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Did GTA 3 have a bad plot?

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bobgtafan
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#1

Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:13 AM

Really a simple thread, did GTA 3 have a bad plot? My answer is yes. The game had the best setting of just about any video game even 12 years on now, the characters were memorable and we only spent a few minute long (at best) cut scenes with them. So yeah, the setting was good, the set up was nice, the rising action was great, and then....meh.

We give up 500k which is supposed to be important but we already should of had a million from the insane inflation value of the missions, we lose our weapons in an obvious set up, we punch a dude to death which is admittedly one of the most bad ass scenes in Video Game history, and then the rest makes no f*cking sense. Claude escapes the mansion and then Catalina flies to the Cochrane Dam where the Cartel had like 20 guys with military grade weapons waiting....wtf why? Can we just pause for a moment and wonder why the hell they were their in the first place? Even for Liberty City 20 foreigners military style occupying the cities primary water and power supply seems like a big f*cking deal. What was Catalina planning on her thugs at the Cedar Grove mansion missing every shot? Seriously what the flying f*ck.

Anyway then we get to Cochrane we kill all the foreigners and then bam Catalina drops Maria off on the helicopter pad. Why? f*cking why? Seriously what the f*ck is the purpose? Also if they had a helicopter with a rocker launcher or whatever why not just kill Claude while he's in route to the Dam? And even if you want to say

"Well the rocket launcher was at the Dam, they had to go pick it up"

Why leave the damn launcher on the Dam? As if the 20 M-16's Claude just picked up hasn't already made this fight hard enough for you to win.

So of course Claude kills everyone because they were comically stupid in their actions and shooting ability, and then BAM he kills Maria. Well it's off screen so we don't even get to see that, even though we all get he killed her.


OK so the climax of the game sucked dick, the rising action started sucking the moment Love just disappeared (Love being the most interesting character in game mind you) and now there's no falling action at all. It's just Claude walks into the sunset after getting his revenge on his retarded former girlfriend and resumes betting hookers to death with a baseball bat.

Good game, horrible plot.
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MrMateczko
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#2

Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:30 AM

It's just a game, the plot doesn't have to make sense, it's supposed to entertain you. Keep in mind, that this was Rockstar's first attempt at a real story in GTA. Look at the later games, they spent more time creating memorable stories. Also keep in mind that, some things were changed because of 9/11, and thus we have such things as "Love's Disappearance".
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Linc.
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#3

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

The plot had major gaps, however I wouldn't go as far to say it's bad. As Mateczko said it was their first attempt at a proper storyline. Taking that and the short time they had to make the game into account it's a very well made game (especially for 2001).

I still love it. inlove.gif
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Kristian.
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#4

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 08:13)
We give up 500k which is supposed to be important but we already should of had a million from the insane inflation value of the missions, we lose our weapons in an obvious set up...

I think it's very possible that Claude still had some feelings for Catalina, otherwise I don't see why he didn't shoot her at the building site. I know the story would have been short if he had shot her but there has to be an explanation for that.

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 08:13)
Claude escapes the mansion and then Catalina flies to the Cochrane Dam where the Cartel had like 20 guys with military grade weapons waiting....wtf why? Can we just pause for a moment and wonder why the hell they were their in the first place? Even for Liberty City 20 foreigners military style occupying the cities primary water and power supply seems like a big f*cking deal. What was Catalina planning on her thugs at the Cedar Grove mansion missing every shot? Seriously what the flying f*ck.

She flies away before Claude escapes. We don't know what she was doing at the dam but that place is Colombian territory. As for the weapons, I don't see the problem. Why is it so hard to imagine how they got the weapons? Also, it's their territory so it's sort of implied that they have some weapon stash somewhere and Catalina could have phoned them to guard the place in case Claude escapes.

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 08:13)

Anyway then we get to Cochrane we kill all the foreigners and then bam Catalina drops Maria off on the helicopter pad. Why? f*cking why? Seriously what the f*ck is the purpose? Also if they had a helicopter with a rocker launcher or whatever why not just kill Claude while he's in route to the Dam?

That's not how I remember it. You kill the Colombians and she starts shooting at you from the helicopter. After you destroy the helicopter you have to kill the rest of the members and finally you get to Maria. Catalina probably left her there so one of the members of the cartel would kill her.


QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 08:13)
So of course Claude kills everyone because they were comically stupid in their actions and shooting ability, and then BAM he kills Maria. Well it's off screen so we don't even get to see that, even though we all get he killed her.

Personally I don't think he came to save Maria. He wanted to settle things between him and Catalina. It's possible that he was still in love and that's why he agreed to meet her unarmed.

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 08:13)
OK so the climax of the game sucked dick, the rising action started sucking the moment Love just disappeared (Love being the most interesting character in game mind you) and now there's no falling action at all. It's just Claude walks into the sunset after getting his revenge on his retarded former girlfriend and resumes betting hookers to death with a baseball bat.

I didn't find Donald that interesting to be honest. What did we know about him? Basically nothing.

