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why do other gangs attack even when not in green?

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Branimir202
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#1

Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

I just always wondered for example, I tried a little experiment I put on an outfit that had no green at all and walked by a corner some Ballas were standing on in Los Santos, I didn't provoke them or anything I didn't even have a weapon out. And still had 3-4 dudes shooting at me, what gives? I mean every gang-banger knows CJ is from Grove Street?

I actually like the gangs attacking you, it adds that random element of danger when you're in the hood. Seriously though, when I'm chilling downtown or a relatively upper class neighborhood. Whats with Ballas still blasting when they see CJ? even when he isn't flying the GS colors?

Boris The Vodka
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#2

Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

QUOTE (Branimir202)
I mean every gang-banger knows CJ is from Grove Street?


Exactly, since his brother leads the gang.

H.I.M.
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#3

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

Think you have an mortal-enemy. You fight with him one day and on that day think you wore a red suit. And once again you meet each other on a street with you wearing a blue suit. Won't he recognize you form your looks?

evil_hunter
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#4

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

You have obviously never travelled in St.Mark's in GTA 3. GTA SA is 10 times better in terms of hostile gang behaviour.

H.I.M.
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#5

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

QUOTE (evil_hunter @ Sunday, Feb 17 2013, 09:13)
You have obviously never travelled in St.Mark's in GTA 3. GTA SA is 10 times better in terms of hostile gang behaviour.

Yeah the GTA3 gang hostility was a bit unrealistic...They would know it was you even you were racing an Infernus at top speed.

Gary-X
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#6

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:06 PM Edited by Gary-X, 17 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

Also something I noticed, last night I was playing through the San Fierro missions and on four occasions, gangs started shooting at me for no reason.

1: I was doing 'Mountain Cloud Boys' and Woozie had shot the last Da Nang Car and we were on our way back to the betting shop, the Triads were shooting at us even though I had their Dai-Dai-Lo in the car with me.

2: Waiting to do 'Amphibious Assault' (Which can't start till 20:00) when I decided to snipe a guy who insulted CJ's weight. Afterwards, the Triads started shooting at me...

3: In 'Ice Cold Killa', I used a Rocket launcher to blow up Jizzy's Pimpmobile and the two limos. As well as a two star wanted level, I had a group of Da Nang Boys shooting at me.

4: During 'Pier 69', I had decided to snipe a few Rifa and Ballas before heading in, after heading into Pier 69, it was unknown to me that a group of Da Nang Boys had been following Cesar and I the whole time with an intention to kill us.

It seems that any harm caused by me seems to attract neutral gangs with a negative energy. I might try starting a new game to see if this works with the Aztecas, Ballas or Vagos.

PS: I was wearing a Green Hoodie, Urban Camo and Blue Low-Tops if that helps.

lloydo
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#7

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

I can remember at the start of the game before you complete so many missions and associate yourself with Grove Street again the Balllas don't recognise you and open fire instantly.

I think it helps not wearing green, but the Ballas ask where you're from and you can answer negatively or positively.

OrionSR
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#8

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:40 PM Edited by OrionSR, 17 February 2013 - 12:43 PM.

I've always been a bit suspicious about the theory that wearing green increases the aggression of rival gangs. Other than changes in random comments I've never really noticed much of a difference. It is noticeable when the Ballas start hating CJ when the gang wars start. This is due to a change to the acquaintance preferences and will persist until the story is completed.

I get the impression that the gangs respond to a hidden chaos level. So if CJ has recently been causing a lot of trouble then the gangs are on edge a more likely to attack. I think it was Vice City that featured the chaos level (mayhem?). I have vague memories of a biker mission that required a high chaos level to pass, a stat that was possible to run up using a Rhino, and a cheat that displayed the level.

SonOfLiberty
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#9

Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:05 PM Edited by Miamivicecity, 17 February 2013 - 01:10 PM.

It's always bugged me. You could dress up as a cowboy and they would still know you're from Grove Street. Though in SA's defense atleast it's not as over the top as GTA III. VC always seemed fine in this regard.

Meh I like the way gangs react in GTA IV. Contrary to belief they will attack without the physical provocation, but they're not pyschics either. So much more convincing IMO.

MyDog
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#10

Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

They know you're from Grove Street because you're an OG, the co-leader of the gang, the brother of the leader.

