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Crokey
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#2791

Posted A week ago

Finally got round to seeing it tonight so I missed a lot of the initial discussion... Can somebody give me the tl;dr on why this film has been so ridiculously divisive? Wasted characters and a bit haphazardly with the lore was my guess coming out the cinema, that about accurate?

Personally speaking, I think that far too many people set their expectations far too high and were expecting answers in this film and forgetting that this is a middle part of a trilogy.  My only disappointment with The Last Jedi, was the lack of background on Snoke, but my own opinion on this film will only be complete once I've seen Episode IX.

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Tchuck
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#2792

Posted 6 days ago Edited by Tchuck, 6 days ago.

To be honest, him not being there was perfect. His goal wasn't to kill Kylo or sacrifice himself to the cause in that sort of display: his goal was to become even more legendary. In his final years he realized that the Jedi were wrong about trying to control the force, and that the rise of the empire and the sith had its roots in the Jedi doing so. The force belongs to no-one, and to everyone. Working to keep a "balance" between two sides would result in conflict over and over again.

 

If he had gone to face Kylo, he would have been utterly destroyed by the walker fire. No way any Jedi would have been able to survive that.

And even if he did survive, he would have been defeated in lightsaber duel by Kylo, either by allowing himself to be struck like Obi-wan was, or by just flat out losing as he had lost his way. 

 

But utterly humiliating Kylo? sh*t, that's simply priceless. His legend has grown even stronger now, having survived a battery of walker fire, having survived direct hit by Kylo's lightsaber, using Kylo's father's own words against him (See you around, kid), and then vanishing right before everyone's eyes, like it was no big deal, leaving people to believe that he may still be around, and far more powerful than he was. Only select members of the resistance knew where Luke even was. Everyone else has no clue he was doing some astral projection. As far as everyone else in the universe is concerned Luke, the absolute legend, suddenly appeared in the battlefield, survived a barrage of fire, survived being cut in half, told Kylo off, and then disappeared again. That's the kind of legend that creates a wave, that gets a revolution going, that inspires people, and that's what the galaxy needs to rid itself off the First Order. The democratization of the force will bring about the balance that the Jedi always dreamt about.

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MostWantedMVP
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#2793

Posted 6 days ago Edited by MostWantedMVP, 6 days ago.

There has to be more to Snoke.... all that build up in the force awakens.

 

My theory is that he's a clone of some sort, one of many. He looks dramatically different in TFA compared to TLJ.

 

b8f0c8f7ba4eb8d5c8f89625e830580f.jpg

Star-Wars-8-Snoke-Official-Photo.jpg

 

Either way, we need a f*cking explanation in Episode 9 or at least a comic series.

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#2794

Posted 5 days ago Edited by Leftist Bastard, 5 days ago.

HE'S DEAD. 

 

Seriously, there's nothing else to him. He's an effective bait and switch used to build up Kylo as the real villain of the trilogy; if he has any more secrets to tell they are plain irrelevant. He was barely in TFA.


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#2795

Posted 5 days ago

Nobody's denying that he's dead, he was sliced clean in two and we got a lovely shot of him on the floor, tongue out and everything like something out of a Tom & Jerry cartoon. What people are saying is there was too much build-up for him to have just been cut short like that. It might well have been a deliberate ploy on Disney's part to build intrigue and tease such an ultimately insignificant character, but it just feels cheap. It's like fans have put energy into anticipating the wrong thing. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it was handled in a good way at all and it feels like they changed their minds halfway through.

 

Kylo Ren is far from being a "real" villain in any sense of the word. He's been shown to be reckless, indecisive and impulsive in all the wrong ways. He's been tempted by the light so many times I would not be surprised if we saw a redemption in some way, as opposed to him just being killed outright. He showed genuine struggle in killing Han, and hesitation in attempting to kill Leia. It just comes across as weak to me.