ThatSpecialSomeone
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#5

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

Rockstar needed to cut a lot things from game, so it may seems that plot sometimes doesn't make sense. But it's 2001 game and despite of these changes GTA III was and still is one of the best games ever made well at least for me. Maybe it seems weird but for me actually this makes game more enjoyable things like Love's disappearance, gunshot at the end of the game etc. add mystery to story I like how they leaved some things unanswered. It's certainly not perfect game by any means but I still love it. inlove.gif

Kristian.
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#6

Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (0909090 @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 14:44)
Rockstar needed to cut a lot things from game

user posted image
http://www.rockstarg...911-the-gh.html

Filip454
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#7

Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

Obviously lie. Houser lied about gta v too. And think logically - it will can be 1% even with half of less important models so it depends on how you look.

Kristian.
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#8

Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:43 PM

I don't see any evidence of that being a lie and I don't see any reason for it.

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#9

Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

Yes, the story could be better, some things are not explained.

But we got to consider the fact that it wasn't supposed to have an entertaining plot, the game is focused in revenge and gameplay,
also it was the first 3d game, so it was another difference comparing to the other games until then.

The plot is not that good, some things are not explained, some things are hard to understand but still, it was the first 3d game, it brought plenty of new concepts for gaming industry so III was excellent for its time.

bobgtafan
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#10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

QUOTE
I think it's very possible that Claude still had some feelings for Catalina, otherwise I don't see why he didn't shoot her at the building site. I know the story would have been short if he had shot her but there has to be an explanation for that.


I think you're right because Claude even could of killed her early on in Portland with the "Cutting the grass". That changes the whole game though and makes me think Claude is beyond irrational and while presents an alternative way to look at the plot makes the plot even worse.

QUOTE
Catalina could have phoned them to guard the place in case Claude escapes.


You got me on the rest but that doesn't make sense either. When she left he had a loaded gun to his head and no weapons. Unless she really doubted the ability of her men to handle simple task.

QUOTE
Catalina probably left her there so one of the members of the cartel would kill her.

That doesn't make sense either. If Catalina was going to kill Maria why not just throw her out of the helicopter, who shoot her with one of the many guns Catalina probably has on her, or just punch her to death or while Marias just standing on the helipad have one of the two guys with M-16s doing nothing kill her. Yeah badly written man.

QUOTE
Personally I don't think he came to save Maria. He wanted to settle things between him and Catalina. It's possible that he was still in love and that's why he agreed to meet her unarmed.

And see while I get this theory about the plot that makes everything worse, because that means Claude is so thick headed that he thought

A. Becoming a made man by destroying her SPANK factory would impress Catalina (Ended up almost getting car bombed)
B. Becoming a high priced hitman/problem solver would impress her (Hint the suicide bombers and the note)
C. Destroying her criminal empire in Liberty City and extortion attempts of Donald Love (Well that ended up in the missions Ransom and the Exchange)

If after A. he didn't get the point then the plot becomes beyond reproach.

QUOTE
What did we know about him? Basically nothing.

That was somewhat the point. He's a multi-billionaire conglomate and then he just disappears with his random Asian and random package. Could of been handled better.

In the end I understand the story wasn't the focus but even in terms of simple story telling this just doesn't add up.

Kristian.
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#11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

People in love or under stress can be irrational.

Maybe the cartel members came at the dam after Claude escaped from the mansion, maybe some member outside the mansion warned them. You can think of plenty explanations.

What if she didn't want to kill her? Maybe Catalina realized that Claude didn't care about Maria at all and he came to see her, so she didn't care to kill Maria.

I think he mostly wanted revenge, but he still had some feelings and he couldn't really kill her until she was a real threat (when she shot at him from the helicopter).

sibs44
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#12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

Rockstar are a bunch of liars. When asked if the guy who worked in the Ammunation in Portland was supposed to be Sam houser they said no; when clearly the skin of that model is named "sam.txd".

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#13

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

They said he was based on someone related to Sam if I remember correctly. How do you know they are lying exactly?

Carbonox
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#14

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

The plot isn't necessarily that bad, it's just more or less childish and simple compared to later titles.

Irrational
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#15

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:19 PM Edited by ClaudeSpeedRulez, 02 February 2013 - 01:21 PM.

If GTA III's plot was bad, then I have no words to describe San Andreas'. facedesk.gif
QUOTE
(Love being the most interesting character in game mind you)

I think that he and Asuka are the best main characters in the game.
(Claude being the best protagonist.) ph34r.gif
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bobgtafan
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#16

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:03 PM

QUOTE (ClaudeSpeedRulez @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 13:19)
If GTA III's plot was bad, then I have no words to describe San Andreas'. facedesk.gif
QUOTE
(Love being the most interesting character in game mind you)

I think that he and Asuka are the best main characters in the game.
(Claude being the best protagonist.) ph34r.gif

Hey San Andreas was...well that was..let's not go there.

Kaydee.
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#17

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:25 PM

^That guy is just a fanboy desperate for attention, ignore him.

What bothers me is not the story itself, but the fact that some things are not explained/make no sense.
When Claude escaped and the local police made no effort to put him back in jail, Love's disappearance, etc.
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Irrational
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#18

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE (Kaydee. @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 18:25)
^That guy is just a fanboy desperate for attention, ignore him.

