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Driving physics

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Poll: Do you think Rockstar is making the right choice by changing the driving physics? (171 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Rockstar is making the right choice by changing the driving physics?

  1. Yes (108 votes [65.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.06%

  2. No (15 votes [9.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.04%

  3. Doesn't make a difference to me (9 votes [5.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.42%

  4. Concerned, but willing to give R* benefit of the doubt (34 votes [20.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.48%

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golf wang
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#1

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

I am one of those who support Rockstar in changing the driving physics. The physics in IV were way ahead of those in the III-era, yes. However, the traction of the cars got unnecessarily annoying at times and I hope Rockstar fixes this in V. Any thoughts? Discuss.

libertyboyz
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#2

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

i liked the handling in iv

theomenofficial
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#3

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:53 AM

I think they are making the right choice.
Although I liked IVs driving.

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#4

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

How can we even know? They obviously think they've improved the driving physics, they wouldn't be implementing them if it took away from the driving experience. So I think it's the right idea and it will be an improvement, GTA IV handling wasn't exactly flawless.

Symbiote Venom
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#5

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

I wont know till I see it or play it

j.hunt
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#6

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

probably the only point of the Gi preview that worried me a little bit because i thought that the IV driving psychs were awesome.

golf wang
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#7

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE (j.hunt @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 02:57)
probably the only point of the Gi preview that worried me a little bit because i thought that the IV driving psychs were awesome.

They were good but at times it felt like driving on ice, the car would slip and slide around so goddamn much, lol. There is definite room for improvement IMO.

Blackous666
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#8

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:00 AM

i really hope it wont end up like saints row or sleeping dogs

TheQuestfor100Percent
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#9

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

Although I loved the way IV's handling was, I doubt any changes are going to be very dramatic. He says it feels more like a racing game, not that its a driving simulator. Judging by how the cars are acting in the trailer, they are still a little boat like. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

golf wang
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#10

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE (Blackous666 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 03:00)
i really hope it wont end up like saints row or sleeping dogs

This forum hates those games so much. lol.gif

j.hunt
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#11

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

yeah, they will obviously add more grip hence it will be more hard to spin or crash, hopefully that won't affect the other parameters of the driving physics

Blackous666
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#12

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE (golf wang @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 12:09)
QUOTE (Blackous666 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 03:00)
i really hope it wont end up like saints row or sleeping dogs

This forum hates those games so much. lol.gif

i dont hate saints row... but that driving mechanics SUCKS wink.gif

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#13

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:20 AM Edited by faizanali, 10 November 2012 - 11:26 AM.

I voted "NO" but the only way to find out is to watch the Trailer 2, The cars did looked glued to the ground in Trailer 1, If they did took that Saints Row or Sleeping Dogs step then suicidal.gif

K^2
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#14

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

With apologies to the OP, I think this can go either way. There were plenty of things to improve with IV's driving physics, but GI preview makes it sound almost like they are going for a more arcade feel, which would be rather unfortunate. If they merely improve on the physics and code better parameters for sports cars, it can be wonderful. If they turn it into Burnout physics, I'd be disappointed.

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#15

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

At first I was a little unsure but once I heard the words 'boat-like' I knew exactly what they were talking about.

Looks like they're doing the right thing, I know what they mean and they're only going to improve it, they aren't stupid.

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#16

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (K^2 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 11:20)
With apologies to the OP, I think this can go either way. There were plenty of things to improve with IV's driving physics, but GI preview makes it sound almost like they are going for a more arcade feel, which would be rather unfortunate. If they merely improve on the physics and code better parameters for sports cars, it can be wonderful. If they turn it into Burnout physics, I'd be disappointed.

There was a similar thread yesterday, one reply claimed that "GTAIV's driving physics were perfect".

Erm, no, no they weren't.

I hope that there's more realism in the lateral G thresholds, my own RWD car will slide and power out but in GTAIV you hit a kind of soggy wall and lose the momentum.

