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Reaper Madness
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#241

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:05 AM

Well, then again I'm not speaking for the best White interest. I'm speaking for Black best interests. And I'm not ashamed in that since economically we are poor. And there is nothing wrong with saying that Black businesses should be more supported to increase Black people's economic value. Blacks were doing well before the Black Wallstreet bombings and ever since then Blacks were afraid to create their own mecca again. I'm advocating for that again. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The only reason why I think white americans have such a problem with me saying what I am saying, is because Blacks are the biggest consumers. Take that away and it cripples them instead of us. 


theadmiral
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#242

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:10 AM

Well, then again I'm not speaking for the best White interest. I'm speaking for Black best interests. And I'm not ashamed in that since economically we are poor. And there is nothing wrong with saying that Black businesses should be more supported to increase Black people's economic value. Blacks were doing well before the Black Wallstreet bombings and ever since then Blacks were afraid to create their own mecca again. I'm advocating for that again. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The only reason why I think white americans have such a problem with me saying what I am saying, is because Blacks are the biggest consumers. Take that away and it cripples them instead of us. 

I dont think the conversation is really about getting one race ahead of the other , unless I am mistaken. But I do understand that as a black person you have a fundamentally different viewpoint than me on this and I wouldn't argue with you about things I have no knowledge of.

 

I can say that white people choosing to shop only at white businesses or discriminating based on the skin colour of a cashier is disgraceful.

 

I can also say that where I work, many of the top people are African Americans that live in million dollar + houses and are quite well off.

 

If I came from a poverty ridden black community, i'd imagine I would probably feel the same way as you.


Raavi
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#243

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:14 AM Edited by Raavi, 31 October 2013 - 04:18 AM.

 

 

I forgot to quote you before Raavi. I don't really believe we are all equal. At least not here in America. At least, not until Blacks start working on group economics and stop relying on White people. It might seem equal on your end, but not on mine.

 

Group Economics is segregation. It's a principle that strives for an even greater divide between races, it's also a system that's flawed at its very core.

 

If that was true, then how come people do not call Chinatown bad segregation. The Chinese can have Chinatowns all over America, where they buy from each other and take the money back  home from what they sell. However, as soon as I start talking about group econimics for Black people, the counter argument is 'that's segregation'.What is exactly so wrong with Black people buying and supporting each others businesses?

 

 

The original idea of chinatowns was that they would serve as ethnic enclaves for Chinese immigrants to gradually transition into their new country of residence. They wanted to provide an environment that was as close-to-home as possible, so they opened up restaurants and (super)markets offering Chinese products and dishes, later came the bakeries, the retail stores, etc etc. Unlike what you're proposing they're tied to a specific cultural identity, which is also why they work and continue to do so. They offer a slice of (South-East) Asia.

 

Generally speaking black people, though mostly African by ancestry are Americans, and they have been for many generations. Their cultural heritage is intertwined with white American heritage. Whilst Asians are mostly second or third generation immigrants. 


Reaper Madness
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#244

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:17 AM Edited by Reaper Madness, 31 October 2013 - 04:23 AM.

 

Well, then again I'm not speaking for the best White interest. I'm speaking for Black best interests. And I'm not ashamed in that since economically we are poor. And there is nothing wrong with saying that Black businesses should be more supported to increase Black people's economic value. Blacks were doing well before the Black Wallstreet bombings and ever since then Blacks were afraid to create their own mecca again. I'm advocating for that again. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The only reason why I think white americans have such a problem with me saying what I am saying, is because Blacks are the biggest consumers. Take that away and it cripples them instead of us. 

I dont think the conversation is really about getting one race ahead of the other , unless I am mistaken. But I do understand that as a black person you have a fundamentally different viewpoint than me on this and I wouldn't argue with you about things I have no knowledge of.

 

I can say that white people choosing to shop only at white businesses or discriminating based on the skin colour of a cashier is disgraceful.

 

I can also say that where I work, many of the top people are African Americans that live in million dollar + houses and are quite well off.

 

If I came from a poverty ridden black community, i'd imagine I would probably feel the same way as you.

 

No, I actually came from a good background. My father owns two businesses in Jamaica and even there the Chinese and Whites are trying to buy him out. I just want Black people to stop being reliant on White people. 