What right do you have to say this about me?

You think you will look cool if you do that? confused.gif

Kristian.
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#19

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Kaydee. @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 21:25)
When Claude escaped and the local police made no effort to put him back in jail, Love's disappearance, etc.

The narrator in the intro explains how the police thought the prisoners died.

ThatSpecialSomeone
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#20

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (ClaudeSpeedRulez @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 13:19)
If GTA III's plot was bad, then I have no words to describe San Andreas'. facedesk.gif
QUOTE
(Love being the most interesting character in game mind you)

I think that he and Asuka are the best main characters in the game.
(Claude being the best protagonist.) ph34r.gif

I agree with this SA's story wasn't perfect as well, I prefer III's story even though I like SA more. I also think that Love is one of the most interesting characters in game I liked how he always sound calm and the way how he talked..it made him very interesting character. Such a shame we don't know what happened after 2001 everybody in LC is dead or away(Donald Love). Rockstar should put better explanation for his escape it doesn't make sense how someone that powerful as Love was left LC without any explanation. That makes III's story weird, everyone is dead by the end of the game who remained most powerful in the city is not clear, maybe Leone's in Portland but we don't know what happened to them since we left Portland.. Claude being hated by pretty much all of street gangs probably isn't in "charge" of LC either. That just seems weird to me...

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#21

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:08 PM

Claude being hated by almost everybody and the most powerful people being either dead or on the run are great for atmosphere of the total crime war. Donald Love and his "package" are like luggage from Ronin or Pulp Fiction. Their secret makes you think more about them. Explaining everything would ruin the fun.

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#22

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

Who was Claude still allied with at the end of the game?

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#23

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Radoonhagaydoon @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 20:11)
Who was Claude still allied with at the end of the game?

If I'm not mistaken, it's with the Yakuza, the Diablos, and the Southside Hood. The Diablos were extremely weak, and with the dead of Asuka, I don't think the Yakuza is strong anymore, unless they could get a new and competent Waka Gashira.
The Southside Hood are minor too.

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#24

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:33 PM

Diablos hate Claude.
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Irrational
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#25

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

They do? I thought they didn't because Claude helps El Burro.

I could never know, since I never went back to Portland again, it's way too dangerous in there.

Kristian.
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#26

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

I'm almost certain they attack you. I know they attack you at some point in the game, it has to be the end.

MrMateczko
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#27

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (_____ @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 21:50)
I'm almost certain they attack you. I know they attack you at some point in the game, it has to be the end.

After the mission "Uzi Rider", for the Yardies, Diablos will attack you.

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#28

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

It was R*'s first effort with dealing with a GTA game which could hold an expansive story rather than the basic feel of the earlier games.

It would make sense for it to be a bit rocky, and would give them something to improve on for the later games.

Plus, 9/11 heavily conflicted with the original story, so there's that to deal with too.

Kristian.
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#29

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE (Gary-X @ Sunday, Feb 3 2013, 01:19)
Plus, 9/11 heavily conflicted with the original story, so there's that to deal with too.

QUOTE (_____ @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 15:00)
user posted image
http://www.rockstarg...911-the-gh.html

thatstupidbug
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#30

Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

QUOTE (_____ @ Saturday, Feb 2 2013, 23:33)
QUOTE (Gary-X @ Sunday, Feb 3 2013, 01:19)
Plus, 9/11 heavily conflicted with the original story, so there's that to deal with too.

QUOTE (_____ @ Friday, Feb 1 2013, 15:00)
user posted image
http://www.rockstarg...911-the-gh.html

you know, I have 2 problems with this answer by R*:

1) it's too vague and incomplete
2) it's not totally true

First, it's vague, , like the fact that "just 1% was changed" .

For example, why just say "one mission" and NOT explain what was removed? They listed and Darkel in the manual, is it possible that they don't have a clue of (or they can't say) what lines of dialogues were removed?

they ever said "etc" in the answer, so there's more, and that make me say that the answer is "incomplete".

Second: there were more things removed. They listed

1 mission
cosmetic changes
lines of peds and dialogues
cover


but they forgot

School buses (there are quite a few screenshots, but when an user said "school buses", R* said "other stuffs is nonsense" )

ability to shoot down big airplanes (), and that's not JUST a "cosmetic" change

MISSION - blow up normal people with ice cream van (they are Mafiosi in the retail version - it's on IGN)

MISSION - use an airplane to jump over a wall/obstacle (it's on GOURANGA, based on previews)

Ok, it's always possible that those changes were made BEFORE 9/11, (except the ability to shoot down airplanes, since the trailer was closer to the release date), but the strange thing is that R* (at least in this answer) seems to not acknowledge those changes at all...plus, after all those years they are still too vague, without a clear answer for anything (one example not related to 9/11 changes...is Claude the same in GTA 2 and III? they said "who knows" and that his last name "may or may not be speed", and then some times later they just released a picture with the full name "Claude speed" on it...lack of coherence, perhaps?)
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