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Leftist Bastard
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#2796

Posted 5 days ago

I think that's precisely why Kylo makes for a good villain. He makes for a genuinely unpredictable force of nature; and his arc might not be one of redemption like Vader - he is someone who is effectively choosing the dark rather than being drawn/overtaken by it. 


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#2797

Posted 5 days ago

There has to be more to Snoke.... all that build up in the force awakens.
 
My theory is that he's a clone of some sort, one of many. He looks dramatically different in TFA compared to TLJ.
 
b8f0c8f7ba4eb8d5c8f89625e830580f.jpg
Star-Wars-8-Snoke-Official-Photo.jpg
 
Either way, we need a f*cking explanation in Episode 9 or at least a comic series.

That would be awesome if it did turn out to be a clone of a clone. Snoke scars paint a not so pretty picture but with probably an endless amount of war stories. His scars are key.

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#2798

Posted 5 days ago

This is now circulating the internet,there is possibility that The Last Jedi is copied at least partially from a fan fiction story. That story was released in 2016,soon after release of episode 7. There are SPOILERS for The Last Jedi in article:

 

http://scavengershol...-the-last-jedi/

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#2799

Posted 5 days ago

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


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#2800

Posted 5 days ago

Maybe Disney will release Episode 6 and 33⅓: Society Of Snoke, chronicling the rise of Snoke to lead the first order and whatnot.

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Star-Lord
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#2801

Posted 4 days ago

This is now circulating the internet,there is possibility that The Last Jedi is copied at least partially from a fan fiction story. That story was released in 2016,soon after release of episode 7. There are SPOILERS for The Last Jedi in article:
 
http://scavengershol...-the-last-jedi/

That's right on point and makes you wonder about chapter two, where Snoke transfers into Hux's body, what if it's completely the opposite. And instead the big reveal is that Snoke is now Kylo.

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#2802

Posted 4 days ago

With all the fan-fic out there I believe it's impossible to not do ideas someone has already kind of "suggested."  I think that claim is just blow-hardness on it's flat face.

 

And it's all over the tiny fact the "Rey was sold for drinking money."  Such a small detail... someone wants to get rich off the Last Jedi who has no right to, and that's it.

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#2803

Posted 4 days ago

I have a deep feeling inside that when we find out who her parents were and what really happened to them - we are going to go ape-crazy. This is why I have allot of faith in the next and final episode. They're's two main characters that need to make cameos, which is likely to happen next and know her parents.

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#2804

Posted 4 days ago

I hope against all hope that the story told in Last Jedi is true.  I really don't want her to be related to the Skywalker or Kenobi lines, I feel like that would shrink in impossible ways the galaxy far, far away. 

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Star-Lord
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#2805

Posted 4 days ago

I hope against all hope that the story told in Last Jedi is true.  I really don't want her to be related to the Skywalker or Kenobi lines, I feel like that would shrink in impossible ways the galaxy far, far away.

I know what you're saying, and is why Rey's back history is so vital for continuity. I don't think she's Skywalker or Kenobi either, but the daughter of someone with ties to them.
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#2806

Posted 4 days ago

I'm open to anything that expands the universe.

 

That's a lie, I'm open to anything.  


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#2807

Posted 4 days ago

They should bring George Lucas back for the next one.
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#2808

Posted 4 days ago

I hope against all hope that the story told in Last Jedi is true.  I really don't want her to be related to the Skywalker or Kenobi lines, I feel like that would shrink in impossible ways the galaxy far, far away. 

That would be for the best. I like Rey but I'd like her even more if she was just a nobody from nowhere.

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Commander S
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#2809

Posted 4 days ago

I hope against all hope that the story told in Last Jedi is true.  I really don't want her to be related to the Skywalker or Kenobi lines, I feel like that would shrink in impossible ways the galaxy far, far away. 