 

@Raavi Ok, that's the origin of the Chinatowns, but that doesn't contradict what I said. They still buy from each other and send money back home to China. Mexicans, Italians, most immigrants do this. How does that exactly differ from what I'm advocating for African-Americans? In fact at least we would take the money out of the country like most immigrants since we're born here.


theadmiral
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#245

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:25 AM

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?


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#246

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:33 AM Edited by Raavi, 31 October 2013 - 04:37 AM.

 

 

Well, then again I'm not speaking for the best White interest. I'm speaking for Black best interests. And I'm not ashamed in that since economically we are poor. And there is nothing wrong with saying that Black businesses should be more supported to increase Black people's economic value. Blacks were doing well before the Black Wallstreet bombings and ever since then Blacks were afraid to create their own mecca again. I'm advocating for that again. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The only reason why I think white americans have such a problem with me saying what I am saying, is because Blacks are the biggest consumers. Take that away and it cripples them instead of us. 

I dont think the conversation is really about getting one race ahead of the other , unless I am mistaken. But I do understand that as a black person you have a fundamentally different viewpoint than me on this and I wouldn't argue with you about things I have no knowledge of.

 

I can say that white people choosing to shop only at white businesses or discriminating based on the skin colour of a cashier is disgraceful.

 

I can also say that where I work, many of the top people are African Americans that live in million dollar + houses and are quite well off.

 

If I came from a poverty ridden black community, i'd imagine I would probably feel the same way as you.

 

No, I actually came from a good background. My father owns two businesses in Jamaica and even there the Chinese and Whites are trying to buy him out. I just want Black people to stop being reliant on White people. 

 

@Raavi Ok, that's the origin of the Chinatowns, but that doesn't contradict what I said. They still buy from each other and send money back home to China. Mexicans, Italians, most immigrants do this. 

 

 

That's the thing though, they're tied to a specific country, not a specific race. On top of that they have the advantage of having a developed internationally recognised cuisine. There would be no little Italy without Pizza and Pasta. If you can come up with a Jamaican version of little italy, by all means do so. But do not focus on specific a race, rather focus on a country, your country, your heritage - then you have something to sell. Why do you think we don't say 'white food' or 'yellow food' it's because there is non of that. There is no racially-linked food, there only is food linked to a certain country/geographical area.


theadmiral
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#247

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:36 AM

^ There actually is kind of a Jamaican version of little italy here , but it is more West Indians in general than Jamaicans in specific. Not relevant or arguing, just mentioning.


Reaper Madness
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#248

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:37 AM Edited by Reaper Madness, 31 October 2013 - 04:43 AM.

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?

When I'm talking about not relying on Whites I mean, not relying on the government and not relying on White businesses. I never said anything about not selling to Whites. With Blacks being the biggest consumers, it would be more beneficial if they use that money on Black businesses and create more producers. What's so wrong with that? 

 

@Raavi My father is Jamaican, but I am an American, so I don't see a point in my advocating for a 'little Jamaica' when the pot is sweeter if all Blacks would come together for more economic benefit. 

Again, they still sell and buy from each other. No matter how you slice it it still comes down to them doing the exact same thing I'm advocating. 


theadmiral
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#249

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:41 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 04:45 AM.

 

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?

When I'm talking about not relying on Whites I mean, not relying on the government and not relying on White businesses. I never said anything about not selling to Whites. With Blacks being the biggest consumers, it would be more beneficial if they use that money on Black businesses and create more producers. What's so wrong with that? 

 

Nothing is wrong with it, per se, it just seems a bit odd to live in a multicultural country have that outlook.

 

For example, if you take a look at Jamaica, it is predominantely black , black people relying on a black government and black businesses, and the entire place is a shambles and full of corruption, crime, and poverty, no offense intended. The tourism from international visitors, and money sent from Jamaicans abroad, are two of the few things that inject money into that country.

 

Only the 1 percent are getting ahead in Jamaica and many of them have to move abroad to earn a living, in a "white" country.

 

Many Jamaicans I know (I play on a cricket team full of them) say they would never return to Jamaica.


Reaper Madness
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#250

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:47 AM

 

 

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?