If that's improved in GTAV then I'd be very pleased... but if they go even more Arcade then that would be an unfortunate and retrograde step.

faizanali
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#17

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

QUOTE (TenEightyOne @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 11:24)
QUOTE (K^2 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 11:20)
With apologies to the OP, I think this can go either way. There were plenty of things to improve with IV's driving physics, but GI preview makes it sound almost like they are going for a more arcade feel, which would be rather unfortunate. If they merely improve on the physics and code better parameters for sports cars, it can be wonderful. If they turn it into Burnout physics, I'd be disappointed.

There was a similar thread yesterday, one reply claimed that "GTAIV's driving physics were perfect".

Erm, no, no they weren't.

I hope that there's more realism in the lateral G thresholds, my own RWD car will slide and power out but in GTAIV you hit a kind of soggy wall and lose the momentum.

If that's improved in GTAV then I'd be very pleased... but if they go even more Arcade then that would be an unfortunate and retrograde step.

I replied that, They are Perfect indeed.

K^2
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#18

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

QUOTE (faizanali @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:27)
I replied that, They are Perfect indeed.

As a professional physicist I can say, no, the physics was not perfect. It was pretty good, especially for every day sort of cars. But it can stand to be improved on. Tire, suspension, engine, and damage models could all be improved. It would make the biggest difference to the sports cars.

Yes, people who complained that cars were too "heavy" probably have no experience driving a car at its limit. In that sense, cars behaved like real cars would. But the physics was... most descriptive word I can use is "soft". Just right for an SUV or a minivan, but a sports car should feel a little more "rigid" on the road.

I think, anybody who ever drove a car with sport suspension and sport tires will understand what I mean.

golf wang
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#19

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (K^2 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 03:33)
QUOTE (faizanali @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:27)
I replied that, They are Perfect indeed.

As a professional physicist I can say, no, the physics was not perfect. It was pretty good, especially for every day sort of cars. But it can stand to be improved on. Tire, suspension, engine, and damage models could all be improved. It would make the biggest difference to the sports cars.

Yes, people who complained that cars were too "heavy" probably have no experience driving a car at its limit. In that sense, cars behaved like real cars would. But the physics was... most descriptive word I can use is "soft". Just right for an SUV or a minivan, but a sports car should feel a little more "rigid" on the road.

I think, anybody who ever drove a car with sport suspension and sport tires will understand what I mean.

Driving mini-vans and stuff in IV felt pretty true to life, which was a good thing. But every time I hopped in a sports car, I cringed at how sloppy and not the rigid the handling was, especially the marshmallow suspension, it just did not fit a sports car.

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#20

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

We don't know in which direction they're going to change it, and the statement in Game Informer's preview is vague. I'm on the camp that supports the heavy weight car physics in IV, and as a long-time driver and traveler, I find it realistic enough with each car having its own handling weight. It was really fun to drive in Liberty City and it would more fun to take that experience to a vaster and more open world. I had the same fun driving in MAFIA II, but in games like L.A.Noire, it was very, very boring to drive as cars didn't have any weight to them.

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#21

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

When they said "high level racing game" I assume a good racing sim, which are the most best simulators so that should be the best kind of realism in the bag. So yes.

This is one of the best pieces of info from the preview to me.

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#22

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:43 AM

No. IV had it realistic enough

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#23

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (K^2 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 11:33)
QUOTE (faizanali @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:27)
I replied that, They are Perfect indeed.

As a professional physicist I can say, no, the physics was not perfect. It was pretty good, especially for every day sort of cars. But it can stand to be improved on. Tire, suspension, engine, and damage models could all be improved. It would make the biggest difference to the sports cars.

Yes, people who complained that cars were too "heavy" probably have no experience driving a car at its limit. In that sense, cars behaved like real cars would. But the physics was... most descriptive word I can use is "soft". Just right for an SUV or a minivan, but a sports car should feel a little more "rigid" on the road.

