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sublimelabs
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#1891

Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

FRA1Z3R
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#1892

Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:22)
QUOTE (FRA1Z3R @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:14)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 14:05)
For that the RAM has to be allocated to games.

And Sony wont respond unless it false info. So far they havent respond.

But I cant think of any feature which would be worth such a huge amount.

I don't know a whole lot about it, I am ignorant as f*ck right now, so can you throw some knowledge my way? If this true, what does less game allocated ram do to the performance of the game? like the Frame rate, resolution antialiasing and stuff like that?

Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

Well that sucks. Hopefully Sony says something official soon.

Thanks for the info by the way.

iNero
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#1893

Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:40 PM

QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

sublimelabs
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#1894

Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:43 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:40)
QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

The OS footprint will shrink over time, like it has been for Xbox 360 and PS3.

F4L?
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#1895

Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:40)
QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

They make the console more.powerful you complain about price, they make it weaker and cheaper you complain.

Next gen consoles are fine, chill.

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#1896

Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

If this is true then f*ck next gen consoles. What kind of OS needs 3.5Gb of RAM to work? That's either the best, most futuristic OS ever created, or an abysmal, bloated piece of sh*t software. I was really exited about the PS4 specs.

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#1897

Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 23:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:40)
QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

They make the console more.powerful you complain about price, they make it weaker and cheaper you complain.

Next gen consoles are fine, chill.

lol. who complained about price of the PS4?
really want to know that.

and whats wrong with comlaining about consoles being weaker as thought?

F4L?
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#1898

Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 08:41)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 23:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:40)
QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

They make the console more.powerful you complain about price, they make it weaker and cheaper you complain.

Next gen consoles are fine, chill.

lol. who complained about price of the PS4?
really want to know that.

and whats wrong with comlaining about consoles being weaker as thought?

Nobody has complained, but if they priced it higher with better specs I bet People would wink.gif

It's silly complaining when you would complain either way.

iNero
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#1899

Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 23:53)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 08:41)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 23:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:40)
QUOTE (sublimelabs @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (iNero @ Friday, Jul 26 2013, 18:22)
Pop ins, stuttering, high res textures are bigger, AI/pathfinding , physics and such stuff... theres actually a lot.
This wont affect the games yet but in probably 1-2 years...
Especially for Open world games, more RAM would offer so much.

This is why Microsoft and Sony are future-proofing the consoles by having reserved memory. There's nothing to worry about. 4.5gb is already like ten times more powerful than PS3.

What?!
Future proof would mean tbat games get the 7 GB and not the OS getting almost half of the RAM...

And these PS3 comparisons are not valid actually... current gen games had lots of limitations and like I said, we would see limitations way sooner with less RAM. So there is actually something to worry about..

They make the console more.powerful you complain about price, they make it weaker and cheaper you complain.

Next gen consoles are fine, chill.

lol. who complained about price of the PS4?
really want to know that.

and whats wrong with comlaining about consoles being weaker as thought?

Nobody has complained, but if they priced it higher with better specs I bet People would wink.gif

It's silly complaining when you would complain either way.

I guess noone would complain if they would charge 100$ more if you get a 2.3 TF GPU and 7GB for Games.

Would not cost more than the X1 and would have WAY more power.

F4L?
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#1900

Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:48 AM

Then why not another hundred after that? Or a hundred moreaafter the second hundred? See it doesn't matter What the specs are, you will just keep saying "Oh for just a bit more..." And more people would be upset with pricing.

iNero
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#1901

Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:14 AM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:48)
Then why not another hundred after that? Or a hundred moreaafter the second hundred? See it doesn't matter What the specs are, you will just keep saying "Oh for just a bit more..." And more people would be upset with pricing.

its not "just a bit" they would not charge more than MS and get the best possible out of it for that price. thats what they already said they are doing atm.


And this is how it looks atm:

1.5 GB is used by the OS.
1 GB is reserved for OS to futureproof ( ibviously can also get allocated to games later on)
4.5Gb are allocated to games 100%
1 GB is flexible which means that devs can use it if they need it

these things were said by some devs after some guys ask them about this topic

There also were some hints from insiders that the PS4 GPU was designed to achieve 2.3 TF. They said that Sony could overclock it later on along with an update that gives the Devs more RAM by reducing RAM for the OS by optimizing ( which they already did with the PS3)

For example, the PSP was also underclocked by 111MHZ and later on there were Games which were able to use those while it wasnt possible earlier.
http://www.playstati...derclocked.html


That would actually makes sense as Devs do less optimization the more ressources they have. And atm they wouldnt even need 5 GB at all. So if they optmize instantly from launch, an update in 3 years which upgrades the GPU clock and gives Devs more RAM, would boost the upcoming games significantly.