When I'm talking about not relying on Whites I mean, not relying on the government and not relying on White businesses. I never said anything about not selling to Whites. With Blacks being the biggest consumers, it would be more beneficial if they use that money on Black businesses and create more producers. What's so wrong with that? 

 

Nothing is wrong with it, per se, it just seems a bit odd to live in a multicultural country have that outlook.

 

For example, if you take a look at Jamaica, it is predominantely black , black people relying on a black government and black businesses, and the entire place is a shambles and full of corruption, crime, and poverty, no offense intended. The tourism from international visitors, and money sent from Jamaicans abroad, are two of the few things that inject money into that country.

 

Only the 1 percent are getting ahead in Jamaica and many of them have to move abroad to earn a living, in a "white" country.

 

That's laughable. The businesses in Jamaica are not run by Jamaicans. They are run by Chinese, Indians, British, etc. Just go ask any Jamaican who lived there long enough. Why do you think they are trying to buy out my father's business? This is how a group falls. Take their economic power and it crumbles. 


theadmiral
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#251

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:56 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 05:00 AM.

 

 

 

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?

When I'm talking about not relying on Whites I mean, not relying on the government and not relying on White businesses. I never said anything about not selling to Whites. With Blacks being the biggest consumers, it would be more beneficial if they use that money on Black businesses and create more producers. What's so wrong with that? 

 

Nothing is wrong with it, per se, it just seems a bit odd to live in a multicultural country have that outlook.

 

For example, if you take a look at Jamaica, it is predominantely black , black people relying on a black government and black businesses, and the entire place is a shambles and full of corruption, crime, and poverty, no offense intended. The tourism from international visitors, and money sent from Jamaicans abroad, are two of the few things that inject money into that country.

 

Only the 1 percent are getting ahead in Jamaica and many of them have to move abroad to earn a living, in a "white" country.

 

That's laughable. The businesses in Jamaica are not run by Jamaicans. They are run by Chinese, Indians, British, etc. Just go ask any Jamaican who lived there long enough. Why do you think they are trying to buy out my father's business? This is how a group falls. Take their economic power and it crumbles. 

 

Jamaica is 91 percent black , 6.2 percent mixed, and the rest are white or asian. That is less than 3 percent.

 

The Jamaican government is black.

 

Take a look at T&T where the demographics are a bit more mixed, the country is far more prosperous even though it also has problems.


Raavi
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#252

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:03 AM Edited by Raavi, 31 October 2013 - 05:06 AM.

@Raavi My father is Jamaican, but I am an American, so I don't see a point in my advocating for a 'little Jamaica' when the pot is sweeter if all Blacks would come together for more economic benefit. 

Again, they still sell and buy from each other. No matter how you slice it it still comes down to them doing the exact same thing I'm advocating. 

 

 

And it only works because they're from a certain country and offer a slice of their country and culture. They don't do it to support their race, hell they don't even support their country, they support their families. And that's about it. Nearly all establishments in little Italy, Chinatown, Koreatown - you name it, are family owned. 

 

You seem to have the notion that black people can only thrive if the race has its own micro economy. Which is not the case.

 

@Theadmiral Trinidad and Tobago has a leg up because the country has an industrial economy with an emphasis on petroleum.


Reaper Madness
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#253

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:07 AM

 

 

 

 

We all rely on each other, the more customers anyone has of any race, the better off we all are. I shop at a Jamaican store all the time because they are the best butchers and know how to cut your meat right, they can give you oxtail, goat, properly cut chicken, you name it and i'm proud to go in there and give them my money, and i'm sure they do not at all mind taking money from me even though I am white. And I know for a fact that they send money back to Jamaica.

 

Would it really fix or help anything if we reached a situation where we all only shopped at business of people of our own race?

 

I'm fairly sure that even if what you described as accomplished (Blacks not relying on whites) any sensible black businessman would still be happy to take our money and the vice versa would also be true (whites taking money from black customers).

 

We all like money, right?

When I'm talking about not relying on Whites I mean, not relying on the government and not relying on White businesses. I never said anything about not selling to Whites. With Blacks being the biggest consumers, it would be more beneficial if they use that money on Black businesses and create more producers. What's so wrong with that? 

 

Nothing is wrong with it, per se, it just seems a bit odd to live in a multicultural country have that outlook.