Verdant
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#11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:14 AM

QUOTE (evil_hunter @ Sunday, Feb 17 2013, 20:13)
You have obviously never travelled in St.Mark's in GTA 3. GTA SA is 10 times better in terms of hostile gang behaviour.

Yeah this is a pretty good point. It literally scared the sh*t out of me when people from the Leone family would casually walk slowly while I'm flying down the street with a Cheetah and then they suddenly pull out there stubby shotguns and my vehicle is up in flames.

BabeRuth
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#12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:06 AM

Any kind of firearm, you shoot, will cause trouble if your in the wrong hood. Regardless of what you wear.

Kinda like you activate "Give peds guns" and if you shoot whatever weapon you have, a taxi cab driver will get ut of the car and open fire.

H.I.M.
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#13

Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE (GtaOutKast @ Wednesday, Feb 20 2013, 06:14)
QUOTE (evil_hunter @ Sunday, Feb 17 2013, 20:13)
You have obviously never travelled in St.Mark's in GTA 3. GTA SA is 10 times better in terms of hostile gang behaviour.

Yeah this is a pretty good point. It literally scared the sh*t out of me when people from the Leone family would casually walk slowly while I'm flying down the street with a Cheetah and then they suddenly pull out there stubby shotguns and my vehicle is up in flames.

Yeah that was one pain the ass thing in GTA III. You can never even speed a car peacefully in anywhere especially in Portland.

TonyResta
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#14

Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

It's probably just scripted in the game, there's no "intelligence" on the enemy side, they know it's you no matter what you're wearing because it's that way in the game's code. Just like the police, you can completely hide yourself, change car and clothes but they still find you, IV was a big improvement on this.

King Andreas
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#15

Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:04 AM Edited by King Andreas, 25 June 2013 - 09:31 AM.

Grove is the only gang influenced by clothing selection, and it pertains to respect. The greener and pricier, the more respect you entail. Furthermore, they'll compliment your clothing selection or badmouth it, depending on these variables.

chapapote
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#16

Posted 06 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (Miamivicecity @ Sunday, Feb 17 2013, 13:05)
It's always bugged me. You could dress up as a cowboy and they would still know you're from Grove Street. Though in SA's defense atleast it's not as over the top as GTA III. VC always seemed fine in this regard.

Meh I like the way gangs react in GTA IV. Contrary to belief they will attack without the physical provocation, but they're not pyschics either. So much more convincing IMO.

Things have progressed a lot... I remember II, where there were entire areas crowded with gang members with no civilians except for muggers and carjackers, and gangs could forget absolutely anything if you went and killed some random enemy gang members.

How do gangs attack you in IV?

tpuk
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#17

Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE (Gary-X @ Sunday, Feb 17 2013, 12:06)
Also something I noticed, last night I was playing through the San Fierro missions and on four occasions, gangs started shooting at me for no reason.

1: I was doing 'Mountain Cloud Boys' and Woozie had shot the last Da Nang Car and we were on our way back to the betting shop, the Triads were shooting at us even though I had their Dai-Dai-Lo in the car with me.

2: Waiting to do 'Amphibious Assault' (Which can't start till 20:00) when I decided to snipe a guy who insulted CJ's weight. Afterwards, the Triads started shooting at me...

3: In 'Ice Cold Killa', I used a Rocket launcher to blow up Jizzy's Pimpmobile and the two limos. As well as a two star wanted level, I had a group of Da Nang Boys shooting at me.

4: During 'Pier 69', I had decided to snipe a few Rifa and Ballas before heading in, after heading into Pier 69, it was unknown to me that a group of Da Nang Boys had been following Cesar and I the whole time with an intention to kill us.

It seems that any harm caused by me seems to attract neutral gangs with a negative energy. I might try starting a new game to see if this works with the Aztecas, Ballas or Vagos.

PS: I was wearing a Green Hoodie, Urban Camo and Blue Low-Tops if that helps.

Yeah, most of those scenarios aren't uncommon and haven't been since before GTA III. Since GTA went 3D gangs would always attack you if you fired a gun in their areas, its realistic because whether your firing at them or not they're going to feel intimidated with you shooting in their hood, plus they're gonna be pissed off at you kicking off in 'their' areas as well, its a 'who do you think you are' mentality really.

Except for 4. that one's pretty random lol

OG Viking
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#18

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:25 PM

In the beginning, Ballas are no more hostile than other rival gangs. After the mission "Drive-By" they will recognize CJ as an enemy much faster. If you pay attention, Sweet even tells you this at the end of the mission.

