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Hugo Chavez Dies at 58

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (CNN)
Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's vocal leader

Caracas, Venezuela (CNN) -- Hugo Chavez, the polarizing president of Venezuela who cast himself as a "21st century socialist" and foe of the United States, died Tuesday, said Vice President Nicolas Maduro.

Chavez, who had long battled cancer, was 58.

Chavez's democratic ascent to the presidency in 1999 ushered in a new era in Venezuelan politics and its international relations.

Once a foiled coup-plotter, the swashbuckling former paratrooper was known for lengthy speeches on everything from the evils of capitalism to the proper way to conserve water while showering. He was the first of a wave of leftist presidents to come to power in Latin America in the last dozen years.

Chavez leaves a revolutionary legacy

As the most vocal U.S. adversary in the region, he influenced other leaders to take a similar stance.

But the last months of Chavez' life were marked by an uncharacteristic silence as his health condition became "complicated," in the words of his government. Chavez underwent a fourth surgery on December 11 in Cuba, and was not publicly seen again. A handful of pictures released in February were the last images the public had of their president.

Chavez's ministers stubbornly maintained a hopeful message throughout the final weeks, even while admitting that the recently re-elected president was weakened while battling a respiratory infection.

Chavez launched an ambitious plan to remake Venezuela, a major oil producer, into a socialist state in the so-called Bolivarian Revolution, which took its name from Chavez's idol, Simon Bolivar, who won independence for many South American countries in the early 1800s.

"After many readings, debates, discussions, travels around the world, etcetera, I am convinced -- and I believe this conviction will be for the rest of my life -- that the path to a new, better and possible world is not capitalism. The path is socialism," he said on his weekly television program in 2005.

Chavez redirected much of the country's vast oil wealth, which increased dramatically during his tenure, to massive social programs for the country's poor. He expanded the portfolio of the state-owned oil monopoly to include funding for social "missions" worth millions of dollars. That helped pay for programs that seek to eradicate illiteracy, provide affordable food staples and grant access to higher education, among other things.

But Chavez also leaves a legacy of repression against politicians and private media who opposed him.

He concentrated power in the executive branch, turning formerly independent institutions -- such as the judiciary, the electoral authorities and the military -- into partisan loyalists.

iReport: Send your thoughts on the death of the Venezuelan president.

Through decrees and a judiciary tilted in the president's favor, many political opponents found themselves barred from running in elections against the ruling party. Even former allies, like Chavez's onetime defense minister, Gen. Raul Baduel, faced accusations that critics called trumped-up corruption charges.

Chavez's government similarly targeted opposition broadcasters, passing laws and decrees that forced at least one major broadcaster and dozens of smaller radio and television stations off the air.

Opponents also have criticized his social programs, calling them unsustainable over the long run and responsible for unintended consequences. Price controls, for instance, drove up inflation, while expropriations of farmland depressed production.

In lengthy, freewheeling speeches, Chavez saved his most acerbic barbs for the "imperialist" United States and its "colonial" allies in the region.

He accused the United States of trying to orchestrate his overthrow, and referred to President George W. Bush as the devil in front of the United Nations General Assembly.

At home, business interests accused him of scaring off investment by abusing the power of expropriation. Venezuela struggled to grow its economy during this period, even as the nation was flush with money from oil, which was at about $17 a barrel when Chavez took office and rose to more than $100 a barrel.

In addition to domestic social programs, the Chavez government pumped money into his foreign policy interests. He invested millions of dollars in oil and cash in countries that were ideologically similar.

Chavez considered former Cuban leader Fidel Castro a mentor, and aligned his country with Iran and other nations opposed to the United States.

Cuba loses a benefactor in Chavez, whose provision of an oil lifeline at below-market prices could be at risk under a new government.

While Chavez admired Castro, he found most inspiration from Bolivar, even renaming the country the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

An affable, if sometimes bombastic, man, Chavez had a disarming manner that even his critics could not deny.

Some called his style buffoonish, but he spoke like an ordinary Venezuelan -- not like a bureaucrat -- and voters reacted positively.

Other leftist leaders elected after him, like Bolivia's Evo Morales, Ecuador's Rafael Correa and Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega, followed Chavez's example to varying extents.

