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Icarus
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#61

Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Voodoo @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 11:45)
What kind of sick f*ck shoots up an elementary school? I'm at a loss.

This sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

My heart goes out to the families. It's going to be a sad Christmas for many this year.

Chunkyman
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#62

Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 19:42)

Given the high amount of crimes lax gun control has caused

Where is the proof of this? If gun control was a method of solving crime, then surely one would find that crime rates go down after gun control laws are passed. But when the actual data is examined, no such link can be made. Virtually every flavor of gun control either has no effect on crime rates, or causes them to go up.

As for why people own guns, it's usually for self defense or hunting. Some also like them for sporting or because they're nice to collect.

The Killa
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#63

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 12:32)
QUOTE (Gtaman_92 @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 18:18)
Jesus, only in america.

You could remove to the UK.
The U.S. could remove all guns from the Police, too, to make it as safe as the UK.
Then we'd only have to worry about guns being smuggled in from Mexico.

Norway should be a safe place.

All schools 'require' visiters to report to the office first. If the staff were armed this might not happen.
"Weapons Free" areas are ever so safe!

27 dead (18 children).

It didn't take long for the mass gun murder apologist to show up. But the children weren't armed! B-but MUH FREEDOMS.

Arming everyone is such a ridiculous excuse as a solution. America has a deeply engrained and frankly psychotic gun culutre that there is a reason that Swiss style gun laws would never ever work in this country. I don't even trust my neighbor to drive their car safely, why on earth would I trust them to carry a gun in public? Sure, it might work in countries with sane people. But this is f*ckong America.

I genuinely doubt that a psychotic suicidal 20 yr old with an agenda would have said "nah I won't go through with this" because Ms Johnson the nice librarian may or may not some sh*tty 6 shooter.

It takes a real special kind of lowlife to do something like this.






Skitzo100
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#64

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:05 PM Edited by Skitzo100, 14 December 2012 - 08:21 PM.

This is really unfortunate for the people that went through this and this happened just before Christmas I mean d*mn have a heart. I wonder if this doomsday crap is behind all of this?

I also agree with stricter gun laws, but this America people here rather die than give their rifle and in the south is even worse and their excuses are recycled or lame. Sadly.

And BEFORE people here taking this too far and say that the school need room full of guns, Should think about this. My old high school also had to dealt with gun/gang violence and a few things that my school did to stop this is to install metal decters in the school main enterence and increase of security staffs, police man, security cameras, and stricter school rules. I mean it is really hard to get in the school without an I.d. Or without proof of visitation. Since then, my school gun control problem wasn't an issue no more.

Bottom line is guns isn't always the answer.

One more thing. I have feel people in this forum are going to be f*ked up and start this anti-America s*t and start degrading America like if this is the only country that is out of control. Middle East is in full civil war, North Korea can't seem to get their sh*t together.

please stop hate!

Chunkyman
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#65

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:12 PM Edited by Chunkyman, 14 December 2012 - 08:16 PM.

QUOTE (Skitzo100 @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:05)

And BEFORE people here taking this too far and say that the school need room full of guns, Should think about this.


QUOTE
Arming everyone is such a ridiculous excuse as a solution.


Why do people keep using these annoying straw-man arguments? No one is advocating that the kids should be given guns, or that the school should have some sort of secret arsenal stored away in case of emergency.

The only argument mildly related to this straw-man is repealing "gun free zone" laws, which would allow teachers to have a weapon if they chose to.

Limitless
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#66

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:14 PM Edited by Limitless, 14 December 2012 - 08:18 PM.

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 13:58)
QUOTE (Typhus @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 19:42)

Given the high amount of crimes lax gun control has caused

Where is the proof of this? If gun control was a method of solving crime, then surely one would find that crime rates go down after gun control laws are passed. But when the actual data is examined, no such link can be made. Virtually every flavor of gun control either has no effect on crime rates, or causes them to go up.

As for why people own guns, it's usually for self defense or hunting. Some also like them for sporting or because they're nice to collect.

Gun control? HA!

Most people who own guns are registered, take safety courses, and use them for self defense. I own a gun safe full of guns, half are specifically made for hunting and the other half are made
for self defense, hell we even have a shot gun loaded with non-lethal rounds so if someone do brake in they have a chance to stop before I do take their life away.

The same thing happened at a school where I live. The gunman was a bullied child who stolen a pistol from his dad and shot at his teacher. To shoot up a school you have to have a good reason,
either A your f*cking nuts or B your most likely been bullied and just every other school in the United States, they didn't do a damn thing to prevent it or even help you. People just don't wake up and
decide to go kill a couple dozen kids just cause they own a weapon. I was slightly bullied in school and when I did go for help the administration of the school didn't do a damn thing, hell if anything
they made it worst. Their things out there that drive people to do sh*t like this. I would never shoot up a school though cause I was taught at a very young age weapon safety and what they are their for.
Being from the south I was giving my first .22 at the age of 8 and killed my first deer at 9. Since then I been buying a new gun every year and hunting my whole life.

