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Mefris
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#31

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE (Diecontrollersdie @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:10)
QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:05)
QUOTE
Some of the best mods in any games are those that allow you to kill children[...]


........what?

ITS JUST A GAME, If you can't stand it then go cry or leave gaming.

YOU'RE JUST AN IDIOT if you can't stand it take a gun and shoot yourself or leave this forum.

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#32

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM Edited by Lightning Strike, 04 December 2012 - 03:33 AM.

QUOTE (Kuunkulta @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:19)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:02)
QUOTE (stevechilds @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:52)
QUOTE (Kuunkulta @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:50)
While I 100% agree that it's just pixels, it is a very sensitive subject at the moment... There have been many school shootings around the globe lately and many children die as casualties in the current wars.. If the world was a peaceful place where all children could grow in peace we might have kill-able children in games. Simply because it wouldn't relate to real life. But the fact that it does relate to real world problems makes it a huge taboo that in commercial games is probably best left untouched.

.
cookie.gif

op needs to evaluate himself

Not really.

@Kuunkulta, I understand were you're coming from man, and most of it makes sense - what does not make sense however, is the complete and utter bullsh*t the gaming industry's being handed in this case. We've seen kids die in movies it happens a lot now, for prime examples I'd include the Alien vs Predator sequal.

The film may have been terrible, but in the first five minutes a ten year old kid had his face sucked off and his chest blown open, what makes even less sense is that this film only got a 15 age rating. Any game (and I mean literally any game) that would try to even pull half of what that film did would get banned in multiple countries the day it was announced.

Aye movies do get away with a lot more, no-one can deny that. But I believe it's because the watcher doesn't control the killing. What I basically mean is, the non-gaming public generally see games as simulators of sort and to them, a child-killing-simulator is the worst thing since Hitler. It's just because people don't know better and don't think rationally.

It took a long time before killing children became.. krhm "acceptable" in movies. Games are still relatively new phenomenon and it will take time for people to accept it like they accept movies.

Now this is ofc just my interpretation of the subject.

It's an interpretation that I agree with, however pressing a button on a controller to perform an action/animation that's already been scripted and that the player has no control over doesn't seem too different from pressing the play button on a TV remote and watching a death scene.

The only difference is the fact that in one the player gets to an extent choose how often the event would happen, though I doubt any of us here would go out and intentionally hunt children - in fact, with each passing GTA I seem to kill less and less pedestrians, the only ones I actually remember killing in IV were due to them being in the way of either my car or my gun.

In Red Dead I can't really recall killing any pedestrians but that wasn't really the point of that game whereas GTA's built it's name allowing you and in some cases coercing you into just testing the game and it's limits, which is one of the reasons that I think if children are to be included in GTA V, they should be kill-able. The world around you becomes as fake as a plastic football when you realize that the game's stopping you from interacting and toying with it.

@ Staten

No, when I say the "feel" I mean the fact that the game seems more alive then it did before. Having playgrounds filled with children and schools and colleges with kids and teens hanging outside them would bring a sense of "authenticity" to the game that's not been seen before.

It's why I thought that the kids in both Assassin's Creed III and Skyrim were so, interesting, sure they annoyed you at times but their appearance in the game only helped me further immerse myself in the universe's presence. I just can't play GTA and "feel" like I'm playing as the character themselves when there's not a single parent to be found in the cities were sex, drugs and crime are intergral to the games story telling and at least in some cases existence.

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#33

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:31 AM

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:22)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:06)
QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:05)
QUOTE
Some of the best mods in any games are those that allow you to kill children[...]


........what?

Well y'know, particularly annoying ones like Mcreary ..... and I'm not the only one who thinks so, the video has something like two hundred thousand views.

I fail to see how that justifies killing children....ANY children.When you'll grow up and have "annoying" children of your own you come and tell me otherwise (in which case I'll notify child's services).

I know this will sound absurd considering we're on a forum dedicated to a game in which you can kill anyone/anything but everything you wrote is just f*cked up.

But you see, kids of out own are made of flesh and blood. They are ours. The only thing stopping us from killing others is:

1- Our love for our kids and the idea of losing them then thinking about the feelings of other parnets.
2- Reason- I will shot a kid if he was killing other kids and adults. Maybe I will aim for the legs but I will still shot. I lack the reason to shot normal kids or adults in my day to day life.
3- The law- for some crazy people anyway.