Chavez could also be secretive. He was slow to publicly admit that he had cancer, and never shared what type of cancer affected him. The government kept a tight seal on details of the president's treatment and declining health.

The death of the Venezuelan president leaves a sharply polarized country, with no clear successor for his party and an untested opposition. Chavez' passing means new elections will be held, although he had said previously he wanted Maduro to succeed him.

Chavez was born in the plains state of Barinas, in southwest Venezuela, on July 28, 1954, the third of the seven children of two educators.

As a child, he was an altar boy who went on to develop a great love of baseball. Recently, even as questions arose about his health, the media-savvy Chavez sought to reassure the public by playing catch with his foreign minister on state television.

As a young man, he enrolled in the Military Academy of Venezuela, reaching the rank of sub-lieutenant in 1975. He joined the parachute corps of the army and rose through the ranks to become a lieutenant colonel.

His first political steps came when he founded the Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement, or MBR-200, in 1982. A decade later, on February 4, 1992, he led a failed military rebellion against then-President Carlos Andres Perez. He also made his first public appearance in front of the television cameras.

"Compatriots, sadly for now the objectives that we proposed were not achieved in the capital city," he said. "That is to say, we here in Caracas did not succeed in gaining power. You did it very well out there, but now is time to avoid more bloodshed. Now is time to reflect and new situations will come."

Chavez served two years in prison before then-President Rafael Caldera granted him amnesty.

Chavez went on to form a new political party, the Fifth Republic Movement, which carried him to a presidential election victory in 1998. His fiery campaign speeches blamed the traditional parties for corruption and poverty.

Chavez married twice and divorced twice. He had three children with his first wife, Nancy Colmenarez: Rosa Virginia, Maria Gabriela and Hugo Rafael.

Years later, he married Marisabel Rodriguez, with whom he had a fourth daughter, Rosa Ines. He divorced in 2003; Venezuela has had no first lady since then.

Upon taking office, Chavez made rewriting the constitution one of his first orders of business. A July 2000 referendum affirmed the new constitution, which the government printed as a little blue book that Chavez used regularly as a prop during speeches.

In the following years, the charismatic Chavez rattled off a string of electoral victories that made him seem almost invincible.

He won re-election in 2000, survived a recall election in 2004, and won another six-year term in 2006.

Chavez secured another re-election victory in October, describing his win as "a perfect battle, and totally democratic." He vowed to "be a better president every day."

A turning point for Chavez came in April 2002, when a coup briefly removed him from office.

But the interim government couldn't consolidate power, and within 48 hours, with the help of the military, Chavez returned to power.

While short-lived, the coup had a profound effect on Chavez, who took a more accelerated authoritarian and leftist turn afterward.

Human Rights Watch wrote in 2010 that the coup provided a pretext for policies that undercut human rights.

"Discrimination on political grounds has been a defining feature of the Chavez presidency," the report concluded.

"At times, the president himself has openly endorsed acts of discrimination. More generally, he has encouraged his subordinates to engage in discrimination by routinely denouncing his critics as anti-democratic conspirators and coup-mongers -- regardless of whether or not they had any connection to the 2002 coup," the report said.

Consolidation of power in the presidency -- to the detriment of separation of powers -- became a theme in Chavez's policies.

Another challenge to Chavez's rule followed the coup. From December 2002 to February 2003, a crippling general strike pressured the president. The economy took a hit, but Chavez outlasted the strikers.

The following year, in 2004, the opposition gathered enough signatures to hold a recall referendum on Chavez, but again, the president survived.

Chavez's vitriol toward the United States also increased in the period after the brief coup because Washington had tacitly approved it.

In one of his most memorable insults, Chavez said of Bush in 2006 before the U.N. General Assembly:

"The devil came here yesterday. And it smells of sulfur still today."

In 2007, Chavez tasted defeat for the first time, in a referendum seeking approval for constitutional reforms that would have deepened his socialist policies. Nonetheless, thanks to a National Assembly friendly to him, Chavez achieved some of his goals, including indefinite re-election.

That same year, Chavez created a new political party, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela, which merged his party with several other leftist parties.