Think about this, their are criminals out their and criminals don't follow rules and laws hints the name criminals. So if they started with this gun control sh*t and put all theses laws in place and take
always weapons from people you use them like me (feeding my family and protecting them) then what will happened with the guy who don't care about the law comes braking in my house pointing a gun
at my family? Laws won't do sh*t, its the same thing with the whole legalize weed thing, they will always be a group of people who don't follow the set rules.

As for the topic, yes its very sad and all I can say is my prayers go out to the families of the ones who either died or was injured. Their will always be crazy people in the world and this is the reason we
need trained people with guns willing to use them for good.


QUOTE
Arming everyone is such a ridiculous excuse as a solution.


Everyone do not need to be armed that's the reason people die for the wrong reason, people who don't know how to use guns. Its just the right people need to be armed. I'm turning 18 on the 29th and when I'm of age I'm getting my concealed license to carry... But arming everyone isn't a solution that where people go over broad and start going over their head with the gun control thing.

golf wang
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#67

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

R.I.P. to all the victims. What a tragic crime, right before Christmas as well.

flitcroft101
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#68

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

How many more times before action will be taken against firearms? how many more motherf*cking times, how many more kids need to die? I realise someone who wants to do this could still easily access weapons but atleast put forth some effort.

R.I.P, this is f*cking tragic news.

Harley
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#69

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

Children getting shot, is there really any benefit to civilians owning guns that is worth this?

I really don't understand why or even HOW someone could shoot a child.

Chunkyman
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#70

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE (Harley @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:20)
Is there really any benefit to civilians owning guns that is worth this?


Well, there are the thousands of people every year who have defended themselves from being raped and/or murdered because they had a firearm to defend themselves.

And you also imply that prohibition works, despite the fact that prohibition always fails and usually makes things worse.

EscoLehGo
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#71

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:23)
And you also imply that prohibition works, despite the fact that prohibition always fails and usually makes things worse.

Yea, maybe with controlled substances but not so much with weapons implicitly designed to kill people.

Ninja Edit(?): Ryda King, I heard Obama just made a statement where he shed a few tears, are you prepared to voice your unadulterated opinion on this tragedy now that the prez has spoken?

WHAT!?
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#72

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 14:42)
It may seem insensitive, and I'd rather not turn this into an argument, so if someone could answer me in the simplest terms possible:
Given the high amount of crimes lax gun control has caused, what are the arguments against gun control?
Does it boil down to a simple matter of personal liberty? Or is the idea that personal gun ownership prevents the government from oppressing the people?
I'm not insulting anyone, I'm simply asking because - not to be disrespectful - but owning guns seems, at best, dangerous and, at worst, severely irresponsible.
I'd just like to understand why people want such awful weapons.

We have gun control in place now. Laws exist that require that a person submit to a background check when purchasing a firearm.

If you wish to carry that firearm you have to test and pass a certification that allows you to do so. You must not have any history of mental illness before your score on that test or the fact that you went to a class even matters.

When you are transporting a gun it must be locked in a case unloaded in the boot of your vehicle. If you keep a gun in the home it is required to be in a safe or at least have a trigger lock.

I'd say the measures we have are pretty reasonable. The problem is unreasonable people. Laws only affect those who chose to abide by them. Since criminals do not and there are as many sources of illegal guns as there are illegal narcotics it is foolish to presume prohibition is going to hurt anyone other then the law abiding population.

It's the old argument of ban guns and only the criminals will have them.

To further the example we have laws against breaking into homes. Come to my door and find it locked. You know you can't enter so you leave. A criminal just breaks the glass. The protection of law is an illusion. Harder gun control will do nothing to solve the issue.

Adler
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#73

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

The horrid things people are really capable of. confused.gif

Nebby
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#74

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

When did this turn into a Debates & Discussion thread, anyway? Can we all take a break from this political nonsense and have some remorse for the real matter of discussion? Eighteen children are dead right now; and two weeks before Christmas at that. C'mon guys.

Limitless
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#75

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 14:23)
QUOTE (Harley @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:20)
Is there really any benefit to civilians owning guns that is worth this?


Well, there are the thousands of people every year who have defended themselves from being raped and/or murdered because they had a firearm to defend themselves.

And you also imply that prohibition works, despite the fact that prohibition always fails and usually makes things worse.

My dad had to pull out a gun once to protect him and my family, guy was trying to brake in was armed with a razor blade.

If he didn't have a gun I know it would of been was worst scene. Of course he didn't use one round but showing that gun scared the sh*t out of the guy trying to brake in.

I don't see why civilians can't have guns if they have them registered, took hunting or weapons safety courses, and the whole nine yards of owning a weapon legally.