The silenced gun works well in gang areas. Cops will always "hear" the silenced gun which is a bit strange, but other NPC won't.

King Andreas
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#19

Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:18 AM Edited by King Andreas, 16 July 2013 - 06:37 PM.

OG, don't confuse the hostility levels the gangs direct at CJ with the hostility they direct towards each other.

These combinations will result in the gangs badmouthing each other for 15 seconds, then suddenly attacking:

-Grove & Aztecas; Grove & Vagos; Ballas & Vagos; Ballas & Aztecas; Rifas & Triads; Rifas & Da Nang

These combinations will result in the gangs attacking each other on sight:

-Ballas & Grove; Ballas & Rifas; Ballas & Da Nang; Ballas & Triads; Ballas & Mafia; Grove & Rifas; Grove & Da Nang; Grove & Triads; Grove & Mafia; Vagos & Aztecas; Vagos & Rifas; Vagos & Da Nang; Vagos & Mafia; Vagos & Triads; Aztecas & Rifas; Aztecas & Da Nang; Aztecas & Triads; Aztecas & Mafia; Rifas & Mafia; Da Nang & Triads; Da Nang & Mafia; Triads & Mafia; last but not least, Unused Gang 9 will attack any gang on sight.

I think I covered everything; if not, all other combinations are an on sight attack outcome.

To compare how the gangs react to CJ:

Ballas will (depending on the circumstances, as you pointed out) attack CJ on sight, or badmouth him for less than 15 seconds, then attack.

These gangs will badmouth CJ for 15 seconds, then attack:

-Vagos and Aztecas

These gangs will ignore CJ unless he demonstrates aggression:

-Rifas, Da Nang, Mafia, Triads, and Unused Gang 9

As you can see, many of the gangs that attack Grove on sight will ignore CJ unless provoked, so once again, you can't compare apples & oranges. Hopefully the contrast is (figuratively speaking) carved in stone.

However, when you recruit a Grove member, he will start to attack Vagos & Aztecas on sight too. But if a Balla shows up, he stops shooting the Vagos or Aztecas and turns his attention to the Ballas. Once then, he won't turn back to the Vagos or Aztecas unless they attack him, or he kills the Balla.

OG Viking
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#20

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (King Andreas @ Tuesday, Jul 16 2013, 03:18)
OG, don't confuse the hostility levels the gangs direct at CJ with the hostility they direct towards each other.

But it was the aggression towards CJ that was the topic.... smile.gif
Thanks for all the extra details though.



QUOTE (King Andreas @ Tuesday, Jul 16 2013, 03:18)

However, when you recruit a Grove member, he will start to attack Vagos & Aztecas on sight too. But if a Balla shows up, he stops shooting the Vagos or Aztecas and turns his attention to the Ballas. Once then, he won't turn back to the Vagos or Aztecas unless they attack him, or he kills the Balla.

I had not tested that, but it's fun to know it. But I guess the recruited member will ignore the Ballas if CJ orders him to attack someone else.
If the recruited member is not ordered to attack anyone, I wonder in what order the GSF member will attack enemies if also CJ has a wanted level and you throw a cop into the mix?

In the presence of Vagos and Aztecas, I think it is random who he attacks first.

King Andreas
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#21

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:33 PM

Oh, this topic is about hostility towards CJ. Sorry about that, dude, I meant to click on another topic, and thought I did.

I just tested; it appears when you instruct Grove to attack anyone, it overrules their hostility levels towards rivals and cops. Grove will only attack cops if you have a wanted level, or you instruct them to. If you have a wanted level and Ballas are nearby, Grove will turn their attention to the cops. Evidently, they hate responding officers more than their rivals. Presumably, this is because all gangs, except Grove, will ignore responding officers, causing the rivals (Ballas, in this case) to cease fire due to fear, and the cops to continue shooting at Grove. So naturally, this brings forth that result.

As for Aztecas & Vagos, they attack on sight; as for Grove against Aztecas or Vagos, whichever gang starts arguing first always attacks first. This varies, needless to say.

OG Viking
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#22

Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:13 AM

QUOTE (King Andreas @ Wednesday, Jul 17 2013, 00:33)
Presumably, this is because all gangs, except Grove, will ignore responding officers, causing the rivals (Ballas, in this case) to cease fire due to fear, and the cops to continue shooting at Grove. So naturally, this brings forth that result.