 

For example, if you take a look at Jamaica, it is predominantely black , black people relying on a black government and black businesses, and the entire place is a shambles and full of corruption, crime, and poverty, no offense intended. The tourism from international visitors, and money sent from Jamaicans abroad, are two of the few things that inject money into that country.

 

Only the 1 percent are getting ahead in Jamaica and many of them have to move abroad to earn a living, in a "white" country.

 

That's laughable. The businesses in Jamaica are not run by Jamaicans. They are run by Chinese, Indians, British, etc. Just go ask any Jamaican who lived there long enough. Why do you think they are trying to buy out my father's business? This is how a group falls. Take their economic power and it crumbles. 

 

Jamaica is 91 percent black , 6.2 percent mixed, and the rest are white or asian. That is less than 3 percent.

 

The Jamaican government is black.

 

Yes, Jamaica's governemnt is Black. What does that have to do with economics? And that still does not dismiss the fact that most businesses are owned by other people other than Jamaicans. 

Also, why are we arguing about Jamaica when my argument is based on African-Americans in America and their role in better group economics in a FIRST WORLD country. 


theadmiral
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#254

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:10 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 05:10 AM.

 

@Raavi My father is Jamaican, but I am an American, so I don't see a point in my advocating for a 'little Jamaica' when the pot is sweeter if all Blacks would come together for more economic benefit. 

Again, they still sell and buy from each other. No matter how you slice it it still comes down to them doing the exact same thing I'm advocating. 

 

 

And it only works because they're from a certain country and offer a slice of their country and culture. They don't do it to support their race, hell they don't even support their country, they support their families. And that's about it. Nearly all establishments in little Italy, Chinatown, Koreatown - you name it, are family owned. 

 

You seem to have the notion that black people can only thrive if the race has its own micro economy. Which is not the case.

 

@Theadmiral Trinidad and Tobago has a leg up because the country has an industrial economy with an emphasis on petroleum.

 

@Raavi, I don't think it really matters, even though you are right. The point i'm trying to make is that having all black people (or any race) relying on other black people is not going to help anything and greed , corruption, and poverty is still going to occur.

 

The "Haves and have nots" is not a issue that only occurs by white people oppressing black people. This happens everywhere regardless of racial demographics .

 

This notion that a race sticking together will improve anything is ludicrous.

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Reaper Madness
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#255

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:13 AM Edited by Reaper Madness, 31 October 2013 - 05:15 AM.

 

@Raavi My father is Jamaican, but I am an American, so I don't see a point in my advocating for a 'little Jamaica' when the pot is sweeter if all Blacks would come together for more economic benefit. 

Again, they still sell and buy from each other. No matter how you slice it it still comes down to them doing the exact same thing I'm advocating. 

 

 

And it only works because they're from a certain country and offer a slice of their country and culture. They don't do it to support their race, hell they don't even support their country, they support their families. And that's about it. Nearly all establishments in little Italy, Chinatown, Koreatown - you name it, are family owned. 

 

You seem to have the notion that black people can only thrive if the race has its own micro economy. Which is not the case.

 

@Theadmiral Trinidad and Tobago has a leg up because the country has an industrial economy with an emphasis on petroleum.

 

You really believe they don't do it for their culture? When I go to Jewish doctor sick but I also tell him I have a toothache, he will send me to a Jewish dentist. If I tell that Jewish dentist that I got the toothache from an assualt, he will send me to a Jewish Lawyer. I have heard this plenty of times. It's just not being argued and shown like how I am presenting it. If you really have no idea that different cultures (except for Blacks) look out for one another when it comes to money in America then you are terribly mistaken. It's not out in the open like how I'm explaining it, but it's there.


theadmiral
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#256

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:15 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 05:16 AM.

 

 

@Raavi My father is Jamaican, but I am an American, so I don't see a point in my advocating for a 'little Jamaica' when the pot is sweeter if all Blacks would come together for more economic benefit. 

Again, they still sell and buy from each other. No matter how you slice it it still comes down to them doing the exact same thing I'm advocating. 

 

 

And it only works because they're from a certain country and offer a slice of their country and culture. They don't do it to support their race, hell they don't even support their country, they support their families. And that's about it. Nearly all establishments in little Italy, Chinatown, Koreatown - you name it, are family owned. 