Yeah - bit like how downright odd it is that of the two random droids on the blockade runner at the beginning of the original movie, one turned out to be from Luke's mother's (royal!) maintenance team, while the other was ...built by his father. Yanno, Darth Vader. :turn:  Who happened to be from the same (Outer Rim, off-the-beaten-track) desert planet as Luke, and...

 

(it's not even something that started with TPM, either - by the time RotJ added the 'Leia is Luke's sister, and therefore Vader's daughter' retcon, giving another twist like the Vader = dad thing from TESB, and presumably because someone had to be that "there is another" mentioned previously, the whole shebang turns the opening of the 1977 original into ...basically a family reunion... :p)

 

I fully expect that with Abrams back on board, it'll either be his 'Leia = Luke's sister' moment for Episode IX, or he'll 'mystery box' it indefinitely (or until a subsequent film/book/whatever tries to fill in the blank). Shame if that happens, though - the idea that enough notable force-sensitive people are starting to pop up again because of a change in the Force (like the inverse of how Palpatine's machinations pulled a shroud over everything, making things harder for the Jedi to function) is neat, and having Rey (and the kid) be examples of those is more satisfying, IMO, than "...huh - turns out Qui-Gon had a granddaughter!" or what-have-you.

 

(likewise, if this new resurgence in force-users leads to a new Jedi order, then fine - but I get the impression that instead, we're probably looking at a new angle to handling the Force, without the monastic trappings, strict doctrines on family and the like, and thus less likely to make the same mistakes and have the same vulnerabilities as the order of old)

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#2810

Posted 4 days ago

I think the prequels did a lot of things wrong, and they greatly shrunk the Star Wars universe.  I'm hoping "lessons were learned", but I have the self awareness to know not all share my views.

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#2811

Posted 4 days ago Edited by Commander S, 4 days ago.

I think the prequels did a lot of things wrong, and they greatly shrunk the Star Wars universe.  I'm hoping "lessons were learned", but I have the self awareness to know not all share my views.

 

 

Thing is, it's funny and just something you have to roll with when dealing with the likes of the Mirror Universe in Trek - yeah, it's ...ridiculous that a divergent parallel universe conveniently still manages to offer up equivalent tech, ships, events, and all the expected characters from each show (just eeevil! :evilgrin:), but that's why Mirror, Mirror was a done-in-one, don't-think-about-the-mechanics-too-hard episode mainly for fun (and why each trip back to the Mirror Universe stretches suspension of disbelief ever more... :p).

 

The main universe, though? Shrinking it down to a dozen key players feels like the result of ...well, name-brand recognition, I suppose. Can't have your story be about Captain Randomface or Jedi McWhoever - so instead, here's Sulu's long-lost uncle's whist partner, and the continuing adventures of Frank Windu... :turn:

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#2812

Posted 4 days ago

Thing is, it's funny and just something you have to roll with when dealing with the likes of the Mirror Universe in Trek - yeah, it's ...ridiculous that a divergent parallel universe conveniently still manages to offer up equivalent tech, ships, events, and all the expected characters from each show (just eeevil! :evilgrin:), but that's why Mirror, Mirror was a done-in-one, don't-think-about-the-mechanics-too-hard episode mainly for fun (and why each trip back to the Mirror Universe stretches suspension of disbelief ever more... :p).

In Star Trek though, the writing is good, the directing is good and the acting is good, all things I personally found lacking in the Prequels.  Again, this is just my opinion and I don't hold anyone at a lesser level for loving the prequels as I always want to expand the fanbase of these franchises.  So I do forgive a lot of things in the effort of a cool story, in terms of Star Wars, I believe I do this with both the TFA (to a lesser extent) and TLJ.  Like, come on, how fast do their ships go in hyperspace?  Seems like... warp 10 or Spore Drive, honestly, but the story was inviting and I was sucked into it.  So I do forgive.  Like Luke, sometimes you have to brush things off and disappear into the story. ;)

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#2813

Posted 4 days ago

Good point.