Can you prove that kids in video games are alive? Do they feel pain? Does their family cry when they die?

If you can, thus proves two things:

1- Game coders are gods.
2- I am wrong.

As harsh and crazy my posts sounds, it is true.

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#34

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:35 AM

No. Children. Ever.
Go kill a possum or something.

Kuunkulta
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#35

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:35 AM Edited by Kuunkulta, 04 December 2012 - 03:38 AM.

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:28)
QUOTE (Kuunkulta @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:19)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:02)
QUOTE (stevechilds @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:52)
QUOTE (Kuunkulta @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:50)
While I 100% agree that it's just pixels, it is a very sensitive subject at the moment... There have been many school shootings around the globe lately and many children die as casualties in the current wars.. If the world was a peaceful place where all children could grow in peace we might have kill-able children in games. Simply because it wouldn't relate to real life. But the fact that it does relate to real world problems makes it a huge taboo that in commercial games is probably best left untouched.

.
cookie.gif

op needs to evaluate himself

Not really.

@Kuunkulta, I understand were you're coming from man, and most of it makes sense - what does not make sense however, is the complete and utter bullsh*t the gaming industry's being handed in this case. We've seen kids die in movies it happens a lot now, for prime examples I'd include the Alien vs Predator sequal.

The film may have been terrible, but in the first five minutes a ten year old kid had his face sucked off and his chest blown open, what makes even less sense is that this film only got a 15 age rating. Any game (and I mean literally any game) that would try to even pull half of what that film did would get banned in multiple countries the day it was announced.

Aye movies do get away with a lot more, no-one can deny that. But I believe it's because the watcher doesn't control the killing. What I basically mean is, the non-gaming public generally see games as simulators of sort and to them, a child-killing-simulator is the worst thing since Hitler. It's just because people don't know better and don't think rationally.

It took a long time before killing children became.. krhm "acceptable" in movies. Games are still relatively new phenomenon and it will take time for people to accept it like they accept movies.

Now this is ofc just my interpretation of the subject.

It's an interpretation that I agree with, however pressing a button on a controller to perform an action/animation that's already been scripted and that the player has no control over doesn't seem too different from pressing the play button on a TV remote and watching a death scene.

The only difference is the fact that in one the player gets to an extent choose how often the event would happen, though I doubt any of us here would go out and intentionally hunt children - in fact, with each passing GTA I seem to kill less and less pedestrians, the only ones I actually remember killing in IV were due to them being in the way of either my car or my gun.

In Red Dead I can't really recall killing any pedestrians but that wasn't really the point of that game whereas GTA's built it's name allowing you and in some cases coercing you into just testing the game and it's limits, which is one of the reasons that I think if children are to be included in GTA V, they should be kill-able. The world around you becomes as fake as a plastic football when you realize that the game's stopping you from interacting and toying with it.

Indeed that is how we gamers see games. They are just that, games. Ones and zeroes that don't differ so much from movies. But how do non-gamers see games? What I'm getting at, is that people are still ignorant of games and see them as more real than movies. It's not entirely rational thinking especially as most who argue against games haven't given them the same fair trial as they give for movies. People just aren't rational and that's why games don't have all the same privileges as movies do, YET.

And by no means am I supporting this ignorant thinking, I do agree that children in games, killable or not, do add to the immersion!

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#36

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:22)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:06)
QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:05)
QUOTE
Some of the best mods in any games are those that allow you to kill children[...]


........what?

Well y'know, particularly annoying ones like Mcreary ..... and I'm not the only one who thinks so, the video has something like two hundred thousand views.

I fail to see how that justifies killing children....ANY children.When you'll grow up and have "annoying" children of your own you come and tell me otherwise (in which case I'll notify child's services).

I know this will sound absurd considering we're on a forum dedicated to a game in which you can kill anyone/anything but everything you wrote is just f*cked up.

I've stated many times that it doesn't need to be justified. If I can kill a hundred old women in a game, nuke a village or blow up a planet without needing any sort of justification then why does the killing of children need to be justified. I can do pretty much anything in video games but the moment it comes to something touchy like this people go all crazy and stupid and start looking for justification for the feature.

I've justified it pretty well in my previous posts seeing as it adds layers and depths of detail that's unheard of in video games - and if there's one thing that R* like it's authenticity, the kids don't necessarily even need to be kill-able, though it would remove the point of having them in the game in the first place but still.

