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GTA related stories and ideas..

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Money Over Bullshit
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#1

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:11 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 08 March 2013 - 07:05 PM.

Looking around this section I've noticed a few GTA related stories that are quite similar to the concept topics over in the Series Chat section and some text/dialogue only topics in Series Chat which would have traditionally belonged in this section. Up until recently (the past few months) my personal understanding on the matter was that fully fleshed out game ideas with a soundtrack, weapons and vehicles should go in the Series Chat section and text only concepts with chapters and script like dialogue formatting should go here but over time the lines have become increasing blurred resulting in not only a split between the topics but a split between the readership also, since a lot of the people (few as they are) who frequent Series Chat never visit this section and vice versa. In addition to this there are also many other non GTA related stories which no doubt belong in this section but my question is this, wouldn't it be better if all GTA related game ideas and stories were put in the same place and other literary pieces remained here. This could possibly cause this section to become more deserted but it would also define the boundries more clearly and allow people to post stories and have them judged on their relevance to the GTA world etc. rather than their literary merit.

I'd like to get people's thoughts on this before bringing it before the mods for an official decision so please let me know what you all think

Mokrie Dela
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#2

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

Very grey subject.

A lot of the (self-proclaimed) 'proper' writers, would jump at the chance to have GTA fan fictions banished from this section. I disagree.

I think the way it should be is quite simple:

If you have a story, you post it here. If you have a concept, you post it in the series chat. That's it. If your "story" has radio stations and playlists, a map, character profiles and TV shows, it's a concept. A story should give you all the information you need via prose, not notes at the top of the page.

A new section wouldn't be worth it. People will still post their story in the section that gets viewed more. And then the "original" stories here would be even more so ignored. instead a clear-cut segregation is needed. Stories - regardless of the the genre (fan fiction is a genre in my eyes) - go here. Anything that's more, goes elsewhere.

But there is a very unclear line between the two and this topic is quite interesting, though as said, most people in this section despise gta-stories, and label anyone who writes them as poor writers, so they simply overlook them. I'm lucky, I've managed to get one of the most viewed stories on here, and that's a gta story. Would I get more views if i posted it in gta series chat? Possibly, but as it's not a concept of a game, merely a fictional story, it belongs here.

Money Over Bullshit
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#3

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:03 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 08 March 2013 - 07:05 PM.

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Friday, Mar 8 2013, 19:52)
Very grey subject.

A lot of the (self-proclaimed) 'proper' writers, would jump at the chance to have GTA fan fictions banished from this section. I disagree.

I think the way it should be is quite simple:

If you have a story, you post it here. If you have a concept, you post it in the series chat. That's it. If your "story" has radio stations and playlists, a map, character profiles and TV shows, it's a concept. A story should give you all the information you need via prose, not notes at the top of the page.

A new section wouldn't be worth it. People will still post their story in the section that gets viewed more. And then the "original" stories here would be even more so ignored. instead a clear-cut segregation is needed. Stories - regardless of the the genre (fan fiction is a genre in my eyes) - go here. Anything that's more, goes elsewhere.

But there is a very unclear line between the two and this topic is quite interesting, though as said, most people in this section despise gta-stories, and label anyone who writes them as poor writers, so they simply overlook them. I'm lucky, I've managed to get one of the most viewed stories on here, and that's a gta story. Would I get more views if i posted it in gta series chat? Possibly, but as it's not a concept of a game, merely a fictional story, it belongs here.

It's nice to hear the point of view of somebody who is a writer of GTA stories (as opposed to concepts like myself) I would like to see all of the GTA related fan fiction in one section regardless of how fleshed out they are and as you said the "proper writers" would probably like to see that happen too. If the other writers of GTA stories in this section share your sentiments though then I supose its best to leave well enough alone. There still needs to be clear rules though in a sense i.e. should we actually report topics or ask for them to be moved if they don't fall within the realms of a topic that 'should' be in a certain section?

Eminence
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#4

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Friday, Mar 8 2013, 18:52)
A lot of the (self-proclaimed) 'proper' writers, would jump at the chance to have GTA fan fictions banished from this section. I disagree.

But there is a very unclear line between the two and this topic is quite interesting, though as said, most people in this section despise gta-stories, and label anyone who writes them as poor writers, so they simply overlook them.