I still love the prequels, for explaining Kenobi and Anakin's backstories. They could of done more with Darth Maul - he was truly a badass.
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#2814

Posted 4 days ago

See, I think you can have two levels of contrivance - one being 'good writing', the other being '...not-so-good writing'. The original Mirror Universe episode is the good kind of contrivance - sure, dwell on the fact that it's extremely unlikely that the radically-different events of the MU would still wind up with a near-identical Enterprise, with the same crew complement, and the whole thing strains suspension of disbelief. But the episode doesn't dwell on it, because it's all about holding a 'mirror' (;)) up to the regular characters. It's a premise designed to set up a particular story - in the grand old sci-fi tradition, a structure that can be summed up as 'suppose _______'.

 

Meanwhile, having a brand-new character be ...so-and-so's previously-unknown relative, because that's a name folks in the audience might have heard of, or some other contrivance that's not really adding anything to the story (or makes the story worse buy falling back on rote cliché)? Yeah, not so good... Again, is anything gained by knowing that Finn actually was abducted from the Panaka family, and thus was intrinsically bound to the whole Skywalker family saga the whole time! - ? It doesn't improve the story - if anything, it's some glaring, unnecessary callback that only exists because some writers just can't stop fan-fictioning the s*** out of everything (or worse, want to add extra weight and import to their contributions to a series, by grafting it on to stuff that paid dues the old-fashion way and earned its reputation).

(...dear whoever-it-may-concern at Lucasfilm: don't read that whole 'Finn Panaka' thing and get any stupid ideas, eh? :p)

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#2815

Posted 4 days ago

I think it would be interesting if Rey was Obi Wan Kenobi's granddaughter. I openly admit I haven't followed a lot of the Star Wars prequel shows that explore Obi Wan's relationships and whatnot, but it would at least provide a plausible explanation as to why Rey is so Force-sensitive. Maybe Obi Wan's child or children were nobodies that didn't inherit his power, but they had it  as a recessive trait and passed it on to Rey. Maybe they really were just drunkard junkers.

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#2816

Posted 4 days ago

Calling it now, they're going to pull a Scooby Doo ending and Rey peels off her mask and it was Jar Jar Binks all along.

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#2817

Posted 4 days ago

Clearly Rey is Qui-Gon Jin's daughter. That's why Snoke was cut in half. The signs are all there. She was conceived like Jesus was; her mother did the nasty with Qui-Gon's ghost, and Rey was created. Her father found out, dumped the kid in Jakku, and left.

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#2818

Posted 4 days ago

The official synopsis for the Han Solo movie has been released on the official Star Wars website.

 

http://www.starwars....-story-revealed

 

I'll put it in spoiler tags, even if it is rather vague and predictable.

 

Spoiler


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#2819

Posted 4 days ago

Hmm - not that it's entirely surprising, but I'm a bit perplexed that Disney/Lucasfilm seems to be using the 'A Star Wars Story' spin-offs to do continuity plugs about 'how such-and-such happened'.

 

At this rate, the next one is going to be a Rogue One retread, but about the second Death Star, and actually showing how "many Bothans died to bring us this information". Either that, or a Boba Fett movie where we find out exactly why Vader had to insist on "no disintegrations" (and you just know that Vader will actually be involved, because heaven forbid that we can leave it as subtle as 'the guy earned a reputation for that kind of thing'... :rol:).

 

Sorry for the cynicism - I just feel that the side stories could be the perfect place to tell different kinds of Star Wars stories, bit like some of the more memorable old EU tales. For instance, how cool would it be to have a proper aviation/war story, centred around a Rebel fighter squadron between the movies (shades of the Stackpole/Allston X-Wing novels!) - ? Again, like with the 'there are only half-a-dozen important families in Star Wars' issue, I think there's something a bit reductive when the only stories we get are 'the continuing saga' or 'specific events that tie back into the continuing saga'.

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#2820

Posted 4 days ago





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