His detractors accused him of being authoritarian, populist and even dictatorial for having pushed through a constitutional reform that allowed indefinite re-election.

Increasingly, Chavez used legislation to clamp down on broadcasters and other media. His government relentlessly went after opposition broadcaster Globovision, accusing it of a number of violations, from failure to pay taxes to disregarding a media responsibility law.

The broadcaster is the last remaining TV network that carries an anti-Chavez line, since the president refused to renew the license of another opposition station, RCTV, allegedly over telecommunication regulation violations. The station had to go off public airwaves and transmit solely on cable.

Abroad, Chavez was also known for his colorful -- if sometimes strange -- statements.

Last year, after several Latin American leaders were diagnosed with cancer, himself included, he wondered if the United States was behind it.

"Would it be strange if (the United States) had developed a technology to induce cancer, and for no one to know it?" he asked.

During a water shortage that Venezuela suffered in 2009, he took to the airwaves to encourage Venezuelans to take showers that lasted only three minutes.

At a summit in 2007, his repeated attempts to interrupt resulted in King Juan Carlos of Spain saying to him, "Why don't you shut up?"

Chavez was a believer that the days of the "Washington consensus," a model of economic reforms favored by the United States for developing countries, were over.

Along with Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia, Nicaragua and some Caribbean countries, Chavez formed the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America, or ALBA, a group intended to offer an alternative to U.S. influence in the region.

As president, Chavez made clear his ambitions of being a regional and international leader who left, in his own way, changes that awakened passions and feelings in favor and against -- everything except indifference.

CNN's Mariano Castillo reported from Atlanta and journalist Osmary Hernandez reported from Caracas. CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet contributed to this report.


Massive idiot, I'm glad he has passed away. As a fellow Latin American, I feel like the continent can now move forward (although there are still exceptions such as Evo Morales that slow growth down) He shut down various communications outlets, and has acted in an unprofessional manner throughout his terms. Let's see what the next administration will be like.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:44 PM

Good riddance to a bad socialist.
He was an insult to the left wing of politics and would have become a tyrant have Venezuela not shot down his little 'President-for-Life' idea.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:44 PM

Wow, that's young.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:49 PM



He was one of the worst dictators in the world today. Hopefully his successor isn't as terrible as him, it would be a tragedy for the Venezuelan people to have to endure another person like him in charge.

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#5

Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:08 PM

To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive. He was one of the few in the world who actually stood up to the greed of corporate multinationals and put the people of his nation first. Just look at what he did for the poor by providing housing and education.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:09 PM

Certainly it's a celebration time for all us Latin Americans, not only for the Venezuelan.
As you said, we can seek some progress now.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:08)
To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive. He was one of the few in the world who actually stood up to the greed of corporate multinationals and put the people of his nation first. Just look at what he did for the poor by providing housing and education.

People make him out to be the spawn of Satan. Ignorance is bliss.

Lots of Latinos actually liked Chavez.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:08)
To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive. He was one of the few in the world who actually stood up to the greed of corporate multinationals and put the people of his nation first. Just look at what he did for the poor by providing housing and education.

Yea, he was 100 pounds overweight while alot of the people starved.. Some hero! Good riddance, good day for Venezuela!

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:08)
To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive.

He wasn't a Socialist. A true Socialist doesn't establish a personality cult, which Chavez did.
He was a populist, nothing more. And I have never known a populist that could be trusted with even the slightest amount of power.
A populist, a braggart, an aspiring tyrant. But not a Socialist. Not in any true sense of the word.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 20:13)
QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:08)
To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive.

He wasn't a Socialist. A true Socialist doesn't establish a personality cult, which Chavez did.
He was a populist, nothing more. And I have never known a populist that could be trusted with even the slightest amount of power.
A populist, a braggart, an aspiring tyrant. But not a Socialist. Not in any true sense of the word.

You said it all, dude. He was one of the kind who tried to hide the problem without really solving it, which is nothing.
It would be better to stay quiet and do nothing for the people than fool them making them believe the poorness was being healed.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

Did Chavez dies before Castro, wow.


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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:08)
To hate the man simply because he was a socialist is naive. He was one of the few in the world who actually stood up to the greed of corporate multinationals and put the people of his nation first. Just look at what he did for the poor by providing housing and education.