Dude, this is turning into a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. In the last few weeks alone I've heard you say this over and over and over again, with far more frequency than I've ever seen anyone actually call out fan-fiction in any way whatsoever. Nobody has a 'problem' with fan-fiction. Those who like it write it and read it, those who don't simply mind their own business. Of late you really seem to be hammering this point home left right and centre, always with the anonymous "the proper writers look down on it" shtick; more than that, with increasing frequency you bring up the point in response to other writers' fan-fics, parroting what you may have heard elsewhere and asking them why they chose to write their own fan-fiction, when we all know full-well that you're the biggest believer in the genre that there is. I really don't see where you're coming from anymore.

As to the topic at hand, I'm wholly against the segregation of genres, and I don't feel that a separate forum would be in any way beneficial; nor is it necessary.

I think this whole 'civil war' between fan-fiction and other fiction has been blown way out of proportion.

Mokrie Dela
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#5

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

The reason I ask other writers if they need it as fanfiction is because the best writers in this section avoid fan fiction, and their feedback would be the most invaluable to the newcomers. Yes, I'm a believer in FF, and i have been told i'm not a real writer because of it (i'll admit i'm probably a little sore about that, which might explain my likely annoying going-on about it), but a new guy who comes here and writes a GTA story... I try to offer advice, but I don't know how good such advice is. I'm not the greatest writer, and the advice i'm giving is probably ok, but not brilliant.

I think i try too hard to be impartial and that probably makes things worse. Story of my life - i try too hard at things, and that backfires. I probably just need to chill ?

regarding the reporting, Money over bullsh*t, i think that's the best way. It's rare that anything in this section needs reporting (and rare that anything in the V section DOESNT need reporting), but the best thing is to report one, and say you think it's in the wrong section, and let the mods decide. Perhaps inform the poster too.

I do agree with eminence about the segregation. This section is small and often quite slow, so we're not exactly inundated with new stories. As said, notional game designs go in the series chat. Fictional works go here. I worked with some guy a while ago on a concept. He had the concept thread in the relevant section and i posted the story here, separately.

Money Over Bullshit
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#6

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Friday, Mar 8 2013, 20:48)
The reason I ask other writers if they need it as fanfiction is because the best writers in this section avoid fan fiction, and their feedback would be the most invaluable to the newcomers. Yes, I'm a believer in FF, and i have been told i'm not a real writer because of it (i'll admit i'm probably a little sore about that, which might explain my likely annoying going-on about it), but a new guy who comes here and writes a GTA story... I try to offer advice, but I don't know how good such advice is. I'm not the greatest writer, and the advice i'm giving is probably ok, but not brilliant.

I think i try too hard to be impartial and that probably makes things worse. Story of my life - i try too hard at things, and that backfires. I probably just need to chill ?

regarding the reporting, Money over bullsh*t, i think that's the best way. It's rare that anything in this section needs reporting (and rare that anything in the V section DOESNT need reporting), but the best thing is to report one, and say you think it's in the wrong section, and let the mods decide. Perhaps inform the poster too.

I do agree with eminence about the segregation. This section is small and often quite slow, so we're not exactly inundated with new stories. As said, notional game designs go in the series chat. Fictional works go here. I worked with some guy a while ago on a concept. He had the concept thread in the relevant section and i posted the story here, separately.

That's fair enough but there are several topics here that I think belong in the Series Chat Section and several topics in that section that I think belong here. In fact pretty much every topic I've seen posted in series chat recently should go here. I remember one particular poster posted a topic in the GTA V section and I suggested that it be moved here but both he and the moderator disagreed with me even though from what you're saying it really should have been moved.

At this point I think that all of the good ideas in terms of Radio Stations, Weapons and Vehicles have already been done in earlier concepts so what you're getting is shed loads of repetition or really weak ideas which means that when posters try to add more than just text and/or dialogue the other stuff is just surplus to requirements. So for that reason it's best to just write some fan fiction and write it here. The problem with that is that this is the "Writer's Discussion" section, therefore the praise and critique should be about the quality of the writing and if a person hasn't got good grammer or an adequate level of english but their overall ideas are good then they will likely be given bad feedback based on their writing here as opposed to more general feedback on their ideas in the Series Chat section. Do you see where I'm coming from??

TonyZimmzy
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#7

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:44 PM

I wish I could post my game scripts in the other section. Think a lot of avid GTA gamers would very much enjoy reading them. They're so under-exposed in this section. confused.gif

AceRay
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#8

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

I'm with Tony and MOB on this, his (Tony) stories are excellent but he can't really get enough support and readership from them in this part of the forums. Maybe you could add some radio stations and a map and pretend its a concept story to get more GTA orientated people to read the stories? On the other hand, I'm not really up for the forums to be split so I don't really know where I stand.