 

You seem to have the notion that black people can only thrive if the race has its own micro economy. Which is not the case.

 

@Theadmiral Trinidad and Tobago has a leg up because the country has an industrial economy with an emphasis on petroleum.

 

You really believe they don't do it for their culture? When I go to Jewish doctor sick but I also tell him I have a toothache, he will send me to a Jewish dentist. If I tell that Jewish dentist that I got the toothache from an assualt, he will send me to a Jewish Lawyer. I have heard this plenty of times. It's just not being argued and shown like how I am presenting it. If you really have no idea that different cultures (except for Blacks) look out for one another when it comes to money in America then you are terribly mistaken. 

 

The Jewish people come from all races. I know black Ethiopian jews, I know arab jews, and I know white jews.

 

Also, I had a tooth problem and my Jewish dentist sent me to a non jewish endodontist.


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#257

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:20 AM

By the way, my question is. Why do you really care if Blacks start supporting Black businesses? How does that terribly affect you? Maybe because Whites don't actually want Blacks to be self-reliant and have any economic strength. I have heard it plenty of times that it's because 'that's segregation; and someone actually warned me about this crap argument. And how Whites will continue to use this line, no offence. And it's annoying. You guys don't give a damn about being equal. Because if you do, you would realize that Blacks are already segregated. Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?


theadmiral
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#258

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:21 AM

By the way, my question is. Why do you really care if Blacks start supporting Black businesses? How does that terribly affect you? Maybe because Whites don't actually want Blacks to be self-reliant and have any economic strength. I have heard it plenty of times that it's because 'that's segregation; and someone actually warned me about this crap argument. And how Whites will continue to use this line, no offence. And it's annoying. You guys don't give a damn about being equal. Because if you do, you would realize that Blacks are already segregated. Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

I live in the middle class suburbs and on two sides out of 4 my neighbors are black. One is from Barbados, one is American.


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#259

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:27 AM Edited by Reaper Madness, 31 October 2013 - 05:34 AM.

 

By the way, my question is. Why do you really care if Blacks start supporting Black businesses? How does that terribly affect you? Maybe because Whites don't actually want Blacks to be self-reliant and have any economic strength. I have heard it plenty of times that it's because 'that's segregation; and someone actually warned me about this crap argument. And how Whites will continue to use this line, no offence. And it's annoying. You guys don't give a damn about being equal. Because if you do, you would realize that Blacks are already segregated. Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

I live in the middle class suburbs and on two sides out of 4 my neighbors are black. One is from Barbados, one is American.

 

I'm glad all four of your Black neighbors live in a heavily populated White neighborhood. When a Black person moves to a White neighborhood they see it as a come-up. When a white person moves to Black neighborhood, they see it as a step down. and we aren't already living in inequality and segregation? 

 

It's getting late over here. It was actually nice debating without it getting too hostile. I'll just come to the conclusion that we differ in our opinions because our goals are different. Mine is in the best interest for Black people.

What ticks me off though is when Black people promote Italian businesses like Gucci, and everyone is fine with that, but as soon as Blacks start talking about producing and supporting Black businesses everyone has a problem now. And that's a problem. Blacks have become just consumers and everyone has just gotten used to it. That has to change. 


theadmiral
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#260

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:28 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 05:36 AM.

 

 

By the way, my question is. Why do you really care if Blacks start supporting Black businesses? How does that terribly affect you? Maybe because Whites don't actually want Blacks to be self-reliant and have any economic strength. I have heard it plenty of times that it's because 'that's segregation; and someone actually warned me about this crap argument. And how Whites will continue to use this line, no offence. And it's annoying. You guys don't give a damn about being equal. Because if you do, you would realize that Blacks are already segregated. Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

I live in the middle class suburbs and on two sides out of 4 my neighbors are black. One is from Barbados, one is American.

 

I'm glad all four of your Black neighbors live in a heavily populated White neighborhood. When a Black person moves to a White neighborhood they see it as a come-up. When a white person moves to Black neighborhood, they see it as a step down. and we aren't already living in inequality and segregation? 

 

I'm sorry man, but at this point you just sound like you are filled with hate and bigotry. And my middle class neighborhood is not at all a white neighborhood, it is mostly Indian people, to be honest.