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#1902

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

I believe this is true, the same goes for Xbox One, 3GB of the total 8 is for the OS, the rest 5 is for games.

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#1903

Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:04 AM

Bloody hell. You could run windows 8 and Vista simultaneously with that. What kind of OS needs 3GB?

F4L?
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#1904

Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 15:14)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:48)
Then why not another hundred after that? Or a hundred moreaafter the second hundred? See it doesn't matter What the specs are, you will just keep saying "Oh for just a bit more..." And more people would be upset with pricing.

its not "just a bit" they would not charge more than MS and get the best possible out of it for that price. thats what they already said they are doing atm.

Well it is just a bit actually, you are saying exactly what I pointed out, the difference between you and Sony is that Sony drew the line at $550 dollars and you are drawing it $650. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and Sony's is at $550.

Sure it wouldn't be more expensive than the Xbox One, but it wouldn't be nearly as competitive anymore, where they drew the line is cost effective, and tech effective, a pretty large chunk of PS4 sales are going to come from parents who know jack sh*t about consoles and tech and they are just going to pick the cheaper one for their kids present or whatever.

Also about your other points, I did read them, i'm just not quoting for the sake of keeping the quote train down. As mentioned before, more RAM will be unlocked later down the track, and also the OS is going to get more optimized in turn becoming more efficient so that is also going to free up more RAM down the line. The PS4 I believe is very nicely specced at a great price and I don't believe an extra $100 is really worth it.

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#1905

Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:29)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 15:14)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 05:48)
Then why not another hundred after that? Or a hundred moreaafter the second hundred? See it doesn't matter What the specs are, you will just keep saying "Oh for just a bit more..." And more people would be upset with pricing.

its not "just a bit" they would not charge more than MS and get the best possible out of it for that price. thats what they already said they are doing atm.

Well it is just a bit actually, you are saying exactly what I pointed out, the difference between you and Sony is that Sony drew the line at $550 dollars and you are drawing it $650. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and Sony's is at $550.

Sure it wouldn't be more expensive than the Xbox One, but it wouldn't be nearly as competitive anymore, where they drew the line is cost effective, and tech effective, a pretty large chunk of PS4 sales are going to come from parents who know jack sh*t about consoles and tech and they are just going to pick the cheaper one for their kids present or whatever.

Also about your other points, I did read them, i'm just not quoting for the sake of keeping the quote train down. As mentioned before, more RAM will be unlocked later down the track, and also the OS is going to get more optimized in turn becoming more efficient so that is also going to free up more RAM down the line. The PS4 I believe is very nicely specced at a great price and I don't believe an extra $100 is really worth it.

IDT that the PS4 will ever use the entire 3gb of its OS' RAM.

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#1906

Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:18 PM


So DF updated their Article again and aparently theres only 512 MB flexibel RAM which even will have a bad effect on performence..

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#1907

Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:28 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 13:18)
So DF updated their Article again and aparently theres only 512 MB flexibel RAM which even will have a bad effect on performence..

I don't think it's reliable at all, now.

iNero
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#1908

Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:37 PM

QUOTE (josephene123 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 13:18)
So DF updated their Article again and aparently theres only 512 MB flexibel RAM which even will have a bad effect on performence..

I don't think it's reliable at all, now.

I would say the same but the fact that no dev does call BS makes it even more reliable. some devs even hinted that its legit...

I guess the bad news for PS4 will start now...
its really weird... the PS3 OS was a bit sluggish but worked with only about 50 MB RAM. How the hell can they increase it by 50x ( with the 1 GB reserved) ??? especially with this GDDR5.

and like I said, the X1 only needs 3GB that much because it has 3 OSs simultaniously. That was the plan of MS cause they dont wanted a pure Gaming Machine.

Sony on the other hand advertised the PS4 as a Gaming Console inspired by Gamers for Gamers. Yet it has even less RAm for Games than the X1...

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#1909

Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 14:37)
QUOTE (josephene123 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 15:28)
QUOTE (iNero @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 13:18)
So DF updated their Article again and aparently theres only 512 MB flexibel RAM which even will have a bad effect on performence..

I don't think it's reliable at all, now.

I would say the same but the fact that no dev does call BS makes it even more reliable. some devs even hinted that its legit...