No Ryan, I have to disagree with you, he was a carismatic leader and such but wat he did to Venezuela is unforgivable, he didnīt put the people first, he put his interests first to keep as a president while he and his goverment stealed a lot of money, give away our oil, secretly protecting armed groups to create fear in people, supporting FARC in Colombia, he is part of todayīs missery of Venezuela, yes he indeed tried to help people but just as a cover to keep on the power, because there are a lot more of homeless people nowadays that it used to be 15 years ago, Im not happy with his dead but Im not also sad, I just donīt now what to feel.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

Ryan is ignorant

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:36 PM

I'm not going to attempt to convince people of him because he's dead now and it's not like it really matters, nor am I saying he was the greatest leader. Sure Venezuela has it's share of problems, as do we, but he did a lot for the country and it's people during his time. Clearly people were happy with him as he was reelected twice. Only reason the western world hates him so much is because he was one of the few who stood up against capitalism.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:36)
I'm not going to attempt to convince people of him because he's dead now and it's not like it really matters, nor am I saying he was the greatest leader. Sure Venezuela has it's share of problems, as do we, but he did a lot for the country and it's people during his time. Clearly people were happy with him as he was reelected twice. Only reason the western world hates him so much is because he was one of the few who stood up against capitalism.

Well Ryan tell me what good and really remarkable thing he did for my country?
Because in his 15 years of goverment, he took down the contry.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:36)
Only reason the western world hates him so much is because he was one of the few who stood up against capitalism.

It has nothing to do with his grandstanding? His xenophobic rhetoric?
It has nothing to do with how he exalted himself above the people he swore to represent?

Can't you see? When a leader has his face plastered everywhere, when he tries to push through legislation that would make him a dictator, when he starts forming 'civilian militias', it makes him look like a bloody tyrant.

You must understand that. You must understand just how deeply this man betrayed the Socialist cause.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:46 PM Edited by Chunkyman, 05 March 2013 - 11:49 PM.

QUOTE (Ryan @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:36)
Only reason the western world hates him so much is because he was one of the few who stood up against capitalism.

Or maybe it's because his insistence on economic interventionism and a rejection of property rights trapped huge numbers of Venezuelans in poverty. A notable example was his insistence on putting price controls on food, causing massive shortages, underproduction, malnourishment for many, and discouraging imports. There were also his initiatives to forcibly nationalize or redistribute rich people's assets (because LOL "property rights"), which has resulted in economic stagnation.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:56 PM

He did a lot for Venezuela. He helped the poor out tremendously, at the expense of the powerful middle and upper classes. He wasn't a dictator not at all. There is some serious ignorance in here. Personally I think he had the interests of his people at heart, but at the same time he was also quite radical and egotistical, but still a force for good. He was by no means perfect, but you can't say he didn't try and fight for the poor of Venezuela.

There is a lot of negative bias in his representation in western media, and that's because he was against the U.S. He took away the power of the U.S. corporations that ran the Venezuelan oil industry, and used it to trade and improve relations with neighbours like Cuba. Ryan is spot on, don't believe everything you read and hear.

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:57 PM

I don't really care about this that much to keep this going, so I'm not going to waste any more time defending my view. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that he was not as bad of a leader as the west vilify's him to be.

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:03 AM

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:56)
There is some serious ignorance in here. Personally I think he had the interests of his people at heart, but at the same time he was also quite radical and egotistical, but still a force for good. He was by no means perfect, but you can't say he didn't try and fight for the poor of Venezuela.

How can an egotist ever truly fight for the good of the people?
Narcissists are, by their nature, elitists and not prone to empathy or philanthropy. I think he fell in love with the myth of Chavez. Chavez the strong-man, Chavez the revolutionary, Chavez the saviour.
He schmoozed with movie stars, he conducted himself with no grace, he propped himself up on a platform of trendy Anti-Ameircanism to hide his own domestic policy failiures.

He was, as you said, an egotist. And I don't believe an egotist is capable of much good.

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:07 AM Edited by Distrom, 06 March 2013 - 12:12 AM.