 

You sound like , no offense, you are grasping for reasons to feel offended and oppressed, even to the point of acting condescending to a black person who lives in a middle class neighborhood, which is what you claim to advocate (black people coming up)


Raavi
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#261

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:30 AM Edited by Raavi, 31 October 2013 - 05:34 AM.

Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

 

The problem is you define people by race and not the content of their character, you see white and don't look any further. Equality, real equality is the way forward. Also black people don't just live in the ghetto, there are plenty of middle class and upper class black people. The fact that the majority of people from the ghetto, anyone that lives in any ghetto for that matter don't transcend is largely attributable to gang culture and abysmal quality public education in those school districts.


Reaper Madness
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#262

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:36 AM

 

Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

 

The problem is you define people by race and not the content of their character, you see white and don't look any further. Equality, real equality is the way forward. Also black people don't just live in the ghetto, there are plenty of middle class and upper class black people. The fact that the majority of people from the ghetto, anyone that lives in any ghetto for that matter don't transcend is largely attributable to gang culture and abysmal quality public education in those school districts.

 

And that last part is another topic related to the dependency of the government because Blacks are too reliant on Whites. It goes in circles. You Whites just can't see it. I'll leave it with your thoughts. 


theadmiral
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#263

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:37 AM Edited by theadmiral, 31 October 2013 - 05:41 AM.

 

 

Whites live in the suburbs while Blacks live in the ghetto and now you think it's unfair when I start talking about group economics? What kind of horsesh*t is that? All of a sudden it's not fair?

 

The problem is you define people by race and not the content of their character, you see white and don't look any further. Equality, real equality is the way forward. Also black people don't just live in the ghetto, there are plenty of middle class and upper class black people. The fact that the majority of people from the ghetto, anyone that lives in any ghetto for that matter don't transcend is largely attributable to gang culture and abysmal quality public education in those school districts.

 

And that last part is another topic related to the dependency of the government because Blacks are too reliant on Whites. It goes in circles. You Whites just can't see it. I'll leave it with your thoughts. 

 

Did Raavi ever say what race he is? I'm white, yes, but I don't think it has anything to do with the argument. You are again trying to create racial division and lines where there are none.

 

Also, again, Jamaica has a black government and is full of black ghettos.

 

I've got to run for now, but this has been enlightening.


Melchior
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#264

Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:41 PM Edited by Melchior, 31 October 2013 - 01:50 PM.

 

When we're placing various races on a position of exception and basically giving them a special status we're only breeding more intolerance.  As we're essentially discriminating against the majority and applying double standards. Black, white, yellow, you name it - everyone is equal and needs to be treated and perceived as such. Anything less, again breeds intolerance and racism on both sides of the spectrum.

There's nothing to be gained from pretending to live in a raceless society when we clearly don't. Do you think we should make no effort to make things easier for minorities purely out of principle? And they should what, be grateful that we're taking a hardline stance against discrimination?

 

 

 

Discrimination is discrimination, it doesn't matter if it's minority against majority or vice versa. It's equally bad and uncivilised.

 It isn't equally bad. It has none of the socio-economic ramifications.

 

Why are the mistakes of other people who I have no connection to other than skin colour being burdened on me?

Because you are apart of a society that is trying to end the injustices within it? You are expected to take some kind of role in the process, even if just by not being a dick.

 

 

 

 Isn't telling someone they can't do something just because of their race, racist?

You live in a racialised society. Which means you get treated according to your race. Ideally, of course you shouldn't, but pretending it isn't true helps no one.


Melchior
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#265

Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:58 PM

I personally see the bigger picture of mechanisms of systemic oppression and social injustice based on "race" categories as large-scale manifestations of common racism (based on the common definition).

It's more a system of privilege and lack thereof than an collective expression of individual's belief. It's a system. I agree with you that is starts with racist attitudes, but the ways in which it persists are much more nuanced.

 

As for the apartheid comparison, it's different here and now. It isn't just that whites have more power, it's that we have white-centric culture that struggles to include minorities and represent them proportionally and realistically. The fact that whites are the majority is probably the biggest component of modern racism. 

 

 

I certainly won't be surprised if most instances of insensitivity lead to discrimination and superiority.