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#37

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:40 AM

I hope we can break character and beat michaels family up. I would laugh at that

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#38

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:40 AM

I don't get why some people want to kill kids so badly. Why would you get satisfaction from killing an in-game child? I'm not debating the morals, but the fact that some people are so fixated on getting killable kids in the game is kind of weird. Anyways, I don't think it would be worth having killable kids in GTA due to all the controversy it would cause, it could be fatal to the series. For those reasons, I think it's best they leave killable kids out of the game.

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#39

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

QUOTE (Kuunkulta @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:50)
While I 100% agree that it's just pixels, it is a very sensitive subject at the moment... There have been many school shootings around the globe lately and many children die as casualties in the current wars.. If the world was a peaceful place where all children could grow in peace we might have kill-able children in games. Simply because it wouldn't relate to real life. But the fact that it does relate to real world problems makes it a huge taboo that in commercial games is probably best left untouched.

I agree with this 100% All it takes is a mad nutcase saying this game inspired him/her to kill a bunch of children and then videogame companies as a whole would get publicity that the companies do not want.

Mefris
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#40

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

Again....what?A child in a video game is still a child.There is nothing anyone can say or do that will change this.Also,there's a difference between being annoying and being a mass murder.I'd kill anyone that would harm my kids on purpose,including children,but I can't say my favourite pass time is hunting little kids,even in video games.

This thread is getting more disturbing by the minute....

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#41

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

I can see the Fox headline already..
"Child-killing simulator now available in all retail stores"

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#42

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:16)
I personally wouldn't mind them being invincible, as long as they're present in the game it doesn't matter

Seriously, No! Thats worse than being able to kill children.. Anyone remember the annoying bastards in Fallout??
No wonder modders made a mod to kill them.

If GTA V has children and they're invincible.. f*ck me, It'll be one sad day!

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#43

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:52 AM

QUOTE (jrdn7730 @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:45)
I can see the Fox headline already..
"Child-killing simulator now available in all retail stores"

So every flying simulator is, in fact, a 9/11 simulator because one guy hit a building?


That is retarded logic right there. R* gave you the weapon [Plane] to kill enemies. If you killed a ped [Hit a building], does that mean R* gave you the weapon to kill peds? Hell no!

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#44

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:54 AM

QUOTE (golf wang @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:40)
I don't get why some people want to kill kids so badly. Why would you get satisfaction from killing an in-game child? I'm not debating the morals, but the fact that some people are so fixated on getting killable kids in the game is kind of weird. Anyways, I don't think it would be worth having killable kids in GTA due to all the controversy it would cause, it could be fatal to the series. For those reasons, I think it's best they leave killable kids out of the game.

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:16)
Once again, I'd like to stress the fact that I'm not desperate (Oh yeah kids ! now to find inventive ways to kill them ... not my normal reaction to seeing children, either in reality or in gaming ...) to kill children. It just seems that game lacks a certain ... "feel" without them being present.

I personally wouldn't mind them being invincible, as long as they're present in the game it doesn't matter - I can understand it seems like a minor detail but it gives the game - whatever it may be - a certain depth that games without kids just cannot seem to grasp.


I think your view on this has already been discussed.

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:42)
Again....what?A child in a video game is still a child.There is nothing anyone can say or do that will change this.Also,there's a difference between being annoying and being a mass murder.I'd kill anyone that would harm my kids on purpose,including children,but I can't say my favourite pass time is hunting little kids,even in video games.

This thread is getting more disturbing by the minute....


Well, you're wrong on almost everyone account, a child in a video game isn't a child - it's a bunch of code programmed to look and behave similarly to one. In games we kill people all the time for being "annoying" and I've already mentioned how pretty much nobody's going to go and "hunt" children.

A clear example of the fact that we kill people simply for being annoying in games is this guy he's been killed in nearly everyones game saves and there have even been discussions on what ways are the most inventive to kill him ... did I mention he's seventeen ?

You see, morals aren't something video games rely on - if they did rely on them we'd be playing a lot of boring games " do you want to steal the bus or take a ride and pay your bus fare and sit next to that old lady and keep her company" *Selects steal option* "You naughty, naughty man. We know you don't actually want to do that so we've selected the other option for you" ... See what I mean ?.