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:56)
He did a lot for Venezuela. He helped the poor out tremendously, at the expense of the powerful middle and upper classes. He wasn't a dictator not at all. There is some serious ignorance in here. Personally I think he had the interests of his people at heart, but at the same time he was also quite radical and egotistical, but still a force for good. He was by no means perfect, but you can't say he didn't try and fight for the poor of Venezuela.

There is a lot of negative bias in his representation in western media, and that's because he was against the U.S. He took away the power of the U.S. corporations that ran the Venezuelan oil industry, and used it to trade and improve relations with neighbours like Cuba. Ryan is spot on, don't believe everything you read and hear.

Tell me please man, tell me what good he did for my country?

How did he helped the poor when half of the population doesnīt have a worthy home?

Tell me how did helped the country when every month 500 people are getting violently killed by insecurity?

Venezuela, an oil producer coutry, has the biggest inflation of Latin America

A president who supported FARC, a terrorist group in Colombia

A president who supported violent groups to keep people on fear

A president who sent to murder a lot of people?

A guy who led a coup in 1992

A guy who constantly insults people from other countries such as USA

You can belive what you want but I live this everyday and Im telling you wich one is the real situation here.

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:25 AM

Ahmadinejad's gonna be pissed.

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#23

Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:41 AM Edited by GTA_stu, 06 March 2013 - 01:02 AM.

QUOTE (Distrom @ Wednesday, Mar 6 2013, 00:07)
QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:56)
He did a lot for Venezuela. He helped the poor out tremendously, at the expense of the powerful middle and upper classes. He wasn't a dictator not at all. There is some serious ignorance in here. Personally I think he had the interests of his people at heart, but at the same time he was also quite radical and egotistical, but still a force for good. He was by no means perfect, but you can't say he didn't try and fight for the poor of Venezuela.

There is a lot of negative bias in his representation in western media, and that's because he was against the U.S. He took away the power of the U.S. corporations that ran the Venezuelan oil industry, and used it to trade and improve relations with neighbours like Cuba. Ryan is spot on, don't believe everything you read and hear.

Tell me please man, tell me what good he did for my country?

Look I'm not an expert and I don't have a detailed understanding of certain issues, my point was that the view people have of Chavez is unfair and not based on the truth. As for your points:

QUOTE
A president who supported FARC, a terrorist group in Colombia


Terrorist according to who? Brazil, Ecuador and Argentina don't classify it as such. And in what way has he supported them? as far as I'm aware he hasn't armed them or supported their violence and kidnappings. In fact Venezuela under Chavez has acted as mediator many times between the Colombian Gvt. and the FARC. You think Colombia would agree to that if Chavez was advocating the kidnappings etc?

QUOTE
A guy who led a coup in 1992


That automatically makes him a bad person, who only has evil interests at heart? To make political progress, especially in corrupt and unbalanced nations often requires some form of drastic action such as that. The opposition attempted their own coup in 2002. Nobody is perfect.

QUOTE
A guy who constantly insults people from other countries such as USA


I could say the same thing about any number of statesmen or leaders. The Duke of Edinburgh for one, but everybody loves him for it lol.

QUOTE
How did he helped the poor when half of the population doesnīt have a worthy home?


Poverty has decreased drastically though, it's a fact. Click.

He introduced a lot of measures and legislation in order to improve the health care, education and social welfare of ordinary citizens. Public spending on all of these went up drastically under Chavez. He did do a lot to help the poor, certainly more than any previous government had.



Edit: Typhus. You really think simply having a bit of an ego is a terrible thing? Really? Churchill had an ego, so did Teddy Roosevelt. Lots of people have large egos and vanity in them. All I meant was he liked to cater a certain self image at times, appearing as a tough guy or not afraid to speak his mind. So instead of behaving more rationally, he acted inappropriately. Like when he called Bush the devil at the UN. You totally got the wrong end of the stick.

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#24

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:17 AM Edited by Distrom, 06 March 2013 - 01:20 AM.

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Wednesday, Mar 6 2013, 00:41)
QUOTE (Distrom @ Wednesday, Mar 6 2013, 00:07)
QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 23:56)
He did a lot for Venezuela. He helped the poor out tremendously, at the expense of the powerful middle and upper classes. He wasn't a dictator not at all. There is some serious ignorance in here. Personally I think he had the interests of his people at heart, but at the same time he was also quite radical and egotistical, but still a force for good. He was by no means perfect, but you can't say he didn't try and fight for the poor of Venezuela.