I guess the bad news for PS4 will start now...
its really weird... the PS3 OS was a bit sluggish but worked with only about 50 MB RAM. How the hell can they increase it by 50x ( with the 1 GB reserved) ??? especially with this GDDR5.

and like I said, the X1 only needs 3GB that much because it has 3 OSs simultaniously. That was the plan of MS cause they dont wanted a pure Gaming Machine.

Sony on the other hand advertised the PS4 as a Gaming Console inspired by Gamers for Gamers. Yet it has even less RAm for Games than the X1...

True, but consider that the GDDR5 ram is still much faster than DDR3. Even with 4.5 gb I think it's more effective than 5 gb of the Xbox although I don't know anything about the 'esRAM' stuff. Also remember that it's still the most powerful console to be had. Like others said, throughout the lifecycle of the Playstation 4, the amount used by the OS will most likely be reduced, it's all just a placeholder for the time being. When the devs are at a point when they are in need of more than 4.5 GB of GDDR5, it will most likely be made available to them.

I don't understand why we can't just have an updated version of the XMB. I didn't actually mind it, it was very subtle imo, and doesn't seem to use hardly any ram (obviously an updated version would)

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#1910

Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

sony's statement

QUOTE
We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

The actual true distinction is that:
"Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
"Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.


so indirectly they confirmed it then. if they plan on only using 5GB of RAM for the next 10 years then next gen games is truly f*cked. it will deff hold back on gaming advancement just like current gen which is really disappointing

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#1911

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

How is it holding it back though? Look at the great games Devs made with 512MB. I think people are getting panicked too quick.

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#1912

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Erebos @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:01)
How is it holding it back though? Look at the great games Devs made with 512MB. I think people are getting panicked too quick.

What about in 5 years?

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#1913

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:31 PM

5gb of GDDR5 is not going to 'f*ck' next gen gaming. Seriously.

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#1914

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:32 PM

QUOTE (josephene123 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 13:31)
5gb of GDDR5 is not going to 'f*ck' next gen gaming. Seriously.

Remember that the less RAM saved for the games, the faster the console gets outdated, even if 5.5GB is a lot, it's not the same as 8GB

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#1915

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Distrom @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:32)
QUOTE (josephene123 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 13:31)
5gb of GDDR5 is not going to 'f*ck' next gen gaming. Seriously.

Remember that the less RAM saved for the games, the faster the console gets outdated, even if 5.5GB is a lot, it's not the same as 8GB

It's the amount they're giving to developers to start with. I think we'll find that Sony will make improvements and optimizations which frees up more to developers when they start to ask.

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#1916

Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:57 PM Edited by iNero, 27 July 2013 - 06:01 PM.

QUOTE (simonp92 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 19:11)
QUOTE (Erebos @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:01)
How is it holding it back though? Look at the great games Devs made with 512MB. I think people are getting panicked too quick.

What about in 5 years?

this. but I would say 3 and not 5 years. BF4s recommended RAM is 4 GB already

and this whole "look was current gen made with 512MB" argument is not valid...
current gen has tons of limitations and cut backs due the lack of RAM. I already said that most devs said that RAM is the biggest problem of current gen. saying 512 this gen was good, imagine what would have been possible with more and faster RAM.

64 Players in BF3 and other MP shooters, no pop ins, less stuttering and obviously more objects and textures on the screen.

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#1917

Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (simonp92 @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:11)
QUOTE (Erebos @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 17:01)
How is it holding it back though? Look at the great games Devs made with 512MB. I think people are getting panicked too quick.

What about in 5 years?

I mean obviously after while, it'll start showing but I still can't believe people are worrying how the consoles will be in five years considering they're not out yet.

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#1918

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:17 PM

QUOTE (kudoboi @ Saturday, Jul 27 2013, 18:07)
sony's statement

QUOTE
We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

The actual true distinction is that:
"Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
"Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.


so indirectly they confirmed it then. if they plan on only using 5GB of RAM for the next 10 years then next gen games is truly f*cked. it will deff hold back on gaming advancement just like current gen which is really disappointing

some of the insiders now said that its 6GB for Games

also we have this:

https://twitter.com/...200597300543488

(scroll up to see the whole conversation)

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#1919

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

RAM is going to do many great things for this new gen.

In a perfect world It would be nice to see 7GB for games and 1 GB for OS. Even the rumored 5.5 GB is
fine by me. I'm no big tech talk kind of guy but I do know GDDR5 RAM is real good. I think everything will
turn out fine.

I cannot wait to see Rockstar Games next gen lineup. Shifty41s_beerhatsmilie2.gif icon14.gif


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#1920

Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

So far literally NO developers are complaining about the amount of ram given for games--some are saying they don't yet know what to do with it all.




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