But do you think it warrants not giving individuals the benefit of the doubt?

Well, insensitive acts may not be racially motivated at all. The problem is people refusing to take a role- however small- in progress. It's not that anyone who wears black face is secretly racist, it's that African-Americans (and others who feel solidarity) would rather you didn't do it, and by doing so anyway, you're essentially telling them to go f*ck themselves.

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Raavi
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#266

Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:38 PM Edited by Raavi, 31 October 2013 - 02:52 PM.

 

 

When we're placing various races on a position of exception and basically giving them a special status we're only breeding more intolerance.  As we're essentially discriminating against the majority and applying double standards. Black, white, yellow, you name it - everyone is equal and needs to be treated and perceived as such. Anything less, again breeds intolerance and racism on both sides of the spectrum.

There's nothing to be gained from pretending to live in a raceless society when we clearly don't. Do you think we should make no effort to make things easier for minorities purely out of principle? And they should what, be grateful that we're taking a hardline stance against discrimination?

 

 

There are only minorities because we brand a certain group people as such. Race was irrelevant for much of history. Take the Romans, whilst they had a brutal system of slavery - race was pretty much irrelevant. Their slaves as well as their population of free citizens was comprised of individuals of various skin colours and geographical origins. They had no ideology of racial inferiority. In fact, an important feature of the Roman occupation was that it provided equal opportunities for Native Africans to become as wealthy and influential as their Roman colonist counterparts, which many of them did. Some even rose to power.

 

A racial divide is nothing more than a misguided social construct stemming from our recent history. It was devised as a way to subject those that were branded as undesirable or of lower status. It was and still is the zenith of backwards logic. Genetically the only biological differences between the races are attributable to evolution and can be traced back to our geographic DNA profiles. Despite this objective truth, we're still somehow stuck in an everlasting tribal war.


Danz.
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#267

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:04 PM Edited by Danz., 31 October 2013 - 03:07 PM.

I'm racist. Well, at least I am not hypocritical enough to say otherwise, like most people do.

 

But I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as I keep these thoughts inside of my head and avoid practising any anti-racial act toward anyone.


Otter
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#268

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

Again, Raavi, I believe you're simply ignorant to the truth...

http://en.wikipedia....l_race_concepts

Unless we're somehow able to hit a giant "reset" button that suddenly equalized everyone at square one, we'll be living with the ghosts of our racist pasts for decades to come. Institutionalized discrimination is far more insidious than you seem to accept.

There's nothing wrong with being an idealist, but you can't found it on ignorance.

ColePhelps27
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#269

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

I'm racist. Well, at least I am not hypocritical enough to say otherwise, like most people do.

 

But I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as I keep these thoughts inside of my head and avoid practising any anti-racial act toward anyone.

Racist towards who?


Melchior
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#270

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:48 PM

 

 

 

When we're placing various races on a position of exception and basically giving them a special status we're only breeding more intolerance.  As we're essentially discriminating against the majority and applying double standards. Black, white, yellow, you name it - everyone is equal and needs to be treated and perceived as such. Anything less, again breeds intolerance and racism on both sides of the spectrum.

There's nothing to be gained from pretending to live in a raceless society when we clearly don't. Do you think we should make no effort to make things easier for minorities purely out of principle? And they should what, be grateful that we're taking a hardline stance against discrimination?

 

 

There are only minorities because we brand a certain group people as such. Race was irrelevant for much of history. Take the Romans, whilst they had a brutal system of slavery - race was pretty much irrelevant. Their slaves as well as their population of free citizens was comprised of individuals of various skin colours and geographical origins. They had no ideology of racial inferiority. In fact, an important feature of the Roman occupation was that it provided equal opportunities for Native Africans to become as wealthy and influential as their Roman colonist counterparts, which many of them did. Some even rose to power.

 

A racial divide is nothing more than a misguided social construct stemming from our recent history. It was devised as a way to subject those that were branded as undesirable or of lower status. It was and still is the zenith of backwards logic. Genetically the only biological differences between the races are attributable to evolution and can be traced back to our geographic DNA profiles. Despite this objective truth, we're still somehow stuck in an everlasting tribal war.

 

Yes, I'm well aware that race is a social construct. We live in a racialised society regardless.





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