There is a lot of negative bias in his representation in western media, and that's because he was against the U.S. He took away the power of the U.S. corporations that ran the Venezuelan oil industry, and used it to trade and improve relations with neighbours like Cuba. Ryan is spot on, don't believe everything you read and hear.

Tell me please man, tell me what good he did for my country?

Look I'm not an expert and I don't have a detailed understanding of certain issues, my point was that the view people have of Chavez is unfair and not based on the truth. As for your points:

QUOTE
A president who supported FARC, a terrorist group in Colombia


Terrorist according to who? Brazil, Ecuador and Argentina don't classify it as such. And in what way has he supported them? as far as I'm aware he hasn't armed them or supported their violence and kidnappings. In fact Venezuela under Chavez has acted as mediator many times between the Colombian Gvt. and the FARC. You think Colombia would agree to that if Chavez was advocating the kidnappings etc?

QUOTE
A guy who led a coup in 1992


That automatically makes him a bad person, who only has evil interests at heart? To make political progress, especially in corrupt and unbalanced nations often requires some form of drastic action such as that. The opposition attempted their own coup in 2002. Nobody is perfect.

QUOTE
A guy who constantly insults people from other countries such as USA


I could say the same thing about any number of statesmen or leaders. The Duke of Edinburgh for one, but everybody loves him for it lol.

QUOTE
How did he helped the poor when half of the population doesnīt have a worthy home?


Poverty has decreased drastically though, it's a fact. Click.

He introduced a lot of measures and legislation in order to improve the health care, education and social welfare of ordinary citizens. Public spending on all of these went up drastically under Chavez. He did do a lot to help the poor, certainly more than any previous government had.



Edit: Typhus. You really think simply having a bit of an ego is a terrible thing? Really? Churchill had an ego, so did Teddy Roosevelt. Lots of people have large egos and vanity in them. All I meant was he liked to cater a certain self image at times, appearing as a tough guy or not afraid to speak his mind. So instead of behaving more rationally, he acted inappropriately. Like when he called Bush the devil at the UN. You totally got the wrong end of the stick and went off on one of your bizarre rants again.

so trying to take out a constituional goverment using the force, when hundreds of civilians and soliders died, is for the progress of a country? well maybe but as you should know, the country right now is passing its worst crysis

A fact that Poverty decreased?, everyday the poor neighbourhoods are even bigger, lok "Petare" at google
Also Look up what happened on April 11. 2002
A big and pacific March that went to the center of Caracas, going to the goverment palace, well the goverment of Hugo Chavez send some groups of armed people to create fear in people, sadly 12 people got killed

What I donīt understand is why to defend a guy who literally drove this country to the ruin, you can think whatever you want man, we are all free to belive in what we want, but I donīt think you lived in venezuela for the last 15 years, Hearing about a country on the news is a lot more different than living in it, and I can tell you, this guy was evil, full of hatred, his philosophy was: if you arenīt with me, then you are against me.

I Just donīt get how he helped the country...
We are even worst than we were 15 years ago

Chunkyman
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#25

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:32 AM Edited by Chunkyman, 06 March 2013 - 01:34 AM.

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Wednesday, Mar 6 2013, 00:41)

Poverty has decreased drastically though, it's a fact.


No, it really isn't.

I have quite a few issues with that study. For starters, it takes place before Chavez ramped up his policy of nationalizing industries. Venezuela is also one of the worst countries to start a business in or invest, hardly anyone wants to do business their because it's regulatory agencies are bureaucratic nightmares, forcible seizure of property (including businesses) is common, and it has a tax code based on tall poppy syndrome.

Furthermore, they rely on numerous (completely unsupported) assumptions as evidence. These include assumptions the state throwing money at problems makes things better (*cough* free lunch myth *cough*), they assume GDP (and other macroeconomic statistics) gives accurate information about people's actual standard of living, and they ignore the possible affects of business cycles.