I doubt this part is right.

Pedestrian gang members and gang members in vehicles have different sets of personalities. This is true for all gangs.

If a cop is shooting at one gang member, other gang members on foot are likely to run away or ignore the cop whether they are armed or not. But gang members in vehicles are likely to stop and attack the cop, if they are armed.

Another difference is that pedestrian gang members are not trying to get out of harms way if a car is coming towards them, whereas a gang member on foot that has got out of a car will try to get out of the way.

King Andreas
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#23

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

Correction: I meant to say rival gang members (such as Ballas) ignore cops in regards to CJ having a wanted level. The ones in vehicles (who're armed) may shoot at cops, though not because of the wanted level, but because they think the cops are shooting at their vehicle. Fascinatingly, Grove members (if they're armed) will get out of their vehicle and shoot at you, if you shoot their vehicles. Gang members take their cars very seriously, it seems.

OG Viking
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#24

Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:17 PM Edited by OG Viking, 22 July 2013 - 12:23 PM.

QUOTE (King Andreas @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 11:09)
The ones in vehicles (who're armed) may shoot at cops, though not because of the wanted level, but because they think the cops are shooting at their vehicle.

Maybe, but I like to believe that gang members sees themselves as some sort of illegal "authority figures" and will attack any strangers who opens fire in "their" streets.
Except the pedestrian gang members, I think they must be high or drunk because they don't care about anything. Lol it often annoys me when I want GSF peds to defend CJ from cops but they instead start to run away when the cops shoots at CJ. Especially when they are a group of 4-5 members and they all run! sneaky2.gif Other times they will attack cop cars with their bare fists and get run over until they die, so it's strange.

QUOTE
Fascinatingly, Grove members (if they're armed) will get out of their vehicle and shoot at you, if you shoot their vehicles. Gang members take their cars very seriously, it seems.

Yes, and Desert Eagle guys are dangerous! But I think that (most times) CJ can make the hostile GSF member cease fire by recruiting him.

I have also wondered if the Respect stat does more than limiting the number of recruited members.
GSF drivers will often attack CJ if CJ attacks their car, but I believe that I also have seen GSF pedestrians open fire on CJ when CJ attacked them (no cars involved), but normally they will flee. I don't know if the Respect stat does anything here.

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#25

Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (OG Viking @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 03:13)
I doubt this part is right.

Pedestrian gang members and gang members in vehicles have different sets of personalities. This is true for all gangs.

If a cop is shooting at one gang member, other gang members on foot are likely to run away or ignore the cop whether they are armed or not. But gang members in vehicles are likely to stop and attack the cop, if they are armed.

Another difference is that pedestrian gang members are not trying to get out of harms way if a car is coming towards them, whereas a gang member on foot that has got out of a car will try to get out of the way.

Another way to tell is when CJ is on the WANTED LEVEL the Grove members will attack the cop, but if he's not on WANTED LEVEL they won't attack the cops.

OG Viking
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#26

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (BabeRuth @ Tuesday, Jul 23 2013, 19:29)
QUOTE (OG Viking @ Monday, Jul 22 2013, 03:13)
I doubt this part is right.

Pedestrian gang members and gang members in vehicles have different sets of personalities. This is true for all gangs.

If a cop is shooting at one gang member, other gang members on foot are likely to run away or ignore the cop whether they are armed or not. But gang members in vehicles are likely to stop and attack the cop, if they are armed.

Another difference is that pedestrian gang members are not trying to get out of harms way if a car is coming towards them, whereas a gang member on foot that has got out of a car will try to get out of the way.

Another way to tell is when CJ is on the WANTED LEVEL the Grove members will attack the cop, but if he's not on WANTED LEVEL they won't attack the cops.

I can't speak for the PC version. On the PS2 version, cops won't care about anyone else other than CJ if CJ is wanted. But regardless, what I said about gang members (Grove or any other gang) is still valid:
If a cop is shooting at a NPC, nearby gang members driving a vehicle are likely to stop and open fire at the cop if they've got a gun. Gang members on foot are likely to run or ignore.
If the cop is shooting at CJ, friendly pedestrian gang members will either run away or attack the cop with guns or melee. Rival pedestrian gang members won't attack the cop in this case.




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