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire of this ever forum-splitting debate.

Mokrie Dela
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#9

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

Tony - i've been reading yours, and even the old ones are pretty good. Interesting take but i shouldnt say that here!

I also believe that GTAking (guy who wiped the floor with us in the writing awards) posted his story here and in the V (or series chat) sections. Evidently that is acceptable so why not post in both - if it applies to both? As ace said, add a map, and list a radio station and BAM it's a concept!

Money Over Bullshit
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#10

Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

I think the way it worked before GTA V came out was that concepts went here. Then when the GTA NeXt forum was created people started posting them in there. The way it stands now is that certain people aren't getting the recognition their topics deserve because they're posted in this section of the forums. In saying that though Series Chat doesn't really get that much traffic these days either so I may be over stating the point.. who knows. Is the main reason for not moving the relevent topics that it would take traffic away from this section or is there something else that I'm missing??

Mokrie Dela
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#11

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:31 AM

Possibly, this section is probably the slowest. Plus, stories - which even the gta ones here - belong here. Justice in Flame and City of Lies for example, wouldnt belong in the series chat at all, as they're 100% story, no concept. I think you can see in the way they're written they're not concepts.

I don't think there are ANY stories in here that shouldnt be. nothing needs to be moved AWAY imo

Ziggy455
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#12

Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

QUOTE
guy who wiped the floor with us in the writing awards


Funny Joke.

Seriously this got boring years ago when the older writers brought this up. We 'proper' writers have no issues with fanfictions. If you'd like the truth, I like fanfiction - I love fanfiction if done right. And I know Mokrie gets alot of good feedback for his JIF and CIL work- However, those particular works are still riddled with typos, grammatical errors, and old cliched plot points -every so often. This isn't an insult, it's just to show that fanfiction doesn't seem to help a writer improve.

We all may seem to come off with some sort of snobby, snooty, attitude when we hear Fanfiction but it's only because we've read it all before. There's nothing that can be done with fanfiction that ultimately improves the already -gazillion times copied- stale story.

With Portland Chase, I wanted to go a different way with the story. I wanted to do something surreal and disturbing as opposed to a generic GTA fan-fic. Even then, nobody really read it without groans and sighs.

Fan-fictions don't show us anything new. If you want some respect and you wish to get some writing done, think of a character, think of a world, and think of an issue for that character. Simple; not only will you feel like you've achieved something great due to the story being of just your creation, but you will start to improve your writing properly; something that fan-fictions do not seem to help with.

AceRay
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#13

Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:48 AM

I'm more interested in splitting the awards personally, so we don't get a repeat of what happened when he who must not be named won this year and it didn't go to someone more deserving. It would simply best fit the writer's debate community a lot better and would suit both parties.

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#14

Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:38 AM

Personally I believe Tony's story should be more popular.It is a really fantastic piece. smile.gif

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#15

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:33 PM Edited by orbitalraindrops, 09 March 2013 - 12:40 PM.

If you want to post fan fiction in the V section for example do it. There's nothing wrong with doing something to get more views. I think you can get a lot of help with the process of writing etc down here but it does seem to be pretty dead at times.

I hate this distinction between proper writers and fan fiction writers.
When you say proper writers I think of people who write self indulgent pieces of work that takes itself far too seriously. When you say fan fiction writers I think of overweight 13 year olds writing about CJ pwning Ballas in text speak. It's just writing yo. We don't seperate thriller writers from sci fi.

As for the award I think it's fine as it is. Well written "Orginal" concepts probably won't get the same recognition as Gta Fic due to this being a GTA forum. That's just life.

Money Over Bullshit
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#16

Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:56 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 09 March 2013 - 03:01 PM.

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Saturday, Mar 9 2013, 01:31)
Possibly, this section is probably the slowest. Plus, stories - which even the gta ones here - belong here. Justice in Flame and City of Lies for example, wouldnt belong in the series chat at all, as they're 100% story, no concept. I think you can see in the way they're written they're not concepts.

I don't think there are ANY stories in here that shouldnt be. nothing needs to be moved AWAY imo

Most of them are from before GTA IV came out... I think it's more so the case that a few topics should be moved out of Series Chat. The problem is it's a little too late since one of those topics already won "Best Concept Story" in the annual forum awards (which were an absolute joke this year by the way).

Ziggy455
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#17

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

QUOTE
overweight 13 year olds writing about CJ pwning Ballas in text speak.


Story of my life.


sarcasm.gif




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