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#45

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:55 AM

This topic is lighting up like popcorn on hot oil.

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#46

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:56 AM

QUOTE (Kifflom112 @ Monday, Dec 3 2012, 21:55)
This topic is lighting up like popcorn on hot oil.

That sounds pretty good right now.

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#47

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:56 AM

Anything younger than Michael's kids is just asking for the game to be banned. If you guys want to hurt kids so bad you need serious help TBH...

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#48

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

Why on earth would GTA have kids?
What other absurd thoughts have you been having op?
GTA strongly involves in adult themes I repeat ADULT themes!
Op should we also include pregnant women?Should we include teenage prostitutes as well?
How about with have a mission where Michael commits domestic violence on his wife, I mean it is realistic.



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#49

Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:39)
QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:22)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:06)
QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:05)
QUOTE
Some of the best mods in any games are those that allow you to kill children[...]


........what?

Well y'know, particularly annoying ones like Mcreary ..... and I'm not the only one who thinks so, the video has something like two hundred thousand views.

I fail to see how that justifies killing children....ANY children.When you'll grow up and have "annoying" children of your own you come and tell me otherwise (in which case I'll notify child's services).

I know this will sound absurd considering we're on a forum dedicated to a game in which you can kill anyone/anything but everything you wrote is just f*cked up.

I've stated many times that it doesn't need to be justified. If I can kill a hundred old women in a game, nuke a village or blow up a planet without needing any sort of justification then why does the killing of children need to be justified. I can do pretty much anything in video games but the moment it comes to something touchy like this people go all crazy and stupid and start looking for justification for the feature.

I've justified it pretty well in my previous posts seeing as it adds layers and depths of detail that's unheard of in video games - and if there's one thing that R* like it's authenticity, the kids don't necessarily even need to be kill-able, though it would remove the point of having them in the game in the first place but still.

Don't deviate from the subject.Our issue is about killing children in video games not about children BEING in video games.Yes,killing children needs justification because it's a (major) Taboo in every culture around the world and I fail to see what it would bring to the table other then a scandal for R*.That's why R* would never consider adding killable children in it's video games.

It's obvious you're still a child but I think you should know by now that the farthest thing from a parent's mind is killing children.That's why I say "Hell no!" to this.




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#50

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:01 AM

QUOTE (matt19811 @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 02:42)
i would want to slit micheals son's throat but killing an infant would be boring. Slapping the sh*t of micheals daughter would be fun. I think micheals son is younger then his daughter, which seems like the perfect minimum ages for a girl and a boy in the game anywhere. Anything younger seems pointless. Younger kids would only be a pain in the ass and boring.

.....never have kids ok? Just NEVER conceive a child.

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#51

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:01 AM Edited by Lightning Strike, 04 December 2012 - 04:08 AM.

QUOTE (Raynos @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:50)
QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:16)
I personally wouldn't mind them being invincible, as long as they're present in the game it doesn't matter

Seriously, No! Thats worse than being able to kill children.. Anyone remember the annoying bastards in Fallout??
No wonder modders made a mod to kill them.

If GTA V has children and they're invincible.. f*ck me, It'll be one sad day!

No, of course we don't remember .....

Also ...

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:28)

It's an interpretation that I agree with, however pressing a button on a controller to perform an action/animation that's already been scripted and that the player has no control over doesn't seem too different from pressing the play button on a TV remote and watching a death scene.

The only difference is the fact that in one the player gets to an extent choose how often the event would happen, though I doubt any of us here would go out and intentionally hunt children - in fact, with each passing GTA I seem to kill less and less pedestrians, the only ones I actually remember killing in IV were due to them being in the way of either my car or my gun.

In Red Dead I can't really recall killing any pedestrians but that wasn't really the point of that game whereas GTA's built it's name allowing you and in some cases coercing† you into just testing the game and it's limits, which is one of the reasons that I think if children are to be included in GTA V, they should be kill-able. The world around you becomes as fake as a plastic football when you realize that the game's stopping you from interacting and toying with it.


@ Mefris, buddy you seem to be falling behind !

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:54)
=

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:42)
Again....what?A child in a video game is still a child.There is nothing anyone can say or do that will change this.Also,there's a difference between being annoying and being a mass murder.I'd kill anyone that would harm my kids on purpose,including children,but I can't say my favourite pass time is hunting little kids,even in video games.