I think, anybody who ever drove a car with sport suspension and sport tires will understand what I mean.

RAGE has Euphoria which is a part of the Engine, Euphoria is only used in Body Animation, The rest of the things are powered by Bullet Physics™, That also includes the Driving Physics, Bullet Physics™ is a very successful project and is still improving day by day, Please im not going show that im more intelligent then you are but you just have to agree that Driving Physics in GTA IV were the finest in any Open World Video Game at its time in 2008, I really wish they don't make it like Saints Row or Sleeping Dogs, I JUST Dont know they ALL FEEL THE SAME, That is why GTA IV separates itself from other games. If they werent intended into GTA IV THEY WOULD ALL FEEL THE SAME.

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#24

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

I don't necessarily know if its the right decision or not, but im happy because its gonna be new, a step forward for the series that it desperately needed after IV. Or could be a step back, who knows..

K^2
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#25

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (rare.steak @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:41)
When they said "high level racing game" I assume a good racing sim

That's what I hope for, but the statement is extremely vague. He might be referencing latest NFS games, for all we know.

j.hunt
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#26

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

QUOTE (K^2 @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 11:47)
QUOTE (rare.steak @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:41)
When they said "high level racing game" I assume a good racing sim

That's what I hope for, but the statement is extremely vague. He might be referencing latest NFS games, for all we know.

or rFactor2, which is actually one of the few REAL racing simulators. in that case cars will be we almost impossible to control using gamepads lol

K^2
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#27

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:54 AM Edited by K^2, 10 November 2012 - 12:01 PM.

QUOTE (faizanali @ Saturday, Nov 10 2012, 07:45)
RAGE has Euphoria which is a part of the Engine, Euphoria is only used in Body Animation, The rest of the things are powered by Bullet Physics™, That also includes the Driving Physics, Bullet Physics™ is a very successful project and is still improving day by day, Please im not going show that im more intelligent then you are but you just have to agree that Driving Physics in GTA IV were the finest in any Open World Video Game at its time in 2008, I really wish they don't make it like Saints Row or Sleeping Dogs, I JUST Dont know they ALL FEEL THE SAME, That is why GTA IV separates itself from other games. If they werent intended into GTA IV THEY WOULD ALL FEEL THE SAME.

Should I point out that I have developed using Bullet? Both vehicle and aircraft simulation? And have written my own simulations?

Vehicle simulation isn't just the physics engine you are using. It's making sure you are properly simulating all of the components. Then getting all of the right parameters, which are ideally model fits from real vehicle data. Merely tuning engine curves, gear ratios, and various parasitic torques of the drive train is a lot of work. And then there are tires, suspension, aerodynamic qualities, and so on.



But yes, if we only include open world games, GTA IV was certainly best at the time. Being best due to lack of any serious competition is a shallow victory, however. There have been plenty of racing games written earlier and on much smaller budgets that surpass GTA IV in terms of driving simulation.



P.S. I actually have quite a bit of experience with IV's engine directly, having done a lot of work on flight simulation under IV. There are a lot of problems with that engine. Mostly minor things you can work around, but the fact that you have to work around these problems means the outcome will depend a lot on how each individual vehicle is parametrized, as well as how well the vehicle code is implemented.

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#28

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Driving Should Be Realistic Like Test Drive Unlimited 2 + Cruise Control
Not Like Sleeping Dogs Or Saints Row

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#29

Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

I think they will do a fine job, but I am not entirely convinced until I have played it. I would like them to improve on the gearboxes though. I have driven a wide variety of cars and no cars with automatic gearboxes will lag at the rev limiter when the acceleration pedal is fully pressed. They will change up way ahead, the cars in IV sounded like a learner with a manual was driving the damn thing. And not a very good learner.

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#30

Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

I'm very happy, i play IV today for the first time in years and kept on losing control of the car they felt like you were driving on ice.




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