Deffpony
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#26

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:33 AM

Chavez was a terrible leader. But some of what Ryan said and others have said is true. The media, like everything else, has sensationalized how "evil" he was.

Chavez oppressed his people. They have been revolting against his presidency for years but he had rigged the politics of that country so he can never lose.

Venezuela is a perfect example of what happens when a president only does things to benefit the rich.

You guys want to know how I heard he died...? I was in the library at my university campus studying. Suddenly I heard a group of people talking loudly in Spanish. Then it became almost a roar of cheering.

As I left the library there were hundreds of people cheering. My school has ALOT of Venezuelans that attend. I asked one of them, who was waving a Venezuelan flag, what was going on. I thought it was some soccer game or some sh*t.

He told me Chavez was dead and Venezuela was saved. Out of the hundreds of Venezuelans I know, yes hundreds, I have never met one person who supported Chavez.


Distrom
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#27

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:52 AM Edited by Distrom, 06 March 2013 - 02:01 AM.

QUOTE (deffpony @ Wednesday, Mar 6 2013, 01:33)
Chavez was a terrible leader. But some of what Ryan said and others have said is true. The media, like everything else, has sensationalized how "evil" he was.

Chavez oppressed his people. They have been revolting against his presidency for years but he had rigged the politics of that country so he can never lose.

Venezuela is a perfect example of what happens when a president only does things to benefit the rich.

You guys want to know how I heard he died...?  I was in the library at my university campus studying. Suddenly I heard a group of people talking loudly in Spanish. Then it became almost a roar of cheering.

As I left the library there were hundreds of people cheering. My school has ALOT of Venezuelans that attend. I asked one of them, who was waving a Venezuelan flag, what was going on. I thought it was some soccer game or some sh*t.

He told me Chavez was dead and Venezuela was saved. Out of the hundreds of Venezuelans I know, yes hundreds, I have never met one person who supported Chavez.

Well Deffpony, only Venezuelans will know the feeling, apart from that, yes the media was very sensationalist about him
About if he was actually an evil guy?, sadly I have to say yes, he divided the country in two parts, he destroyed the economy and indebted the country with China, Russia and other countries, that he payed attention to the poor people? yes but only for his benefits, not because he really gave a sh*t about them, he was carismatic and a good storyteller, but also, evil, he hated and threatened whoever was against his ideals, his goverment was based in lies, fear and corruption, giving away oil and money just to get the support of most of the Latin American countries, he insulted the whole opposition of Venezuela, why do you think a lot of venezuelans live and study outside? because the life here is not worth anything, you canīt walk down the street at night because some robber will probably try to kill you just to take your phone, monthly there are aprox. 500 deaths due to insecurtity

It makes me feel angry when I look at comment of people who doesnīt even live in Venezuela talking about how he helped the country, Bullsh*t, he was an unpatriotic asshole, he was a cancer itself, if the hell even exists, then I hope he burns until the ternity for all the damage he did and all the families he destroyed.

Fisciletti
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#28

Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:59 AM

R.I.P.

Didn't like him anyway.

Deffpony
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#29

Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:03 AM

@distrom: just so you know I think he was evil. I just used the Venezuelan reaction as support or my reasoning.

Your right, only Venezuelans can say for sure what kind of leader her was

fgcarva1
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#30

Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:15 AM

QUOTE (deffpony @ Tuesday, Mar 5 2013, 22:33)
You guys want to know how I heard he died...? I was in the library at my university campus studying. Suddenly I heard a group of people talking loudly in Spanish. Then it became almost a roar of cheering.

As I left the library there were hundreds of people cheering. My school has ALOT of Venezuelans that attend. I asked one of them, who was waving a Venezuelan flag, what was going on. I thought it was some soccer game or some sh*t.

He told me Chavez was dead and Venezuela was saved. Out of the hundreds of Venezuelans I know, yes hundreds, I have never met one person who supported Chavez.

I was in a house full of Venezuelan people on the day of the 2012 election. I barely knew anyone and everyone was watching the Venezuelan news channel (the one that the logo is a red, blue and yellow V, forgot the name) and when the elections were announced for Chavez, not Capriles, people were crying. It was almost overwhelming being there since I am not Venezuelan, but still, a moment that solidified my negative opinion on Chavez.




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