (if you don't kill them.)
There would be a few scattered around different areas of Los Santos. say, 10 to 15 you can interact with. each location one will have a random AI, so you can't just google which one will buy, and which onw will screw you.



those two would be good examples of expanding on the current random encounter system. I really enjoyed that in IV, it was a good way of seeing another side of Niko, while also getting money and having something interesting to do.

though, I didn't enjoy the margarita events with Luis, Crazy bitch was too much like my crazy ex for comfort. but that's the beauty of a fully open world game, it'll have things you like, and it needs to have things that push your comfort level a bit to balance out. with extremes as well that you can (and sometimes can't) avoid, that's what I want to see when people claim "Realistic living breathing city." but that might be a while away. However, voice synthesizing software is getting pretty promising, Theoretically in a few years you could see small npc roles offset to CG voices, and leave important characters to voice actors to offset cost of hiring. and the software can be modified and used across and project needing small voice tracks.

(edit, fixed some ideas and good god fixed some awful spelling errors.)

meta187
  • meta187

    Challenge Convention, Question Authority.

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#27

Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (Lil ski @ Thursday, Mar 14 2013, 22:50)
Also last month I even made a topic about how dynamic I want the peds to be in V. Like I even mentioned like how on the first Watch Dogs gameplay trailer, they had a scene where the player caused a pretty bad traffic accident at an intersection and the by standing Peds on the street ran to the scene and helped people out of their cars and asked if they where ok. And also one part when a driver in one of the cars got shot by the crossfire, the passenger in the car was crying trying to bring their loved ones back to life . And the thing about it is that this wasn't scripted at all (as so they claim) so its possible to create a more dynamic ped system.


Dynamic Reactions to Violence

Dynamic reactions are tricky and on a somewhat deeper level how they are handled is a delicate and nuanced subject.

GTA has always had a generally fun tone about it and even when you are running amok on an unscripted rampage people's overly exaggerated, cartoonish reactions to you pulling out a gun (no reaction until you point it at someone) and shooting someone else are often mirthful and remind you that you're playing a video game, that these peds are completely disposable and of no real consequence at the end of the day, easily replaced with another clone. You walk into the Malibu Club in VC and drop a molotov cocktail on the middle of the dance floor and with noted detachment, laugh maniacally as everyone burns around you, knowing fully well that when you return they'll be alive and right back where you left them.

How much more more awkward would you feel if when you pointed a gun at a random ped they started genuinely crying and begging for their life, pulling out pictures of their kids or when you ran over or shot some random guy his wife collapsed beside him, wailing for help over the man she just spent the last twenty years of her life with. Not so fun anymore, is it?

I mean, I know as GTA players we like to play the desensitized role to all the Jack Thompson naysayers out there but I honestly have no real desire to play a genuine Columbine style murder simulator that makes me feel like a mentally unhealthy person at the end of the day simply because I want to have a bit of freedom to work out some aggression on random crash test dummies. Not taking a side on the violence in video games debate as 95% of the games I play contain aggresion but simply acknowledging it's a thin line we tread between mindless fun and something more personal, to be sure.

QUOTE

Also who remembers back in GTA III and VC (can't remember SA had it tho) when your car blew up in the middle of the street or some died and their body was in the middle of the sidewalk, everyone around to run to the scene and crowd around. Wtf happened to that??!! He'll they can even take it up a notch and have Peds take pictures of the scene from their camera phones !


We've talked about iFruit applications quite a bit in the $$$ Thread and how being able to take active screen caps on the fly would be very cool. To be able to go on the internet and see some random screen cap of yourself that a ped took while you were going apesh!t would not only be hilarious, it would add some valid points in the immersion department

geobst
  • geobst

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#28

Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

There are so many pedestrians in every game although there's very little interactions to have with them which is really disappointing and has been something I've wanted improved for a while. In San Andreas and IV Rockstar implemented minor ways to interact with pedestrians but it still wasn't enough. Adding the system where you can talk properly and not just shout and scream or fight pedestrians should be implemented and I'll always think so. Rather than just having the odd person such as a vender speak to you there should be a large amount of people who will. Girlfriends should be more unique and more varied. In previous games girlfriends have been added but they got boring after a while because they seemed too repetitive. The same things were being said and it just wasn't fun, it was just something to do to pass time. This should be changed in GTA V.

When driving and when you crash into another car, rather than the pedestrian just exiting the car their should be a proper dispute and argument done rather than everybody being a hard-ass or driving off. Also, instead of the majority of pedestrian drivers backing up and speeding off when you point a gun at them there should be some sort of fear system implemented for them kind of situations which will always happen in a game as free as GTA.

Lil ski
  • Lil ski

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#29

Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

@Meta: yeah I do agree the Peds begging for their lives like that is a little too much and would spark a firestorm to anti-gta crowds. I was just giving an example of how much realistically they could make the peds. Like they don't have to go that far but at least they should have some realistic reaction to the event rather than robotically jumping out the car, standing there for a second and then running off until they bump into a wall tounge.gif .

@prominent fate: yeah I don't think in real life that many people would automatically get out their cars, pull you out the seat and go toe-to-toe with you just over a fender bender or even a bad wreck.......but NYC taxi drivers on the other hand are pretty f*cking aggro in real life so that's one thing IV got right lol lol.gif .

Mister Pink
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#30

Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

Excellent topic.

One thing that fascinated me was pedestrians in San Andreas. That game for me has had the best peds so far. Random conversations between peds seemed more apparent and were hugely entertaining and surreal some times. The fact that Rockstar put so much effort and detail in to this aspect was nice in the grand scale of what San Andreas is.

A reply feature would be fantastic. I also miss how peds reacted to your weight and clothes. In a superficial LA/LS I believe it was fun and appropriate, given how appearance is everything in the land of Hollywood.

Scarface: The World Is Yours had an excellent conversation/ped interaction feature. The conversations were a 'collectible.' I was impressed by how long some of them could go on.

I'd love to see this in GTA V, it makes the world more real. It made it REALLY immersive!







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