This thread is getting more disturbing by the minute....


Well, you're wrong on almost everyone account, a child in a video game isn't a child - it's a bunch of code programmed to look and behave similarly to one. In games we kill people all the time for being "annoying" and I've already mentioned how pretty much nobody's going to go and "hunt" children.

A clear example of the fact that we kill people simply for being annoying in games is this guy he's been killed in nearly everyone's game saves and there have even been discussions on what ways are the most inventive to kill him ... did I mention he's seventeen ?

You see, morals aren't something video games rely on - if they did rely on them we'd be playing a lot of boring games " do you want to steal the bus or take a ride and pay your bus fare and sit next to that old lady and keep her company" *Selects steal option* "You naughty, naughty man. We know you don't actually want to do that so we've selected the other option for you" ... See what I mean ?.


Also, films, movies and books can contain adult themes. Adult themes do not mean that there are themes directly related towards material of an explicit nature and the person viewing/reading/playing it may need to be a little older to better comprehend it's themes, this does not however mean that the whatever material the item contains things that are only based and centered around adults.

Lastly, I'd hardly consider myself a "child" as in less then two days I'll legally be an adult. Not that there's anything I can't do now that you can.

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#52

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:01 AM

QUOTE (stevechilds @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 03:59)
Why on earth would GTA have kids?
What other absurd thoughts have you been having op?
GTA strongly involves in adult themes I repeat ADULT themes!
Op should we also include pregnant women?Should we include teenage prostitutes as well?
How about with have a mission where Michael commits domestic violence on his wife, I mean it is realistic.

This.

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#53

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:03 AM

Op would you rather Activistion or EA add child soldiers in their first person shooter games?


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#54

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:08 AM

QUOTE
Well, you're wrong on almost everyone account, a child in a video game isn't a child - it's a bunch of code programmed to look and behave similarly to one. In games we kill people all the time for being "annoying" and I've already mentioned how pretty much nobody's going to go and "hunt" children.

...which doesn't help your case in anyway.A video game child is still a child.
QUOTE
did I mention he's seventeen ?

You got this idea from...?

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#55

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

QUOTE (stevechilds @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 04:03)
Op would you rather Activistion or EA add child soldiers in their first person shooter games?

BO2 did that in Africa because it is realistic but their must be some kind of a handicapp on child soldiers. Canít aim well and stuff.

I see many kids in cities myself. GTA is based on modern cities, no?

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#56

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 04:08)
QUOTE
Well, you're wrong on almost everyone account, a child in a video game isn't a child - it's a bunch of code programmed to look and behave similarly to one. In games we kill people all the time for being "annoying" and I've already mentioned how pretty much nobody's going to go and "hunt" children.

...which doesn't help your case in anyway.A video game child is still a child.

Why are you killing human adults in video games then? Are not they human?

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#57

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

QUOTE (Mefris @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 04:08)
QUOTE
Well, you're wrong on almost everyone accAnount, a child in a video game isn't a child - it's a bunch of code programmed to look and behave similarly to one. In games we kill people all the time for being "annoying" and I've already mentioned how pretty much nobody's going to go and "hunt" children.

...which doesn't help your case in anyway.A video game child is still a child.
QUOTE
did I mention he's seventeen ?

You got this idea from...?

No it's not, it's numbers and code. Scale it up a bit and you've got yourself a dwarf, switch a few lines around and you've got a bearded mermaid. It's simply code, we're not debating artificial intelligence here we're debating if children should be included in video games.

And what do you mean "You got this idea from ?" that makes no sense. It's said in the lore of the game he's a teenager - this is noted by the guy who made him in a FO3 interview in which the bloke says that the annoying guy from Little Lamplight that you've got to escort to Big Town is based entirely off of the annoying fan in Oblivion, even the voice actor has reprized his role ... so yeah.

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#58

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:15 AM

Simple because adult humans know what the world around them is like. A child has no grasp at the world from a large scale.

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#59

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:16 AM

Damn! Watching this thread blow up is interesting! *eats virtual popcorn*

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#60

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:17 AM

QUOTE (Crazyman2389 @ Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 04:15)
Simple because adult humans know what the world around them is like. A child has no grasp at the world from a large scale.

Yes and that matters does it, y'know since animals have been included in the game your point is null and void since they know about the same amount as baby.




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