What!?, thanks for pointing that out. icon14.gif

MIKON8ERISBACK
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#76

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

My question is how far have we fallen as a society and is it possible for us to any lower? I fear that one day this will become accepted as the norm just like high school shootings and shootings on the street. I'm listening to WPLR 99.1 FM; a classic rock station in New Haven that covers the Newtown area. They were pulling the audio feed of a local TV station just minutes ago but went back to "regular programming" (music).

http://www.wplr.com/...own-conn/nTWsf/

F4L?
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#77

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

Gee, I sure am glad that I've finished school, not really that interested in getting shot to be honest. Usually I don't care about this stuff, but this one bothered me a little, pretty f*cked up.

TheKryptonite
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#78

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

I believe one of the brother's shooters were found dead.

Chunk
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#79

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

Truly shocking news. Thoughts with the victim's families and the young witnesses.

Stig
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#80

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE (What!? @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:28)
It's the old argument of ban guns and only the criminals will have them.


It's true though, I know exactly where I could go right now and buy un-serialed 9mm's with NO paper work NO background checks and NO worry of the law. Just have to use cold hard cash.

Make all guns illegal, we'll all be safe then! Damn, where have I heard that before... "Make all drugs illegal, we'll all be safe then!"

Dumb mother f*ckers will never get the point that taking away something from people only means they'll get it from somewhere else.


Chunkyman
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#81

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (EscoLehGo @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:28)

Yea, maybe with controlled substances but not so much with weapons implicitly designed to kill people.

When you make something in demand illegal, the only thing you create is a black market for the product. The government does not have magical powers, the intentions of laws do not equal results. The results of prohibition are always the formation of criminal enterprises that arise to meet the demands of people wanting the illegal items.

And since the vast, overwhelming majority of people who own guns aren't dangerous, what gives one the right to forcibly take away their possessions under the threat of imprisonment?

Sizeway
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#82

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

I'm so sick of this world! AHHHH Why? Why Children Why?!

Limitless
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#83

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

QUOTE (Sizeway @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 14:41)
I'm so sick of this world! AHHHH Why? Why Children Why?!

Generations are changing and people don't value life anymore. Alot of careless people out their who are gun slinging psychopaths. dontgetit.gif

EscoLehGo
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#84

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:38)
QUOTE (EscoLehGo @ Friday, Dec 14 2012, 20:28)

Yea, maybe with controlled substances but not so much with weapons implicitly designed to kill people.

When you make something in demand illegal, the only thing you create is a black market for the product. The government does not have magical powers, the intentions of laws do not equal results. The results of prohibition are always the formation of criminal enterprises that arise to meet the demands of people wanting the illegal items.

And since the vast, overwhelming majority of people who own guns aren't dangerous, what gives one the right to forcibly take away their possessions under the threat of imprisonment?

I understand what you mean and I don't want to get into a big thing with you about it because I've seen you debate this before and quite frankly you're much more versed on the subject than I am. I just don't think the prohibition of guns can be equated to the prohibition of drugs and alcohol which we have seen and can still actively see worsens the situation, creates more violence and increases the prison population more than it does anything else. I probably have an over simplified view of gun control as it is, but as I see it I think this is something that should be regulated on a state level.

People will always want to get drunk and high or seek altered states of reality but I don't think many people feel the want or need to carry concealed, deadly weapons around other than a certain segment of the population who already do and are very vocal about it. You know what I mean, Joe? The black markets that are created aren't the same in my opinion.

Pat
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#85

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

All of you debating firearm control should feel ashamed. It's not even been a full day since the shooting, can you at least try to control yourselves? This is in reference to both sides of the argument, by the way.

My condolences to the families. This whole situation is an absolute tragedy.

Raavi
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#86

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

As I stated multiple times in the past we currently live in a dystopia where these things are rule rather than exception.

agent17
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#87

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

The worst part about this is all of the assumptions the media is jumping to, like posting someone's Facebook page who wasn't connected to the shooting at all.

Just imagine having the entire country attack you just because CNN said you were a murderer.

Kirsty
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#88

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

A hard-hitting address from Obama. This is something a parent can never get over.

It's been confirmed that 20 children and 6 adults have died, plus the gunman. There's also reports that his mother and father have been killed in separate places.

Original Light
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#89

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

It's hard to believe this happened only an hour away from where I live.
What's wrong with people?
Imagine how the parents feel, and right around the holidays too...
To be honest, I don't feel safe anymore.
Those kids will never open the gifts their parents bought them... It's really sad.

Ryda King
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#90

Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

Those kids were just going to school like any other day. Seeing their friends. Now they're never going home. Their parents won't cook dinner for them anymore or tuck them into their beds or watch them grow up. They won't see their friends anymore. Their teachers won't teach them things anymore. They won't get to experience life.

This just really got to me. I honestly never cry but I did today.




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